DDD Social: we livin' in smash 4

[KuroganeHammer]

None of those kill though.

Also screw frame advance, I need a nap. =D

 

[Player-3]

None of those kill though.

Also screw frame advance, I need a nap. =D

backair kills

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Well, not until 140%, but okay.

And if it's half your metagame, it'll be stale, but okay.

Has anyone told you that when Player-1 and Player-3 post in the same thread, it's confusing as hell?

 

[Supreme Dirt]

The rest of our moveset + spacing.

 

[Player-1]

None of those kill though.

Also screw frame advance, I need a nap. =D

chaingrab to edge of stage, then bair near wall blastzone kills even when stale.

 

[Player-3]

Well, not until 140%, but okay.

And if it's half your metagame, it'll be stale, but okay.

Has anyone told you that when Player-1 and Player-3 post in the same thread, it's confusing as hell?

one of us is a pink rainbow frog and the other is a blue stormtrooper

i dont see how it can be confusing

 

[Player-1]

one of us is a pink rainbow frog and the other is a blue stormtrooper

i dont see how it can be confusing

yeah what he said.

 

[Doc King]

chaingrabs and back airs.


WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED?!?!?!?!?!?!!!?!?!??!?!

Metagame improvement.

We won't advance unless if we can advance our metagame. We will need much more tools to expand and move up with the rest.

I mean, improving in player style is great, but we should improve our character too. Like dodging Yoshi's eggs is basically common sense of shielding and flying in the air. Tech skill can improve our reaction to moves and will makes us do much more.

 

[Player-1]

just back air yoshi's eggs, it'll all work out.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

one of us is a pink rainbow frog and the other is a blue stormtrooper

i dont see how it can be confusing

haha.

tencharacters

 

[Coney]

Metagame improvement.

We won't advance unless if we can advance our metagame. We will need much more tools to expand and move up with the rest.

I mean, improving in player style is great, but we should improve our character too. Like dodging Yoshi's eggs is basically common sense of shielding and flying in the air. Tech skill can improve our reaction to moves and will makes us do much more.

Metagame doesn't matter if you don't have the ability to even get to the highest level of play anyway. You can't be so wrapped up in optimal, situational choices if you can't make it past 13th at locals anyway. Not directed at you specifically, but DDDs in general need to stop worrying about how this tech or that tech will rocket them up a few places, and start worrying about their fundamentals.

In other words, I don't think most DDD players are losing because they couldn't land a guaranteed follow-up kill on Lucario at 120%. They're losing because they're getting outplayed. I never practiced the dthrow>usmash and I've still beaten Lucarios because I know how to play the matchup in a general sense. Brawl isn't as complicated as people think.

 

[Doc King]

I can see what Coney is saying, learning the matchup is more important than certain AT's. AT's I think are important, but they aren't everything towards being successful in general.

 

[Kite0692]

Can someone tell me how USA´s ranking system works? or just a program to do one? lol sorry for ma bad english

 

[Zekeishere]

That's actually not what coney is saying, Doc King. =/

Either way, tournament tomorrow. Pretty hyped!

 

[Coney]

Definitely not what I was saying.

Stop looking at DDD vs. A or B or C. Start looking at DDD. Get better with him in the broad sense and prepare for matchups when you know you should. Just be a better player, not a better DDD.

I wonder if his CG has something to do with this weird mentality DDDs have, since it's a relatively easy, powerful technique. Just be a better player, man.

 

[da K.I.D.]

They see that the CG is good easy and simple, so they think, 'I have to do other things besides just the CG in order to be really good.' instead of just thinking 'I will win more if I just get really really good at setting up my easy to execute, incredibly damaging option, and not letting my opponent catch up to me in damage in between the times that I get it'

 

[Doc King]

They see that the CG is good easy and simple, so they think, 'I have to do other things besides just the CG in order to be really good.' instead of just thinking 'I will win more if I just get really really good at setting up my easy to execute, incredibly damaging option, and not letting my opponent catch up to me in damage in between the times that I get it'

This could actually be applied to slope infinites because they're easy to do on , , and , but you have to be good at setting them up (Halberd and Frigate are the best ones).

This could also be applied to the SV platform chaingrab, PS2 ice and free regicide stage (Don't know the name ) on the middleweights, heavyweights, and .

Edit: This can be applied to rco lag combos.

 

[Xubble]

Slope infinites are so situational though.

The point is to improve your overall-DDD. Those character-specific ATs aren't going to help you when you're up against someone playing ICs.

Reaction time. Powershielding. Choosing the right options. Learning to DI and SDI correctly. All of these things are useful in EVERY MU. They should be a part of your overall technique. They should be so ingrained into your head that in-match, you don't have to consciously think about them (PSing and DI at least).

ATs do not make you a better player. Practice and experience improve your technical skill, your reactions, and how clearly you think in any situation. While that can lead to utilizing specific ATs, that's not the goal. Being better prepared for anything thrown at you. That's the goal. Study, practice, play, and learn. That's the only way.

 

[Coney]

Doc, this is what I mean. You're so caught up in techs for characters we beat anyway on abnormal stages.

Kid got it right.

 

[Doc King]

There's nothing wrong with improving our good matchups if they're good characters.

I've been trying to find some good AT's on . I also agree that DIing and SDIing will help because our characters combos aren't really DI or SDIable.

 

[Xubble]

Like, 2 months ago, I was so dependent on bair for kills and CG for damage that anyone who knew this would stay away and projectile spam.

Now I can powershield tons of stuff, CG those that I can and tech chase the ones that I can't, kill with any of D3's kill moves (utilt, bair, fair, jet hammer on landing (lulz), etc.), read my opponents, and tons more. I didn't focus on little ATs. In fact, in 2 months, I hardly PLAYED DEDEDE. I was going through different characters like Bowser and ICs. But practicing with those characters made me learn things that carried over when I went back to Dedede. Hell, I'm making people rage quit when I play them. I beat two of my buddies (who play at a decent level) in a 2 vs 1.

How many ATs did I learn (for Dedede)? Zero.

How much skill did I develop when I mastered the basics? A lot. But I'm not gonna be done until i powershield every laser, every pikmin, every arrow, bomb, boomerang, banana, armor piece, and whatever thrown at me. Until I stop using the wrong moves. Until I'm a level 36 Blastoise. That's the dream. You gotta want it!

 

[Doc King]

I'm actually kind of surprised how ppl couldn't learn AT's when playing . I really wanna know why everybody hates so much. I mean, I was able to find many AT's for .

This is kind of confusing me because you guys are saying many different things and they don't seem to really make sense to me.

I think one problem is that if you just improve as a player, then it really doesn't have to do with your character, which makes it so you just switch to someone else. I mean imo, I really think that 's metagame is actually really lacking and I think there's much more potential that ppl don't look up to because they just think he's just a chaingrabber and that's it. Ignoring and putting me down is not gonna help you guys. If you're just gonna do the same thing, then it's just gonna get old and you're gonna have to find new stuff to use. If you really wanna improve, you should find much more stuff because you're just gonna get beat down by new stuff. Find some out of shield options and master stuff. Even it's like a little thing, it can still help. Although, we should find things that will be helpful and we should adapt more.

For one thing, we can like use 's projectiles to help us with tech chasing and camping.

 

[4GOD (JJV)]

We gotta get our fundamentals down though!

Buffered standing pivot grab dthrow infinite
Dash-dance pivot grab infinite
Grab-release squirtle chain grab
Wario air-relase pivot grab infinite
Dthrow to buffered RAR bair on Charizard

This is what the game is all about. Oh...and don't forget the all-too famous dthrow to buffered usmash. Ha! How did I almost forget!

 

[allshort17]

Here, since you don't Doc understand it I'll try to paraphrase the main point everyone is trying to tell you.

I even though creating and learning new AT's can make you somewhat better and can inprove the metagame as you say, what Dedede's need really need to do is master the general parts of the game (decision making, control over characters, ect) in order to truly advance as a player.

Does this make sense Doc? Also, just a note please don't think we are all trying to put you down. But, we just want you to think of the game from a different view in order for you to get better. We just may say it harshly sometimes, but most of what we say is actually to benefit you.

And @ K.I.D: You hit my exact mindset perfectly with that comment.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

We gotta get our fundamentals down though!

Buffered standing pivot grab dthrow infinite
Dash-dance pivot grab infinite
Grab-release squirtle chain grab
Wario air-relase pivot grab infinite
Dthrow to buffered RAR bair on Charizard

This is what the game is all about. Oh...and don't forget the all-too famous dthrow to buffered usmash. Ha! How did I almost forget!

lol this is mean

 

[4GOD (JJV)]

Player-1 would be proud. He's turning me into a monster. I have to stop now. Accept my apologies world, world of competitive party gamers...

 

[4GOD (JJV)]

Doc King is cool

Also, Doc King knows I'm messing. He knows I value his input.
D3 boards w/out Doc = ._.
D3 boards w/ Doc =

Just having some fun at his expense

 

[Player-1]

4god is one of the best trolls in the world.

 

[4GOD (JJV)]

I can die now

 

[DewDaDash]

ugh the last 3 pages were worthless, not even sure why I log into this board.

edit: nvm, dont really have the desire to travel

 

[Xubble]

Dedede benefits more from the basics than advanced techniques (outside of chain grab). This is something you need to understand, Doc. Your findings are interesting AT BEST, but they're not really useful due to how very situational they are (I've yet to find somebody who even USES Pokémon Trainer). I'd call your findings "advanced gimmicks" before I'd call them "advanced techniques."

I need to make a graph depicting every character's benefits in regards to Basics vs. AT. Characters like Diddy and ICs would be very high on the AT side for example, while characters like Marth and Wario would get more out of basics than anything else.

And when I say basics, I mean (power)shielding, DI, spacing, choosing the right option, and anything that can be applied to the entire cast, not one individual character.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Zelda has two advanced techniques. One puts her in a horrible position, the other requires pinpoint precision or else she'll SD.

I guess she could be chalked up to benefiting from the basics too.

/experience

 

[Doc King]

I actually get what you guys mean now. I still like to find AT's and stuff. I mean in a lot of fighting games, not all AT's are gonna help a lot or even to a usual extent.

Is there someway where I can find hitboxes and framedata?

 

[Xubble]

I know Aero has a frame data thread. And you could check SSBWiki's page on D3 for a video with hitboxes. I'm too lazy to find the links at the moment.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

if you can't make it past 13th at locals anyway

I swear, I keep nearly breaking 9th with a set, but then some string of bull**** happens and I lose the set.

 

[Steam]

In other words, I don't think most DDD players are losing because they couldn't land a guaranteed follow-up kill on Lucario at 120%. They're losing because they're getting outplayed. I never practiced the dthrow>usmash and I've still beaten Lucarios because I know how to play the matchup in a general sense. Brawl isn't as complicated as people think.

coney totally bodied me. it made me sad.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I actually get what you guys mean now. I still like to find AT's and stuff. I mean in a lot of fighting games, not all AT's are gonna help a lot or even to a usual extent.

Is there someway where I can find hitboxes and framedata?

You should try playing ddd with out grabbing.

This will force you to learn and understand the spacing and situations for every move you have and will force you to actually outplay people. That's how people figured out that up air and fair frame traps peoples airdodges into a bair.

Once you've learned to properly control space and move your character effectively, than everything will get easier when you add in your easily excecutable high damage move (grab)

Focusing all of your time and effort on taking a move that's already easy and does a ton of damage and trying to make it better doesn't make you better at implementing any other of the characters other moves or strategies that will be more instrumental towards beating a character like metaknight or fox for example. Two characters than none of your grab gimmicks work on.

That's why coney typically doesn't get butt reamed by mks even tho he still loses, but he does better than he should considering the matchup.

 

[Doc King]

You should try playing ddd with out grabbing.

This will force you to learn and understand the spacing and situations for every move you have and will force you to actually outplay people. That's how people figured out that up air and fair frame traps peoples airdodges into a bair.

Once you've learned to properly control space and move your character effectively, than everything will get easier when you add in your easily excecutable high damage move (grab)

Focusing all of your time and effort on taking a move that's already easy and does a ton of damage and trying to make it better doesn't make you better at implementing any other of the characters other moves or strategies that will be more instrumental towards beating a character like metaknight or fox for example. Two characters than none of your grab gimmicks work on.

That's why coney typically doesn't get butt reamed by mks even tho he still loses, but he does better than he should considering the matchup.

This stuff actually sounds like a good idea.

Maybe we should find out of shield stuff, traps, strategies, and options more than AT's that just involve mostly grabbing.

This can lead to actually being able to surpass his bad matchups and his camping weakness.

Man, it seems like coney inspires completely.

 

[Coney]

Yeah, but I shouldn't. Giving up on Brawl. Don't really have fun with it anymore. Everyone just runs away from me, and none of the characters I enjoy can feasibly do anything to MK. I have a very aerial playstyle and the only REALLY good aerial character in the game is MK and...well, maybe Marth. But I suck with Marth. And it's not that I don't want to pick up MK for pride reasons, I just...don't have fun with MK. And I don't want to compete in a game if I'm not having fun.

I've said it before and was all dramatic about it but, this time I mean it. ****'s just too stressful for me anymore.

 

[AtotheZ]

Stress
A Children's Party Game UnderConeyDog Story

Coming to theaters Summer 2012