Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Captain Shwampy]

I hate to be that person, but "die from existence" is not the correct wording.

OHOHOHO!
very funny but no its "die from existence" now.

Sorry you missed out on the paradigm shift recently.

 

[Schnee117]

Alongside what SMAASH! Puppy said (assuming it's temporary):

(Oh boy this turned out way longer than I initially intended)
I do think that the scenario Puppy outlined above could have decently interesting ramifications, since that would affect some characters like . If the health-swap character is worried about Wario getting full Waft online (which takes 2 mins roughly), suddenly the health swap puts Wario at a pretty damn wonky position of losing a stock like he was facing a mirror match. Now Wario is both heavy and has really bloody good air speed + Bike, so he can survive most situations until the effect ends, but still. Depending on if the health swap counts as normal damage would get a full Limit charge, but if Cloud's hit off stage again he'll be forced to use it for a Limit Climbhazzard recovery.

It would be obviously kinda devastating to some light characters like and . Pichu would have to use T-Jolt more to make approaches wonkier (self-damaging it in the process) while Puff would have to rely more on aerial drift and its aerials until the effect vanishes. A couple other light characters like would also be at risk, but GW has more tools to survive high %.

Health swap would carry the risk of Rage with it. While Rage is nowhere near as strong as it was in 4, Rage still increases knockback on single hits. While this in turn causes some comboes to not work, it also carries a risk that the health swap character would be KOed earlier than normal. Most superheavies like are very dangerous with Rage (although they can wind up in wonky situations too while the effect lasts). Now, some superheavies like , and have more linear approaches, but nevertheless would pack a punch.

Characters that can camp out the health swap would be annoying for the health swap character. in particular can just decide "Ah well, I'mma just shoot lasers, Gyros and Up B / Aerial every time [Health Swap character] gets close until the effect wears off". can do similar stuff with Hydrant, Trampoline, Side B and just because he's Pac Man.

Also, a health swap would have some weird interactions:

• might be at KO range if health swap gets him to 100 %... but that also gives him OWA since it activates on damage thresholds. Also remember that Sephiroth thrives on poking you away from him and blowing you up in a second.
• would be potentially extremely dangerous to the health swap character. Not only since health swap gives him GO, but also since Terry's playstyle heavily revolves around " oops-you-hit-a-button-in-neutral-here's-45%". Terry's also really heavy and has recovery mixups, so he's not the easiest character to KO.
• Likewise, depending on if the health swap counts as normal damage, 's now at KO range but gets Arsene out of it. I don't need to go into further detail here.

Worth noting that it did take Netherrealm 4-12 engineers over 9 months to do so. And while I'm on the side that firmly believes it's possible (even if really wonky) to implement rollback into Ultimate, we'll also have to take casual FFAs with items etc. into account. Sakurai / Bamco would have to hire lets say 10-20 engineers who know their stuff and then let them work on the rollback for 9+ months (if not more) so it doesn't wind up like SFV's botched rollback. And as the GDC talk notes, they'd have to keep some of the engineers around for upkeep.

That's what I assume Sakurai meant when he said there were "side effects" - that is, they simply didn't have time or budget to fix them in time for release.



Bonus points if it can shoot lasers for no real reason.

Yeah it's absolutely possible to put in Smash. A lot of those factors are able to be handled per Keits (who has shipped several rollback netcode titles including KI 2013) as of 2019.

8 player was "solved" with Brawlhalla iirc. So it's just a case of doing it right (not much confidence there) and maintenance.

 

[SharkLord]

I am curious as to what might happen to the meta if there was a fighter with the ability to swap their health with an opponent's, assuming of course it's reasonably balanced out in different ways.
I just imagine a fighter reacting with the same reaction to Hero's Kamikaze/Final Smashes if they got hit with such an ability.

And this is the part where I tie everything back to Touhou

 

[chocolatejr9]

OHOHOHO!
very funny but no its "die from existence" now.

Sorry you missed out on the paradigm shift recently.

I didn't miss anything. After they realised how stupid it sounded, they paradigm shifted it back. You're the one who missed out, CLEARLY!

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Pichu would have to use T-Jolt more to make approaches wonkier (self-damaging it in the process)...

Which would actually be bad for the character who initiated the percentage swap.

OHOHOHO!
very funny but no its "die from existence" now.

Sorry you missed out on the paradigm shift recently.

I didn't miss anything. After they realised how stupid it sounded, they paradigm shifted it back. You're the one who missed out, CLEARLY!

This just oozes "we're pretending to be joking around but we're actually pissed at each other" energy.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

These are probably the reasons for each stage's absence:

• Flat Zone: Redundant with Flat Zone X.
• Flat Zone 2: Redundant with Flat Zone X.
• Icicle Mountain: It was unpopular, and likely would have had to have been re-imagined a bit.
• Jungle Hijinxs: There may have been issues with Stage Morph (though I think there are workarounds).
• Miiverse: Miiverse no longer exists so what's the point?
• Mushroom Kingdom: Probably just wasn't a priority. It wouldn't have been that difficult since Mushroom Kingdom 2 is here.
• Mute City: Large stage that might have had to have been re-imagined to some extent since you can't mask things with fog and stuff anymore.
• Orbital Gate Assault: Since this stage took 4 years to develop, it might have been too large to touch up with everything else they were doing.
• PAC-Maze: Used the 3Ds's capabilities for its main gimmick. I think you could work around this, but they decided not to.
• PictoChat: Likely wasn't a priority since PictoChat 2 is a thing.
• Planet Zebes: Likely just outprioritized. Might have been left out because Brinstar has the same gimmick.
• Poké Floats: Likely out-prioritized due to how complicated it is.
• Pyrosphere: Definitely just wasn't a priority. Ridley being a fighter is probably not an issue since fighter Ridley and stage boss Ridley aren't the same entity.
• Rainbow Road: The original was probably made possible by stealing the assets from Mario Kart 7, which wouldn't be possible here.
• Rumble Falls: Unpopular, so it was probably low on the priority list.
• Sector Z: A bit redundant, as it is essentially just larger Corneria.
• Wooly World: Likely just outprioritized.

For Pictochat and I think it could have been fun to have a Pictochat X that would combine the drawing of Pictochat 1 and 2.

Hey, excluding stages we'd get in the Fighters Passes, what stages would people here like to see added as DLC (such as in an update)? Stages I'd like would be:

Returning stages:
Pac-Maze
Pyrosphere (complete with that Ridley clone as a stage boss)
Rainbow Road
Wooly World
Orbital Gate Assault

New stages:
Bowser's Castle
R.O.B. stage
Tower of Guidance (from Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn)
Dr. Mario stage

Rhythm heaven stage would be my most wanted, but there's so many stages that I want. As much as I like past stages, I really wish we got more new stages. I would also want either Aether paradise from Pokémon sun/moon or Wild area from Pokémon sword/Shield, a Yoshi's crafted world stage, a Ring fit adventure stage, a brain age stage and more Mario spin-off stage (either a Golf stage, a Tennis court or a Mario party board).

 

[chocolatejr9]

Which would actually be bad for the character who initiated the percentage swap.



This just oozes "we're pretending to be joking around but we're actually pissed at each other" energy.

I came to a depressing realisation about my interest in Smash not too long ago. How'd you know?

 

[SKX31]

Which would actually be bad for the character who initiated the percentage swap.

... Crud. You're right. The winning move for Pichu would be to (Health swap character = HSC):

1. Spam T jolt.
2. If the HSC approaches, retreat off stage.
3. If the HSC stays at ledge, stall with Thunder.
4. If the HSC jumps off stage, either go for the cheeky Thunder spike - which could kill the HSC - or evade.
5. Quick Attack to ledge, or close to in case HSC is looking to catch the ledgegrab with a 2 frame move.
6. Assuming the HSC doesn't catch the Pichu and Pichu gets back on stage Quick Attack to the other side of the stage and repeat Step 1.
7. Or go for a combo, which would damage both Pichu and HSC before the timer expires.

And so the HSC would suffer something like 20-30 % just off of Pichu self damage. Next level Smash.

Rhythm heaven stage would be my most wanted, but there's so many stages that I want. As much as I like past stages, I really wish we got more new stages. I would also want either Aether paradise from Pokémon sun/moon or Wild area from Pokémon sword/Shield, a Yoshi's crafted world stage, a Ring fit adventure stage, a brain age stage and more Mario spin-off stage (either a Golf stage, a Tennis court or a Mario party board).

I'm kinda curious (and also although I know Rhythm Heaven talk has come up before here, I've just forgotten about potential stages):

If RH got in, which stages would be the most likely for either the Chorus Kids or Karate Joe?

 

[Peripuff]

Hey, excluding stages we'd get in the Fighters Passes, what stages would people here like to see added as DLC (such as in an update)? Stages I'd like would be:

Returning stages:
Pac-Maze
Pyrosphere (complete with that Ridley clone as a stage boss)
Rainbow Road
Wooly World
Orbital Gate Assault

New stages:
Bowser's Castle
R.O.B. stage
Tower of Guidance (from Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn)
Dr. Mario stage

I’m in desperate need of a Tetris stage

Well not really but it should happen

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm kinda curious (and also although I know Rhythm Heaven talk has come up before here, I've just forgotten about potential stages):

If RH got in, which stages would be the most likely for either the Chorus Kids or Karate Joe?

I feel like it would simply be called Rhythm Heaven, with different hazards/layouts for each song. For example, the planes from Air Rally could be stood on, or the background for Lockstep could give people seizures window sills in The Dazzles could be stood on.

 

[cashregister9]

Hey, excluding stages we'd get in the Fighters Passes, what stages would people here like to see added as DLC (such as in an update)? Stages I'd like would be:

My Most Wanted stages right now is the Galar Wild Area followed by Space Colony ARK.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I'm kinda curious (and also although I know Rhythm Heaven talk has come up before here, I've just forgotten about potential stages):

If RH got in, which stages would be the most likely for either the Chorus Kids or Karate Joe?

There are many possibilities, but I think the best would be a generic stage, either Rhythm heaven itself or the Cafe. Both location appear in pretty much every game. It would then change to various other minigames like Flatzone X. With this concept the possibilities are pretty much endless, but some idea I had are a small moving stages based on Nigh walk, a conveyer belt based on Fillbots, a boxing ring based on Figure fighter, a haunted house based on Sneaky spirits, the seesaw of See-saw, the golf court of Hole in one, the planes from Air rally, the clock of Monkey watch etc. It would be a pretty complex stages, but I feel like it's the best way to really represent the franchise, because there's not really any specific area to based a stage on. It would also represent in some way the Remix part of each game (the stage changes like in the Remix you change through various games.

 

[Louie G.]

I'm kinda curious (and also although I know Rhythm Heaven talk has come up before here, I've just forgotten about potential stages):

If RH got in, which stages would be the most likely for either the Chorus Kids or Karate Joe?

I'll second CapitaineCrash's suggestion of the Cafe, a recurring locale in Rhythm Heaven and a great central hub to shift into various minigames. The notion of having what's essentially a barfight in Smash is a fun thought as well. I think a RH stage risks feeling a little too much like WarioWare, but I'm certain there are many ways to distinguish the two. It's okay for them to share a little DNA though, they're pretty much sister series.

I imagine that we would spend more time in the transforming locations in a RH stage, compared to the rapid-fire nature of WarioWare - perhaps the Sneaky Spirits' house where you can avoid oncoming arrows and the ghosts themselves, or the ever-iconic Ringside where you're prompted to "pose for the fans" or are simply fighting with the interview as a backdrop, lmao. Both done in tandem with the rhythm of the respective minigame - I'm thinking that the cafe hub is where you can do the My Music stuff, but if its a transforming stage the music is automatically paired with the respective event.

A simpler suggestion I saw a long time ago that I like quite a lot is Tap Trial. Pretty easy to envision this unassuming floating platform as a Smash stage, I'd say. And then the giraffe could come in and offer an additional interactable platform / element similar to Duck Hunt or Bulborb. May feel like a bit of a missed opportunity to go with something more straightforward like this, but I think I'd enjoy it anyway.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Hey, excluding stages we'd get in the Fighters Passes, what stages would people here like to see added as DLC (such as in an update)? Stages I'd like would be:

Aside from the glaring omission that is Poke Floats, I'd love to see a stage made out of a puzzle game table like Tetris or PanePon (sorry, Lip fans).

Also Miiverse because I miss the anarchy.

 

[Technomage]

Hey, I don't know if this has been shared on this thread yet, but Delzethin came up with an interesting moveset for Eggman.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

It's making me hyped for him again. :D

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I'll second CapitaineCrash's suggestion of the Cafe, a recurring locale in Rhythm Heaven and a great central hub to shift into various minigames. The notion of having what's essentially a barfight in Smash is a fun thought as well. I think a RH stage risks feeling a little too much like WarioWare, but I'm certain there are many ways to distinguish the two. I imagine that we would spend more time in the transforming locations in a RH stage, compared to the rapid-fire nature of WarioWare.

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Yes, this is why I compare my stage idea to Flatzone instead of Wario ware. I imagine it would move to a different location, but you would stay there for a little time. Im also don't think it really need minigames or challenges, just some small gimmick or different platforms layout would do the job.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

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Congratulations on the release of "Monster Hunter Rise" today !! What kind of weapon should I use? The problem is that there is no one to work with. #Smash Bros SP

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

What kind of weapon should I use?

None of them! You're gonna make all the Pokémon jump to an alternate dimension!

 

[Goombaic]

I'm kinda curious (and also although I know Rhythm Heaven talk has come up before here, I've just forgotten about potential stages):

If RH got in, which stages would be the most likely for either the Chorus Kids or Karate Joe?

Fruit Basket's one I think would be cool and easy to translate to Smash.

Of course, making the road bounce less often and give warnings would be needed to make the stage less infuriating.

 

[DevaAshera]

I just want to bring attention to the fact that Dragonite has an unused model in Super Smash Bros Ultimate which was supposed to be used as a Pokeball summon. Also to note is that this model is entirely different to the one used in the Kalos Pokemon League stage.

View attachment 308607

If the rest of this DLC is using what got left out, I could see Dragonite as a Fighter and I for one would actually be okay with this.

I doubt it..out of all the Pokémon they could choose, I doubt they'd choose Dragonite over one from Sword & Shield..or any of the Pokémon that are a lot more popular..just because it has an unused Pokéball Pokémon model..and, in fact, it wouldn't add up when you consider that Pokéball Pokémon models are less complex than Fighter models are, so they couldn't even use it for one as a base.

I wouldn't really be happy with Dragonite for a few reasons..

• Its not that popular.
• We already have more than enough Pokémon from the original 151
• I just wouldn't be that excited for a Pokémon DLC Fighter..

 

[DarthEnderX]

While we are on the topic of stages...

Am I the only one who doesn't mind Icicle Mountain and Rumble Falls?

Honestly, the vertical scrolling stages would be fine if they didn't do the sudden-speed-up thing.

Which would you pick?

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Oof. Tough choice. But I care about characters more.

 

[Shroob]

I doubt it..out of all the Pokémon they could choose, I doubt they'd choose Dragonite over one from Sword & Shield..or any of the Pokémon that are a lot more popular..just because it has an unused Pokéball Pokémon model..and, in fact, it wouldn't add up when you consider that Pokéball Pokémon models are less complex than Fighter models are, so they couldn't even use it for one as a base.

I wouldn't really be happy with Dragonite for a few reasons..

• Its not that popular.
• We already have more than enough Pokémon from the original 151
• I just wouldn't be that excited for a Pokémon DLC Fighter..

Ah


But Ash got a Dragonite in the anime, so it has anime relevance.


....I don't think we're getting Dragonite, but I'm serious, Ash's team is ****ing STACKED rn.

 

[Will]

but I'm serious, Ash's team is ****ing STACKED rn.

And his stupid ass gonna lose the League and start a new losing streak.

 

[Idon]

Yeah the official Ike figure is...

a bit better than the Amiibo...

 

[SharkLord]

So

After like three months of juggling it with other stuff, I have finally completed Atelier Ryza. I know that interview shot her down, but man. It's gonna be weird moving on to other games.

 

[Knight Dude]

Which one do you miss the most?

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Out of these 4? Rainbow Road cause it's really iconic. Then again PokeFloats is PokeFloats.

What I really miss was Pac-Maze.

 

[Phoenixio]

I miss Poke Float. I don't care about competitive, but it was such a fun casual stage. It had the best Pokemon music, and it was so fun to see people jump around to the apparent void only to see a new Pokemon show up to catch them. It was so nice trying to fight on those uneven surface during this constant hectic migration... None of the other moving stages ever succeeded to that extent, imho.

 

[Knight Dude]

Which would you pick?

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Rollback would be better in the long run.

Though IF Season 3's new additions were raw as hell, I might go with that. Since let's be honest, it's feels somehow more realistic than Nintendo having good online.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Which would you pick?

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I’m pulling this image out next time I hear someone say the majority of people are fine with Ultimate Online.

 

[Shroob]

Like, new characters are great and all, but even the hypest of **** loses its luster in time. I remember when characters like Ridley, Banjo and K.Rool were talked about as pie in the sky dream picks.... and now they're here, and everyone just kinda is like "WOW, this is AMAZING!.........anyway." Could you imagine characters like Minecraft Steve and Sephiroth in Smash, and not only that, but being revealed one after another? And now it's just "Oh, right, they're here now!... That's awesome...!.... So what's next?" Sephiroth only was revealed a little under 4 months ago, and despite how crazy it was to see, we're all more or less used to it now. He's here, it's awesome, but that initial hype has worn off.


Good online will keep the game alive long, LONG past when the content finally comes to an end, because as much as I love Ultimate, it's online is TERRIBLE. New characters are great in the now, and that's why we're all here, but look at how casually we talk about characters that used to be "Never-evers" nowadays. That newness wears off over time, regardless of who it is, something that even Sakurai mentioned in regards to Sephiroth and his worry about "Characters being lost in the crowd".


I 100% pick the online, because given the choice, the 3rd Fighter's Pass is a short-term pick. You're covering up a greater problem by appealing to the hype part of your brain, but not actually dealing with a long-term issue, meanwhile, fixing the online will keep the game alive for a long, long time. A game's longevity means more to me than a quick burst of dopamine that'll wear off in a few month's time.


If Ultimate had actual singleplayer content, like Break the Targets, an actual Adventure Mode, and other stuff like that, then maybe I'd consider a FP3, but given the sad state of its online, no, it 100% has to be the online, no question.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Which would you pick?

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A third fighters pass. I don't even have Nintendo Switch Online so more characters to play as is fine by me.

 

[7NATOR]

I rather have Better Single Player Modes than Better online (I don't think the online is that bad. It's not good, but yeah)

With that being said, I would take Better Online over FP3

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So

After like three months of juggling it with other stuff, I have finally completed Atelier Ryza. I know that interview shot her down, but man. It's gonna be weird moving on to other games.

The sequel came out in February I think, so go for that next

aside from that, a similar enough game that’s also pretty cheap is Atelier Shallie DX. It also doesn’t have a time limit, which many earlier Atelier games do. Sophie has no time limit, but that’s only on Steam atm and most of the other no-time-limit games are a bit expensive atm

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

Which one do you miss the most?

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Real nice of Sakurai to not bring back the stage he supposedly replaced the Epic Yarn stage with.

 

[Ben Holt]

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Walmart Canada be trolling again.

 

[Idon]

Look, I've long accepted that the fates have conspired against me and I'll never get anyone I want.

So as long as you don't cut Ike, I don't care WHAT the sacrifices you have to make to have good online in a fighting game. **** like this should be as standard as 60 fps.

 

[Lamperouge]

Yeah the official Ike figure is...

a bit better than the Amiibo...

View attachment 308756

I already sold my soul to preorder that Lyn figure and then they dump this on me...

 

[Idon]

I already sold my soul to preorder that Lyn figure and then they dump this on me...

View attachment 308767

Real suffering from success hours.

 

[Dinoman96]

Losing out out Jungle Hijinx stings because it was the only major piece of Retro DKC representation that Smash had.

Now all the Retro era of DKC has left at this point are a few spirits and music rips.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Like, new characters are great and all, but even the hypest of **** loses its luster in time. I remember when characters like Ridley, Banjo and K.Rool were talked about as pie in the sky dream picks.... and now they're here, and everyone just kinda is like "WOW, this is AMAZING!.........anyway." Could you imagine characters like Minecraft Steve and Sephiroth in Smash, and not only that, but being revealed one after another? And now it's just "Oh, right, they're here now!... That's awesome...!.... So what's next?" Sephiroth only was revealed a little under 4 months ago, and despite how crazy it was to see, we're all more or less used to it now. He's here, it's awesome, but that initial hype has worn off.


Good online will keep the game alive long, LONG past when the content finally comes to an end, because as much as I love Ultimate, it's online is TERRIBLE. New characters are great in the now, and that's why we're all here, but look at how casually we talk about characters that used to be "Never-evers" nowadays. That newness wears off over time, regardless of who it is, something that even Sakurai mentioned in regards to Sephiroth and his worry about "Characters being lost in the crowd".


I 100% pick the online, because given the choice, the 3rd Fighter's Pass is a short-term pick. You're covering up a greater problem by appealing to the hype part of your brain, but not actually dealing with a long-term issue, meanwhile, fixing the online will keep the game alive for a long, long time. A game's longevity means more to me than a quick burst of dopamine that'll wear off in a few month's time.


If Ultimate had actual singleplayer content, like Break the Targets, an actual Adventure Mode, and other stuff like that, then maybe I'd consider a FP3, but given the sad state of its online, no, it 100% has to be the online, no question.

No offense, but I think the whole part about hype is a bit disingenuous. Who cares is people online aren't screaming 24/7 because of an addition? What's important is that they're here at all and people can play as them.

And though I can agree with the part about more single player content... I dunno, as someone who lives outside of the "major regions" and lacks a Wifi Adapter (they're not even sold here), I can't see rollback being a game changer for me.

The Switch can barely stay 1 meter from a router without disconnecting. Not even the Wii U did that. And I don't think that instability can be fixed with just rollback. It works for other fighting games, but you gotta remember that these other FGs are on platforms with a better online architecture overall.

Like... I don't think rollback would get us back at EVO, for example, because the Switch's connection would most likely still suck even if same-region matches ended up being more stable.

Ultimately, I think rollback is important, but before we talk about fixing Ultimate online, we gotta talk about fixing the Switch online. Otherwise it's like putting a bandaid on someone with a broken arm imo.