Counterpicking Made Peachy

[Dark.Pch]

falco can **** you on that stage with camping. And Can F-B on one side to the other for quick get aways

 

[Snakeee]

I said Sheik/Zelda...Zelda only for kills really.

And, pleaseee tell me those ppl also questioned Stadium 1 being banned. If they questioned Japes and not Stadium....I don't even know what to say. X_X

Japes should be banned mostly because of how frequent the clap trap is now btw.

 

[deepseadiva]

And, pleaseee tell me those ppl also questioned Stadium 1 being banned. If they questioned Japes and not Stadium....I don't even know what to say. X_X

Japes should be banned mostly because of how frequent the clap trap is now btw.

Ha, PS1 is a starter. Here at least.

The klaptrap on JJ is on an exact 10 second schedule.

Your region has some pretty lame stage choices Snakeee...

 

[Dark.Pch]

I said Sheik/Zelda...Zelda only for kills really.

Camping with sheik there is even worst. And Its easy to DI out of Zeldas Fsmash. And as for her upsmash, ceiling is too high for Peach to even fear that move anymore. You fight a good Peach on that stage, you are in for a rude awakening.

As for falco and japes, It does not matter about the height of the platforms. it will be hard to get to him. And you will have to be in the air at one point of another. And he can go left and right easy with His F-B.

 

[Praxis]

I said Sheik/Zelda...Zelda only for kills really.

And, pleaseee tell me those ppl also questioned Stadium 1 being banned. If they questioned Japes and not Stadium....I don't even know what to say. X_X

Japes should be banned mostly because of how frequent the clap trap is now btw.

Yeah, Pokemon Stadium 1 and Jungle Japes are always legal on the west coast, with Luigi's Mansion and Green Greens as maybes depending on host and region. (SoCal, for example, has Luigi's legal and Greens banned. WA has Luigi's banned and Greens legal)

Japes should be banned mostly because of how frequent the clap trap is now btw.

What? The Klaptrap is on a ten second timer. If you watch the timer in the top right, it will be under the right hand platform at x:x7, and the left platform at x:x3. I'm always keeping track of the Klaptrap.

I said Sheik/Zelda...Zelda only for kills really.

Zelda will have a harder time killing than usual due to the tall ceiling. As for Sheik, Peach has a 60:40 advantage on Sheik minimum.

 

[Snakeee]

Since you can keep track of when it will happen, isn't that more of a reason for it to be banned? You can set your opponent up for a very simple kill because of that. And Dark I didn't mean that sheik or zelda was amazing on that stage, just that I'd probably be better off with them than ZSS, and also Sheik can easily charge needles there

 

[deepseadiva]

Since you can keep track of when it will happen, isn't that more of a reason for it to be banned?

I've been arguing for this stage's legality since before the SBR ruleset came out.

While the hazard is predictable, it still is hard to actually take advantage of, i.e a spike normally. Which even then is considered knocking the opponent off the stage. Sound familiar? It's a basic Brawl concept akin to "you must recover."

You can't ban a stage because it rewards players good at playing Smash itself.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Racking up needles is just about all you have there. You might get a fresh set of needles there more than on other stages. But it still does not mean much. They don't do well on that stage. But you decide what character for you does better then and prey to the lord himself you come out alive.

 

[Praxis]

Since you can keep track of when it will happen, isn't that more of a reason for it to be banned? You can set your opponent up for a very simple kill because of that. And Dark I didn't mean that sheik or zelda was amazing on that stage, just that I'd probably be better off with them than ZSS, and also Sheik can easily charge needles there

No, the predictability is what makes it legal- were it random, it would be arguable for a ban.
Since the Klaptrap is actually below the stage, you actually have to spike the opponent or cause them to DI horribly in order to launch them into it. In which case, props to you- it's hardly consistent or reliable.

If your argument is that someone can with perfect timing spike someone into the Klaptrap, then I submit to you that Frigate Orpheon should be banned, since one can launch their opponent with perfect timing right into the right area of the stage so that when it flips they are deposited underneath for low % gimps.

Besides, Peach doesn't have a spike xD

 

[Dark.Pch]

Besides, Peach doesn't have a spike xD

Oh yes she does and I am making a video of it now and show you how you get the spike out.it should be up within 30 mins of less.

 

[deepseadiva]

Oh yes she does and I am making a video of it now and show you how you get the spike out.it should be up within 30 mins of less.

LIES

Terrible, horrible lies. Peach would be so broken with a spike. The game couldn't justify it.

 

[Morrigan]

errrr, Dtilt has a spike, a disgustingly horrible spike

xD

 

[Dark.Pch]

LIES

Terrible, horrible lies. Peach would be so broken with a spike. The game couldn't justify it.

I kid you not:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfafXVa9Xmk&fmt=18

 

[Iwan]

While Japes was banned at C3, several people I talked to that I knew were attending questioned it. I know Japes is unquestionably legal throughout the West coast, and I can't even fathom why you would ban it. There are no random elements, no walls, the stage doesn't move, and no infinites can occur.

And this is what was frustrating about C3. I can understand Greens being banned, because some people make the argument that it's just a ******** stage in general (And I would disagree). But even with Greens, my second best CP stage not legal, they decided to ban Japes.

My best CP stage.

I'm not fully aware of whether the stage is regularly banned here on the east coast, but I'll find out soon enough. And if it is, I'm b****ing out as many tournament hosts as possible until it's legal.

Everywhere.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

lol @Iwan. is there logical reason greensgreens is banned?

 

[Praxis]

Oh yes she does and I am making a video of it now and show you how you get the spike out.it should be up within 30 mins of less.

I know about the dtilt. I meant, Peach doesn't have a consistently usable, practical spike xD
You're not going to be dtilt spiking people into a klaptrap.

 

[Praxis]

lol @Iwan. is there logical reason greensgreens is banned?

You can argue about Dedede's infinite and low % kills from the bombs. It's a ******** argument and I disagree with it, but it exists.

There is no valid argument for banning Japes at all, and while I disagree strongly with anyone who bans Greens, there's enough to at least have a decent argument about it.

 

[Snakeee]

Even Bum agreed that Japes should be banned, and it's been his favorite stage for years.
Green Greens shouldn't even be in this conversation. It was a bad enough stage in Melee (and was banned) >_>

And I've played on Japes in Brawl tons of times and it's very rare if the match wasn't decided by the Klap Trap or someone being carried off the stage. Even top players get gayed by that stage.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Players who get killed by klaptrap are just as fault as players who suicide. It appears on a 10 second interval. Just count to 10 and it will be there again. It's not hard, and its not random or unavoidable. At the very worst you have to take a hit from the opponent by recovering from above when you may be weak doing so. I've yet to be gayed there since I learned the interval timing on the klaptrap.

 

[Dark.Pch]

All the times I have played on that stage, The Klap trap only got me once.

 

[deepseadiva]

Updated for Fox discussion.

I'd imagine Luigi's would be good here. High ceiling works against usmash, close quarters hampers dair approach, and pillars stop lasers. Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay.

I love Luigi's.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

JJs is perfect counter for Fox

 

[Praxis]

JJ? Hadn't thought of it really, but you're right! Fox loses everything that makes it a good Falco stage. It takes away his vertical killing ability too, and he can't recover well out of the water!

Pokemon stadium 1 might be a good CP too. Tall ceiling...does the weird ledge mechanics affect his recovery at all?

 

[Eddie G]

Oh yeah, Japes is perfect against Fox, I'm sure of it. He has mobility around the stage, but horrible recovery from the water and reduced killing potential because of the ceiling. It is also easy to gimp him there as well. Ground float Nairs will **** his illusion recovery attempts, and his firefox is already extreme gimp bait. It's a perfect counterpick, he can't even camp against you if you stay aggressive.

 

[Airgemini]

Tall ceiling...does the weird ledge mechanics affect his recovery at all?

Depends on how he's recovering. If he Side Bs and he just barely goes under the edge he'll more than likely die. His Up B is extremelly predictable, no matter which way he's recovering with Up B Peach can hurt him.

I think we should have more Fox's in this so we get more accurate results.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Air pretty much summed up how recovery works on ps1. i've never really had a problem recovering there though.

 

[yellowroy]

can i use this for the ike boards?

 

[Airgemini]

You did it anyways so it doesnt matter. I hope this thread doesnt spread like the movie tier lists threads did lol.

 

[yellowroy]

lol yeah sorry.

 

[M@v]

Ban either FD or corneria vs fox. FD is very good for him. he can stay airborne, making his aerial approaches easier, and doesnt need to worry about killing to the sides because of Upsmash.

Corneria Lets fox kill wtfhaxs early off the top(like60-80% we are talking), and he has a shine infinite on everyone on the back part of great fox's tail.

Luigi's mansion is bad for us
Lylat Cruise is somewhat bad for us.(even with curved firefox, its still easy to get caught under the stage.)
I personally hate rainbow cruise, but thats just me.

 

[deepseadiva]

I need a counterpick against GW.

Green Greens I'm terrified of choosing... he kills upward very easily...

Any quick ideas?

 

[Airgemini]

It's kind of tough.

Picking a stage with a large blast zone (JJ) are good because you have a higher chance of survival. However it'll be very hard to KO him since GaW players can completely canel their momentum with their Down B. I think it was recently discovered.

Picking a stage with a small blastzone (think Green Greens) is nice because you can KO him easier, however GaW has so many powerful KO moves that you'd probably be KOed first.

 

[Villi]

Guh, Yoshi's Island is a decent choice. You can keep yourself protected from lots of aerial approaches from under the center platform. Just stay there. Try to keep him contained to the edges with turnips and such.

 

[deepseadiva]

Jungle Japes...?

It's one of his worst stages, has a high ceiling, and that platform serves the same purpose as Yoshi's no?

Just camping the middle would sound good on paper. Hrm, but the high ceiling would limit Peach's kills, not to mention the bucket braking thing...

 

[Praxis]

I need a counterpick against GW.

Green Greens I'm terrified of choosing... he kills upward very easily...

Any quick ideas?

Greens. Yes, he kills upwards easily. You can learn to avoid the usmash though, and his aerials can't kill you. Camp underneath until he comes down with you, then stay high. He can't kill you.

You'll be able to kill him really fast with all of your aerials except dair.
Believe me, you want Greens.

It's one of his worst stages, has a high ceiling, and that platform serves the same purpose as Yoshi's no?

How is Japes one of his worst stages?

If anything he'll be living forever with bucket braking now :/

Peach never lands usmash on G&W so don't worry about vertical kills. But he can camp the middle well and your fair degrades...

 

[deepseadiva]

Jungle Japes works for everything.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Sonic...hmm...

Avoid Corneria as he has a good U throw and Up Smash

My inital thoughts would be that Luigi's Mansion would be a good stage for Peach vs Sonic. When the house is still intact, Sonic has little room to approach in the air whereas Peach can use her outprioritizing aerials...plus, it's a good stage anyway

Avoid Lylat Cruise? Although I'm not sure if that's a bad Sonic stage as well...

 

[Kinzer]

If you don't get any benefit out of Lylat Cruise, Sonic can do fine. If you hate Lylat Cruise, Sonic will be a living nightmare you can't touch due to the sheer speed of the hedgehog. If your character gets royally screwed by the stage, Sonic is better than off than you due to his mediocre weight and phenominal recovery.

Take him to BF why don't you? Sonic already does great in all the neutrals anyway, you'll have to reap the benefits BF offers better than Sonic, what with the platform games and whatnot.

As for counterpick stages, just go with JJ/Pictochat/your most comfortable CP if Pictochat is banned in your area and the Sonic player bans JJ.

 

[DrakeRowan]

Brinstar MAY be a good counter pick. You'll be in the air alot plus the lava threat hinders his spin dashes.
Sonic can't really star kill that well (sides uair) so a stage with a low ceiling may be more of a threat to him then it is to you.

 

[Kinzer]

It can go either way, sure the lava may help you/r opponent, but Sonic is fast enough to work around anything, and Tenki (who is a very good Sonic player, claims to suck) has some nasty tricks on Brinstar.

Fighting Peach already limits the use of Spin attacks, now we just won't be using them at all if you go here.

Low ceilings help us as much as they do you.

The destroyable terrain can refreshen Sonic's Bair, so now we have it open as a damage-dealer/spacing tool/& K.O. move.

I'm thinking it can go either way, or if you're really comfortable with Brinstar, then yeah go for it.

It would be an awkward change of pace, so yeah.

Again, nothing like going to your most comfortable CP for this one.