boysilver400
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  • Kirby’s (probably) not the worst in the game anymore but he’s still kinda bad tbh. The buffs helped with his struggle to kill, but he still isn’t good with approaching, stone still doesn’t work correctly on shield, down tilt barely trips(seriously I still think the move should have a 50/50 trip chance) and they didn’t help with many of his bad MUs.

    :(
    Wigglerman
    Wigglerman
    I've never believed Kirby to be the worst in Ultimate. I still believe Mac will always be the worst due to fundamentally flawed character design. Though I don't agree on 50/50 trip chance as that's just a bit too good for any character to have that high of a trip chance. As for bad match ups, not many things for any character will change their bad match ups. Not without significant changes to the characters involved. Sadly not how balancing works in general. It can HELP the match ups a little but rarely will it sway match ups considerably.
    Lesley Black Velvet
    Lesley Black Velvet
    Mac's design hurt him so much not even a full rework could save him tbh.
    BuffKirby
    BuffKirby
    Actually, now that he can fight on platforms against half the cast, Seagull Joe now claims Kirby +1’s Palutena rather than go even/slightly win.
    I firmly believe any -1/-2 matchups turned to -0.8/-1.8 - the buffs really help even though the core of issues are still there. He’s much better, definitely not the absolute worst in the game and I believe him to be the absolute best low tier or absolute worst mid tier. He has relevant matchups and a good number of his “bad matchups” probably aren’t that awful (Wolf, Greninja, Wario are likely -1). Also I think we counter Terry lol.

    Even if stone were to be buffed, outside of extreme reads and edgeguarding it wouldn’t be much because of its high startup/endlag. His only problem with approaching is against spam-happy people/Game and Watch (Link, Snake, Samus) and swordies aren’t that bad since they don’t have anything to zone him out with (which is why Brother Quang beat Mr E 2-1 all Kirby).
    So...
    How’s Roy coming along? Doing better with him than Kirby?
    boysilver400
    boysilver400
    I’m still working on it. I actually got onto DKwill’s stream once for viewer battles and he gave me decent advice.

    I’ll probably keep Kirby in my back pocket in case he gets buffs
    Patch 6.0 wishes:

    Kirby buffs and fixes, Jigglypuff rest buff, rockcrocking removed, Kirby buffs, Snake nerfs, Waft, Flip Kick, Palu Nair, Arsene/Rebels guard getting toned down. Kirby buffs, any move that doesn’t work to get fixed, shields getting fixed, and....oh yeah, BUFF KIRBY PLEASE.

    What I think will actually happen:

    Kirby down tilt gets nerfed and he gets nothing else, Little Mac gets a run speed nerf, Palu down tilt buff while her nair is untouched Pikachu nair gets buffed for no reason, Flip Kick gets untouched, Snake gets an air speed buff because “hIs dISaDvANtAgE iS bAD”, Inkling gets more KBG on Up air because “sHE cAn”T kILl”, Dedede’s Dash attack gets nerfed, and Olimar’s sheild will become even smaller.
    BuffKirby
    BuffKirby
    I thought you took a break from Ultimate
    No seriously, I think it's wearing you down
    Don't think about the competitive Kirby, think of Kirby outside of Smash
    Not the low-tier puffball, but a someone when you can vent your thoughts. Where you can share happiness together.

    Seriously the competitive side has influenced you too much so take a break from it, don't think too much on this stuff
    Lesley Black Velvet
    Lesley Black Velvet
    If you're going about ******** why your main is not so good, why not try something else? Or try another character?

    I "main" Sheik in Ultimate but I rarely bust her out in competitive matches. Even if my style syncs with the character, this isn't her game, so I stayed true to my swordies.
    boysilver400
    boysilver400
    I don’t main Kirby anymore but I still wish he was good.

    I main Roy now but I’m not perfect with him
    There really is no character in ult that has everything I want
    Kirby is terrible
    Robs disadvantage is too bad
    Chorys and Wolfs recovery is awful
    Palu is too flowchart for me
    Mario doesn’t have enough range
    I really just don’t like Lucina
    Snake, Peach, Fox and Joker have too high skill caps

    I have no one to run to.

    This game ****ing sucks
    Can we add Bayo to the list of worst designed characters
    Silvera
    Silvera
    No.
    psb123
    psb123
    I hope you're talking about how she's designed as a Smash character because in general, Bayonetta's design is freaking awesome.
    Likes: Oz o:
    boysilver400
    boysilver400
    I mostly said this because I was and still am tight after losing to one earlier but I feel you just have to play so campy against her, even with her strings not being as good, although the Bayo I played against in an arena made her seem like she was still top tier. And I really don’t like having to camp.
    Likes: Oz o:
    I’m genuinely considering deleting ultimate until Kirby gets fixed and buffed. I keep losing. Nothing I’m doing is working, this game is eating up my psyche, and it’s just a distraction when I could and should be doing better things. I will never improve until Kirby gets better. I’m hopeless trash.
    BuffKirby
    BuffKirby
    Brawl and 64 are still fun
    SSF2 are also fun.
    Ultimate is stressing you too much. Delete it and don’t come back from it for a month.

    Try avoiding anything smash-related in that period of time.

    Casual play > competitive play. Competitive aspects make things less fun. Tournaments are just one piece of pepperoni to the entire pizza of Smash Bros. WoL is a blast. Home run contest. Stage builder. All fun.

    Maybe try SSF2? It’s really fun and online play is really fun
    Kirby’s down tilt should have a higher trip chance

    I don’t care how stupid this buff request sounds. This move almost never trips when I used it. I always had to spam it like 3-4 times and it still wouldn’t trip.
    Serious question. Is there any character that has all of a good disadvantage, good recovery, good range, non flowcharty, fast, viable and easy to use?

    The character has to fit every single one of these.
    Seeing Kirby get so close but yet fail to get a breakout performance while other perceived low tiers are genuinely enrages me and it’s why I think he’s bottom 1. If he gets the buffs and fixes he actually ****ing needs he can be...more successful than what he is. No more of this QoL bull****. Kirby needs help NOW. K Rool needs help NOW. There needs to be actual changes in patches from now on.
    BuffKirby
    BuffKirby
    Wanna bet he’ll get a breakout within this year w/o patches? I want fixes not buffs. Buffs generally boost his stats. The fixes are as easy as 123.
    I mean it’s disheartening to see stuff like this. Komota 2-1 Jumpsteady and almost didn’t get a breakout performance at all.
    K. Rool got 17th at Thunder Smash 3 (it’s not that bad at all).

    IDK he has one of the smallest playerbases in all of smash due to his low popularity as a character in general. A “cutie” character that doesn’t seem to fit in the environment of Smash.

    Fixes address his issues (minor or major) while buffs only increase his, say, traction by x. Even if he has the buffed power of someone like Link it’s not enough to offset his issues.
    Why don’t more peopl complain about snake
    RosietheWolf47
    RosietheWolf47
    Because everyone seems to be good at him. (Villager and Isabelle would be the perfect character to use when battling Snake. You can pocket the bombs and missiles and throw them back).
    what is it with people calling Kirby obnoxious lately and saying that he doesn't deserve buffs? I don't get it. At all.
    BuffKirby
    BuffKirby
    kirbycides and probably being voiced like a young boy?
    I dunno he needs more fixes than buffs but either they lost to one or they don’t understand the puffball
    Why are you continuing to view the cci thread
    Full of bias and the info there is limited at best and skewed at worst
    It’s not helping with your character crisis
    What character is easy to use and has good disadvantage state? Because I tried to play rob and his disadvantage felt miserable and Chroy and Kirby also have it bad.
    So...my rough plan for character lineup in bracket

    Main: Chroy(not sure who I prefer at the moment)

    Secondaries: R.O.B and maybe Kirby

    Possible pocket???: Palu
    I don’t even know if I should go to locals. I’m garbage and playing with Chrom and Roy instead of Kirby has opened my eyes to how bad I am and I keep SD’ing with them because there recovery is garbage. My character crisis will never end :’(
    Wigglerman
    Wigglerman
    I wouldn't put it like that. You're 'garbage' with swordies because you're used to Kirby. It'll take time to adjust to a sword character and getting to the point where you know their limits to make better and more calculated plays. Yeah, their recovery isn't great but the characters are clearly good. You just gotta retrain your brain from pink puff boy to anime sword boy.
    BuffKirby
    BuffKirby
    Try playing brawl. It's fun
    Do you want to retract from Kirby? it's totally fine. You on Chrom/Roy discord? People can be there to help you as well
    I think I might just stop playing Ult for a while. This game is hurting my sanity and energy and it's making me depressed and unhappy about my life.
    boysilver400
    boysilver400
    I say this...but then I'm probably gonna go back to the game tomorrow if not later tonight. Im a mess
    Likes: xzx
    BuffKirby
    BuffKirby
    Play SSF2 or something.
    I really don’t like being pessimistic about Kirby in Ult but... :/
    BuffKirby
    BuffKirby
    Online media is not good if you’re looking at competitive play. Some of the most exaggerated claims I’ve seen.
    Only like 3 or 4 days in to maiming Chroy and I’m already questioning this choice ://///
    S
    StoicPhantom
    If you like playing Kirby the most, I'd recommend playing him until you improve your fundamentals. People make a big deal over tier lists, but in reality the gap between characters is much smaller than the gap between players. There isn't that much of a difference between mid and high tier or even low and high tier. That gap will only matter between players of an equal skill level and really only at the very top. Your fundamentals are the most important thing by a mile, so don't worry about your character until you reach a level that you truly feel your character is holding you back( if you ever feel like that).

    If you don't actually want to play Kirby anymore, then you need to understand that it will take longer than a few days to get up to snuff. You're essentially relearning how to fight the rest of the cast all over again, so it will take a while to get as good as a character you've been playing for a long time.
    Does anyone know of someone who does smash training sessions for free? I desperately need some but I’m broke.
    boysilver400
    boysilver400
    Like...seriously

    I would kill for some tutoring in this game. I’m ****ing tired of being bad. I’ve moved on from Kirby(sort of)but I really need my Chroy to work if I want to go to a local.
    Orlando BCN
    Orlando BCN
    Why not just view your own matches and see where to improve?
    I'm dumb so I have to ask, what do the numbers on shield mean, like how Roy's Up air is -4/-5 on shield
    R-senpai
    R-senpai
    I'm pretty sure it's how safe it is on shield
    S
    StoicPhantom
    How much frame advantage you have. The different numbers depend on the move, but it's usually sour-spot/sweet-spot or vice versa. So Roy's Up-air being -4/-5, means hitting up close for the sweet-spot is -4 frames of advantage on shield and spacing far with the sour-spot is -5 frames of advantage. Some moves are early/late like Sheik's Bair, which is -4/-4 and means whether you hit instantly with Sheik's Bair(strong hit) or late(weak hit). The / is to differentiate different hitboxs of the same move, given they will usually have different frame advantage.

    So Roy's close Up-air being -4 means the defender(shield) has +4 frames where they can act before you can. Given shield dropping takes 11 frames, the defender would not be able to punish with a move that isn't jump canceled, because adding the shield drop penalty to the -4 advantage ultimately puts YOUR frame advantage at 7. You could then shield or interrupt with a Jab or something if they try to attack. Even if they jump cancel with a jump or Up-B out of shield, that's still a frame 3 jumpsquat + aerial and few characters have an Up-B quicker than 4 frames. So a move is -4 is safe on shield in most cases.

    Parries are an exception, since as far as I know adds 14 frames of advantage for the defender(no shield drop penalty). So -4 would become -18, meaning Roy's Up-air wouldn't be safe. There are other exceptions such as stale moves and "meaty" hits(https://twitter.com/MetalMusicMan_/status/1149794211732082688), but that's the gist of it.
    I feel like I need therapy
    BuffKirby
    BuffKirby
    kirby right?
    I suppose you’re upset about his weaknesses and stigma from 4
    Sometimes I don’t understand why the public is so polarized over him
    boysilver400
    boysilver400
    I was honestly feeling really ****ty in general last night. I feel a little better this morning.
    Who’s in charge of the balance patches? Wtf is going on over there???
    BuffKirby
    BuffKirby
    Sakurai and his balance team I suppose
    Idk they don’t follow competitive smash it’s the elite data
    Now that Jesuischoq and Komota are both out of UFA and Big House respectively, I’m rooting for Greward(in UFA) too bad he has to instantly face MkLeo tomorrow:/
    I’ve been glooming and dooming over Ultimate a lot but I really feel hopeless in this game. I feel like I have no character to run to, I don’t really ha ve anyone to practice with accept for going to multi open arena streams which helps, but the waits tend to be long and that lags too sometimes. My mentality in general is terrible, I tilt way too easily; simply getting a 2 stock game on QP is enough to make me want to give up and yeet my controller when I haven’t even started the battle yet...

    I want to go to offline tournaments, but I have no one that I can confidently say that I main at the moment. I’ve tried everyone. Kirby is still my best character by far but I refuse to solo main him until he gets more than pointless QoL buffs. I’m not sure if I want to drop him entirely but I need a secondary, co-main, or a new main entirely.

    ...What should I do...? I need help
    Abe 'n Munchie
    Abe 'n Munchie
    I'm totally in a similar boat as you! Finding a main has been difficult and I've always wanted to go to locals offline but need a character I know I can do well with against real opponents.

    Wishing you the best in finding a path to success!

    If you ever need anything, I'll be glad to try and help ya'! :)
    Ultimate sucks
    boysilver400
    boysilver400
    Honestly I haven’t even played WoL. This is just an exaggeration from salt but I really have no idea who tf I want to main. I’ve been trying to go to tournaments but I don’t want to go when I don’t even know for sure who to main.
    smashingDoug
    smashingDoug
    I know. It lies. Not Twilight Princess Link. Was just getting good with the Gale boomerang.
    MajoraMoon
    MajoraMoon
    Ah, I see.
    Waking up at 6 am to go to school every week is not healthy for me at all. I always feel upset and unmotivated for no reason during the school year. I have no motivation to really do anything at the moment. Not to try and improve at smash(although that doesn't just have to do with my tiredness), not to write a fanfic I'm writing, not to do homework, I just feel empty.

    On top of that, almost every morning I wake up, I get the sniffles and it feels like a could have a cold, but as the day goes on, it just goes away. This might just be allergy season, but the fact that this is only a morning issue is strange.

    At least I'm a senior, though. I'm ready for this hellish cycle to be over.
    RealPokeFan11
    RealPokeFan11
    That same **** happened to me for the past few school years. I had to wake up at 6:45 every morning, and I even had the mild allergies that went away after 10 minutes. Senior year was the worst, because I was almost an hour away from school every other week, and I had to wake up at 6:25. Waking up was also hell on earth because I got a headache from getting up that early. Good thing I'm in college now and my schedule is much more reasonable.
    Venus of the Desert Bloom
    Venus of the Desert Bloom
    I wake up at 5:30 to get ready for work....
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    Try to at least get 8 hours of sleep, even if it does mean having to go to sleep at like 10 (I know, it sucks). The bright side, you have the weekend to make up for that... sleep is very underrated. A lot of people think they can get by with below the usual recommendation, but it's far more than just being able to stay awake. Energy has at least half to do with how you actually feel, which includes the way your hormones behave. Staying hydrated helps.

    I probably used to sleep around 6-7 hours during my school days, and I have to wonder if that was half the reason I felt most of the time.
    What’s the best way to lab when your online subscription ran out and you can’t afford to go to Tournaments? I’ve been trying to go up against AI’s and...no.
    b2jammer
    b2jammer
    I hate to say it, but at this point, don't even bother. With nobody to practice with, you really can't lab anything (I would suggest Training Mode combos, but even they won't always work in a real match).
    boysilver400
    boysilver400
    I did get my online sub back, but I’m still not satisfied withQuickplay. Gonna do arenas more often.
    I’m taking a break from ultimate. My main is still ass, I can’t get better with anyone, online is abysmal and useless for practicing, the cpus in this game are annoying as hell, and that stupid ****ing buffer system keeps costing me punishes, stocks, and games. I’m so tired.
    Nutty Sponge
    Nutty Sponge
    How are CPUs annoying? I'm assuming you're referring to quickplay, and if ya don't like it guess what? There's public arenas for you to join, on top of numerous discord servers that have matchmaking channels so you can play with specific people for specific practice.
    boysilver400
    boysilver400
    I’m probably just used to weaker cpus compared to these cpus. As for arenas, I use them, but it still lags sometimes, and random communication errors pop up out of nowhere, plus I honestly just really wish we could train while waiting in long lines, although spectating can be useful.
    Nutty Sponge
    Nutty Sponge
    you could just make a one person arena, and play a few matches with one player, then kick them so someone else will join. Prevents the line problem
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