Countering (Projectile) Spam - Ultimate

[FartyParty]

I panic almost every time I have to fight or . These boys **** me up. It’s ridiculous too. My brother mained Pikachu in Brawl, and one of my best friends is a Pika main in Smash 4 and Ultimate. And yet I am still absolute *** at fighting him. Pichu is far worse though. Definitely responsible for a great number of my rage quits online.

Characters that are short, fast, and strong that like to pester are generally my weakness. andalso give me a pretty tough time.

can screw off too. I usually don’t have a huge issue with zoners. I can handle Samus, Links, Belmonts, Mega Man, etc. but that god forsaken slingshot is a nightmare for me. It’s so swift and so powerful and so difficult to punish. Not fun. Not fun at all.

Oh my god, so much yessssss to your comment about the damn Villager/Isabelle slingshot. The hit stun on that thing is absurd. With the right timing, they can interrupt literally any action you try against them, and the fact that they can go off stage and gimp your recovery with it and keep firing it mid-air until you've died and then still recover themselves from the edge of the blast zone makes it a nightmare. Literally the only projectile in the game that I might call broken.

 

[MacSmitty]

Maybe don't run up and attack him when there's a giant spiky ball over his head until you figure out how to properly space your attacks lmao

More often than not the situation I was complaining about happens when I'm recovering. I interrupt the attack and get hit by the ball, which essentially puts me back to the same position I was before, which leads me to ask, "Why am I getting punished for taking advantage of a enemy's vulnerable state?"

 

[Sudz]

"Why am I getting punished for taking advantage of a enemy's vulnerable state?"

This statement operates under the assumption that it IS a vulnerable state, which it obviously isn't if you're getting smacked for trying to take advantage of it. Quit treating it as such and you'll stop eating Ptooies

 

[Cheryl~]

: I really hate fighting against these two Links. (Toon Link gets the pass because nobody plays him online) Link’s wall of projectiles and his gigantic sword is incredibly tough to get past sometimes, and Battlefield doesn’t help either because he can just Up-Tilt you if you’re above him on a platform. His kill potential is also a pain sometimes, and the Bomb is just another piece of the Link is annoying pie. Young Link doesn’t have giant range or kill power but has crazy frame data and really damn good arrows, it feels like he can just rack up damage for free, although even against tough Young Links I can win because it takes a while for them to kill and I can edgeguard their recovery.

: they don’t do well when being combo’d or edgeguarded but otherwise you have to respect their wall and the axe is supremely annoying to try to avoid. Also Holy Water at the ledge is pretty annoying.

: Roller online is easily the most annoying part, but otherwise it’s the fact that their shifting from squid to kid makes it hard to land a hit on them at times and their aerials are really good. Also ink as a mechanic is kinda dumb but I can absorb the Splat Bombs with PSI Magnet so i guess it’s fine.

: Annoying frame data and does a ton of damage. Yoshi’s F-Air is probably the worst part, it has surprising range, can spike and kill at high percent, and doesn’t have much lag either. It’s probably a matchup I’ll learn to beat over time but right now, screw Yoshi.

: Marth. Marth is fine. But Lucina is a royal pain. Not only does she have sword range and a lot of easy damage, but she can kill really early if you’re not careful, and good Lucinas that edgeguard frequently are just the worst.



Other, less annoying characters but that are still annoying are ,,,(a lot of them aren’t good but you look the wrong way and get killed by a stray Dash Attack at 60 at the edge LOL), and .

EDIT: Snake is also a ***** when he mindgames you with C4 and a Nikita that kills at 80 for whatever reason. I can win against him but playing against him multiple times takes a toll on me.

 

[zblaqk]

Post who you think is the toughest to win with online and why!

My vote goes for Sheik, she NEEDS to be able to string combos together to get even meager damage. When you inevitably suffer from lag she becomes incredibly frustrating to play as because these comboes just don't work the way they should.

Offline however I think she is good.

 

[Xquirtle]

Pretty much anybody that relies on combo strings and tight kill confirms is nerfed online: Pichu, Squirtle, Sheik, Pika, Fox, Diddy seem to stick out

 

[IrohDW]

I think that the characters that struggle the most online are the fast characters due to lag. It is very difficult to move with precision when your inputs are delayed or dropped altogether. I also am having a hard time with Incineroar because of how easy it is for opponents to run away and camp him due to his outrageously slow run speed.

Heavies tend to do better because the lag makes it easier to hit with their strong, slow moves and get an early KO. They do get camped harder than everyone else, but that hasn't given me much trouble.

 

[TheKooladion]

Not sure what the hardest characters are to play online but worst worst characters to play against are characters that rely on projectiles like k rool and the belmonts. Especially when their connection is ass.

 

[IrohDW]

The Belmonts are not as good as most people think, especially online. Once you learn how to deal with their projectiles and how to edgeguard them, you can kill them at absurdly low percents. It took me awhile to get Simon into Elite Smash even though I am good at all aspects of the character, not just the projectiles. There are some matchups that they really struggle with because of their narrow whip range, laggy attacks, difficulty getting KOs without setups, and easily abused recovery.

If you struggle with the Belmonts I recommend playing as small, fast characters with great air games such as Jigglypuff, Pichu, Pikachu, or Fox. Even heavier characters such as Ridely can win against them if you know what you are doing. Especially since most Belmonts online have no idea what they are doing. They just projectile spam without knowing how to make full use of the character, and how to avoid getting gimped.

 

[Oneiros5321]

The Belmonts are not as good as most people think, especially online.

I think it's not that they're particularly good, it's mostly that they're frustrating and annoying to play against and for a lot of people, that can lead to getting impatient and making stupid mistakes. Especially the ones that tend to spam projectiles a bit too much.

The best to do in that case is to take some distance and breath (you'll have time to do that, most of them won't really know what to do as soon as you're out of range and will start approaching slowly just to be at the exact right distance...gives a bit of time to decompress and think about your next move =') )

 

[DelugeFGC]

The Belmonts are amazing, on and offline, don't let people who only know how to work with their B moves and underestimate the whip make you think otherwise. Most Belmonts online are bad Belmonts in my experience. They do excel in lag due to their neutral game / B moves and range, however. The ONLY thing holding them back is their trash tier recovery, but they have stage control, kill power and spacing in SPADES. Not top tier, but definitely high tier.

I main Shulk and Richter, and I have a far easier time with Richter if the match isn't going great connection-wise. Otherwise it's not much of an issue, there seems to be constant minor input-lag that you can never escape, so any character with extremely tight windows (Pichu, for example) on some of their combos can potentially get screwed. I can rely on Shulk's adaptability to get out of some wonky situations, but it's really just stalling and hoping the lag goes away.

I still use Shulk more often now because I like Shulk more.. but some characters definitely are both hurt and helped by the laggy conditions and wonky rulesets. You'll run into a LOT of matches where it's something like a Ridley spamming Side B on a 1 stock match.. all on a walkoff map or an autoscroller like PacLand. It's a mess.

 

[IrohDW]

I think it's not that they're particularly good, it's mostly that they're frustrating and annoying to play against and for a lot of people

I agree that they are annoying, especially if you are playing as a character who can't deal with their projectiles and range easily or if you aren't used to the matchup.

 

[DelugeFGC]

The most irritating aspect of the Belmonts isn't even the B moves / projectiles, they can keep you spaced with their whip for days if the player knows how to land the more-precise hitboxes on Vampire Killer. Diagonal aerials are a dream when learned right. Most players don't take any time to learn their combos and setups and simply spam B because their projectiles are all very good. Cross beats out Link's boomerang in every department, even how fast it comes out. The axe is a wonderful zoning tool, huge, beats out a lot of moves AND has kill power at high percents. Holy water is a literal kill confirm if landed at higher percents if the opponent isn't at a good angle to DI out of it. A good Simon / Richter player will not make their use of these projectiles extremely easy to read and will do most of their damage with their whip, instead relying on the projectiles to space people out, force reactions they can punish and to finish the job if things go off the ledge. Their grab range is helped a bit by the roll cancel grab tech as well, I recommend learning this PERIOD, regardless of what character you play but ESPECIALLY on those with poor grab range or characters who can use this tech for some nasty setups like Pichu.

But there definitely are a TON of Belmonts hopping on quickplay and mashing B, hoping it carries them to victory. Evidently it sometimes works.

 

[Sean²]

Snake - inability to taunt in quickplay = no hype box gimps.

 

[DelugeFGC]

Snake - inability to taunt in quickplay = no hype box gimps.

This screws a lot of characters. They really ruined online in this game, man. How am I supposed to Down Taunt people off the ledge with Luigi? How am I supposed to tell my opponent I want him to show me his moves as Captain Falcon? How am I supposed to be extra disrespectful as Ganon after I Warlock Punch him into the blast zone?

 

[Baddest bih]

Why hasn’t nobody said oilmar? Most his attacks are long and disjointed even worse than sword characters and the piknim doing damage to you constantly is irritating

 

[NGW]

The ones that you already know what to expect, the ones you know you're probably not going to enjoy the match with, stuff like that.

I mean things like...

Ness and Lucas, you already know it's going to be PK Fire, PK Fire, PK Fire, PK Freeze, PK Freeze, etc. The same basic combos and few moves, etc.
Fox, Falco, animu swordsmen are most likely going to be leagues better than you and/or play like complete tryhards, etc. Usually the kind to dashdance after every KO.

 

[~?~]

Mii gunner because 99% of them super lag

 

[FartyParty]

Mii gunner because 99% of them super lag

We played one time!!!! I actually gave you props in the thread https://smashboards.com/threads/official-ultimate-“who-was-that-”-player-finder-thread.466905/

I wasn't a mii gunner though lol. Lucina.

 

[Buuhan]

I’m not sure, maybe fiend deedees that camp by ledge.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

: Nair the character. Honestly just kind of annoying due to them never actually trying to poke at people without nair. Granted Ike's aerials are kinds dumb right now, but the point still stands. Not too much of a challenge but still annoying. Expect them to get tilted very easily since they think they are honest for some reason.

: I play a ton of K Rool, hes one of my mains. But damn, people be pretty bad with him online. No edgeguarding at all. Going for bad d tilts for no reason. Not using f tilt and nair armor in a pinch. Expect these guys to flowchart 90% of the time and get super mad when you bair them into the stage because they never mix up their recovery. This one is more I play the character and hate seeing them bad.

: Similar to K Rool but worse. 3/4 times you get a campy samus who only tries to go for charge shot, missiles, and grabs. Lets ignore the fact that samus has plenty of good buttons and can edgeguard decently well, her nair is super good, and you have to actually snuff approaches more than charge shot into shield into grab. The actually not bad Samus mains are tons of fun to play against, mad respect for them.

: Saw that one ZeRo vid and tries to go for dumb stuff with Up B and Tornado. Usually flowcharts hard. The moment they start losing bad they get so tilted its not even fun.

: Ness can be good, his mains online are not. They go for the same PK Fire spam, attempts at PK Thunder juggles, fish hard for back throws, etc. I played like three actually decent Ness mains who did not go for braindead stuff, who actually mixed up recoveries.

: I hate this character. Stupid dumb frame data, survivability, and damage output. Low key my most hated character in the game. Everything about him makes me mad. Eggs are dumb, nair is dumb. Lowkey a super dumb character rn especially online.

: Thinks they are way better than they actually are. Goes for dumb smash attacks and dairs which only work like 33% of the time. Expect them to teabag at least once. Easy prey if you know how your character works though.

: Loves to spam Blaster, kind of coasts of how good that move is. I actually play wolf so seeing these guys go for bad smashes and poor recovery options makes me nettled.

: Unlike most of the characters so far these guys usually are pretty good. Worst case scenario they are too F Smash happy. Usually pretty good at their combos and super stylish. I just don't like losing to them lol. Doesn't help my mains rn () all all combo food.

: I encounter a high amount of FG tier little macs still. It is kinda sad. Generally it is not in elite when I am messing around with non elite characters, but they all do the same things and bore me. The one little mac i played that was decent actually spaced with tilts and was kinda scary until he got in disadvantage, but every other one was kinda bad.

: I hate Ptooie. That is pretty much it tbh. Most of their moves are ok and they do not have much BS otherwise. Most mains are alright, reasonably respectable people.

 

[Deleted member]

Ganondorf Richter and Ridley

 

[MG_3989]

: Nair the character. Honestly just kind of annoying due to them never actually trying to poke at people without nair. Granted Ike's aerials are kinds dumb right now, but the point still stands. Not too much of a challenge but still annoying. Expect them to get tilted very easily since they think they are honest for some reason.

: I play a ton of K Rool, hes one of my mains. But damn, people be pretty bad with him online. No edgeguarding at all. Going for bad d tilts for no reason. Not using f tilt and nair armor in a pinch. Expect these guys to flowchart 90% of the time and get super mad when you bair them into the stage because they never mix up their recovery. This one is more I play the character and hate seeing them bad.

: Similar to K Rool but worse. 3/4 times you get a campy samus who only tries to go for charge shot, missiles, and grabs. Lets ignore the fact that samus has plenty of good buttons and can edgeguard decently well, her nair is super good, and you have to actually snuff approaches more than charge shot into shield into grab. The actually not bad Samus mains are tons of fun to play against, mad respect for them.

: Saw that one ZeRo vid and tries to go for dumb stuff with Up B and Tornado. Usually flowcharts hard. The moment they start losing bad they get so tilted its not even fun.

: Ness can be good, his mains online are not. They go for the same PK Fire spam, attempts at PK Thunder juggles, fish hard for back throws, etc. I played like three actually decent Ness mains who did not go for braindead stuff, who actually mixed up recoveries.

: I hate this character. Stupid dumb frame data, survivability, and damage output. Low key my most hated character in the game. Everything about him makes me mad. Eggs are dumb, nair is dumb. Lowkey a super dumb character rn especially online.

: Thinks they are way better than they actually are. Goes for dumb smash attacks and dairs which only work like 33% of the time. Expect them to teabag at least once. Easy prey if you know how your character works though.

: Loves to spam Blaster, kind of coasts of how good that move is. I actually play wolf so seeing these guys go for bad smashes and poor recovery options makes me nettled.

: Unlike most of the characters so far these guys usually are pretty good. Worst case scenario they are too F Smash happy. Usually pretty good at their combos and super stylish. I just don't like losing to them lol. Doesn't help my mains rn () all all combo food.

: I encounter a high amount of FG tier little macs still. It is kinda sad. Generally it is not in elite when I am messing around with non elite characters, but they all do the same things and bore me. The one little mac i played that was decent actually spaced with tilts and was kinda scary until he got in disadvantage, but every other one was kinda bad.

: I hate Ptooie. That is pretty much it tbh. Most of their moves are ok and they do not have much BS otherwise. Most mains are alright, reasonably respectable people.

PK Thunder juggles are a legit strategy against some opponents, the other two I agree with you on. I’ve also played very few good Ness mains online

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Whenever I'm playing on Quickplay and the opponent has at least 1 projectile, they will spam it.
Even if I'm clearly shielding it, even if it's not hitting me, even if I'm reflecting it back and they're getting hit by they're own move, they will still spam it.

Not mention there's over 70+ characters and I fight against maybe 10 of them on average. Mainly
People in my area must love spamming.

 

[MG_3989]

The ones that you already know what to expect, the ones you know you're probably not going to enjoy the match with, stuff like that.

I mean things like...

Ness and Lucas, you already know it's going to be PK Fire, PK Fire, PK Fire, PK Freeze, PK Freeze, etc. The same basic combos and few moves, etc.
Fox, Falco, animu swordsmen are most likely going to be leagues better than you and/or play like complete tryhards, etc. Usually the kind to dashdance after every KO.

Isn’t the point of the game to win? The term tryhard is so dumb

 

[Coolboy]

if i play a 4 players/3 players match and a is in it..it always end up in me having to fight him..that pain in the ass almost never dies first nor second -.- and the thing i noticed lately is all of a sudden that Ganondorf players really like to teabag...like ok...why?! and why only with him? o.o not that it bothers me but still find it odd...

 

[Cracke]

just people who are better than me

 

[Fugg:D]

For me it’s always the flavor of the week character. Whenever a video gets made about a 0 to death or an infinite combo gets made, it seems everyone tries to make them their new main or use it to bring up their GSP. It’s even worse when I want to try out new characters and bring their ranks up, but I can’t get any good fights in because once you get passed their one trick, they can’t do anything and if they do beat you there isn’t a rematch.

 

[Soul187666]

Pichu needs a nerf. Seriously, ever seen 3.6mil-3.9mil Pichu players?
They use Pichu perfectly, nasty combos where even a spike at 65%-80% can get rid of you.

 

[Sean²]

Pichu needs a nerf. Seriously, ever seen 3.6mil-3.9mil Pichu players?
They use Pichu perfectly, nasty combos where even a spike at 65%-80% can get rid of you.

You can also kill Pichu at 40-50% with an uncharged smash from the middle of the stage lol

He doesn't need a nerf at all

 

[Diddy Kong]

Pretty much anybody that relies on combo strings and tight kill confirms is nerfed online: Pichu, Squirtle, Sheik, Pika, Fox, Diddy seem to stick out

This honestly!

 

[Xquirtle]

Pichu needs a nerf. Seriously, ever seen 3.6mil-3.9mil Pichu players?
They use Pichu perfectly, nasty combos where even a spike at 65%-80% can get rid of you.

Idk, hes not easy to play. People playing him well and not randomly dying to stray hits have put in the work.

 

[Soul187666]

You can also kill Pichu at 40-50% with an uncharged smash from the middle of the stage lol

He doesn't need a nerf at all

Maybe it's the matchup? Pichu still has godly speed and the attacks do a hefty amount of damage.
I main Lucas btw.
PK Freeze is kind of useless in cqc.

The Pichu's I've encountered are trigger happy when it comes to: b-air, u-tilt, d-special, d-air.
I can't break their chain.

 

[DelugeFGC]

Pichu needs a nerf. Seriously, ever seen 3.6mil-3.9mil Pichu players?
They use Pichu perfectly, nasty combos where even a spike at 65%-80% can get rid of you.

I can take my 3.7M C. Falcon and take you from 15% to dead in a DThrow combo of NAirs that leads to a FAir or a Grab that I get you offstage with (which THEN leads to your death) very consistently. I'm by no means the best Falcon player in the world, nor is Falcon OP. It's just a matter of some higher tier characters being VERY good when you know how to use them. The matches I win don't tend to end in my opponent saying "Man Falcon needs nerfed". Same with Pichu. The only time a character NEEDS to be nerfed is when they consistently placed top 8 at every tournament you can find, not having a bad matchup in sight.

That's why they're high tier, y'know.

 

[Soul187666]

I can take my 3.7M C. Falcon and take you from 15% to dead in a DThrow combo of NAirs that leads to a FAir or a Grab that I get you offstage with (which THEN leads to your death) very consistently. I'm by no means the best Falcon player in the world, nor is Falcon OP. It's just a matter of some higher tier characters being VERY good when you know how to use them. The matches I win don't tend to end in my opponent saying "Man Falcon needs nerfed". Same with Pichu. The only time a character NEEDS to be nerfed is when they consistently placed top 8 at every tournament you can find, not having a bad matchup in sight.

That's why they're high tier, y'know.

Hmm...I main Lucas who isn't high tier but can kick some serious rear.
Anyways, they often try to use this combo alot: U-Tilt, U-Tilt, B-Air, U-Tilt, B-Air, U-Tilt, U-Tilt; D-Special, D-Air; they might also mix it up a bit after a few U-Tilts and B-Air.
I figured I should then make the Pichu combos my own after studying replays so as to have Pichu as my secondary.
So far assimilation of the Pichu Combo Set is going smoothly for me in Training, I'm seeing why Pichu is pretty amazing.

 

[Sean²]

Maybe it's the matchup? Pichu still has godly speed and the attacks do a hefty amount of damage.
I main Lucas btw.
PK Freeze is kind of useless in cqc.

The Pichu's I've encountered are trigger happy when it comes to: b-air, u-tilt, d-special, d-air.
I can't break their chain.

Don’t get me wrong, Pichu is a top tier character for sure. Those lightning loop combos are his bread and butter, and can be super annoying. He’s not easy to gimp offstage, either. Luckily Lucas has a tool that most other characters would love to have for edgeguarding - dsmash. I use Lucas as a secondary. Though I’m not super experienced in the Lucas-Pichu matchup, PK spam doesn’t work all that well because of how small he is. Maybe force risky options from him with PK Fire here and there, but that’s all I can think of. It’s better to go with normals/Zair, run away, scare him off thunder jolt with magnet, then edgeguard with dsmash. He either gets hit and dies super early or is forced to take a riskier option.

Not saying it’s gonna be easy to get him in that situation, but he’s not unbeatable by any means. Nerfs should be restricted to unbeatable/unrelentingly dominant characters/tactics or tactics that create long periods of zero player interaction.

I will say, if people are doing lightning loops online though, I wouldn’t doubt that Nintendo will do something about it. It will be in the patch notes like “Pichu - Back Air Attack - adjusted knockback so hits connect more reliably” or whatever their verbiage was before.

 

[DelugeFGC]

Pichu is strong, but I wouldn't call Pichu top tier. Pichu dies far too early and far too easily, also has a few matchups where Pichu is at a serious disadvantage. Higher up into high tier for sure, but I can't say Pichu is top tier.. any character that consistently dies to aerials and tilts under 100% that has some bad matchups simply doesn't have the juice.

I caught a Pichu at roughly 7% on the side (not the edge, just the side) of the stage with the tip of Ike's FSmash and kill sparks flew, he died. The match ended there. I know Ike has a strong FSmash, but an uncharged FSmash killing at 7% is a sure sign of a glass cannon. Pichu can do a LOT of damage and has combo strings that can go on for a very long time if you don't DI out or use a panic move / combo breaker, but Pichu can also die the second he spawns.. so I'd say he's in a fine place.

Also, if you can predict Pichu's recovery he doesn't have a ton of options to reliably get back on stage, which will lead to him trying something like Side Bing onto stage if you punish it right.. which itself is EXTREMELY punishable and will likely be the thing that kills Pichu if you condition it and bait it out off the edge, letting him land with it (thus dealing with that move's laggy end) and hitting him with any number of kill moves. I don't find him extremely hard to spike with characters like Cloud that have a FAir spike, either.

Pichu also doesn't do well against defensive turtle strats with characters like Link, Samus and Snake. If you wall him out and don't let him rack up damage with long strings, the combination of him trying to attack you (which damages him) and eating the occasional hit from you will get Pichu into a bad spot quickly.

The best way, in my experience, of dealing with Pichu however.. is Pichu. A lot of Pichu players will end up overextending themselves very quickly if you play patiently online, giving me a window to grab them (which I've already explained how far you can take with characters like Falcon) which a lot of times, esp. for Pichu, ends up being the end of that stock. Pichu falls apart, if he ever does such a thing, against a smart / creative punish game. As long as you know your character's options and follow ups, most Pichu players will simply hand you an opening when they inevitably get impatient from you playing safely.

In my eyes, 'top tier' means the character doesn't really have any bad matchups and there isn't anything in particular that the character struggles against combined with that character having things such as good frame data, combos, options, etc. Pichu has one half of this equation, but when it comes to matchups or certain strats, Pichu definitely struggles in some areas. So top tier? No. Very far into high tier? Definitely. I think Pikachu is a better character overall, though. Pikachu survives longer, has a lot of the same options and doesn't trade with nearly every attack he does due to self-damaging attacks.

 

[Jaro235]

Of the characters I used, Sheik is the most difficult because she already struggles to kill. The online lag that makes combos hard to pull off only make her inability to kill even worse.

 

[Jaro235]

I am so tired of fighting this stupid cat. His attacks seem to land from a mile away, his moves do ridiculous damage, especially with revenge, his moves kill at low percentage, and he just doesn’t die! I struggle with Incineroar more than I do with most top tiers and other heavies. He is the one character that I struggle to beat.

Please stop spamming side B.

I love Yoshi and I even main him, but he is pretty obnoxious to fight. I don’t fight him often, but when I do, I struggle like crazy. He is still my boy though.

Why am I being grabbed from so far away? Why does Up Throw kill at such an early percent? Why is he such a small target? Olimar is lowkey my most hated character in the game. He is annoying to fight, he is boring to play as, and he is tedious to watch. Thankfully, I haven’t seen that many Olimar players and hopefully it stays that way. (No offense to Olimar mains)

Not even that difficult to fight, but just tedious. Side B to Neutral B, super armor, and just when you think you have him, he throws out his dumb counter. Again, not super difficult to go against, but very monotonous and dull.

Sometimes. There are good Dedede players, but almost every Dedede feels the need to go on the other side of the stage and spam gordos. They also try to neutral b you off the stage. Not all Dedede players are that annoying, but the campy ones most definitely are.

Belmont players love the B button. I play as Simon and although I have some bad habits with him, I try to mix up my moves with him. Most Belmont players online do nothing but spam projectiles. I don’t find them that difficult to deal with, but they are very obnoxious to face.

Again, only spam happy players who do nothing but use PK moves. Me and my friend fought a Ness and a Lucas in Co-op mode and it was one of the most unfun experiences I have ever had in Smash. The definition of the word camp. Not all Ness or Lucas mains are that bad, but I still cringe when I see one of them as my opponent.

Super campy, hits harder than you would expect, and even when you get to her, she still comes out with a move before you do. Also, I hate dealing with her f-air. So irritating!

A good Wolf is scary to face. He is powerful and fast at the same time. Great combo game and plenty of kill moves? They are pretty scary. His spacing and projectile also make him potentially very annoying to go up against. Also, he has a down throw to side B spike combo that spells doom. Charming indeed.

 

[AzureAura]

I don't have a problem with them offline just the added delay and lag sometimes online just makes fighting them really unfun imo