Countering (Projectile) Spam - Ultimate

Sudz

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This is true, aside from Richter's Holy Water not setting off bombs and damaging Red Pikmin. But as Simon does not show up for me as much as Richter, he has not been able to inflict the most annoying upon me in total.
Take this! Heuh! Heuh! Heuh! Heuh! Heuh! Take this!

*stares blankly into the abyss*
 
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Easy answer, but zoners in general. Even more so if it's a team battle due to the absence of team attack in quickplay. Going up against double zoner teams just makes me wanna pop out the game card and play some Mario Kart instead, especially since they're almost always super laggy as well.
For a non-safety quip response, though, Marcina. I really just have no idea how to fight those guys. Their range and frame data makes them nigh impossible to challenge or punish and they hit hard to boot, meanwhile I'm just sitting here wondering how awesome it would be if I had godlike frames, early kills, and unbeatable disjoints all at once. Seriously, how is that fair? (No pun intended, of course.)
 
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Bubs Cooper

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:ultganondorf: i know how to play him, at my first time i got annoyed with him, yet this was me playing the game at first, but a lot of Ganondorf players will try and go for the flame choke and perform another attack afterwards. Btw he's my secondary. SImply just avoid getting command grabbed by him, also avoid his sword too. If you see him gonna start using his sword pull out your shield or move away.

:ultkingdedede: I know how to play against him, since i main Fox, if you main either :ultwolf::ultfalco: :ultmario::ultdoc:or :ultfox: you can reflect the Gordo's back at them. unless if you main Wolf you can just shoot the Gordo right back at dedede across the stage. Any other character it's all on timing. But i still find him a bit annoying but i just pull a copycat and just nair him back with Fox. That is if you main :ultchrom::ultmarth::ultlucina::ultcorrin::ultcorrinf::ultkrool::ultmetaknight::ultroy::ultrobin::ultrobinf::ultshulk: :ultincineroar::ultlittlemac:who have counter attacks which can deflect the Gordo back at them. HOWEVER if they catch the gordo you deflected and throw it back at you, and repeat the same action and play a game of hot potato. :)

:ultduckhunt: where do i begin with Duck hunt, oh yeah the frisbees... i don't know if i can reflect them. I should try it out and see if i can. I learned how to avoid the barrels and the wild west men too, you just hit them to disarm them.

Now.. :ultkrool:however i learned you can disable his projectile attacks by constantly picking up the crown and throw it away from him and keep doing it. Because that will make them more likely result to be forced to use Smash attacks until they get their crown back.


I hope this info helps for some users having a hard time with spammy and zoner characters.
 

Mischiiii

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I can’t really point out any characters specifically. It always depends on the player.

Also i try to keep the mindset that i can beat anything if i do the right thing. With just one char in elite i don’t think I’m in a league where matchups are a unbelievable huge thing (but existent).

Most of the time though I get angry playing against people who spam one or two moves. But when i lose to them i always know that i just reacted badly to a very predictable player.
 

FartyParty

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Easy answer, but zoners in general. Even more so if it's a team battle due to the absence of team attack in quickplay. Going up against double zoner teams just makes me wanna pop out the game card and play some Mario Kart instead, especially since they're almost always super laggy as well.
For a non-safety quip response, though, Marcina. I really just have no idea how to fight those guys. Their range and frame data makes them nigh impossible to challenge or punish and they hit hard to boot, meanwhile I'm just sitting here wondering how awesome it would be if I had godlike frames, early kills, and unbeatable disjoints all at once. Seriously, how is that fair? (No pun intended, of course.)
Lucina main here wondering how a Mewtwo main struggles against my character. We can't edge guard you and your tail is longer than our sword!!
 
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Lucina main here wondering how a Mewtwo main struggles against my character. We can't edge guard you and your tail is longer than our sword!!
First of all, I never said I was good. Second, while it's true Mewtwo has some disjoints of his own, they aren't really fast or big enough to challenge Lucina's. It doesn't help that Marth and Lucina are just generally really good characters in this game. (Like every other Smash game they're in...) Also, edgeguarding in general is kind of a lost cause in this game due to how safe most recoveries are anyway. Sacrificing stage control and the advantage for an edgeguard attempt usually isn't worth it in most matchups.
 
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Veigar

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anything with lag is awful. chars like K rool in particular are stupidly annoying because of how cheese they are
 

FartyParty

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First of all, I never said I was good. Second, while it's true Mewtwo has some disjoints of his own, they aren't really fast or big enough to challenge Lucina's. It doesn't help that Marth and Lucina are just generally really good characters in this game. (Like every other Smash game they're in...) Also, edgeguarding in general is kind of a lost cause in this game due to how safe most recoveries are anyway. Sacrificing stage control and the advantage for an edgeguard attempt usually isn't worth it in most matchups.
I mean, I'm not all that good either, a little above average but no more, so I guess we could debate all day about who has the matchup advantage and probably never reach an agreement. I'm pretty certain Mewtwo has the edge, nonetheless.

You're seriously wrong about edge guarding though. It's one of the best means of getting kills in this game, and you don't necessarily have to connect with an attack offstage either. A lot of times it's enough just to present the threat offstage and force your opponent to make a move earlier than they wanted to which can lead to mistakes. For example, you can jump offstage while your opponent is approaching the ledge, and even if you don't do an attack and go straight back to the level, your opponent might still react to the threat and air dodge, use their double jump too early, or mis-time their up special. As a result, they could miss the ledge and die or land on stage instead of the ledge allowing you to punish.

Specifically for Mewtwo, you have a great recovery so you can safely go pretty far offstage and force your opponent's hand. Both your neutral air and back air are good edge guarding tools against someone recovering high or who uses their jump too early. If they're trying to recover low you can go for a back air to hit them into the underside of the level, which is virtually guaranteed to kill most characters at most % since they'll ricochet into the blast zone. Only top players will react fast enough to tech that and survive.
 
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Sean²

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First of all, I never said I was good. Second, while it's true Mewtwo has some disjoints of his own, they aren't really fast or big enough to challenge Lucina's. It doesn't help that Marth and Lucina are just generally really good characters in this game. (Like every other Smash game they're in...) Also, edgeguarding in general is kind of a lost cause in this game due to how safe most recoveries are anyway. Sacrificing stage control and the advantage for an edgeguard attempt usually isn't worth it in most matchups.
Edgeguarding is how I net most of my kills, it's absolutely a good option unless you go too deep. There are only a couple recoveries in the game that are hard to edgeguard.

Lucina main here wondering how a Mewtwo main struggles against my character. We can't edge guard you and your tail is longer than our sword!!
You can two frame Mewtwo's teleport, it's usually super obvious when they're going for the ledge. I feel like Lucina should have something to cover this option
 

MacSmitty

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As of late it's Zelda, mainly due to the overusage of her specials more than anything. The Phantom Hourglass armor attack is annoying to deal with both uncharged and charged because of the delay, and the fact that jumping over it doesn't mean you won't get hit. Factor that with Din's Fire's and getting the edge is a pain.

And her most annoying special is Naryu's Love due to that fact when ever you get even close to a online Zelda, they overuse this move.

So in general, I gotta go for the hard punishes and bait out moves when fighting Zelda, which wouldn't be an issue for me if Ultimate's defense mechanics weren't so bad...
 

FartyParty

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people with reflect. I main link and when i cant poke you with my arrows or boomerang it really neuters my gameplan. (Zelda, fox, d3, etc.)
I recently discovered playing Palutena that I if I evade and let the boomerang go past me then use reflect on it making the return trip, it will go straight through me and deal damage to Link when it gets back to him. So sneaky hehe
 
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Whit

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I have to say the most annoying character is :ultincineroar: The fact that they can counter one small attack and then use the unblockable side b to do 40+ damage plus increased knockback makes me so mad. I haven't played against any Inciniroar's online, my buddy mains him and it is just awful. Thank your stars if you haven't gone up against a good Inciniroar.

Other than that, I'd say :ultzelda: is the most annoying to go up against online solely because of her neutral b. All day long she spams it.
Someone get's too close?
Press B.
Projectile?
Press B.
Don't know what else to do?
Press B.
Not to mention it's range and how long it lasts. I could go on about her knight, but I don't find it too bad if you know when its coming. But ya man, screw that neutral b.

I am very curious to hear what specifically most people don't like about :ultinkling:. They are my main and I always hear that nobody likes playing against them. I totally get the roller, that is very scary to play against, but it did get nerfed pretty hard with 2.0. Just wondering because I only ever do okay with them and I don't see much of them online to be super annoying.
 
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FartyParty

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I have to say the most annoying character is :ultincineroar: The fact that they can counter one small attack and then use the unblockable side b to do 40+ damage plus increased knockback makes me so mad. I haven't played against any Inciniroar's online, my buddy mains him and it is just awful. Thank your stars if you haven't gone up against a good Inciniroar.

Other than that, I'd say :ultzelda: is the most annoying to go up against online solely because of her neutral b. All day long she spams it.
Someone get's too close?
Press B.
Projectile?
Press B.
Don't know what else to do?
Press B.
Not to mention it's range and how long it lasts. I could go on about her knight, but I don't find it too bad if you know when its coming. But ya man, screw that neutral b.

I am very curious to hear what specifically most people don't like about :ultinkling:. They are my main and I always hear that nobody likes playing against them. I totally get the roller, that is very scary to play against, but it did get nerfed pretty hard with 2.0. Just wondering because I only ever do okay with them and I don't see much of them online to be super annoying.
Inkling really isn't so bad. Even before the roller nerf they weren't so bad. The one thing about them that annoys the crap out of me though is the landing damage on their up special. Like come on Nintendo, you made this character near impossible to edge guard AND you give them a basically free landing?

Technically that complaint applies to Zelda also.
 

Frizz

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As :ultrobin:, it'd have to be :ultzelda: and :ultsimon:/:ultrichter:. They throw out a ton of projectiles like nobody's business, which is a problem for Robin since he doesn't really have any tools to deal with them.

I really wouldn't mind the matchup if I was :ultvillager: for example, but since I can only play as :ultrobin: in Elite, I do mind. A lot.
 

kirby3021

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I am very curious to hear what specifically most people don't like about :ultinkling:. They are my main and I always hear that nobody likes playing against them. I totally get the roller, that is very scary to play against, but it did get nerfed pretty hard with 2.0. Just wondering because I only ever do okay with them and I don't see much of them online to be super annoying.
For me personally, I feel like Inkling is always changing size and is incredibly difficult to hit. It also feels like all of Inkling's moves come out instantly, and it can be very hard to track their movement. I imagine as I get more match-up experience with them some of these pains will go away, but right now it is just not a very fun match-up to play and I feel almost powerless when playing against a good Inkling player.
 

Oneiros5321

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For me personally, I feel like Inkling is always changing size and is incredibly difficult to hit. It also feels like all of Inkling's moves come out instantly, and it can be very hard to track their movement. I imagine as I get more match-up experience with them some of these pains will go away, but right now it is just not a very fun match-up to play and I feel almost powerless when playing against a good Inkling player.
Pretty much agree with that. I don't think Inkling is OP or anything, but his dashing animation makes it really confusing and hard to follow. That's actually the only complain I have for this character. I know it's a cool little hint to Splatoon but I don't think it's really practical in the context of Smash.

:ultincineroar: is probably the character I'm struggling the most with. His side B is good, maybe a little bit too good against certain character. If the opponent spams it, it's not too hard to punish or get used to but I feel like it's a really little risk high reward move.
It should probably either travel less distance or do less damage in my opinion.

:ultolimar: haven't fought a lot of them online. But every single time, it was probably the least fun I had in this game. Most of the time, wether I win or lose, I just put down the game after I encounter him because I'm just not into it anymore.
 
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MG_3989

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Pretty much agree with that. I don't think Inkling is OP or anything, but his dashing animation makes it really confusing and hard to follow. That's actually the only complain I have for this character. I know it's a cool little hint to Splatoon but I don't think it's really practical in the context of Smash.

:ultincineroar: is probably the character I'm struggling the most with. His side B is good, maybe a little bit too good against certain character. If the opponent spams it, it's not too hard to punish or get used to but I feel like it's a really little risk high reward move.

:ultolimar: haven't fought a lot of them online. But every single time, it was probably the least fun I had in this game. Most of the time, wether I win or lose, I just put down the game after I encounter him because I'm just not into it anymore.
Olimar is just legit never fun to play even if you have a good matchup with him and win. It’s so painstaking everytime

:ultganondorf:+:ultkrool: are characters I usually like playing and win against like 9 out of 10 times but if I lose against them I feel so bad about myself that sometimes I stop playing lol
 

Oneiros5321

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:ultganondorf:+:ultkrool: are characters I usually like playing and win against like 9 out of 10 times but if I lose against them I feel so bad about myself that sometimes I stop playing lol
Can relate to that...those character are so predictable but sometimes I'm just like "Okay, he's going to do that"...yup, he did it, and I still managed to get hit by it.
 
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MG_3989

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Can relate to that...those character are so predictable but sometimes I'm just like "Okay, he's going to do that"...yup, he did it, and I still managed to get hit by it.
Exactly or walking into a stray fsmash Ganondorf is literally the worst feeling. Even if I’m a stock down I still feel like I should win especially as Ness. It just makes me feel bad when I lose to them lol
 

Crystanium

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Quite a few annoying characters.

:ultsimon: :ultrichter: : I once felt bad for these two because of their poor recovery. Not anymore. Please never show your faces in the next game.

:ultolimar: : The epitome of a master-slave concept. Tell me again why Olimar has a better kill throw than Samus, let alone a kill throw at all. People complaining about Ness being brain-dead probably never dealt with Olimar. Or they have and hate Ness for other reasons.

:ultzelda: : Neutral B for days. And it's effective. You can see Farore's Wind miles away, go for a shield, and still get hit. And why doesn't destroying the phantom cause Zelda to have to wait? Oh, and if Zelda uses Nayru's Love, there is a chance her intangibility will cause my grab to miss. Why be rewarded for failure? Cute character, but annoying as hell.

:ultsnake: : Get this mother****ing Snake out of my mother****ing game.

:ultluigi: : This character is brain-dead. Did Nintendo nerf his janky ass? No. He got buffed instead. Miyamoto privilege. Just look how ZSS' f-smash got nerfed. Nice bias.

:ultyoshi: : Another character who got buffed in spite of already being good. More of that Miyamoto privilege.

:ultlink: : All Links are annoying. Go burn in Death Mountain you damn elves.

There might be more, but yeah. Screw these characters.
 

MG_3989

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Ok I forgot to add a big one

:ultike: - I’m not talking about component Ike players here. Ok talking about Ike players who think his only move’s are side b, up b, and up smash and somehow made it into elite smash. And there are a lot of them

Also was just reading the :ultness: is brain dead talk and I think it’s hilarious. I want anyone who says that to try and mix up their recovery with PK Thunder, Air Dodge, and PSI Magnet to cancel momentum,
Combo off PSI magnet and uair into grab, chase with PK Thunder and juggle with it avoiding air dodges mixing his other aerials and being unpredictable enough not to get severely punished because you’re completely vulnerable in PKT, land a clutch PKT2, even hit uair correctly so it will kill, play mind games with projectile users like Samus, Mewtwo, and Lucario with PSI Magnet, knock back projectiles with the bat consistently, do the yo-yo dsmash and usmash ledge trap (not just the dangle either, the release 2 frame), go deep off stage with Ness’s aerials to edgeguard and then recover, PK fire trap somebody next to ledge and spike them, and try and play neutral against a character that out ranges you

If you can learn all that in a day I’m all for calling Ness brain dead because that’s pretty much what you have to know to play him well (there’s more than that too). So please don’t talk about things you have no idea about. I know it was a long time ago but still, it really annoyed me all of the sudden lol
 
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MacSmitty

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:ultpiranha: - This thing, mainly because of it's neutral special. I find it completely unfair that if I hit it while it does it's neutral B I get punished for it. Not only that, that spiked ball is pain to avoid when trying to get back on the ledge.
 

FartyParty

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Exactly or walking into a stray fsmash Ganondorf is literally the worst feeling. Even if I’m a stock down I still feel like I should win especially as Ness. It just makes me feel bad when I lose to them lol
When I'm on the ledge against a Ganondorf and they're charging their fsmash, I constantly forget that I can't just jump over them and wind up getting smashed.
 

Wiinner159

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Make a guess...
:ultganondorf:: You thought you could dodge my strike?


Personally I find it quite annoting to fight my own mains when I play my off-day characters cause 9 times outta 10 they're using the character completely wrong and either cheap or straight up bad and it bothers me that I share a main with these people. Like come now that character has so much potential stop playing so dumb!
 

Oneiros5321

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:ultganondorf:: You thought you could dodge my strike?


Personally I find it quite annoting to fight my own mains when I play my off-day characters cause 9 times outta 10 they're using the character completely wrong and either cheap or straight up bad and it bothers me that I share a main with these people. Like come now that character has so much potential stop playing so dumb!

You mean....side B, side B, side B, side B? :rolleyes:

After 300hrs into the game, I've learnt that I can actually tech this attack. I have sort of mix feelings, being happy to know that I won't get bullied by that thing anymore but also feeling stupid to have never thought about teching it :facepalm:
 
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Almost every Ganondorf on quickplay I see automatically uses down-b when the battle starts. So predictable to the point where I shield or counter it.
 
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Wiinner159

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Make a guess...
You mean....side B, side B, side B, side B? :rolleyes:

After 300hrs into the game, I've learnt that I can actually tech this attack. I have sort of mix feelings, being happy to know that I won't get bullied by that thing anymore but also feeling stupid to have never thought about teching it :facepalm:
Yeah teching it has always been an option. When you get side b'd you can either do nothing, tech it, roll left, roll right, or getup attack. A good Ganon is all about making them hard reads on what you're going to do and capitalize. It's a great move to be sure, but the follow-ups are all read-based when facing someone who knows the options. Been playing Dorf all the way back in Brawl when "competitive play" in my mind was just level 9 CPUs so I find it funny to see plenty of people complaining about Dorfs that clearly aren't utilizing the whole kit XD
 

THE SLOTH

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:ultganondorf:: You thought you could dodge my strike?


Personally I find it quite annoting to fight my own mains when I play my off-day characters cause 9 times outta 10 they're using the character completely wrong and either cheap or straight up bad and it bothers me that I share a main with these people. Like come now that character has so much potential stop playing so dumb!
This is 100% me everytime I’m on Quickplay and trying a character outside my norm. I get paired with scrubby K. Rools that harass me with neutral special and side special, and spam either his smash attacks or dash attack. With enough practice, I can get their patterns down and punish them for their unsafe options, although most of them A) excessively t-bag after the last kill and/or B) leave after Game 1.

On topic, biggest struggles online are against :ultsamus:/:ultdarksamus: and :ultzelda:. As tedious as it can be, especially playing as K. Rool, I can get around most zoners just fine. Except for these two/three. The Samuses just have an obnoxious F-Air that shuts down a lot of my approaches toward them, which usually ends up shield poking if all/most hits connect. Zelda is just... pure frustration to play against, no matter the character. Away from Zelda? She’s got no incentive to approach you, side special can probably snipe you from there. Moving into mid-range? Side special still works here, and her down special can come out pretty fast, or get charged to hit you after a delay on the ground or from one of the lower BF platforms. Get past her and enter close range? Neutral special is like a second shield that punishes you for approaching her. It wins against attacks, grabs, even standing next to her will get you hit, as the hitbox extends a decent bit horizontally at the end. And this move comes out pretty fast too, meaning if she whiffs an attack next to you, and you go in to punish with a grab, jab, or tilt? Nine times outta ten, she can mash B to get neutral special out and punish you for it. Of course, if she does this excessively, you can delay your punish, but in the heat of a fast-paced match, it can be hard to remember this. Not calling Samus/Dark Samus or Zelda overpowered or braindead characters, far from it, they’ve just been some of my most frustrating matchups thus far.
 

Sudz

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I find it completely unfair that if I hit it while it does it's neutral B I get punished for it.
Maybe don't run up and attack him when there's a giant spiky ball over his head until you figure out how to properly space your attacks lmao
 

THE SLOTH

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Maybe don't run up and attack him when there's a giant spiky ball over his head until you figure out how to properly space your attacks lmao
Word of advice, Ptooie has a deadzone right in front of where Piranha Plant initiates the move that it won't hit you if you're standing in if PP fires it in your direction (unless maybe you're a big character, but crouching or doing a d-tilt keeps you safe in that regard). As for grabbing PP out of Ptooie, try to not dash grab, as you'll more often than not slide right into the falling spike ball. Try for a standing or pivot grab instead. And if the ball's coming for you even when you've grabbed PP, try to initiate one of your throws before it hits you to abuse your throw invincibility.
 
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Sudz

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Word of advice, Ptooie has a deadzone right in front of where Piranha Plant initiates the move that it won't hit you if you're standing in if PP fires it in your direction (unless maybe you're a big character, but crouching or doing a d-tilt keeps you safe in that regard). As for grabbing PP out of Ptooie, try to not dash grab, as you'll more often than not slide right into the falling spike ball. Try for a standing or pivot grab instead. And if the ball's coming for you even when you've grabbed PP, try to initiate one of your throws before it hits you to abuse your throw invincibility.
Run up there and just charge a Smash attack to filter out the PP pretenders :colorful:
 
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I panic almost every time I have to fight :ultpikachu: or :ultpichu:. These boys **** me up. It’s ridiculous too. My brother mained Pikachu in Brawl, and one of my best friends is a Pika main in Smash 4 and Ultimate. And yet I am still absolute ass at fighting him. Pichu is far worse though. Definitely responsible for a great number of my rage quits online.

Characters that are short, fast, and strong that like to pester are generally my weakness. :ultsquirtle::ultyoshi:and:ultdiddy:also give me a pretty tough time.

:ultvillager: can screw off too. I usually don’t have a huge issue with zoners. I can handle Samus, Links, Belmonts, Mega Man, etc. but that god forsaken slingshot is a nightmare for me. It’s so swift and so powerful and so difficult to punish. Not fun. Not fun at all.
 

Zawaz132

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Zawaz132
:ultpiranha: - This thing, mainly because of it's neutral special. I find it completely unfair that if I hit it while it does it's neutral B I get punished for it. Not only that, that spiked ball is pain to avoid when trying to get back on the ledge.
I've been sparing with a friend the past few days as I've been trying to learn :ultpiranha:, and I've definitely tried what you were talking about with holding neutral special. My friend and I found a pretty funny counter to that problem actually.
Basically, the spike ball can only be thrown at a limited arch, so if you stand right next to the plant while he's holding the spike ball, he can't do anything. You can literally walk into him and push him under a platform so that the ball won't fall on you if you him the plant. Also, if the plant decides to swallow to throw the ball, you can just do a free smash attack during the endlag.

As for who I think is the most annoying character.... It's easily :ultness: but ONLY because of his yelling. If he were as quiet as Samus or only grunted like Link, I honestly wouldn't have a problem with him. And yes, :ultpikachu:/:ultpichu: are annoying when they use neutral specials, but they don't seem to use that move as often, so idk
 
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