Confirmed Character Discussion (Part 2)

[petre]

umm, red exodus, pk fire is ness's neutral b move. theres no different move for side b. if you press side + b, you get...pk fire! omg!!! he doesnt have pk flash, sorry.

anyway, i figured i should post this here...in the new pics on smashbros.com, one has link shooting an arrow. what i noticed is that hes kneeling down while doing it, no longer standing like melee. i was thinking 'probably just a new animation', but then i was thinking, maybe thats what happens when you use a b-move out of a crouch. it would hit closer to the ground than a normal standing arrow. i dont know if anyones posted on this before, if so, sorry, but i havent seen anything about it yet.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Ok Red, here's what I found out from 10 minutes of play... and a good 3 hour nap...

Ness and ANY CHARACTER do their neutral B attack with a forward B input.

Then I thought: "Maybe Ness' alters like Link's?"
So I tried that out. I tried a neutral standing B, then a tilted B, then a smash forward B. All the same speed, all the same trajectory, all the same damage.
So I tried it in the air. Aerial neutral B, aerial tilted B, aerial smash forward B. They all do the same thing, same speed, same trajectory, same damage.

I don't know what you're talking about Red Exodus, but the only character who's B move remotely changes at all with a forward input is Link.
And thank you to petre for backing me up on this one. I've mained Ness too since I unlocked him in SSB64, I knew I wasn't wrong.

 

[Creo]

I would have helped but I was not on...(whatever)

Petre, that has been said many times including by myself just not on here I do not believe. Anyway's, your excused.

 

[Wobbles]

i was thinking 'probably just a new animation', but then i was thinking, maybe thats what happens when you use a b-move out of a crouch. it would hit closer to the ground than a normal standing arrow. i dont know if anyones posted on this before, if so, sorry, but i havent seen anything about it yet.

Sounds more like a down+b to me.

So the trajectory of Pit's arrows can be controlled. I'm guessing they'll function like Ness' up+b.

 

[Devastlian]

Link does the same bow animation in the second trailer during Snake's segment and it looks like he does it from a standing position.

Pit's arrows do sound like they control like the PK Thunder. They'll obviously be faster, though, so you probably won't be able to bend the trajectory farther than 90 degrees or something.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

I think 90* is a bit too much. I'll say it has about as much trajectory as Link's boomerang. It'll probably be a bit slower than his fully charged arrow though, just to be fair.

Let's say Link's bow shoots 100% fully charged.
Pit's should probably shoot at about 80%.

Link's boomerang can angle at about 45*?
Pit's arrow should be able to angle about 30*, and you may be able to redirect it through its whole animation.

 

[roy_owns]

Pit might be a clone of Link

 

[slisenberg]

Pit might be a clone of Link

Well, flying link clone probably> link. :x

 

[Cisne]

Hm the light arrow is a bit "different" , i hope its look better while playing.
Control of the arrow....just like ness ? that would be a great edgeguard tool if it had a backwards knockback

 

[Wrath`]

pit got a haircut

 

[OmegaXXII]

Pit might be a clone of Link

WTF!!! , just because both of them have a similar attack which will probably vary in angles and shooting range doesn't mean there gonna be clones. next time think throughly before making such thoughless posts.

 

[Wrath`]

pit wont be clone,but i do want to main him

 

[kaid]

I see Pit's arrow less like PK Thunder, and more like Dins Fire. Faster, definately, and affecting anything in the path, but with that same level of control.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

YES! EXACLTLY LIKE THAT KAID!

That's what I was trying to get at, but couldn't find a good analogy.
It will probably be able to move a like Din's Fire, but fully ranged to move across the screen, and will hit a like Link's bow.

And Pit will be nothing like a Link clone. That's just dumb. Pit has wings, Link doesn't. Pit's main weapon is a bow that turns into twin daggers, Link's main weapon is a sword and can pull out a bow secondarily. Link is big and heavy, Pit will most likely be light with a medium frame. Even, just look at the clips of Pit fighting, at one point he twirls his bow in his hand, making a propeller to the side of him, the closest thing Link has to that is the spin attack, and that faces a completely different direction.

 

[r0b0fish]

L0L the this reminds me of those people who believed metaknight would be
a kirby clone.
Cuz of a screenshot of meta doeing a foreward kick wat looked just like kirby's.
>____<'

 

[Creo]

pit wont be clone,but i do want to main him

Yeah I am going to main him from what characters I have seen so far.

YES! EXACLTLY LIKE THAT KAID!

That's what I was trying to get at, but couldn't find a good analogy.
It will probably be able to move a like Din's Fire, but fully ranged to move across the screen, and will hit a like Link's bow.

And Pit will be nothing like a Link clone. That's just dumb. Pit has wings, Link doesn't. Pit's main weapon is a bow that turns into twin daggers, Link's main weapon is a sword and can pull out a bow secondarily. Link is big and heavy, Pit will most likely be light with a medium frame. Even, just look at the clips of Pit fighting, at one point he twirls his bow in his hand, making a propeller to the side of him, the closest thing Link has to that is the spin attack, and that faces a completely different direction.

Watch the trailers and there is no resemblence to a clone. That is a good analogy by Kaid.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

I think I'm going to try to maim Meta Knight, he seems to fit my style of play: constant, relentless, headstrong, and almost wreckless offense with a drop of strategy.
I hope MK has a spike.

 

[Stryks]

This is what im lovin about brawl, the characters actually look at the other oponents when fighting, reminds me kinda of soul calibur...

Ok so we see feathers, maybe some sort of attack?, I think so, I sort of though he would leave feathers every time he did a jump, but with what I c in the trailers, doesnt seem so, so im guessin he uses his wings like projectile daggers, similair to angel in XMEN, or maybe some sort of gust attack, that leaves feathers in the process...

Ok so We c the arrow, and we know we can control the trajectory of the arrow, still anyone besides me likes the original color of the arrow (gold) better than blue? meh idc anyway u can c that instead of looking straight at the angle of the arrow, pit is looking at fox, which is a plus in my book...

and fox's head looks enourmous in that angle...

Mario and Pit fight to c who will be my main in brawl XD

 

[Wrath`]

pit is going to be awsome.

is it me or does fox look a bit on the creepy side?hope that does not happen to falco

 

[Metrofan]

I just hope they don't eliminate all the clones from melee when puting them on brawl.
Roy all the way! Or at least Marth...if not i'm not even bothering to buy me a copy!

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Ok so we see feathers, maybe some sort of attack?, I think so, I sort of though he would leave feathers every time he did a jump, but with what I c in the trailers, doesnt seem so, so im guessin he uses his wings like projectile daggers, similair to angel in XMEN, or maybe some sort of gust attack, that leaves feathers in the process...

I'm thinking, most likely that's just an effect when he flaps. Or an effect for when he gets hit. Or maybe that will be his up B? He does his 5 jumps, then you hit up B and it's like a desperation push to get the last bit of energy out of his wings, losing a bunch of feathers. Cuz in Kid Icarus, he can't fly, he just uses the wings after you buy them to recover after dying, then they go away.

Ok so We c the arrow, and we know we can control the trajectory of the arrow, still anyone besides me likes the original color of the arrow (gold) better than blue? meh idc anyway u can c that instead of looking straight at the angle of the arrow, pit is looking at fox, which is a plus in my book...

I agree, gold arrows are better. They seem to fit him more. Blue should be a Samus' arm cannon thing only.
And I'm lovin' the "look at the opponent closest to you" thing we're seeing. That just makes one of the most simplistic but fun games ever, better than it already was. Realism makes fantasy awesome. Hooray for giving a soul to an 12 year old angel guardian and a space animal.

 

[Stryks]

I agree with ya Dyce, I too though it would be when he flaped his wings, feathers would come out, but after seeing the trailer I doubt ut, I also thought it could be his upb move, but u know after executing the upb moves, u stay in a falling position, and since that doesnt look like one, and being in the air, im guessin its has to be some sort of move where he uses feathers as weapons, or maybe a gust attack... thats my 2 cents anyway...

 

[Vali]

To me in that picture with Pit and Fox, it looks more like Pit is looking behind him to the left more than at Fox. I think "wow they're looking at each other" is more just "these screenshots aren't a true reflection of ingame action", like the first screenshot we had was almost certainly staged.

 

[Stryks]

Nah I dont think so, check some link and mario screens, as well as the Gooey bomb screens, they al llook at the oponents, so Im guessin thats part of the game, just like in SC...

 

[Vali]

What I'm saying is that I doubt they're going to have some sort of "looking at the opponent" system in Brawl. It's far more likely that there are frames where there is head rotation and it's been captured at an opportune time by whoever is making the screenshots and then photoshopping the characters together. Pictures like Mario with the gooey bomb on him aren't actually going to be in Smash, but no doubt they've taken his stance and look from when he's broken his shield, put a gooey bomb on him and have Wario starting to run the other way. They then construct that all into a screenshot of "Oh no! I have the gooey bomb on me " rather than just an ingame screenshot of Mario with the gooey bomb.

Edit: Ok, take the Pit and Link screenshot as further proof. Pit is standing at an angle parallel to the battlefield yet the camera shows Link flying in head on towards the camera. For that to actually happen there'd have to be a 3d "plane" or "dimension", which as we know there isnt since Smash is a 2d game.

 

[roy_owns]

It's not 2-D but side scrolling

 

[Vali]

It's not 2-D but side scrolling

I don't mean completely 2d, but you can only move in 2 planes. Still doesn't refute what I said.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Ok, take the Pit and Link screenshot as further proof. Pit is standing at an angle parallel to the battlefield yet the camera shows Link flying in head on towards the camera. For that to actually happen there'd have to be a 3d "plane" or "dimension", which as we know there isnt since Smash is a 2d game.

That's assuming that both of Pit's feet are on the same X-axis. If his legs are straddling the X-axis, then Link's position makes sense.

The only thing I find off in the picture is Link's expression. I don't know why he'd be shouting, unless he just came out of an attack.

...Now that I say that, that actually makes alot of sense. And another thing, these pictures could all have been taken in Camera Mode (which, by the way, should always be on: tap Z while paused in any mode to snap a pic). They're not shopped, in any case.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

They wouldn't be shopped, they may have altered their expressions on their engine program to make the shots look cooler. Technology boys... technology.

POSTED FROM MY WII!!!

 

[Vali]

That's assuming that both of Pit's feet are on the same X-axis. If his legs are straddling the X-axis, then Link's position makes sense.

The only thing I find off in the picture is Link's expression. I don't know why he'd be shouting, unless he just came out of an attack.

...Now that I say that, that actually makes alot of sense. And another thing, these pictures could all have been taken in Camera Mode (which, by the way, should always be on: tap Z while paused in any mode to snap a pic). They're not shopped, in any case.

Hm you could be right about the Link thing, I just find it hard to imagine. His jumping pose also looks a bit...bendy >.> dunno what that's about.

I know they could've been taken in Camera mode but I've been certain since the first update that the screenshots aren't true ingame footage since it'd be so much easier to make a screenshot of the 4 all together in a more photoshoppy way. Still taken from ingame footage though. It's the gooey bomb on Mario screenshot that is easily the most debatable in my eyes, I can't imagine that being an actual screenshot of what happened ingame.

Edit: When I say "photoshopped" I don't actually mean them using photoshop because as dyce kinda said they'd be able to do it much more realistically and easier than that I imagine. I'm using it in the sense that it's not necessarily real, even if all of the parts are.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Well, just remember those segments of the Special Video in Melee. Like Sheik "dangling" a banana in front of DK.

I guess they were probably made with some sort of debug mode. I'd still like it if the characters looked at each other. I can make some pretty snazzy snapshots in Melee, but little things like that (along with a constant camera accesbile via pausing, and WiiConnect24 support with said pictures) would make them even better.

 

[roy_owns]

That video wasn't made by some stupid debug, it was Sheik's little chain thing and a Food item

 

[Chief Mendez]

^^^
So some interns sat there in training mode for an interminate amount of time, waiting for a banana, a SINGLE banana, to appear RIGHT BELOW ONE OF THE PLATFORMS. Keep in mind that the stage shifts in that level, and yeah, I'm pretty sure they were debug-aided.

 

[Stryks]

U know they could have just been practice mode, put the item food, and press A until a banana appears, sure they would have modified so the percentage, combos, and speed thing wouldnt appear, but its nothing out of this world...

 

[Chief Mendez]

^^^
That would require

some sort of debug mode

...wouldn't it? Maybe not THE debug (the one accesible via an Action Replay...but my point is that they were most likely generated outside of (or at least with the help of) the actual game software.

EDIT - This is actually a pretty silly discussion. Conclusion: the Special Video had some outside help in it's creation, and the pictures on the dojo are...well, there's no proof either way, but a debug or some such tool was probably involved in their creation.

 

[Fawriel]

Of course all the fun screenshots are set-up. Just like the ones in Melee. Think of images like Ness using his PK Magnet between two simultaneously fire-spitting Charizards. Getting that to work in a normal match is next to impossible.
Now let's just hope that the fact they're set up doesn't mean they don't turn their heads in real play. It can't be that hard to do, NPCs have been doing it in Zelda games for ages...

 

[Red Exodus]

I did that once Fawriel, I was Fox stood between both of them and taunted lol. Then I paused and starred for 10 minutes wishing there was some way to get a screen shot. *sigh*

 

[Sensai]

^^^

That is the one thing that I really did not like about Melee. It was a ***** to take a picture of things when sometimes it would've been hilarious.

I'm honestly hoping (but not expecting) a fleshed out camera mode, including the possibility of recording. Probably not, but...I can hope.

 

[Kye L]

I'd love it if you could, separate from four GC/classic controllers being used, connect a Wiimote to any game to take a screenshot by just pointing at a spot with a large, barely visible reticule around the cursor showing the area that would be photoed, and all the screenshots could be viewed after the game.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

What would be better than that would be to be able to take pictures in any mode of any game. Just when you hit pause, it still tells you who hit pause, but the camera has full functionality. That could be the Wii-mote's purpose. Maybe a mode where you can pose the characters into any placement you want, like a super advancement of the opening in Super Mario 64.