Countering (Projectile) Spam - Ultimate

[pollo20x620x6]

TBH I could probably get to elite smash in one session with my day 1 ness. Being braindead doesn’t equate to being OP.

So what's the problem? If it ain't OP, I don't see anything worth complaining about. Anyone relying on winning by fishing with PK Fire will get punished easily.

 

[Ghidorah14]

Doesn’t have to be OP for it to be annoying AF to deal with. How do you not understand this.

 

[leafgreen386]

Every character is the most annoying when there's lag.

 

[pollo20x620x6]

Doesn’t have to be OP for it to be annoying AF to deal with. How do you not understand this.

Because I've yet to be annoyed by PK Fire...?

Its such an easy move to punish, there's nothing to be annoyed about. Once you get better, you'll understand this.

 

[Ghidorah14]

This is why no one likes ness mains, just FYI.

 

[Sean²]

Because I've yet to be annoyed by PK Fire...?

Its such an easy move to punish, there's nothing to be annoyed about. Once you get better, you'll understand this.

With this logic, this thread is pointless.

Every character has something annoying about them.

 

[pollo20x620x6]

This is why no one likes ness mains, just FYI.

Yeah, its easier to blame others rather than take responsibility for one's own shortcomings.
You could just figure out how to fight Ness instead of calling his playstyle braindead cause that's not what's braindead.

 

[Ghidorah14]

You’re turning this into something more than what it is.

Your character is annoying AF to fight, regardless if I win or lose. Instead of whining like the child you play as, just accept it and move on like bayonetta players did. Or better yet, embrace it like the dedede and k rool players have! At least there’s something to be applauded for people who make no apologies for the character they play, instead of constantly whining all the damn time.

 

[Wiinner159]

it’s not like you wanna be close to him anyway with all that super armor.

All that super armor? Last I checked all Ganondorf has is the one move in warlock punch, and that move's entire purpose is off getting one good read on an aggressive one-track-mind foe. If ANY of his other moves had super armor than man have I been missing out.

Back to the topic at hand, honestly it's mostly the FE swordies/Marth-alikes just because I'm dumb and I'm bad at dealing with their range and speed, although whenever I play big heavies I find some of the more combo-oriented characters pretty annoying not due to losing, but to just how long I get juggled by them. Granted, being able to counter-attack with just a few moves and be immediately back up to even is satisfying, but all that juggling can certainly be a bit obnoxious.

 

[pollo20x620x6]

You’re turning this into something more than what it is.

Your character is annoying AF to fight, regardless if I win or lose. Instead of whining like the child you play as, just accept it and move on like bayonetta players did. Or better yet, embrace it like the dedede and k rool players have! At least there’s something to be applauded for people who make no apologies for the character they play, instead of constantly whining all the damn time.

I main Game and Watch and second Shulk.
I just learned the Ness matchup and now he's not annoying.
Cause if we're busting out accusations of braindead, its occurring. Just not with Ness

 

[Ghidorah14]

You don’t main ness? That’s not what you said in a different thread
https://smashboards.com/threads/is-it-just-me-or-is-ness-grab-range-bad.467686/#post-22910650

 

[pollo20x620x6]

You don’t main ness? That’s not what you said in a different thread
https://smashboards.com/threads/is-it-just-me-or-is-ness-grab-range-bad.467686/#post-22910650

Yeah, in smash 4

 

[Ghidorah14]

So why not say “I was a ness main in smash 4” instead of “I am a ness main?” Really odd to get those words confused.

This was only 10 days ago as well.

 

[pollo20x620x6]

So why not say “I was a ness main in smash 4” instead of “I am a ness main?” Really odd to get those words confused.

This was only 10 days ago as well.

It is what it is, dude. For Ultimate, I've been playing Game and Watch primarily and clocked in 24 hours on him vs the 5 I've played with Ness

 

[MG_3989]

This is why no one likes ness mains, just FYI.

Chill on that. You don’t have to go into personal ****. Ness isn’t even one of the characters I see get hate often nor do most people see him as a “braindead” character and if you think somebody’s personality type is based on their main you’re sorely mistaken. When you go in and attack a character this hard it makes it seem like you don’t know how to deal with them.

I’ll play you in a set and not use PK Fire once just to prove to you that Ness isn’t braindead which you decided without playing the character nor watching pros nor taking into account his higher level play.

For whataever reason you’re disproportionately angry about Ness and this thread is about having fun and poking little jabs. All I have to say is Ness mirror me if he’s so brain dead and we’ll see how that ends up because I guess I’ve developed no skill nor mastery of the character after playing him since Melee if he’s that brain dead so we’re on even footing

 

[pollo20x620x6]

http://imgur.com/a/mMk0zt8
I've also been playing Icies. But yeah, ive put in twice as much time with game and watch in ultimate than my number 2. Just saying.

 

[MG_3989]

I don’t know if I said this yet but another character I find super annoying is Mii Gunner. The running from end to end of the stage and shooting missles and charging shots and never approaching. Plus that ridiculously long fsmash is really deceiving. I guess I just never expected a Mii to give me trouble

 

[Ghidorah14]

Chill on that. You don’t have to go into personal ****. Ness isn’t even one of the characters I see get hate often nor do most people see him as a “braindead” character and if you think somebody’s personality type is based on their main you’re sorely mistaken. When you go in and attack a character this hard it makes it seem like you don’t know how to deal with them.

I’ll play you in a set and not use PK Fire once just to prove to you that Ness isn’t braindead which you decided without playing the character nor watching pros nor taking into account his higher level play.

For whataever reason you’re disproportionately angry about Ness and this thread is about having fun and poking little jabs. All I have to say is Ness mirror me if he’s so brain dead and we’ll see how that ends up because I guess I’ve developed no skill nor mastery of the character after playing him since Melee if he’s that brain dead so we’re on even footing

Oh yeah, I’ll mirror match you with a character I don’t play that you have played since melee. That’s sure to prove something, I guess?!

It only got personal because you ness players took it personally. In fact, in my original post, I said pikachu/pichu may actually be even worse.

 

[pollo20x620x6]

Oh yeah, I’ll mirror match you with a character I don’t play that you have played since melee. That’s sure to prove something, I guess?!

It only got personal because you ness players took it personally. In fact, in my original post, I said pikachu/pichu may actually be even worse.

I didnt take it personal. I just offered my counterpoints on viewing Ness as braindead.
But maybe you should play Ness. You'll learn quickly that he's not all that hard to get around. At least, if you're playing decent players.

Chill on that. You don’t have to go into personal ****. Ness isn’t even one of the characters I see get hate often nor do most people see him as a “braindead” character and if you think somebody’s personality type is based on their main you’re sorely mistaken. When you go in and attack a character this hard it makes it seem like you don’t know how to deal with them.

I’ll play you in a set and not use PK Fire once just to prove to you that Ness isn’t braindead which you decided without playing the character nor watching pros nor taking into account his higher level play.

For whataever reason you’re disproportionately angry about Ness and this thread is about having fun and poking little jabs. All I have to say is Ness mirror me if he’s so brain dead and we’ll see how that ends up because I guess I’ve developed no skill nor mastery of the character after playing him since Melee if he’s that brain dead so we’re on even footing

I'd be down for some matches.
My code is SW-3180-4310-5067
Dont hold back on the pk fire, btw. I encourage it.

 

[MG_3989]

I didnt take it personal. I just offered my counterpoints on viewing Ness as braindead.
But maybe you should play Ness. You'll learn quickly that he's not all that hard to get around. At least, if you're playing decent players.

I'd be down for some matches.
My code is SW-3180-4310-5067
Dont hold back on the pk fire, btw. I encourage it.

Added, definitely down to play sometime. I’m the dog playing guitar icon and my name is Matt

Also I didn’t take it personally but when you called my main braindead, a character I’ve put 1000s of hours in work into and am still improving with and learning new things everyday with, yeah it got me a little pissed. I mean if Ness is so brain dead it shouldn’t really make a difference should it?

I’m done with this after this post

 

[pollo20x620x6]

Added, definitely down to play sometime. I’m the dog playing guitar icon and my name is Matt

Also I didn’t take it personally but when you called my main braindead, a character I’ve put 1000s of hours in work into and am still improving with and learning new things everyday with, yeah it got me a little pissed. I mean if Ness is so brain dead it shouldn’t really make a difference should it?

I’m done with this after this post

Cool!

But its not even worth getting pissed about. I dealt with this a lot during smash 4, so all I'd say is "show me".
"PK Fire spam is cheap!"
Show me.
"Ness is an easy character to win with"
Show me.
"PK Fire is a braindead move"
Show me.

And they never do.

 

[Sudz]

 are mindless drudgery to fight, when the players are standard hohoho i made it into elite smash by spamming projectiles and using dash attack when I get close. I generally win, but it's a snoozefest. No hate against the characters, but the mediocre players tend to have a homogenous boring playstyle.

Same applies to the anime swordsman. fairs for days

 

[leafgreen386]

Imo, pk fire is only an annoying move because of how long it keeps you unable to do anything. If it had all the same followups, but didn't take as long to happen, people would probably find it less annoying to play against. It's mostly just the feeling of helplessness after getting hit by it, knowing that you're stuck there until the pk fire ends - unless you somehow manage to SDI out, which seems to have *greatly* reduced effectiveness in this game. So you spam SDI, and it still doesn't help, further contributing to the frustration of getting hit by the move. I don't mind the guaranteed followups at all; it just puts you in a state of "not playing the game" for too long.

The solution, of course, is "don't get hit by pk fire." But it doesn't make it any less frustrating when it *does* happen.

 

[MG_3989]

Cool!

But its not even worth getting pissed about. I dealt with this a lot during smash 4, so all I'd say is "show me".
"PK Fire spam is cheap!"
Show me.
"Ness is an easy character to win with"
Show me.
"PK Fire is braindead"
Show me.

And they never do.

Exactly, it’s not like there’s people lining up to get their “brain dead” wins with Ness, I don’t know many Ness mains at all. Wolf’s laser is 10x more brain dead than PK Fire (nothing against Wolf I love Wolf) along with everything K Rool has and lots of other characters. It’s like people think of PK Fire as a Kirby brick or Pikachu thunderbolt or Inklings roller type of move

 

[MG_3989]

Imo, pk fire is only an annoying move because of how long it keeps you unable to do anything. If it had all the same followups, but didn't take as long to happen, people would probably find it less annoying to play against. It's mostly just the feeling of helplessness after getting hit by it, knowing that you're stuck there until the pk fire ends - unless you somehow manage to SDI out, which seems to have *greatly* reduced effectiveness in this game. So you spam SDI, and it still doesn't help, further contributing to the frustration of getting hit by the move. I don't mind the guaranteed followups at all; it just puts you in a state of "not playing the game" for too long.

The solution, of course, is "don't get hit by pk fire." But it doesn't make it any less frustrating when it *does* happen.

I definitely get this. It’s like getting buried or any mechanic like that. Depending on where PK Fire hits it still is pretty easy to DI out of, I literally never go for bat on them because it won’t hit. Plus PK Fire is a punishable move that Ness has to set up to hit. It has less endlag for Ness I’m Ultimate which makes some followups a little easier which may add to people’s annoyance but it’s not even one of Ness’s top 5 moves

 

[pollo20x620x6]

Imo, pk fire is only an annoying move because of how long it keeps you unable to do anything. If it had all the same followups, but didn't take as long to happen, people would probably find it less annoying to play against. It's mostly just the feeling of helplessness after getting hit by it, knowing that you're stuck there until the pk fire ends - unless you somehow manage to SDI out, which seems to have *greatly* reduced effectiveness in this game. So you spam SDI, and it still doesn't help, further contributing to the frustration of getting hit by the move. I don't mind the guaranteed followups at all; it just puts you in a state of "not playing the game" for too long.

The solution, of course, is "don't get hit by pk fire." But it doesn't make it any less frustrating when it *does* happen.

Youre only stuck when you jump on it. Whenever I get hit directly, I just hold away from it and I pop out. Or in game and watches case, up B gets you out immedietly.

Id argue pk fire got nerfed and its harder to follow up than it was in smash 4

 

[XxDiCaprioxX]

I would say, every Character that is abused for Spamming. A good Ness or Lucas is a nice Match, every Ness or Lucas spamming PK Fire - Grab or something like this, that is f*cking annyoing.
The same applies for: Samus, Dark Samus, Simon, Richter, Ridley

 

[Ghidorah14]

Exactly, it’s not like there’s people lining up to get their “brain dead” wins with Ness, I don’t know many Ness mains at all.

Because very few people actually like ness. He has a reputation for being annoying POS. You wont be winning hearts like a cpt. falcon or dedede would. It's a no-brainer (heh) why he's not very popular.

 

[pollo20x620x6]

Because very few people actually like ness. He has a reputation for being annoying POS. You wont be winning hearts like a cpt. falcon or dedede would. It's a no-brainer (heh) why he's not very popular.

That says more about the smash community than Ness...

 

[MG_3989]

I would say, every Character that is abused for Spamming. A good Ness or Lucas is a nice Match, every Ness or Lucas spamming PK Fire - Grab or something like this, that is f*cking annyoing.
The same applies for: Samus, Dark Samus, Simon, Richter, Ridley

This is 100% true. I’ve had some phenomenal and fun games against characters I usually consider annoying due to the player being good and using them well

 

[XxDiCaprioxX]

As a ZSS and Corrin main, K Rool is mostly an easy win for me. Juggling him and punishing his crown spam is so satisfying. So I don't mind him at all. But yeah, projectile spam is more annoying than ever. I do groan a little bit, if I have to play for the 100th time a Samus, Link, Dedede , Belmont or Snake, all basically using the same strategy. I can do fairly well against them, but sometimes even when I see a Boomerang, Gordo or Bomb coming I still tend to get hit by it. Lag messes up my timing, it gets even worse when I buffered an airdodge, because I pressed the shield button too late and fall to my demise like an Idiot. It's annoying but well, at least I get a good laugh of it when that happens.

Of course, everyone can play the way they like, but it is kinda sad, that quickplay mostly consists of heavies or zoners. I mean, the game has 70 characters after all. Characters that nobody uses like Rosalina, Duck Hunt and Greninja need some love too, you know.

Oh yeah that Feeling when you punish a Crown Throw or Cannon Shot (especially with a Down Air)

 

[Sean²]

If we're talking braindead characters now I'd like to toss Bowser into the mix. His range always catches people off-guard. And the armor he has is pretty great. Like "here let me charge my forward smash directly through your rapid jab and kill you at 60". I have to think way less as this character than I do any of the other ones I play. Nickel and dime damage all day and command grab to the top platform or uptilt juggle till dead. I can only imagine how frustrating this can be if you've never faced Bowser before.

In fact if anyone knows any truly braindead characters please point them my way, I love just playing on autopilot and winning for it

 

[Ghidorah14]

If we're talking braindead characters now I'd like to toss Bowser into the mix. His range always catches people off-guard. And the armor he has is pretty great. Like "here let me charge my forward smash directly through your rapid jab and kill you at 60". I have to think way less as this character than I do any of the other ones I play. Nickel and dime damage all day and command grab to the top platform or uptilt juggle till dead. I can only imagine how frustrating this can be if you've never faced Bowser before.

In fact if anyone knows any truly braindead characters please point them my way, I love just playing on autopilot and winning for it

K rool and ike spring to mind.

 

[Sucumbio]

What on Earthbound did I miss...

... Ok

XD

But yeah. We all chill now mehopes. Swear!

 

[HeraSwellow]

Approach from the air and throw more fire balls. F.L.U.D.D. off stage for cheap kills that are hilarious.

thanks for the advice! i use mario's fireballs a lot versus characters like K rool because they kinda just sheild and panic so i can just approach. I am guessing the same goes for mac.

 

[Oneiros5321]

Approach from the air and throw more fire balls. F.L.U.D.D. off stage for cheap kills that are hilarious.

It's actually surprising how much a quick uncharged F.L.U.D.D into short hop fair at the ledge works online =')

 

[FartyParty]

I'll start by saying that I have hated Pikachu with a passion since Smash 64. **** that stupid electric rat. And just when I didn't think it could get any worse, we get Pichu, who is now silly good and even more annoying that Pikachu. **** them both, and **** everyone who plays them. Hearing them say their names over and over and over and over in their annoying voices is the worst thing of all time. Plus they're really tiny and lightning fast so they're hard as **** to hit. And as far as Pikachu goes, I hate that it's been a good character in every smash game. Pikachu players have never known what it's like for their favorite character to be even mediocre. No. They've never had anything but a quality character who has never been anything worse than the low end of high tier. So **** Pikachu, **** Pichu, and **** all their mains.

With that out of the way, the most annoying characters for me in Quickplay are...
Megaman - not only is he a zoner, but for the life of me I just can't figure out a good strategy against him...even garbage Megamans tend to beat me
Ike - because he's ****ing easy mode and even if I kick his ass all over the place and rack up twice as much damage he only needs a few good hits to kill me
Rob - people who main Rob are almost universally better than me as Smash players so this is a matchup that I almost always lose and can't seem to get any better at yet
Snake - Becoming a less annoying lately, but that's just because I haven't faced any good ones recently. Those damn missiles are the most OP edge guard in the game and I hope they get nerfed to hell.

The characters who are basically impossible to edge guard:
Zelda
Palutena
Mewtwo
(I would add Meta Knight but I rarely encounter one)

And last but not least - Ness and Lucas. It annoys me that Ness's bat and Lucas's stick seem to have longer reach than Lucina's sword even though the sword is visually longer. And almost all their moves seem to have priority over mine.

 

[Momotsuki]

To actually answer the thread question instead of arguing about nonsense, for me it's Richter. He's not OP or anything, just extremely annoying. It almost seems like he's designed to be as unfun to fight as possible. Simon comes second but he doesn't bother me as much simply because I don't see him as much.

 

[leafgreen386]

To actually answer the thread question instead of arguing about nonsense, for me it's Richter. He's not OP or anything, just extremely annoying. It almost seems like he's designed to be as unfun to fight as possible. Simon comes second but he doesn't bother me as much simply because I don't see him as much.

They're literally the same character though.

 

[Momotsuki]

They're literally the same character though.

This is true, aside from Richter's Holy Water not setting off bombs and damaging Red Pikmin. But as Simon does not show up for me as much as Richter, he has not been able to inflict the most annoying upon me in total.