Countering (Projectile) Spam - Ultimate

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You mean....side B, side B, side B, side B? :rolleyes:

After 300hrs into the game, I've learnt that I can actually tech this attack. I have sort of mix feelings, being happy to know that I won't get bullied by that thing anymore but also feeling stupid to have never thought about teching it :facepalm:
This has been possible since SSB4. I think as early as SSBB, but it's been long since I've played SSBB.

As for those complaining about Samus/Dark Samus, good. They need to be at least high tier. Samus especially has never been high tier. F-air needs a tad more buffing. I'm glad it shuts down jumpers. And if you don't like Samus being evasive, then help us Samus mains by requesting better CQC, starting with a jab 1 connecting into jab 2 as early as 0%. Good-bye, Sakurai angle. Oh, and faster tilts.
 

Coolboy

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these are my current frustration >~> :ultincineroar: :ultsonic: :ultsamus::ultdarksamus:

i swear if i play as Zelda i rarely get to fight a Spamus..they spam..i reflect with neutral B..they die after 3 or 4 times xD i was a bit late with realizing this move could reflect.....
i found out by accident when i reflected a neutral B attack from Samus..i feel stupid now! D:
 

Sans3546

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the most annoying character to run into during quick play? literally any "heavy" character such as bowser, ganondorf, and king dedede.

alright, i can say this right now. a 1v1 against a heavy fighter isn't a terrible thing. usually, i can reliably bust a win out because their attacks are so slow, they are so vulnerable to combos, and nobody is safe from back throw. it only is annoying when the game says "f*** your preferred rules" to me, puts me in a free for all, and there are two or more of them because i can't focus on multiple at the same time. one usually ends up killing me in three hits while i'm trying to kill the other, and then they kill that other heavy i was dealing damage to.
 
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PSIPher

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I wouldn't say that I found any characters annoying as such. But, in the urinal of Smash Online, you do find that people tend to choose their character and play them all in the same way.

Samus / Dark Samus is the best example I can think of. As soon as you see that she is going to be your opponent, you just know that they are going to dash to the ledge immediately and start opening fire. When you manage to get up close, if they fend you off (as Samus has good range with her aerials) you're back at square one again. Or, alternately, if you get some hits in, they'll just dash to the other ledge and start firing again. And it makes for a highly tedious match. Easily winnable, but just drawn out and dull.

And every Samus player I encounter plays it that way. Every time. They're all indistinguishable from one another. But I don't blame them for it. They're making the the best of the tools that the game has given them and playing it that way is the shortest route to stringing up victories. Until they meet a player with more experience, that is...

In fact, quite of lot of characters fall into that bracket - Piranha Plant, Duck Hunt Duo, Robin, MewToo, Wii Fit Trainer, some Link & King K Rool players also have a similar play-style, tho' you notice that more in group matches, as opposed to one vs one.

I think Smash Online group matches tend to favour projectile characters. Those games get terribly laggy making projectiles more difficult to avoid as you just can't get your response options out quick enough. And that's frustrating. But this a problem with the game, not your opponent. I suppose it does teach you to 'read' rather than 'react'.

Interesting to see comments on Ness. I'd have said the opposite, myself...

I never used to play Ness before Smash Ultimate came out. In my view, he's a great choice for online play, especially if you find 'projectile spam' annoying. He has great tools to deal with it. You've got the home-run bat to knock the projectiles right back at them (my preferred choice - you can kill a ledge-camping Samus very easily doing this) or the PSI magnet can provide a nice health top-up should you require it. And, of course, you have your own PK fire to give them a taste of their own medicine should the mood take you.

It's fun also to bait projectiles out of your opponent. If you see a King K Rool, a Belmont or a Link recovering back to the stage, you can take a break from edge-guarding and, instead, just position yourself about halfway across the platform. You just know that 99% of the time, they will immediately throw their crown, crucifix or boomerang at you. So you can start swinging immediately.

No, I see Ness as a bit of an anti-spamming warrior. :o)
 

1FC0

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By definition, the most annoying characters to face will always be zoners. Otherwise, they're not very good at their job.
False. You are confusing your opinion with the definition of zoning. The definition of zoning does not involve being annoying.

Zoning means pressuring the opponent in order to keep him at a distance. This pressure limits the zoner's opponent's options and that is the point of zoning.
 
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Diddy Kong

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I still say :ultinkling:. But :ultolimar: is just as annoying, maybe even worse. Why the **** did they decide to give this dude a kill throw? It's stronger than Mewtwo's even, which is just weird.
 

TheDuke54

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Taunt party people. That they still exist in this game bothers me so much. It's not enough that everything online has to suck, now the people have to suck even more? I just went on to one match where everyone at the start decided to gang bang me only and never took shots at the others. I never even provoked them in any way. They sure liked tea bagging a lot.

Didn't help that it was a 7 minute battle and they proceeded to just tea bag for the remainder. I wasn't too salty about that, but I wasn't waiting 6 minutes, screw that. Yeah my hour penalty is on me, but why does Nintendo promote this douchebaggery?
 

Jaro235

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I haven’t been playing online that long, but I am noticing as I am watching my replays that I have developed some really bad habits online that would otherwise never use in local multiplayer. For example, I consider myself decent with Yoshi, but whenever I play online, I often use his Down B way too much and it usually gets me in trouble or KO’ed. I never overuse that move when I play with my friends or in tourney matches but the moment I play online, I use that move like crazy. With that, I want to ask two questions.

1. Do you develop bad habits online with your characters that you normally would never do when playing with friends? What are they?

2. What is the best way to get rid of these bad habits? I really don’t like the way I am using Yoshi and I know I am better with him than that, but I feel tempted to use that move every time. How can I get out of that habit so I can play better online?

Thank you guys very much!
 
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Sean²

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My bad habits mostly include doing dumb stuff that I would never do in person, like going for crazy spikes or suicide gimps that throw matches for me. Challenging attacks that will kill me. Mostly because I try to have fun when I play online.

The way to fix them, is to just stop it. Play your matches like you play offline. Next time you’re tempted to put the drop on them with that move, pick the smarter option instead. If something doesn’t work on the same person twice, stop going for it.
 

Coolboy

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for me it's that my character faces the wrong way at times..for some reason it still keep happening xD

but my biggest bad habit is that i am to aggressive at times..especially when i am annoyed/salty no wonder i get grabbed more easily then others in certain matches >~> i can play defensely and just wait to react on my opponent just fine..but if i am out of it or idc at all then i just do what my mind tells me to ''beat the **** out of your opponent right now!''
 

Luigifan18

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My main bad habit is being overly reliant on Smash attacks (even as I repeatedly whiff or get smacked out of them).
 
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1. Do you develop bad habits online with your characters that you normally would never do when playing with friends? What are they?
I tend to get a bit nervous when playing against fast characters like Sheik and Pichu. Then i start throwing too many unnecessary moves around hoping that one will eventually hit but i end up being punished.

2. What is the best way to get rid of these bad habits? I really don’t like the way I am using Yoshi and I know I am better with him than that, but I feel tempted to use that move every time. How can I get out of that habit so I can play better online?
Depends on the habit but i'd say finding a better option as a replacement is the first step, getting comfortable with the replacement would be the second step. For example, instead of using down-b to get back to the ground you could go for a read and use down-air instead (it has armor iirc). Once you found your replacement, practice it until it becomes a reflex (a 'good habit').

Hope this helps :yoshi:
 
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It's easy for me to just stick to a bunch of moves and use them over and over again. Example being with zard I often run to the ledge and use flamethrower. That's my go to thing. What THAT means is I almost always get hit by an upb that hits through the platforms. Even K.Rool's upb hits through the stage. I still try to turn off going on automatic pilot like that but it's still a bad habit.
 
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I don't really worry about projectiles because I play a character with a reflector. Meaning most of the Links I run into have to switch their playstile and most players can't do that well if they can't rely on projectiles that much as they can in other match-ups. Ness/Lucas are also surprisingly fun matches for me.
However, I consider :ultpichu:/:ultpikachu: , :ultyoshi:and :ultivysaur: as super annoying. Ivysaur and Yoshi because I lack real match-up experience and Pichu/Pikachu can rush Zelda down with no real problems. Sword characters are mostly ok for me, though. I know what they can and you can still wall down if needed (or I've never played a really good player using FE characters).
 

MacSmitty

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Personally for me, it's having to deal with characters who have enormous shield pressure since blocking in this game has been nerfed, and playing against characters you have to chase such as Wii Fit Trainer and Zero Suit Samus.
 
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TheDuke54

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The guy who runs away until the clock runs out in hopes of winning sudden death.

Also when on omega stages (or whatever stage is the one similar to for glory, but with three platforms) Gets boring having to deal with a projectile spammer who hides underneath one of the far edge platforms and spam projectiles. Then when you close in on them they run off to the other side. I can beat them most times, but it is never fun. NEVER.
 

$.A.F.

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Ness and Samus, free. At high levels they take a lot of skill, but the majority of people who play the character (especially online) are idiots who spam the same stuff and run away. They’re very beatable (even online) but I don’t like playing matches that go to time.

Also Bayonetta. Maybe it’s because I never played 4, but I have no idea what to do against her combos. Even though you win because she can’t kill, it feels like you don’t play the game when she starts a combo and they go on forever.
 

TheDuke54

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Almost all Ness players that I run into online just pk fire the whole time. For Lucas its freeze. I used to come across a lot of Samus spammers on 4, but not so much on Ult.

Bayonetta was a lot worst on 4, especially pre-patch. When she first came out, almost everyone was using her. Her combos aren't nearly as impossible to get out of as they were in 4. If you got hit by her combo you might as well sit back and do something else. Not because you're dead, but because her combo was that easy to dish out and that hard to get out of.

Her combo on 4 did kill at low percents because one combo just dialed into another until the opponent was in the sky blast zone. I'm glad she got nerfed as hard as she did. Any online match for 4 was just predictable and boring whenever someone picked her.
 
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Dabble Dot

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Rolling into you used to be a big one but I don't see that too much these days. I find that almost every player I play against recovers as high as they possible can. So I just jump up with my jigglypuff as high as i can to edge guard. It's disturbingly common.
Another thing is I count to 3 then throw out a smash. Everyone always aproaches into range of a smash after 3 seconds. It's wierd but it works.

What are some other things you've noticed in online play?
 
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This is a mistake I see a lot, as well as doing it myself.
A lot of times, I am edge guarding with Meta Knight, and things are going very smoothly. I have knocked my opponent upwards using my neutrals, and then I use Shuttle Loop for an easy KO, but alas, I am facing the wrong direction, and instead of KO-ing my opponent, I am left extremely vulnerable.
Worse yet - I am trying to use my Mach Tornado to edge guard, but I go out too far, and I fall to my doom.

Pretty much, the mistakes I see are people trying to land a combo but they are facing the wrong direction, or they try to do an edge guard, but they time it wrong and they self-destruct. These can apply for almost every character. Make sure that you are timing your stuff right and that you are facing the right direction before you attack.
 
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Let’s say rulesets are normal and no weird stages with low time. Personally I think the most annoying characters to run into are a good Snake, the Belmonts (not because they’re difficult, their spam is just annoying), Ridley when all they do is the command grab and fire balls, and spammy K Rools. Basically anything that spans over and over again and any zoners are annoying. What do you guys think?
One word: JOKER :ultjoker:

While I am decent at taking him down with Meta Knight, whenever I am playing with my other main, Lucina, it is hard to get hits on him because of that stupid shadow flame special, or his long-lasting counter, or that he moves so fast! Not only that, but when he hits you or you hit him, that stupid gauge fills up and he can summon a demon ghost that greatly amplifies his abilities!
While I am good at edge-guarding Joker or juking him with Meta Knight (teleport), whenever he summons his demon ghost, I pretty much have to run around or jump underneath the stage to get to the other side (Meta Knight has 6 jumps). And I can only do that with Meta Knight or Kirby. Whenever I fight Joker with Lucina, I can't avoid Joker when he has the demon ghost.
While Joker is pretty strong, I can still beat him with characters that have excellent recovery, but that's the line. Only characters with good recovery. I am not comfortable with playing as Lucina anymore because I'm being matched against Joker users. I'm not saying that Joker is broken or anything, he's just really good against characters with sucky recovery.

Some other characters that piss me off:
  • Mario
  • Pokemon Trainer
  • Ness (he doesn't require any skill and him saying 'Take that' is really annoying)
  • Lucas
  • Incineroar
  • Villager/Isabelle
  • Olimar
  • King K. Rool
  • Bowser
P.S. I'm not saying that the characters in the above list should be changed, neither should Joker.
 

Coolboy

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Captain Falcon being played by skilled players.,.omg i just frigging can't.. i struggle alot against him lately..
i notice that each time when i do great against characters i used to get often defeated by...a new character appears that all of a sudden gives me trouble..this time Captain Falcon is it >.<
 

Naov

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For me, the most Annoying are:

:ultbowser: who only relies on grabs
:ultness::ultlucas: who only spams, and are also the worst matchup against my :ultgunner:.
:ultjigglypuff: they ALL rely on the same gameplay of air combos
:ultsimon::ultrichter: who spam, but it has been a while since I played against one, maybe they are not used anymore on high gsp?
:ultbayonetta1: Most of times, i just hate her in almost every aspect haha


:ultzelda: has an annoying game too, but it is fairly easy to learn and punish. So I rarely lose to one now.


:ultmegaman::ultwolf::ultinkling::ultpichu::ultlucina::ultpokemontrainer: tend to be difficult but not annoying.



:ultjoker: is only annoying right now but mostly because everyone is playing it, the same happened with :ultpiranha: at the time.
 
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$.A.F.

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For me, the most Annoying are:

:ultbowser: who only relies on grabs
:ultness::ultlucas: who only spams, and are also the worst matchup against my :ultgunner:.
:ultjigglypuff: they ALL rely on the same gameplay of air combos
:ultsimon::ultrichter: who spam, but it has been a while since I played against one, maybe they are not used anymore on high gsp?
:ultbayonetta1: Most of times, i just hate her in almost every aspect haha


:ultzelda: has an annoying game too, but it is fairly easy to learn and punish. So I rarely lose to one now.


:ultmegaman::ultwolf::ultinkling::ultpichu::ultlucina::ultpokemontrainer: tend to be difficult but not annoying.



:ultjoker: is only annoying right now but mostly because everyone is playing it, the same happened with :ultpiranha: at the time.
No offense, but a Samus main complaining about spam?
 

~?~

The Strangest Link Main
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Of course you don't. Anyone who plays Ness knows how frustrating it is to land a PK Fire on a competent player who is good. Even online. Which is why MG_3989 uses it sparingly. It's an easy move punish. Unless you're playing a braindead player. They run into it like moths to light. In that case, spam away. Get the match over with so you can move on to someone decent.

Sounds to me like a whole lot of assumptions about PK Fire and not a whole lot of proving that he's a braindead character.
The proof is in Yoyo and players with a 900,000,000 ping on their connection spamming PK fires you can't react to because you're missing 50 of the 60 frames a second or they lag 60 frames so half the time when you tap shield or jump, it doesn't buffer because it was on a freeze frame.

No offense, but a Samus main complaining about spam?
They clearly play a Mii fighter, not Samus, but you're not wrong, Samus mains spam online harder than anyone.

_________________________________________________________________________

My peeve is joker because his counter actually carries people. I've hit jokers UNDER platforms with an uptilt and STILL got hit by their counter while they were above the platform. A lot of things carry joker outside of matchups with short characters.

b-b-b-b-ut he can't kill - said the the joker main who knows I'm right.

BULL, I've seen Joker kill people with good DI from center stage off the side blast zone WITHOUT arsen at like 100.

I've also seen this character consistently beatout Lucina fairs with frikin Jab..... JAB!!!

My last issue with him is, EVERYONE uses him. Call it "hype train for a couple weeks" all you want. It's actually draining to see 99 out of 100 matches be joker VS Joker or Joker VS X until they switch to Joker.

I was the same way about Plant when everyone was using him, the only difference is, players have to carry plant, Joker carries players.
 
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Naov

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No offense, but a Samus main complaining about spam?
:ultgunner: is not Samus, it's Mii Gunner.

I'm not really sure If I am spammy. Probably sometimes as most of its attacks are projectiles, but I try to vary my movies during the game to have more fun.


Actually I like to play against Samuses, because sometimes it feels like an arcade game with all the weapons trying to defeat the other each on a side of the stage haha.

As a Mii Gunner I use a lot the Drop Bomb, but other than that I vary constantly between smash attaks, dash, grabs and airs. :ultgunner: became my fav just because of that, it has so many good moves that you can always use all your moveset and vary the playstyle depending on who is the opponent.
 
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$.A.F.

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:ultgunner: is not Samus, it's Mii Gunner.

I'm not really sure If I am spammy. Probably sometimes as most of its attacks are projectiles, but I try to vary my movies during the game to have more fun.


Actually I like to play against Samuses, because sometimes it feels like an arcade game with all the weapons trying to defeat the other each on a side of the stage haha.

As a Mii Gunner I use a lot the Drop Bomb, but other than that I vary constantly between smash attaks, dash, grabs and airs. :ultgunner: became my fav just because of that, it has so many good moves that you can always use all your moveset and vary the playstyle depending on who is the opponent.
My mistake. Thought the gun was Samus’s A bit of a brain fart.
 

Mikazuki

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Joker has become quite annoying as well, because most players online play him like Ness, not the skilled ones, you know what I mean. Running back and forth and using sideb and dash attack over and over again. Also the occasional counter that gets hard punished by a fully charged fsmash. It`s also funny how every Joker gets up from the ledge by jumping and using sideb than eating a flip jump kick or pin to the face. Yeah, these flowchart type of plays really make him easy to deal with, but like with Ganon, Ness or Bowser you still get fmashed at 30% and die, adding salt to the injury.

Another thing that kinda annoys me is how many players online still play Ulitmate like Smash 4 and buffer a shield after each action, especially these grab greedy heavies. How many times do I have to Tomahawk or break your shield until you understand that it won't work?
 

$.A.F.

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Joker has become quite annoying as well, because most players online play him like Ness, not the skilled ones, you know what I mean. Running back and forth and using sideb and dash attack over and over again. Also the occasional counter that gets hard punished by a fully charged fsmash. It`s also funny how every Joker gets up from the ledge by jumping and using sideb than eating a flip jump kick or pin to the face. Yeah, these flowchart type of plays really make him easy to deal with, but like with Ganon, Ness or Bowser you still get fmashed at 30% and die, adding salt to the injury.

Another thing that kinda annoys me is how many players online still play Ulitmate like Smash 4 and buffer a shield after each action, especially these grab greedy heavies. How many times do I have to Tomahawk or break your shield until you understand that it won't work?
Ness and Joker have pretty weak smash attacks, unless you mean Arsene.
 

Nubby

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One word: JOKER :ultjoker:

While I am decent at taking him down with Meta Knight, whenever I am playing with my other main, Lucina, it is hard to get hits on him because of that stupid shadow flame special, or his long-lasting counter, or that he moves so fast! Not only that, but when he hits you or you hit him, that stupid gauge fills up and he can summon a demon ghost that greatly amplifies his abilities!
While I am good at edge-guarding Joker or juking him with Meta Knight (teleport), whenever he summons his demon ghost, I pretty much have to run around or jump underneath the stage to get to the other side (Meta Knight has 6 jumps). And I can only do that with Meta Knight or Kirby. Whenever I fight Joker with Lucina, I can't avoid Joker when he has the demon ghost.
While Joker is pretty strong, I can still beat him with characters that have excellent recovery, but that's the line. Only characters with good recovery. I am not comfortable with playing as Lucina anymore because I'm being matched against Joker users. I'm not saying that Joker is broken or anything, he's just really good against characters with sucky recovery.

Some other characters that piss me off:
  • Mario
  • Pokemon Trainer
  • Ness (he doesn't require any skill and him saying 'Take that' is really annoying)
  • Lucas
  • Incineroar
  • Villager/Isabelle
  • Olimar
  • King K. Rool
  • Bowser
P.S. I'm not saying that the characters in the above list should be changed, neither should Joker.
I thought I was alone saying Joker is annoying to fight against. Also why is Mario an annoying character to fight? Just curious.
 
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I thought I was alone saying Joker is annoying to fight against. Also why is Mario an annoying character to fight? Just curious.
His water attack from Sunshine is really good at keeping opponents from the edge. The super cape is even more annoying.
 

Jaro235

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Rolling into you used to be a big one but I don't see that too much these days. I find that almost every player I play against recovers as high as they possible can. So I just jump up with my jigglypuff as high as i can to edge guard. It's disturbingly common.
Another thing is I count to 3 then throw out a smash. Everyone always aproaches into range of a smash after 3 seconds. It's wierd but it works.

What are some other things you've noticed in online play?
Sorry for the late response. Other things that I have noticed in online play is that many players abuse spot dodging, they camp as much as they can if they have good projectiles and do nothing else, they are usually not good at teching, and if they have a counter, they will abuse it to no end. Those are just some of the things that I have noticed. I am not saying that all online players are like this, but many of them are. When I come across a player like this, I can usually exploit their pattern.
 
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Ambuuuuu

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I find myself doing Spotdodge to Downsmash (most likely due to my control stick not having to be moved,) Always teching in place, and whenever someone is at the ledge, I find myself charging a smash, expecting them to walk into it.
 
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*See people accusing all Link players of projectile spamming*

Hey i don't spam projecti- wait...

"And no I'm not a Link who spams projectiles" - Every Link main in Smash
Damn you!
:p

But joking aside, as many other Link players, i use projectiles but i don't spam them (unless we don't share the same definition of spam). Personally, i don't want to spam for a few reasons:
1. Using the same attack repeatedly will activate the stale-move negation mechanic which will gradually reduce the dmg and knockback of the spammed attack each times it hits (the opponent or the opponent's shield).
2. It's not fun (what's fun for me in Smash is trying to use various approaches to a situation plus, pissing people off is not fun at all, at least for me).
3. I'm not learning anything from it (i find it way more rewarding to learn how to use a character's whole moveset)
4. If i rely too much on projectiles, any character with a reflector will eat me alive

But i can understand why people get frustrated with projectiles based characters. Personally, I still struggle against very defensive Samus players but i learned their patterns pretty well, it just takes an extra amount of concentration to beat them.

Btw, the most annoying characters for me (the master spikers): :ultmario::ultyoshi::ultdk::ultfalcon:

No generalization but some of those players have absolutely no chill :p, they'll just constantly try to spike you even if you're waaaaaay out of their range or even if you spend like 0.5 second offstage, they'll go for the spike, e-v-e-r-y time. It's not that bad but it's a bit stressful.
 
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