Countering (Projectile) Spam - Ultimate

HotChocolate

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#1
I got on this morning to try and just play some good old online in Smash Ultimate with Jigglypuff, and after 10 games I just stopped. Every single match I played I met either a wolf, a link, a zelda, or a samus, and all of them would spam projectiles. As a puff main, it Is really hard to try and approach and punish rolls because im so airy, and since they just roll/run away and spam projectiles until im at 200% and able to lose a stock to any atatck! How can I counter it, specifically as Puff, as they just keep me in the air with their projectiles and roll on approach (the new rolling nerf doesnt seem to change anything for projectile/roll spammers from Smash 4)...
 

REZERO

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#4
I would change the stages to something with platforms to give you more leeway. You can punish projectile spam by guarding on the platforms and get closer to the player.
 

Sean²

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#5
I would change the stages to something with platforms to give you more leeway. You can punish projectile spam by guarding on the platforms and get closer to the player.
This - probably. I see a lot of people still trying to roll with the 2 stock, 5 minute, Omega stages only format. Switch it to battlefield stages and it should be easier to escape
 

Phillyfanboy

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#6
Hi Hot Chocolate, maybe try asking this question in the Jiggypuff thread to see how other puff mains are getting around this.

That said. I'm no puff main, but the short hop fair that puff has is very good for rush down, so it might be critical for you to stay close to your opponent and pressure them with puffs air game. Stay tight and look to punish/teach chase rolls and back rolls.
 
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LightLV

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#8
I got on this morning to try and just play some good old online in Smash Ultimate with Jigglypuff, and after 10 games I just stopped. Every single match I played I met either a wolf, a link, a zelda, or a samus, and all of them would spam projectiles. As a puff main, it Is really hard to try and approach and punish rolls because im so airy, and since they just roll/run away and spam projectiles until im at 200% and able to lose a stock to any atatck! How can I counter it, specifically as Puff, as they just keep me in the air with their projectiles and roll on approach (the new rolling nerf doesnt seem to change anything for projectile/roll spammers from Smash 4)...
You just have to respect the projectiles. And don't get into the habit of just holding forward and running face first into them because it just doesn't work.

The rolling nerf absolutely matters. What's probably happening is that your method of attacking once you finally get in is just too predictable.

Also, as someone who plays Zelda, Samus, and Link alot when im bored (lol) it's really easy to tell when someone's just mindlessly charging in and getting pelted with projectiles because they've gotten frustrated. learn when to chill. Sometimes you have to feel out your opponent and see how patient they are.

you don't notice when its happening, but alot of the time people just fall into a really predictable pattern once they're angry because they literally stop playing with their head. You're just thinking about how annoying the projectiles are, while i'm just sitting here wondering why the hell you keep running into all of them.

Once Jigglypuff gets in, she should cause alot of trouble because of how crazy her pressure is.
 
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Vyden

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#9
Me and my brother went online in the past week and ran into some rather frustrating people. Its the people who spam specials or use a character just for the range but don't actually play the character. We ran into one game where a Palutena just spammed her fire skill with a cloud spamming his blade beam. We beat them but its just frustrating facing bottom barrel laziness over actually learning a character. I guess people are afraid to play the game which is dissapointing
 

Crucible

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#10
Although I agree, it is a playstyle Nintendo knowingly put into the game so you can’t ewally blame people for using it :/ also don’t think this really needed a thread lol
 
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#12
Yes that does get annoying...visit the friend code thread on here to get more reliable challengers. A lot of good people to play with. My friend code is under my avatar. :)
 

Luigifan18

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#14
Be glad you’re dealing with that and not the taunt parties. Those were absolute garbage that plagued brawl and 4’s ffas
The worst part is because people couldn't taunt online responsibly, now we can't taunt online at all.
 

Vyden

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#15
Although I agree, it is a playstyle Nintendo knowingly put into the game so you can’t ewally blame people for using it :/ also don’t think this really needed a thread lol
ooof luckily idc because scrolling past soemthing is an option
 

Aouzy

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#17
You just gotta learn what people like to spam with certain characters and then counter it. Try to make them realize their shtick isn't working and actually try something else.
 
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#18
Not really much you can do with Puff other than jump and work your way in. If it's getting you that on tilt, I don't know what else to say other than change characters. People are gonna 'spam.' Characters like Duck Hunt and Villagers are designed to zone until you either die or throw the controller in frustration.
 

Sucumbio

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#19
Even if you're at opposite ends of an omega stage you begin moving toward them and can perfect shield the projectile and while they're in cool down close the distance. It takes practice obviously, lots of practice, and definitely harder against characters with multiple projectiles (links or Simon especially due to vertical cross ups) but it in no way means jiggs is unviable, because at closer range they're wide open when they miss or of you block well.
 

shboke

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#20
Platforms and ducking are very important, try to get used to the parry mechanic but dont rely on it, it sucks that Perfect shields were taken away because it gave every character a chance to counter it. Try and see which projectiles puff can clash with, her nair and fair should be good against a decent amount of projectiles.

Also go to the puff section and find a puff discord, it could help immensely
 

FartyParty

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#21
One of the biggest things that's been helping me against projectile spammers is practicing the neutral dodge. Much less lag than roll dodge so you can frequently get in a little movement after the dodge and before the next projectile. Works great against single projectile spammers like Wolf or Villager, but less so against someone like Simon or Link with multiple projectiles.
 
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Chrollolith

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#22
I feel that. I'm maining Cloud, and it's kinda frustrating to face a spamer, principaly belmont brothers.
When i play my second, pichu, it's easier, because of the matchup, and i think in tournament i just need to switch character, but that's not the problem, the problem is that i wanna improve my cloud and i can't just cause of these 90% of players playing spam characters.

So i can understand what you feel, i can just suggest you to find another second who you can beat zoning characters with, and try to train your puff in online rooms or something, to kick spam characters or whatever.
 
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#23
Patience! You’ve got to learn to be patient! Don’t rush in as soon as possible. Try waiting for them to do something predictable. Sometimes the best course of action is to out-lame your opponent. Dodge their spam and teabag! Frustrate them and make them think “ugh why can’t I hit you?!”
 

LightLV

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#24
With the Belmonts, just don't get so over eager to hit them once you get close to them.

like 90% of Belmonts use the leaping downtilt to get out of tight situations once you break through their projectile defenses.

Punish the stupid ones who run at you and dash attack when they're feeling cheeky.

And also remember...no matter how bad they're beating you, you only really need to knock them off like once to take a stock. Their recovery is so bad that it only really takes one screw up for them to not come back
 
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MG_3989

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#25
Let’s say rulesets are normal and no weird stages with low time. Personally I think the most annoying characters to run into are a good Snake, the Belmonts (not because they’re difficult, their spam is just annoying), Ridley when all they do is the command grab and fire balls, and spammy K Rools. Basically anything that spans over and over again and any zoners are annoying. What do you guys think?
 

leafgreen386

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#26
Congratulations, you learned how the zoner archetype works. Zoners win by annoying you with projectiles, which entices you to make more mistakes that they can in turn punish. The more annoyed someone is, the more likely they are to lose their cool and just try blindly rushing in, at which point the zoner has completely and utterly won, as such approaches are usually very linear and easy to punish.

By definition, the most annoying characters to face will always be zoners. Otherwise, they're not very good at their job.
 
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MG_3989

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#27
Congratulations, you learned how the zoner archetype works. Zoners win by annoying you with projectiles, which entices you to make more mistakes that they can in turn punish. The more annoyed someone is, the more likely they are to lose their cool and just try blindly rushing in, at which point the zoner has completely and utterly won, as such approaches are usually very linear and easy to punish.

By definition, the most annoying characters to face will always be zoners. Otherwise, they're not very good at their job.
I mean I know that, it’s just a really annoying archetype for me to fight. I just wanted to see who other people personally hated seeing online
 

Oneiros5321

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#28
Other than zoning character spamming projectiles, I don't think there's anyone really annoying.
One character that often gives me a hard time online as Mario is Chrom. Not that I think he's OP or anything, I just don't quite know how to punish his attacks yet. So not really annoying, mostly something to learn.
 

Sean²

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#29
Extreme zoners in general are annoying but something about getting stuck on an Omega stage against one of the Links is the worst. Especially if they're good at the zoning aspect. Main reason I prefer Battlefield stages for the most part.
 

Sari

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#30
I really hate fighting :ultkingdedede:'s since almost all of them just fly around and use gordo. They're usually not hard to beat but fighting them is just so monotonous.
 
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#31
Lemme look at the roster real quick to find some annoying characters...

:ultlink::ultyounglink::ulttoonlink: Projectile spamming idiots who sometimes use standard attacks.
:ultsamus::ultdarksamus: Projectile spamming idiots who never use standard attacks.
:ultfox: Only if the player came straight from Melee.
:ultpikachu::ultpichu: Shocking, (pun intended) but these two are very strong, and might need nerfs. Very hard to hit due to fast speed, and attacks will stun with very little startup lag.
:ultness: PK FIRE! PK FIRE! PK FIRE! Usually comes with a grab right after, and a lot of his standard attacks come out pretty quickly with some range. Lucas is easier to deal with in my opinion.
(Ness is pretty annoying in all Smash games TBH)
:ultchrom: Too fast, hits too hard, has Ike's up B for some reason. Enough said.
:ultmetaknight: Never ever has a hard time recovering. Also has really fast attacks.
:ultsnake: Grenade spam and C4 can be a little annoying, but it's not too bad. His playstyle was designed to be tricky unlike most projectile spammers.
:ultpokemontrainer: Squirtle is mildly annoying and fast, and Ivysaur has weird smash attacks with a really good air game. Bad recovery tho. Charizard isn't really annoying, outside of the off chance it lands Flare Blitz.
:ultwolf:Spammy projectile that stuns. Other than that, he's not very annoying.
:ultvillager:Slingshot spamming idiot. Just, stop. Also Gyroid spam, dash attack, and the bowling ball!
:ultinkling: Ink is really annoying. Roller buries for too long, and smash attacks come out really fast with a small window of reaction time.
:ultsimon::ultrichter: Projectile spamming idiots that rarely use standard attacks outside of F Smash. Not as fun to play as I was expecting.
:ultkrool:Super armor on almost every attack, blunderbuss packs a huge punch and easily succeeds at edgeguarding, crown toss doesn't get stopped by shields, and a recovery that rarely fails. Also D-Tilt and D-Throw bury. Yay!
He is a ton of fun to play, but he probably needs some nerfs.
:ultisabelle: Slingshot spam and fishing rod spam is obnoxious. Also dash attack.
:ultmiifighters::4miigun:Samus clone that spams projectiles.

If I missed any, I'll add them here, but here you go. Most of these characters are actually pretty balanced, but I just find them annoying to fight. Only a few that I find overpowered.
 
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Dilan Omer

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#32
Let’s say rulesets are normal and no weird stages with low time. Personally I think the most annoying characters to run into are a good Snake, the Belmonts (not because they’re difficult, their spam is just annoying), Ridley when all they do is the command grab and fire balls, and spammy K Rools. Basically anything that spans over and over again and any zoners are annoying. What do you guys think?
Ness players deadass. Eat more glue than K Rool.

Lemme look at the roster real quick to find some annoying characters...

:ultlink::ultyounglink::ulttoonlink: Projectile spamming idiots who sometimes use standard attacks.
:ultsamus::ultdarksamus: Projectile spamming idiots who never use standard attacks.
:ultfox: Only if the player came straight from Melee.
:ultpikachu::ultpichu: Shocking, (pun intended) but these two are very strong, and might need nerfs. Very hard to hit due to fast speed, and attacks will stun with very little startup lag.
:ultness: PK FIRE! PK FIRE! PK FIRE! Usually comes with a grab right after, and a lot of his standard attacks come out pretty quickly with some range. Lucas is easier to deal with in my opinion.
(Ness is pretty annoying in all Smash games TBH)
:ultchrom: Too fast, hits too hard, has Ike's up B for some reason. Enough said.
:ultmetaknight: Never ever has a hard time recovering. Also has really fast attacks.
:ultsnake: Grenade spam and C4 can be a little annoying, but it's not too bad. His playstyle was designed to be tricky unlike most projectile spammers.
:ultpokemontrainer: Squirtle is mildly annoying and fast, and Ivysaur has weird smash attacks with a really good air game. Bad recovery tho. Charizard isn't really annoying, outside of the off chance it lands Flare Blitz.
:ultwolf:Spammy projectile that stuns. Other than that, he's not very annoying.
:ultvillager:Slingshot spamming idiot. Just, stop. Also Gyroid spam, dash attack, and the bowling ball!
:ultinkling: Ink is really annoying. Roller buries for too long, and smash attacks come out really fast with a small window of reaction time.
:ultsimon::ultrichter: Projectile spamming idiots that rarely use standard attacks outside of F Smash. Not as fun to play as I was expecting.
:ultkrool:Super armor on almost every attack, blunderbuss packs a huge punch and easily succeeds at edgeguarding, crown toss doesn't get stopped by shields, and a recovery that rarely fails. Also D-Tilt and D-Throw bury. Yay!
He is a ton of fun to play, but he probably needs some nerfs.
:ultisabelle: Slingshot spam and fishing rod spam is obnoxious. Also dash attack.
:ultmiifighters::4miigun:Samus clone that spams projectiles.

If I missed any, I'll add them here, but here you go. Most of these characters are actually pretty balanced, but I just find them annoying to fight. Only a few that I find overpowered.
Only legit braindead character in there is Chrom. The others are fine (besides Ness)
 
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#33
Ness is so damn braindead. They don’t even have to be good to be irritating. Just fish for pk fire confirms and congrats, you’re a ness main.

That said, pikachu and pichu may actually be worse because, depending on the matchup, they’re likely to spend most of the fight ping ponging you to either end of the stage and generally just be relentlessly aggressive. Wouldn’t be surprised, or lose any sleep, if they got nerfed TBH.
 
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MrM

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#34
Easily K Rool
Ridley is annoying with the fireballs
Ness is Ness
Anyone with a sword
 

Mental Surge

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#35
every projectile spammer. Idk what this game's obsession is with projectile spamming. DH is the absolute worst though. Samus and mii gunner are horrible as well. Also Pichu is broken as ****. I cant wait for that bull**** character to get nerfed. Idk how anyone can look at Pichu and not think he is overpowered. Pikachu isnt much better.
 
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Diddy Kong

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#36
:ultinkling: takes the cake here! I get annoyed by them badly. They catch you off guard all the time, and force you too much to adapt to them. Force you out of your comfortzone, which makes you prone to mistakes which they capitalize on. In general, they are my least liked characters fighting against. Just plain annoying.
 

Uffe

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#37
:ultisabelle::ultvillager: - I hate dealing with fair/bair. I hate the Fishing Rod as well.
:ultkingdedede: - It's Gordo galore with these guys. They jump a lot, they like to use Inhale very often, and while I havne't had too much of an issue with them, they're just really annoying.
:ultyounglink::ulttoonlink::ultlink: - I wish all of their arrows were Meleefied. They'd then have to actually charge their arrows so that it goes somewhere, and arrow spam would be brought to a minimum. Boomerang is very annoying, but I think I may have found a counter to that kind of spamming.
:ultluigi: - Dash attack appears really safe and useful for him in this game. They try to do their 0 to death combo shenanigans as well.
:ultmarth::ultlucina: - I hate their range, and that they can counter me offstage. I actually don't mind fighting them, though, despite it being a really bad MU.
:ultolimar: - Pikmin spam. Ness' PSI Magnet kills Pikmin that latch to him in case anybody wanted to know how to deal with that sort of spam.
:ultpalutena: - Her aerials are really good. I suspect projectile like Autoreticle and Explosive Flame from her, especially offstage. Fortunately, PSI Magnet comes in handy.
:ultpichu: - He's hard to hit, and I hate that he's got combos that can lead into instant death.
:ultpit::ultdarkpit: - Their swords have been heavily buffed, and they can spam arrows like nothing. Very annoying to deal with. Their smash attacks are very quick and have a lot of power. I don't like dealing with these guys.
:ultshulk: - The match against him feels one-sided at times. Being able to switch on the fly really makes him difficult to deal with, and his sword is really long.
:ultsimon::ultrichter: - Obviously their projectile game and whip range. Plus, the two I've come across never gave me another chance for redemption. How am I supposed to learn this MU if you're going to leave?
:ultyoshi: - This character has waaay too much safe options. His aerial mobility is probably the best in the game, his second jump doesn't leave him open. His attacks are really strong, and I have to out-camp him in order to get anywhere. Maybe I just don't have very much experience against this character. Maybe it's easier for Ness. I don't really know, though.
:ultzelda: - Runs off and hides behind her Phantom Knight. Anytime I land any attacks, her Nayru's Love just dismisses them.
:ultzss: - She loves to play cat and mouse. She's not a bad character like some people were saying.
 
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#38
Let’s say rulesets are normal and no weird stages with low time. Personally I think the most annoying characters to run into are a good Snake, the Belmonts (not because they’re difficult, their spam is just annoying), Ridley when all they do is the command grab and fire balls, and spammy K Rools. Basically anything that spans over and over again and any zoners are annoying. What do you guys think?
You're a Ness main and you're annoyed by Ridley mindlessly spamming fireballs? Something doesn't seem quite right there.
 

InfiniteRE

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#39
I personally find Sonic annoying. My friend mains him so I could be bias, but trying to catch him sometimes can be a real chore.
 

MG_3989

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#40
You're a Ness main and you're annoyed by Ridley mindlessly spamming fireballs? Something doesn't seem quite right there.
I don’t mindlessly spam PK Fire, I use it sparingly as a spacing and combo set up tool. There’s a difference between Ness’s who mindlessly spam PK Fire and Ness’s who rely on their aerials, combos, grab, and edgeguading game who use PK Fire sparingly. If I spammed it it wouldn’t be effective and people would play around it

Ness is so damn braindead. They don’t even have to be good to be irritating. Just fish for pk fire confirms and congrats, you’re a ness main.

That said, pikachu and pichu may actually be worse because, depending on the matchup, they’re likely to spend most of the fight ping ponging you to either end of the stage and generally just be relentlessly aggressive. Wouldn’t be surprised, or lose any sleep, if they got nerfed TBH.
Ness isn’t braindead when you play him right. I literally use almost every move has and PK Fire isn’t a move I use all the time
 
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