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  • Weak Kick and Dair > stuff sounds kind of legit. You might've had a point about the stagger leading to a potential Up B. Did it a couple of times.

    I just did weak Kick trip > Up B at about 100 on a Snake, lol.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    I thought it might. Did you find a pattern or did it seem random whether they tripped/staggered or not? Might be useful if there is, given my reaction time is pretty bad.
    Did you notice the latest trend in montages? They're too focused on "memes" for my taste. Not even in the actual plays so much... it was alright for a new thing, but now literally everyone is doing it.
    1-2 in bracket. Again.

    This time it was different, though. I seem to be getting a far better hand at playing like I actually do. Felt pretty comfterble and really damn unshook. The result may not show it, but I know what I felt. Was pretty content with the WR2 set. It should be up during the weekend.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    Guess dealing with nerves just takes practice like anything else. Maybe your dream of getting top 8 at a major might happen one day lol. Was thinking about seeing if I could find a tournament and time to go on my annual medical appointment trip, but ended up getting sick the night before I was to go lulz.
    Likes: Oz
    Rare footage of Oz using Phantom?!
    Oz
    Oz
    I'll show you later if you want.
    Oz
    Oz
    ****'s lit. Starting to feel more confident with it. Using it a lot more, but mostly just at the ledge (like I said I would). Looks like you can make your imagination run wild.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    I wouldn't mind if you feel like it. And yeah, you can get quite a lot of different things off of it, provided you get the read or have great reaction time.
    Pathetic.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    I thought so. To be honest, I'm also struggling to improve. Kind of hit that stage where you have a good foundation and style formed, but also have your thinking narrowed as a result. So it's become a bit of a grind, trying to make small optimizations and improvements. I think I need to find good opponents more consistently now, so I'm going to actually stop being lazy and try arenas now. My friend having a rare break from his busy life and actually being able to come over and play offline showed me lag is a huge issue, especially as Zelda.

    It seems I'm mostly struggling because of lag, not being worse than I actually am, so I'm going to stop playing quickplay soon and try the arena, so I can hopefully get more consistently good opponents.
    Likes: Oz
    Oz
    Oz
    Try Discords. Smashcords. I had an idea of being in all of the different character Discords so I can get different matchup knowledge.

    You sound like you've been playing only on Elite/Quickplay. I usually find good people very rare in-between, and some of them don't even stick around if you mess up (because **** them they aren't actually that good).
    S
    StoicPhantom
    You would be correct. Starting to really hate that mode, even enough to offset my laziness. I haven't ever used discord, but I'll try to look into it sometime. Also jfc has it really been almost a week since I've posted? Guess I've been busier than I thought, but that week went by way too quick.
    Don't get discouraged by our combos. A lot of them seem deceptive, and as if they're not true. I've been failing to catch people under 50 with center DI playing online. They don't look it, but they definitely require a lot of timing and precision.

    They're not free, but hell as worth.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    I've been trying to practice them more. I did actually land a D-throw>kick on that zzs guy's Wario at like 50, so I'm getting a little better at landing. I'm just not particularly great at landing them out of a full hop yet. And I still need to land D-Tilt for those combos in the first place. Reading DI out of D-throw is also difficult, because a lot of people still don't seem to know how to DI out of them consistently or at all yet. So it can be difficult to read habits in that regard.
    My Kirby main friend says other Zeldas really need to step it up. He seems to believe Kirby loses by -2 or even -3...latter a bit exaggerated, but he's pretty convinced on the former.

    also can kill heavies at 40-50 at the ledge with D Throw > Kick. Learn this and you'll be a nightmare.
    Oz
    Oz
    So, what do you think? Was he good? Was a little hard to judge at the time. I was newer, had little to no experience against Wario and there was some mild lag.
    Oz
    Oz
    He's a Youtuber, by the way.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    Welp, it seems it didn't get recorded and neither did a lot of other recent ones. I might have run out of space without realizing. Guess some cleaning is in order.

    He was pretty good. Probably one of, if not the best Wario, I've played. I may not be remembering correctly, but I think the only real complaint, would be he didn't try to edgeguard enough. I've faced a better Wario in that regard, but I don't think there was any Wario I played, that was that difficult to KO and could pressure me that much. I did end up winning both matches, but he definitely made me sweat and was living to some ridiculous percents.

    It's a little more difficult to judge him as a player, because I'm not sure he knew the MU and I think it's a bad MU for Wario, but he felt like he should actually be at the GSP he was(around 4.080 mil. I think), and didn't rely on lag. I guess I could say he was about where you would expect a lesser known Smashtuber would be and there's only been a handful of people I've played that were better. There wasn't very much lag, either.
    Did a pseudo Ignis Phantom trap Phantom Slash > D-Air on Kirby's Up-B. I didn't record it because it's probably standard for most Zeldas, but it was cool to achieve.
    I should really start exploiting forcing people into the Slash by 2-Framing them, since I always forget. I also notice a lot of people (myself, mostly) seem to Phantom way too early if they're not going for the 2-Frame. Charging too early means the opponent can just wait it out at the ledge with invincibility.
    Oz
    Oz
    Pretty sure it's easier with Nayru's, since it lasts a lot longer, has invincibility and all that.
    Oz
    Oz
    https://ssbworld.com/watch/?v=jku_gRoFW-Y

    Game 2, I think this person becomes really badass with it. I thought they were a pushover, then they go ahead and do stuff like that...suddenly Phantom becomes really fun.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    The trade off is a higher commit and possible reversal, though. It depends on how quick you can make it down there, relative to the opponent's recovery. That is a good example of how Phantom is used, yeah. The edgeguarding is really good as well, that is something I need to work on.
    Also legit starting to incorporate wavelanding to extend combos. It's insane.
    Oz
    Oz
    I don't care it's lame I want to do cool stuff!!!!
    Oz
    Oz
    I also want to review your matches one day after I get over the 5 min. marker one
    S
    StoicPhantom
    Well, take your time. The others aren't quite as long as the Marth ones. He was just extra campy.
    TOP 5!!!!
    S
    StoicPhantom
    Yeah, I'll get to it in a bit, I need to finish another reply.
    Oz
    Oz
    If I keep this up, Zelda will be BANNED. :D
    S
    StoicPhantom
    Sorry, I'm running a little slow and am having numerous distractions IRL. Good job on getting top 5, you are definitely moving up. I was going to ask about footage, but I see you've already posted them. I'll watch and comment on them tomorrow, I need to sleep for now.
    Do you think there's something I'm missing, when it comes to Up-B? I'm not landing it anywhere as much as I should. And if it's really a Frame 6 move, it should be no short from broken. I don't seem to be landing it, whether it's because they're barely outside of my range (because **** shield pushback) or because it just doesn't come out when it needs to.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    That really depends on what you're doing. Properly spacing sword characters and fast characters with good aerials, are not punishable with Up-B. Some moves simply have too little endlag and some characters simply have way too good DI. Chrom's dash attack is punishable, but his aerials are not as far as I can tell. FW has a large hitbox, but that seems to be more to the sides, so it is not as easy to punish aerials. I tend to watch for improper spacing that puts them into my shield and that is where I get most of my Up-B punishes. Also if you hit them with it when they are in the air, it will pop them at a weird angle, so be ready to adjust the second hit. Try to parry the attacks that do a lot of shield stun instead.

    If you are talking about using it in other ways not OoS, then it is still relegated to a read based move. I meant to try practicing it out of a run, but got sidetracked.

    Overall it is a pretty situational move, despite the good frame data, which is kind of Zelda on the whole sometimes.
    Played a Lucina online yesterday. It was getting annoying how overconfident this guy was behind his wall of hitboxes, and it's not like I couldn't punish them...he attacked so much, I could just Up-B and he'd take it. A lot of my kills just came because the guy kept rolling backwards and Up-B'd into them (yeah I sometimes do that because **** it).
    S
    StoicPhantom
    Lag yo. That move is way too fast for my mediocre Parry skills. I've been thinking about just sitting down and attempting to learn how to parry every relevant move in the game. I can handle swords and slow aerials and moves, like Ganon's, but quick ones still elude me.
    Oz
    Oz
    fun fact I have an easier time parrying fast moves
    Oz
    Oz
    On less half serious, I find just waiting at the ledge a bit longer has done wonders for my ledge getup game. I used to always get punished for either neutral or jump, now I kind of just use every option and go from there. Sometimes I just suicidal jump into a guy spaced for an F-Smash and FF N-Air it.
    Not getting killed by B-Air, Dash Attack and avoiding N-Air = Wario MU done
    Oz
    Oz
    also U-Tilt but a person with half a brain will realise they don't string after like 2 consecutives and can probably airdodge out of them so **** it
    S
    StoicPhantom
    Pretty much. I didn't realize he was supposed to be so good at first, until everyone was saying so, and I think that was because Zelda's disjoints shut him down pretty hard.
    One thing I have with Phantom, is that I don't feel it adds to much I already do in neutral. I have trouble approaching, and it's very rare that I'd be the one forcing an approach. With that said, I sometimes feel I give off the impression my Zelda is kind of bareboned without any use of projectiles. In spite of that, I fairly well without these.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    I can see that, given what I've seen of your videos. Try experimenting with them as edgeguarding tools.
    Oz
    Oz
    I'm barebone? ),:
    S
    StoicPhantom
    Lol no, I meant I can see Phantom not being particularly useful. I guess I didn't quite give the proper context lulz.
    Likes: Oz
    Comp video coming up.
    Oz
    Oz
    Did you see it.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    Yeah, I just hadn't gotten around to commenting on it, yet. Pretty great video and definitely better made than mine. Definitely the best I've seen so far.
    Oz
    Oz
    I can't beat 'dem Phantom setups man.

    I got none.
    I'm back in Argentina, now. Couldn't make the last weekly, and I was kind of upset about it. It really sucks you need a car for everything, in the U.S (Florida, at least?). Regardless, I'm not here to bash about other people's countries. Only thing I can do, is move on forward. Better planning, next time.

    welp, guess I'll dedicate myself as a fraud Zelda main with Youtube videos. :D
    S
    StoicPhantom
    That's pretty much how it is all across the U.S. We are a big country and have this weird mentality where we want first world infrastructure, but don't want to pay for it lol. So a lot of public transportation and infrastructure, has been overlooked and neglected.
    U-air is probably my new favoutite move.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    Yeah, I remember I used to think she had poor anti-air, but boy was I wrong.
    Oz
    Oz
    Talking about anti airs, just U-Tilt. Haven't been U-airimg nearly enough. Starting to get a better hang off juggling when you really bug people coming off platforms with stuff like N-air. Inkling is becoming more doable .
    S
    StoicPhantom
    Yeah, that's been my experience in the Inkling MU, is to juggle and Nair quite often. I actually think Up-Tilt is a very oppressive move, when done right and I can make even the fast characters sweat pretty hard.
    So apparently wireless controllers are going extinct here in Florida. Since they lock up the consoles as a safety measure, it's pretty much limited to GC controllers and Switch Pro (forgot the requirement if wire or not). I had to adjust before the tournament, but gladly I did it pretty naturally (as opposed to my first 2-3 days). Not sure what I'll end up sticking with, but it's a heads up.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    Welp, RIP. Don't you have to plug the Switch Pro in the console, though? Do they already have some connected? If not then I would think you would be allowed to plug in an adapter. That definitely sucks for us players, that aren't with the GC controller meme.
    Got into Elite, today. Played that **** for hours... it was fun. I even played against this Zzs guy, a Wario main that has a noticeable Youtube channel.

    My hands hurt, and I have my first weekly here to tomorrow. I might take my Switch for a free entry...
    S
    StoicPhantom
    Yeah, Elite can be pretty good. I kind of waffle in and out of it, due to all the sword and speedy characters in it. I do well, then something jank happens and my opponent barely pulls out a win. I take a much greater GSP loss, than I do a gain, so it can be a little tedious making my way back to Elite.
    Oz
    Oz
    Is there something that tells you whether youre in youre out? I think theres a point where youd get too caught up in the scoring, that you dont necessarily play better trying to keep it. Playing not to lose is not the same as playing to win.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    It will say Elite or solo depending on which one you are in. There is a specific number that keeps increasing, that determines Elite status. I'm not too worried about my status, just I'm a little too good for anything under and it sometimes feels like I am picking on those not as good. I have to go on a pretty big win streak in order to make any real progress and a loss can be anywhere from 50-100,000 GSP. As such, it can be rather tedious making my way back in.
    Oz
    Oz
    Damn.
    Oz
    Oz
    It's a little hard to avoid getting hit by Inkling, not gonna lie. Their aerials hit at very weird angles, and it takes a decent amount of timing to catch either their grounded approaches or their aerials. I'll definitely work on getting hit less.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    Inkling is a problem for everyone in general, I think. On paper, its lacking aerial mobility and range, should be enough to exploit, but in practice, as you said, weird angles make it difficult to actually catch them. I guess this why practical experience is necessary and why fighting games still need tweaks and balance patches, even with good and careful design.
    Apparently some people I play against legitimately think Zelda's LK hitbox has been buffed, because "it didn't land that often". I just think this is their first time playing a half-decent Zelda that does stuff like Kick OoS and other nonsense.

    And not to flatter myself, either...
    S
    StoicPhantom
    I forgot to mention that you did a Up-B punish on a dash IIRC. I do that too. I wonder if it's because the opponent isn't expecting it or dash has little more lag than it looks?
    Oz
    Oz
    Not only did I not realise, but it must've been on accident, if I did. If it's Dash Attack and Roller, then it makes more sense.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    I may be confused and misremembering, but I thought I made a mental note to mention it, when I saw it. I do that way too frequently, so I got to wondering if there is something to it. It's a read on a dash dance, done just before they dash back or forward, but I feel like that should be safe enough for people to defend against it. Maybe I'm underestimating FW's and Ultimate's speed.
    Did you see it.
    Oz
    Oz
    I actually wanted to save the matches against the guy that happens to be the best, over here. He didn't like it, and gets offended by it...sad, because it was some of my best plays, by far. He did "allow" me to save one, but I wasn't very content with it.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    Ugh, what a jerk. I was actually hoping you were going to post those, so I could see how you fared against Sheik and the supposedly best player there. He clearly has ego issues, it seems.
    Likes: Oz
    Oz
    Oz
    I got a couple cool shots of stuff like Parry >Stagespike D-air > Kick. I also remembered what you said (and only time I did this), D-air > Jump Up-B.
    Something I realise, is that if you have a group of friends and/or training partners, it's far more optimal to have at least one console per three people. With my usual group, I realise constantly rotating Bo3s with 4 people and 1 console kind of held me back. If you get your *** kicked, you have to suck it up and wait an extra 15-20 minutes just to get another shot at it.

    I think I learned this the other day, where we had 3 console for 6 people. I could play 6-7 hours straight, got used to Joycons and got decently better.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    Yeah, that sounds a bit inefficient to have only one console for that many people. I only have one friend that plays Smash currently and I rarely see him now, due to him being busy, so I don't have to worry about that lol.
    No more waifu factor.
    Oz
    Oz
    People ask why I main Zelda, and I have no smart answer.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    She's cute, and nobody uses her or knows how to fight her, maybe? This might be the most difficult thing I've had to answer, so far. You just do, I guess. This subject requires more thought, me thinks.
    Likes: Oz
    Oz
    Oz
    I don't like having to depend on my opponent being bad and/or not knowing. :D
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