Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

[BlackInk]

I'd love to see what you consider a good burying tool.

Also I main K. Rool and I'd gladly trade any of his aerials for Inklings.
(At least they short-hop auto-cancel compared to K. Rool's which don't)

K. Rool is just a bad character that I honestly can’t comprehend anyone mainly for serious play. Also, have you ever heard of flip kick or gaming watch’s downsmash? You know, the safe moves that have low percent bury confirm kills? Roller is just a mess that has way too much bury time and too much wasted punish time even when it’s cancelled.

 

[KirbySquad101]

- is looking to be the biggest gatekeeper to 's success, but moreso, Nairo's looking to be the biggest gatekeeper to Tea's success in this tournament, even forcing the switch out of him.

- VoiD continues to prove that doesn't actually have that many issues with killing; FTilt by a platform is such a good confirm into FSmash/DSmash, especially at Kalos.

EDIT: ESAM literally had the entire set at the palm of his hands during Game 4... and then he was pretty much like "Naw, I DON'T feel like winning today."

MuteAce 3-2s ESAM

 

[NotLiquid]

There's just plain downplaying and then there's trying to argue that roller is a terrible move because uh... *checks notes* it's not ZSS' flip kick.

I'm not even a mod but even I feel this entire game of downplaying someone's main just because your character isn't able to do very specific things that other characters can do is driving this topic/discussion/"state of the Ultimate meta" (if you can even call it that) into completely flippant snooze-ville that's better served anywhere but here.

 

[Envoy of Chaos]

It’s trolling, pretty obvious and bad trolling at this point I wouldn’t bother.

Summit is looking pretty nice so far I think we have a good bracket this year and these games should provide some great top level insight on some of the best characters in this game right now

 

[|RK|]

What has been HAPPENING here :/

 

[Rizen]

The ignore button's a nice thing.

I'd love to see what you consider a good burying tool.

Also I main K. Rool and I'd gladly trade any of his aerials for Inklings.
(At least they short-hop auto-cancel compared to K. Rool's which don't)

Even Nair and Dair? K.Rool's Uair would be great except it has decades of endlag.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

The ignore button's a nice thing.

Even Nair and Dair? K.Rool's Uair would be great except it has decades of endlag.

Okay not Dair.
Up Air would be a major relief and Nair is a big yes.

Anything that doesn't stick out Belly Armor and get a shield break.

 

[Cheryl~]

So another event has been happening other than Summit and Syndicate this weekend, Overlords of Orlando: Octoberlords.

here is the Top 8 for that event:

Winners Side
Salem vs. MVD
Dark Wizzy vs. Goblin

Salem won 3-1 over MVD and Dark Wizzy won 3-0 over Goblin so they will be fighting in Winners Finals.

Losers Side:
Mr. E vs. Myran
Kobe vs. Aaron (dyr)

Mr. E won 3-1 over Myran and Kobe won 3-0 over Aaron, leaving both of them at 7th place.

while this event isn’t quite as big as Summit or even Syndicate it is still a nice showing for some rarer characters, notably Young Link as Kobe has been tearing up the Losers bracket, and upset Pandarian in Winners side before losing to MVD.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Well if you ask me what the top 5
Characters are now. In no real order .

Characters like / being under them. Possibly brimg long too.

 

[BlackInk]

There's just plain downplaying and then there's trying to argue that roller is a terrible move because uh... *checks notes* it's not ZSS' flip kick.

I'm not even a mod but even I feel this entire game of downplaying someone's main just because your character isn't able to do very specific things that other characters can do is driving this topic/discussion/"state of the Ultimate meta" (if you can even call it that) into completely flippant snooze-ville that's better served anywhere but here.

Roller is a bad move because its punishes depend way too much on mashing and ridiculously high percents (like not even confirming at 140%) while Samus’s flip kick bury confirms at 60%. How can I not call it a bad move? I point this stuff out because I do think it’s bad game design to basically reward the safest moves so heavily and early but do the opposite with moves that are much more difficult and unsafe to land. So don’t pull some comedic act when I clearly understand what the heck I’m talking about.

A game about downplaying a main? I only talked about why maining King K. Rool was bad for one sentence and you twisted all of my words into making me look so much worse, which I didn’t do when I heavily disagreed with the King K. Rool main. I’m pretty sure you’re the one who’s attempting to start a game.

 

[$.A.F.]

Well if you ask me what the top 5
Characters are now. In no real order .

Characters like / being under them. Possibly brimg long too.

I agree but I’d put there as well.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Well if you ask me what the top 5

IMO in no order:


Runner Ups: (Good RNG)


Just for fun, the bottom 5:


HM:


Flame shields up.

 

[BlackInk]

What has been HAPPENING here :/

I don’t know. I think people overlook the issues of characters, don’t understand moves, or overlook the game design, then get really aggressive about it. I get some weird stuff about how characters like Inkling has kill power because Pikachu and ZSS (two light weights) die at 150% from them or how a weak back throw can kill. People really don’t seem to understand this game. Sometimes, they put words in my mouth about Inkling’s jab when I said that some jabs surprisingly could kill. It feels like I touch a hornets nest and it really wants to start a flame war.

It’s trolling, pretty obvious and bad trolling at this point I wouldn’t bother.

Summit is looking pretty nice so far I think we have a good bracket this year and these games should provide some great top level insight on some of the best characters in this game right now

If I was trolling, why would I bother trying to convey decent points, correct a lot of misinformation, and cover why bad game design is bad game design. Disagreeing with me is one thing, but to disregard me and call me an “obvious troll” is another.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Matches so far in bracket:

ESAM 2-3 MuteAce
Maister 3-0 VoiD
Nairo 3-0 RFang
Zackray 1-3 Light
Marss 3-1 Leffen
MkLeo 3-0 Tweek
Dabuz 3-1 Armada
Tea 1-3 Samsora



Matches tomorrow:

Winner's
MuteAce vs Maister
Nairo vs Light
Marss vs MkLeo
Dabuz vs Samsora


Loser's (Loser is out at 13th)
ESAM vs VoiD
RFang vs Zackray
Leffen vs Tweek
Armada vs Tea

Well if you ask me what the top 5
Characters are now. In no real order .

Characters like / being under them. Possibly brimg long too.

In my top 5, I would say:

Others Slightly Below Them:

Possibly include:

 

[sleepy_Nex]

The thing is that you don't correct misinformation but spread it. You literally said inklings backthrow kills around 190% now generally if we talk about killpercents of a backthrow we talk near the ledge and there it kills at around 130-150% depending on weight. A bit sooner with rage. Maybe your percentages are from the other side of the stage idk.

 

[Nebunera]

Well if you ask me what the top 5
Characters are now. In no real order .

Characters like / being under them. Possibly brimg long too.

Ordered:

1-5:
6-10:

 

[MrGameguycolor]

The thing is that you don't correct misinformation but spread it.

I get your drift, but this guy seems to have his mind made up.

Just move on without him and he'll learn eventually.

 

[KirbySquad101]

I feel like it’s hard to put a pin on top 5 (for me) on the pretense that characters undergo so many ups and downs in terms of representation and results. If I were to make a list as of now, though:

Top 5:

The “Maybe not top 5 but still bonkers category”: (Don’t sleep on the Blue Bomber or the Jump Man)

The “Maybe will get there someday?” category:

 

[BlackInk]

The thing is that you don't correct misinformation but spread it. You literally said inklings backthrow kills around 190% now generally if we talk about killpercents of a backthrow we talk near the ledge and there it kills at around 130-150% depending on weight. A bit sooner with rage. Maybe your percentages are from the other side of the stage idk.

Let me guess, it was done without di... Trust me, it’s ridiculously common. It’s how people claim that Inciniroar’s backthrow is stronger than Ness.

I get your drift, but this guy seems to have his mind made up.

Just move on without him and he'll learn eventually.

As if I’m the one who’s misinformed. I actually watch a lot of inkling matches and match ups from pro players and the back throw isn’t strong in any sense of the word, even with rage. If it worked I wouldn’t ever mention that Inkling needed a backthrow that killed at 150% when the opponent was near the ledge. Christ, have any of you ever talk to any of the best inkling mains because they do open themselves up. Armada especially is frustrated by the strong backthrow myth. Seriously, how is Inkling’s weak kill power a meme when it’s extremely consistent with the character in tournament matches but people actually believe that their backthrow is strong when it barely kills at 188% with max rage?

That brings me to another point, why are you guys talking about the game itself if you can’t bother to properly lab the characters, understand their weight, or take a good look at the matches and understand what’s happening?

Ordered:

1-5:
6-10:

My top five is:

bottom top ten is:

Top memes are:

 

[ZephyrZ]

Spoiler: My final post on that Inkling stuff for now, go ahead and skip this if you're tired of that topic

I get some weird stuff about how characters like Inkling has kill power because Pikachu and ZSS (two light weights) die at 150% from them or how a weak back throw can kill. People really don’t seem to understand this game. Sometimes, they put words in my mouth about Inkling’s jab when I said that some jabs surprisingly could kill.

Do you not see the irony here?

I never said Inkling was especially good at killing. But if you'd like, I could analyze Cosmos's recent set against LeoN. Fun Fact about super heavies - their kill percents are higher, but once they reach those percents kill moves and confirms are way easier to hit, and the kill confirm windows are notably larger. There's more factors that go into getting kills then just weight.

Also, for the record, I said before, not at 150%. Especially were often times where Inkling got a Boo-ya and killed ZSS at around 100.

Let me guess, it was done without di... Trust me, it’s ridiculously common. It’s how people claim that Inciniroar’s backthrow is stronger than Ness.

A full 40+% of difference? That must be some crazy DI.

But just to be safe I sent and tested it on Mario with DI in on FD. 151% with zero rage seems to be a magic number.

That brings me to another point, why are you guys talking about the game itself if you can’t bother to properly lab the characters, understand their weight, or take a good look at the matches and understand what’s happening?

Has it occurred to you that people might be annoyed with you because you're exaggerating Inkling's weakness and treating them like idiots when they disagree with you? Do you think that could be why some of us seem kind of aggressive?

I want to give you the benefit of the doubt that you're truly not a troll, but if that really is the case you might need to take a step back and reflect on that attitude. Maybe take a break from Ultimate if you need it.

 

[BlackInk]

Spoiler: My final post on that Inkling stuff for now, go ahead and skip this if you're tired of that topic

Do you not see the irony here?

I never said Inkling was especially good at killing. But if you'd like, I could analyze Cosmos's recent set against LeoN. Fun Fact about super heavies - their kill percents are higher, but once they reach those percents kill moves and confirms are way easier to hit, and the kill confirm windows are notably larger. There's more factors that go into getting kills then just weight.

Also, for the record, I said before, not at 150%. Especially were often times where Inkling got a Boo-ya and killed ZSS at around 100.

A full 40+% of difference? That must be some crazy DI.

But just to be safe I sent and tested it on Mario with DI in on FD. 151% with zero rage seems to be a magic number.

Has it occurred to you that people might be annoyed with you because you're exaggerating Inkling's weakness and treating them like idiots when they disagree with you? Do you think that could be why some of us seem kind of aggressive?

I want to give you the benefit of the doubt that you're truly not a troll, but if that really is the case you might need to take a step back and reflect on that attitude. Maybe take a break from Ultimate if you need it.

I don’t even want to bother with “stepping back”. The thing is that I wish I am joking about Inkling’s kill power but I honestly can’t stand it and I’m actually tired of the dumb bs I keep seeing this character and their archetype in general due to the rage mechanic. You know what’s ironic to me, I think you guys over exaggerate this crap about characters being so damn absurd over some little things when the conditions for the circumstance has hilarious tight requirements, like Inkling’s and Mario’s supposed “killer back throw” or Isabelle’s and Diddy’s infinite. Usually the stuff that’s exaggerated and is barely ever been utilize at all well with tourneys because they are the equivalent of Twitter combos. I look into the negative things but I do explain how and why it happens and how to fix it. Simply saying, “it’s not a problem” is an excuse and a lot of the arguments I keep seeing are pretty awful or way too focused in a tiny picture. Like seriously, how is rage or comeback jank defendable when the game features several unique characters who struggle heavily with killing? I tell people the big picture of the situation but it gets ignored because “it’ll be absurd for these characters to kill when the comeback mechanic reaches around it’s absolute max.” As if being at around 150% doesn’t mean something extremely significant when it does in this game and it leads to pretty early kills.

I treat them like idiots? No. I’m treating them like they’re assholes because they’re assholes. Some people have come up to me and debate with me in a way better manner than many of the people around here and we actually learn something from each other. These people get way too carried away with Inkling, they don’t care about logical design or logical consequences. To me, Inkling is a representation of something much more problematic in Ultimate that we constantly ignore. And I have said before that fixing the archetype is just a “band-aid” for this game. Which means I’m not going to stop whining about the game design even if they readjust Inkling and the “hard to kill with” archetype in future patches, because I don’t believe that’s the core issue with this game.

 

[$.A.F.]

I don’t even want to bother with “stepping back”. The thing is that I wish I am joking about Inkling’s kill power but I honestly can’t stand it and I’m actually tired of the dumb bs I keep seeing this character and their archetype in general due to the rage mechanic. You know what’s ironic to me, I think you guys over exaggerate this crap about characters being so damn absurd over some little things when the conditions for the circumstance has hilarious tight requirements, like Inkling’s and Mario’s supposed “killer back throw” or Isabelle’s and Diddy’s infinite. Usually the stuff that’s exaggerated and is barely ever been utilize at all well with tourneys because they are the equivalent of Twitter combos. I look into the negative things but I do explain how and why it happens and how to fix it. Simply saying, “it’s not a problem” is an excuse and a lot of the arguments I keep seeing are pretty awful or way too focused in a tiny picture. Like seriously, how is rage or comeback jank defendable when the game features several unique characters who struggle heavily with killing? I tell people the big picture of the situation but it gets ignored because “it’ll be absurd for these characters to kill when the comeback mechanic reaches around it’s absolute max.” As if being at around 150% doesn’t mean something extremely significant when it does in this game and it leads to pretty early kills.

I treat them like idiots? No. I’m treating them like they’re ******** because they’re ********. Some people have come up to me and debate with me in a way better manner than many of the people around here and we actually learn something from each other. These people get way too carried away with Inkling, they don’t care about logical design or logical consequences. To me, Inkling is a representation of something much more problematic in Ultimate that we constantly ignore. And I have said before that fixing the archetype is just a “band-aid” for this game. Which means I’m not going to stop whining about the game design even if they readjust Inkling and the “hard to kill with” archetype in future patches, because I don’t believe that’s the core issue with this game.

So are you just going to ignore my post providing literal video evidence debunking your claims or.....

 

[boysilver400]

My top 5 in this order



The rest of top 10 in order

 

[$.A.F.]

For me it’s gotta be in order:

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Even nowadays its hard to nail down a top 5/10. So much flux.

By my guestimation I'd say top 5 is / in no particular order, followed by in no particular order.

But then are all within striking range of top 10 as well. Heck maybe even if he continues his success with multiple players long term, or if becomes more consistent they could make it back up there.

I feel are locked for on the outside looking in, they're fantastic characters will one or two noticeable things that will probably forever keep them out of top 10 outside of patches but will be sitting pretty at the top of high tier area. But a patch could easily be enough for any of them to climb upwards. And then after that lot it gets really messy.

 

[NotLiquid]

Syndicate 2019 Top 8

Winners Side:
Glutonny vs quiK
Space vs Light

Losers Side:

Tarik vs Oryon
Flow vs Greil

 

[Impax]

The losers top 12 matches were really good. Very nearly had a ness and a rosa in top 8

 

[Lacrimosa]

Syndicate 2019 Top 8

Winners Side:
Glutonny vs quiK
Space vs Light

Losers Side:

Tarik vs Oryon
Flow vs Greil

Looks like a very solid day/tournament for the German Smash scene in particular.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

From now it seems Fox was a poor MU for Palu. But now I see is at "volatile' even.

Both Both have the right tools and abilties to captilize on the other's weakness can thus absolutely trap and wreck each other in disadvatage. It seems that most Nairo vs Light sets can be determined on who can get the first hit on each stock lol.

 

[Lacrimosa]

What's the general perception of / by that point in time?
QuiK has made Top 8 on Winner's side at Syndicate and other players like YB are also a force to reckon with.

Quik also wants to solo Samus from now on, which means dropping in the process.


First set on Syndicate Loser's side:

Greil 3-2 Flow (is eliminated now) in a very, very close last match where Flow overextended and sd while edgeguarding Richter.
Otherwise the typical sideB kill at 40% from Roy but it was very close to the blastzone but still.

Oryon 3-1 Tarik
Pretty decisive set. Tarik was beaten solidly the first two matches and in the 2nd match his PT was very outclassed. Tarik went Greninja in the other games except game 2. The other matches after the first two have been much closer but Wolf's dSmash is still as dangerous as ever.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Here is the progress of Summit:

In Winner's (Winner gets top 8 winner's)
MuteAce 0-3 Maister
Nairo 3-1 Light
Marss 0-3 MkLeo
Dabuz 2-3 Samsora

In Loser's (Loser gets 13th)
Armada 1-3 Tea
Leffen 3-2 Tweek
RFang 0-3 Zackray
ESAM 3-0 VoiD



And the progress of Syndicate:

In Winner's (Winner moves on to Winner's Finals)
Glutonny 3-1 quiK
Space 3-1 Light

In Loser's (Loser gets 5th)
Light 1-3 Greil
quiK 3-0 Oryon

 

[Lacrimosa]

Winner's Finals of Syndicate:

Glutonny 3-2 Space

Loser's Semis:

quiK 3-0 Greil , eliminating him at 4th place

 

[The_Bookworm]

In Summit:
Tea 3-0 MuteAce (eliminated at 9th)


In Syndicate:
quiK 3-1 Space to move on to grand finals vs Glutonny.

 

[NotLiquid]

Glutonny has MKLeo levels of comeback resilience. quiK is the second player I can think of who ran a fantastic set over him, only for him to get swept back up in the rematch set.

Samus' neutral and disadvantage game is pretty damn great.

 

[Rizen]

So another event has been happening other than Summit and Syndicate this weekend, Overlords of Orlando: Octoberlords.

here is the Top 8 for that event:

Winners Side
Salem vs. MVD
Dark Wizzy vs. Goblin

Salem won 3-1 over MVD and Dark Wizzy won 3-0 over Goblin so they will be fighting in Winners Finals.

Losers Side:
Mr. E vs. Myran
Kobe vs. Aaron (dyr)

Mr. E won 3-1 over Myran and Kobe won 3-0 over Aaron, leaving both of them at 7th place.

while this event isn’t quite as big as Summit or even Syndicate it is still a nice showing for some rarer characters, notably Young Link as Kobe has been tearing up the Losers bracket, and upset Pandarian in Winners side before losing to MVD.

Kobe used Marth too. But still it's nice to see YL do well. I don't think YL's really solo viable because he struggles with fast disjoints so much. He's a good CP character and does pretty well vs several top/high tiers (even at worst imo):

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Zackray 3 - 2 Marss at Summit

 

[The_Bookworm]

Syndicate 2019

1st: Glutonny
2nd: quiK
3rd: Space
4th: Greil
5th: Oryon
5th: Light (Not Fox player Light)
7th: Flow
7th: Tarik
9th: Meru
9th: Homika
9th: S1
9th: Fatality
13th: Supahsemmie
13th: Jeda
13th: Ogey
13th: LuiS (Not Lui$)

 

[Nebunera]

a low tier got 4th at a major, nice

Sick tournament though. That Inkling player Space has a lot going for him and it seems we are seeing a little more of .

 

[Goodstyle_4]

I swear to God if quik traveled more soooo many Americans would hate Samus.

 

[SwagGuy99]

Here is the progress of Summit:

In Winner's (Winner gets top 8 winner's)
MuteAce 0-3 Maister
Nairo 3-1 Light
Marss 0-3 MkLeo
Dabuz 2-3 Samsora

In Loser's (Loser gets 13th)
Armada 1-3 Tea
Leffen 3-2 Tweek
RFang 0-3 Zackray
ESAM 3-0 VoiD

In terms of character diversity, Top 8 of Summit has