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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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SKX31

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Which one do you miss the most?
Floats, despite it having Floats / platforms that straight up would not work in certain situations. It was slow enough to not be too annoying of a stage (as opposed to Pac-Land IMHO), and it allowed moments like this one:


These are probably the reasons for each stage's absence:
  • Icicle Mountain: It was unpopular, and likely would have had to have been re-imagined a bit.
  • Rumble Falls: Unpopular, so it was probably low on the priority list.
Considering how vertical autoscrollers are unpopular like that, I'm kinda surprised that Pac-Land didn't get the ax. Yeah, Pac-Land isn't vertical, but it also forces a lot of jumps all over the place (a main reason it's widely despised).

Buuut, it might be that Pac-Man needed a stage; Sakurai might've decided that the changing the Maze so it didn't rely on the gimmick was too much work on an already crammed schedule and thus had to be axed.
 
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Eldrake

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I am curious as to what might happen to the meta if there was a fighter with the ability to swap their health with an opponent's, assuming of course it's reasonably balanced out in different ways.
I just imagine a fighter reacting with the same reaction to Hero's Kamikaze/Final Smashes if they got hit with such an ability.
 

Cutie Gwen

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I am curious as to what might happen to the meta if there was a fighter with the ability to swap their health with an opponent's, assuming of course it's reasonably balanced out in different ways.
I just imagine a fighter reacting with the same reaction to Hero's Kamikaze/Final Smashes if they got hit with such an ability.
Closest I can think of was Digimon Rumble Arena on the ps1. Renamon had a special that let you swap place with the opponent and it was a fullscreen attack, so you could just hop off a ledge and switch and instantly put them in disadvantage iirc
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Considering how vertical autoscrollers are unpopular like that, I'm kinda surprised that Pac-Land didn't get the ax. Yeah, Pac-Land isn't vertical, but it also forces a lot of jumps all over the place (a main reason it's widely despised).

Buuut, it might be that Pac-Man needed a stage; Sakurai might've decided that the changing the Maze so it didn't rely on the gimmick was too much work on an already crammed schedule and thus had to be axed.
That's probably it. They weren't going to not give PAC-Man a stage, but they couldn't figure out how to make it PAC-Maze, so PAC-Land it was.

I thought the main reason why people hated PAC-Land is because it's just ugly. Only one part of the stage requires much precision in platforming.

I am curious as to what might happen to the meta if there was a fighter with the ability to swap their health with an opponent's, assuming of course it's reasonably balanced out in different ways.
I just imagine a fighter reacting with the same reaction to Hero's Kamikaze/Final Smashes if they got hit with such an ability.
It likely wouldn't be too interesting. It would only do anything if the character was almost dead, and the opponent was relatively fine. When the effect is triggered, the opponent would just run away for a bit until it wears off and they're winning again.

EDIT: The most interesting percent shenanigans mechanic I've seen was with Bird Guy, a custom character for Rivals of Aether. When he had a higher percent than his opponent, he did less damage, and when he had a lower percent, he did more damage. He was also able to lock his percent for a time, and receive all the damage he takes during that time at once when the state ended.

Closest I can think of was Digimon Rumble Arena on the ps1. Renamon had a special that let you swap place with the opponent and it was a fullscreen attack, so you could just hop off a ledge and switch and instantly put them in disadvantage iirc
Reminds me of when I thought Pichu should use Volt Switch instead of Thunder Jolt a few years back.
 
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Ivander

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Closest I can think of was Digimon Rumble Arena on the ps1. Renamon had a special that let you swap place with the opponent and it was a fullscreen attack, so you could just hop off a ledge and switch and instantly put them in disadvantage iirc
Yeah, now that I think about it, didn't Brawl have Manaphy where it forced players to switch characters and then eventually swap back? And if timed right, you could fall down close to the blast zone and be swapped right back just before hitting the blast zone to make your opponent lose a life?
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Poke Floats would've been nice to come back in other ones(or reimagined with the latest Pokemon), but it's definitely a stage that'd take a while to remake too. That, and there's no way it'd cooperate that well with Stage Morph(and we know all the stages in Ultimate were remade from scratch for some silly reason. Like, they should've ported over as much as possible, only not bothering with ones that either felt redundant enough like Sector Z or they felt the gimmick was too important to remove, like Pac-Maze).

That said, I'd take every stage back as possible, and they could just set it up so certain stages aren't selectable while Stage Morph is on. 8-Player Smash has disabled certain stages or redid them too, so it wouldn't be a big deal to have a few gone. I mean, Mii Fighters don't even have their own proper Classic Mode here. Clearly they've had to omit things in specific situations. Not to say it's a good idea to necessarily do that, but yeah.
 

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CannonStreak

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I love Icicle Mountain.

I like Rumble Falls too though it can be a bit more annoying, maybe I’m thinking of one of the Brawl events though.
Maybe one thing annoying about Rumble Falls was that one spike hazard that could KO players easily if it was touched, if you know what I mean.

I really liked Icicle Mountain myself, and it doesn't hurt to climb and fight at the same time, right?
 

ARandomZoomer

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Poke Floats has Porygon in it and TPC still seems to avoid giving the line too much attention since 'Electric Soldier Porygon'. I wonder if they would be completely replaced if the stage returned
 

Rie Sonomura

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Which would you pick?

Fighters Pass Volume 3, cause netcode literally can’t be done in the game’s current state. You’d literally have to remake it
 

Technomage

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Hey, excluding stages we'd get in the Fighters Passes, what stages would people here like to see added as DLC (such as in an update)? Stages I'd like would be:

Returning stages:
Pac-Maze
Pyrosphere (complete with that Ridley clone as a stage boss)
Rainbow Road
Wooly World
Orbital Gate Assault

New stages:
Bowser's Castle
R.O.B. stage
Tower of Guidance (from Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn)
Dr. Mario stage
 

CureParfait

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Which would you pick?

Rollback because I would rather have a smooth online experience than six more characters I potentially not care about.
 

Technomage

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Which would you pick?

If rollback netcode were possible to add via an update, then I would choose that. Lag pisses me off. 🤬
 
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Rie Sonomura

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Hey, excluding stages we'd get in the Fighters Passes, what stages would people here like to see added as DLC (such as in an update)? Stages I'd like would be:

Returning stages:
Pac-Maze
Pyrosphere (complete with that Ridley clone as a stage boss)
Rainbow Road
Wooly World
Orbital Gate Assault

New stages:
Bowser's Castle
R.O.B. stage
Tower of Guidance (from Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn)
Dr. Mario stage
WoL boss stages. Please. I’m begging you Sakurai

And give us the possession/phantom clone effects while you’re at it. Both alignments.
If rollback netcode were possible to add via an update, then I would choose that.
I think if it was that simple they’d have done it by now
 
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Shroob

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Fighters Pass Volume 3, cause netcode literally can’t be done in the game’s current state. You’d literally have to remake it
Incorrect. Netherrealm added Rollback Netcode to several of their games post-launch iirc.

I think Smash 100% could have rollback netcode added, the question is if Nintendo would be willing to pump that much money into it instead of just considering it for the next game.
 

3BitSaurus

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Which would you pick?

Honestly... FP3.

I'd love Rollback, but I think even that can't save Smash Online, because the entire Switch structure needs an overhaul, not just Smash.

Seriously, even games like Splatoon 2, which had better online, still suffer to the point where I legit think Splatoon 1's was better. All because of the way the Switch was planned.
 

Technomage

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Honestly... FP3.

I'd love Rollback, but I think even that can't save Smash Online, because the entire Switch structure needs an overhaul, not just Smash.

Seriously, even games like Splatoon 2, which had better online, still suffer to the point where I legit think Splatoon 1's was better. All because of the way the Switch was planned.
Then that settles it! Forget rollback netcode; I change my vote to a 3rd Fighters Pass!
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Incorrect. Netherrealm added Rollback Netcode to several of their games post-launch iirc.
Not entirely comparable. Super Smash Bros. has a lot more going on than Mortal Kombat does, and even Mortal Kombat had to be largely redone to completely separate graphics from mechanics.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Honestly... FP3.

I'd love Rollback, but I think even that can't save Smash Online, because the entire Switch structure needs an overhaul, not just Smash.

Seriously, even games like Splatoon 2, which had better online, still suffer to the point where I legit think Splatoon 1's was better. All because of the way the Switch was planned.
I EVEN LAG AT THE HECKIN ESHOP. ESHOP.

Maybe, hopefully, the Super Switch won’t have this, especially if they use that new system they’re using with MH Rise
 

GillaMonster

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Hey, excluding stages we'd get in the Fighters Passes, what stages would people here like to see added as DLC (such as in an update)? Stages I'd like would be:

Returning stages:
Pac-Maze
Pyrosphere (complete with that Ridley clone as a stage boss)
Rainbow Road
Wooly World
Orbital Gate Assault

New stages:
Bowser's Castle
R.O.B. stage
Tower of Guidance (from Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn)
Dr. Mario stage
Perhaps a Nintendo console stage, where you fight on multiple Nintendo consoles
 

Shroob

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Not entirely comparable. Super Smash Bros. has a lot more going on than Mortal Kombat does, and even Mortal Kombat had to be largely redone to completely separate graphics from mechanics.
Not entirely comparable, but it is doable.

The question is if Nintendo would do it, which I don't think they would, and instead just shelve the idea until the next installment.


Nintendo's never had good online, so we basically take what we can get with them.
 

Schnee117

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Incorrect. Netherrealm added Rollback Netcode to several of their games post-launch iirc.

I think Smash 100% could have rollback netcode added, the question is if Nintendo would be willing to pump that much money into it instead of just considering it for the next game.
They did it for Mortal Kombat X

One of the guys involved did a whole talk on it at GDC
 

CannonStreak

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Which would you pick?

I voted for a third Fighter's Pass.
 

Brother AJ

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Two things about this - first one being that it's abundantly clear Nintendo doesn't give a **** about how their business practices look LOL. They've been scummy as hell right in front of our eyes more times than I can count. If they feel that Tails is a profitable choice for a playable character I can't imagine them hesitating to sell him again.

The other one is that I honestly don't think it's all that scummy in the first place. Let's put it into perspective - Mii Costumes cost a little bit over one dollar. Tails came out nearly two years ago now. How many people are going to make a scene about losing a dollar two years ago when it's more likely they'll just be celebrating that a character they like made it into Smash? If anything, I think the illusion of playing as your favorite character for two years is worth the price of admission, and would make the actual reveal that much more exciting. And this is splitting hairs a bit, but I feel like it's worth mentioning that Smash 4 even sold costumes of characters who are already present in the game like Samus, Captain Falcon and Fox.

I think selling say, Travis or Geno as a full playable fighter would be pretty "scummy", since I think it's at least safe to say a character's Mii Costume wouldn't appear in the same pass as them, but since Tails was a full pass ago and literally the first wave of nearly ten now I don't think it would be very much of an issue. And as others stated, Tails' costume was probably one of the easiest to bring back since they ported it over from Smash 4.

Honestly, the more I think about it, I think Rex may have been decidedly scummier since he was used as an incentive to buy a full pass worth of content. And we know very well that Rex was planned to be a part of Pyra's moveset initially. It's just one of those things that I feel we've all kinda overthought. I do think most Mii Costumes are disconfirmed, but with Tails' costume just having been so long ago and being a reused asset as is, I think there's a lot of wiggle room.

Of course I don't blame you for thinking the way you do either - that's just what we had all accepted as the situation a while back, and outside of Rex who is a special case to begin with we haven't seen much to contradict it. But I think time has opened the opportunity up again for this particular character.
You make a lot of good points. They probably wouldn't care about any backlash. I think there would be SOME controversy, but it would most likely be pretty minor. Especially compared to the whole "Oh noez anime swords" thing.

Another possibility is they simply brought back the costume because they weren't interested in making Tails a character, but they definately could've changed their minds.

Obviously I would prefer Crash, but Tails would honestly really soften the blow for me. It would be great to get more Sonic content. You know it has to be Chemical Plant Zone that comes with him! And because he would be DLC, he would probably be truer to the source material than even Sonic, which would be... kind of embarrassing. Lol
 
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ZelDan

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While we are on the topic of stages...

Am I the only one who doesn't mind Icicle Mountain and Rumble Falls?
I actually did have fun with icicle Mountain back in the day. It was a moving stage which kept things a bit more frantic but also didn't have any obnoxious obstacles so everyone could still focus on beating eachother up.

Rumble Falls however sucked hard.
 

SKX31

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I am curious as to what might happen to the meta if there was a fighter with the ability to swap their health with an opponent's, assuming of course it's reasonably balanced out in different ways.
I just imagine a fighter reacting with the same reaction to Hero's Kamikaze/Final Smashes if they got hit with such an ability.
Alongside what SMAASH! Puppy SMAASH! Puppy said (assuming it's temporary):

(Oh boy this turned out way longer than I initially intended)
I do think that the scenario Puppy outlined above could have decently interesting ramifications, since that would affect some characters like :ultwario: . If the health-swap character is worried about Wario getting full Waft online (which takes 2 mins roughly), suddenly the health swap puts Wario at a pretty damn wonky position of losing a stock like he was facing a mirror match. Now Wario is both heavy and has really bloody good air speed + Bike, so he can survive most situations until the effect ends, but still. Depending on if the health swap counts as normal damage:ultcloud: would get a full Limit charge, but if Cloud's hit off stage again he'll be forced to use it for a Limit Climbhazzard recovery.

It would be obviously kinda devastating to some light characters like :ultjigglypuff: and :ultpichu: . Pichu would have to use T-Jolt more to make approaches wonkier (self-damaging it in the process) while Puff would have to rely more on aerial drift and its aerials until the effect vanishes. A couple other light characters like :ultgnw: would also be at risk, but GW has more tools to survive high %.

Health swap would carry the risk of Rage with it. While Rage is nowhere near as strong as it was in 4, Rage still increases knockback on single hits. While this in turn causes some comboes to not work, it also carries a risk that the health swap character would be KOed earlier than normal. Most superheavies like :ultbowser: are very dangerous with Rage (although they can wind up in wonky situations too while the effect lasts). Now, some superheavies like :ultganondorf:, :ultkingdedede: and :ultkrool: have more linear approaches, but nevertheless would pack a punch.

Characters that can camp out the health swap would be annoying for the health swap character. :ultrob: in particular can just decide "Ah well, I'mma just shoot lasers, Gyros and Up B / Aerial every time [Health Swap character] gets close until the effect wears off". :ultpacman: can do similar stuff with Hydrant, Trampoline, Side B and just because he's Pac Man.

Also, a health swap would have some weird interactions:

  • :ultsephiroth: might be at KO range if health swap gets him to 100 %... but that also gives him OWA since it activates on damage thresholds. Also remember that Sephiroth thrives on poking you away from him and blowing you up in a second.
  • :ult_terry: would be potentially extremely dangerous to the health swap character. Not only since health swap gives him GO, but also since Terry's playstyle heavily revolves around " oops-you-hit-a-button-in-neutral-here's-45%". Terry's also really heavy and has recovery mixups, so he's not the easiest character to KO.
  • Likewise, depending on if the health swap counts as normal damage, :ultjoker: 's now at KO range but gets Arsene out of it. I don't need to go into further detail here.

Incorrect. Netherrealm added Rollback Netcode to several of their games post-launch iirc.

I think Smash 100% could have rollback netcode added, the question is if Nintendo would be willing to pump that much money into it instead of just considering it for the next game.
They did it for Mortal Kombat X

One of the guys involved did a whole talk on it at GDC
Worth noting that it did take Netherrealm 4-12 engineers over 9 months to do so. And while I'm on the side that firmly believes it's possible (even if really wonky) to implement rollback into Ultimate, we'll also have to take casual FFAs with items etc. into account. Sakurai / Bamco would have to hire lets say 10-20 engineers who know their stuff and then let them work on the rollback for 9+ months (if not more) so it doesn't wind up like SFV's botched rollback. And as the GDC talk notes, they'd have to keep some of the engineers around for upkeep.

That's what I assume Sakurai meant when he said there were "side effects" - that is, they simply didn't have time or budget to fix them in time for release.

Only if we get a playable Virtual Boy.

As in, literally a Virtual Boy. Like that one commercial where it's walking and whatnot.
Bonus points if it can shoot lasers for no real reason.
 
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