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  • Today was the first ranked tournament of the year. I got 17th, which was underwhelming. Could’ve at least pushed into 13, maybe even 9th.

    I played pretty well in a couple of those, though. I upset our 6th seed (vs. my 27th). Literally everybody on the venue became aware and kept congratulating me.

    I was also heavily dominating over my friend with Byleth. It looked a lot like it used to. I even 3-stocked him in one of those.
    I played this C.Falcon that was surprisingly good. He really wasn't mindless rushdown, and even slightly defensive. That's what made it so much harder for me. The dude's neutral was basically a mix of dash dance whiff punish and never really straight off approaching and sitting in shield a lot, but not enough that you can just grab him for free. It's a lot harder than it sounds, at least for Byleth. Zelda can probably just Phantom and he'd have to approach no matter what.
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    He made the matches super long.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    It's rare to find one that isn't aggressively mashing in lag, but when you do, it really gives you more appreciation for what the character can do.

    It's harder than it looks to use Phantom on him. Been finding characters with really high jumps annoying to deal with lately, but Falcon has the ability to mix up his speed, making it even more annoying to pin him down. It's not like you can't outspace him with Phantom, but it's definitely not free, and Falcon Kick is surprisingly good at quickly destroying the earlier charges and punishing Zelda in one swoop.
    Likes: Oz o:
    I don't know what's more humourous, the fact that I was 2-stocking the Pikachu I lost to in bracket (and last week), or the fact that I was doing so well in spite of how hard the matchup can be for Byleth.

    And I still need to tech his Bair stagespike better.
    All this talk about Byleth, I'm not really ever dropping Zelda. I should get back to her soon enough. I have this bad habit of using like 90% of a new character for at least a whole month, but then it just takes a toll on my Zelda's progress (even going as far as to rust). Happened with my Joker phase, Banjo, and so on...

    I'll try and go half and half next time.
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    Never thought she needed them, aside from maybe one of giving her a real grab (faster frame data) or just shortening the frames in her dash so she can shield and approach more safely while also being able to use her 1.958 speed.

    The buffs are very reasonable, on the sense that it amplifies strengths she already had, but it’s not like this thing that suddenly makes her jump a few tiers.
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    StoicPhantom
    An hour of Zelda a day, keeps the rust away. Or something like that.

    100% agree on the buffs. People are acting like she's going to jump substantially, but I don't see anything that suggests that. Up-air is pretty nice though.
    Likes: Oz o:
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    StoicPhantom
    Madame Lesley Madame Lesley Keep at it, it takes a while before she clicks and you start to do well with her.
    As much as I bash online, I've been kicking some royal ass crack in these last 2-3 days. Yes, this means Byleth. My spacing has gotten somewhat noticeably better (a little tip I'll explain later), and I'm doing significantly better in campy matchups (which are especially worse online). There was a pretty decent Isabelle player I faced the first week, and I basically couldn't do anything. He was like 80+% Side B, and that's all it took to win... but yesterday, I faced the same matchup against another solid Isabelle. He won the first match handily, about 2-0. Then I adapated far better and it's mostly due to spacing and namely FH fastfall Fair. It covers a lot space, and can be really good against a lot of things, and even a couple of projectiles since the tip just goes through them.

    I'm also far, far better at the Byleth ditto than I was during the first week or so. I used to lose to the absolute worst people, but now I rarely lose the ditto. I even 3-stocked a fairly decent player earlier.
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    I said this with Zelda, but your character is only as slow as you, the player, are. Byleth might not be too different, in that regard. Just stick to the fast, non-comittal and safe/consistent moves, and you'll be a lot faster. A lot people waste too much time with the "big" moves, like Side B, Fsmash and even Down B. Even going offstage to try and spike in the ditto (and other tethers) is far too inconsistent. I just run off and Fair, and kills ridiculously early and far more consistently. Hell, even Nair is better.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    The online giveth and the online taketh away, I find. Played amazing earlier this week, but the last couple days have been absolute **** as far as online bull**** goes. But then I got some okay and some actually good connections earlier and started doing well again. Actually spiked a G&W recovery with Zelda Dair and he immediately disconnected lol.
    Likes: Oz o:
    I've managed to stick around up until almost 12 a.m in the venue, which was all the way until Grand Finals ended. I was doing far better than I was after taking that hit in WR1. My last set was perfectly doable (even considering Pikachu-Byleth), but I'm dumb and still dropped it. It was pretty disappointing, but I realise that at least having instant access to friendly setups makes it go away quick...especially when you're kicking ass.

    I also got to play three of our better plays (Top 2 & 4, respectively), and it was pretty fun. I usually never get to play them, and I've been recommended to play different people. It also felt nice somewhat putting myself back on the map a bit. I can tell I wasn't a pushover when they stuck around a couple of matches.
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    StoicPhantom
    Good stuff. Did you feel like you were getting better playing those top players? And did you feel less pressure playing friendlies? If nothing else, you might have fun playing friendlies instead of competing, so it might not be a bad idea to stick around more often, if you have the time. It could end up being a good balance between the pressures of competing and getting good and simply just enjoying the game.
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    There’s a guy from the u.S over here. He’s already won the last two weeklies. He goes by the tag C.Kaleb. He’s told me he’s beaten people like Sinji, ZeroTwoNone and AceAttorney (another Zelda player).

    I invited him over to my place, and we’ve had a hangout. He’s going to be staying in Argentina for the next 4 months, so it’ll likely be more common.

    He tells me he finds my “peak” to be better than he is, which is flattering. I went mostly Byleth because my Zelda is kind of rusty.
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    StoicPhantom
    I see he's a Pacman player. That's pretty interesting overall, maybe he can provide some interesting practice. At least you have third party confirmation that you are still good at the game.
    I literally haven't tried Zelda since Byleth came out, at least until now. *Jesus*, that Uair buff is definitely noticeable. I sent Dr.Mario really damn high up at only 75, like he could just die at 80 (and not even super high up). And F-Tilt? Got a kill(cam) at about 120 center stage.
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    StoicPhantom
    Up-air legit kills light to middleweights at or under 100. I grounded a Game & Watch player solely because he would lose his stock every time he hung around in the air lol. I haven't gotten to testing it, but I think the sourspot can confirm into the sweetspot. Not that I regularly miss the sweetspot with how huge the hitbox is lol.

    Had a Pikachu with godlike DI live to a sweetspot F-Tilt at 120 on a Battlefield stage, but he was like a couple percent away from certain doom. Not to mention how easy it is to land Din's and that the Phantom shield break combos are back.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    This is definitely an amazing patch, and not because of Nair buffs either. Every issue I had with those kill moves was resolved, and even though I'm not seeing anything game changing, I'm killing people a lot quicker and that makes matches less uncertain and less prone to narrow losses.
    My hands ****ing hurt and I'm tired of all these Byleth dittos...at least I'll be ready for them, so it's something. Looks like I'm getting the hang of it.
    He's definitely slow as hell, but it looks like I can manuever with a couple of traps.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    I did play Byleth a bit and the speed seems fine. Even if you can't chase, you'll still trap your opponent at the ledge all the same. Side-B is kind of nuts and is a really good anti-air and anti-platform tool strangely enough. Dair seems really good at spiking bad recoveries and covers like the entire ledge. My first fight against Byleth was with Falcon and even though I bodied him, he got two spikes on my recovery lol.

    It took me a bit to figure out neutral, but I'm starting to get the hang of it. It's kind of amusing how people trying to avoid Byleth's range, tend to put themselves in the perfect spot for tippers. Not to mention how scary it is to edgeguard, knowing Up-B can instantly spike you. I pulled off some sick Dair spikes on Byleth regardless, but I have been Up-B spiked a couple times.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    I'll need some more practice, but I like this character overall.
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    I find it really to hard to FF Bair at the lowest, but it'll be really useful. I basically couldn't do it the first day, but I'm getting the hang of it. I try practicing by hitting Pichu consistently. A basic ledge setup is fully spaced Bair and then you can cover roll with either grab or U-Smash and jump with Uair or retreating FH Bair.
    Who would win,

    A compilation of badass Zelda plays literally no one else is doing.

    Or another G&W #9 clip you've seen since Brawl.
    I think tonight was one of the first weeklies in a long time where I don't feel like giving up, and thereby not horrible. Underwhelming result? Yeah, but I don't care. I've learned not to give up. I realise that the "bad times" are just an illusion from The Universe thrown at you, as a way of testing you. That's all it is, an illusion- albeit, a persistent one.

    At least I beat one of my bracket demons......going Corrin. Funny, how the only two times I beat him was going Corrin (against Cloud). I also switched off of Zelda to Corrin against another Cloud I faced in Losers.
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    thanks lesley
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    StoicPhantom
    Maybe you can keep Corrin as a pocket. Regardless, I think improving your mindset is a sign of good improvement, so you can be proud of that. It would be nice to have a good run, but that isn't always going to happen, so being able to shake it off is going to be essential, regardless of how good a player you are.
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    My Corrin is no mere pocket.
    I'm sorry, I really wanted to get back to our PM a while ago, but it seems I've put it off for so long, that I'd end up forgetting. We have a tendency to keep things long and detailed, which is why we tend to take our time and not just go with a simple 5 minute response (generally).

    There's still some things I'd go about my combos, and you're more than welcome to borrow from it. There's a reason why I don't show it to absolutely everyone.
    I'm obsessed with Byleth I need help I can't wait another 8 days to see if I'm going to use him or not I don't want him to be my new Corrin.
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    I'm very read-based, haven't you seen? I main Zelda and still use Corrin. I've also mained Bowser and somewhat use Krool in this game, solidly. I feel like I can get around, depending on the final outcome.
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    StoicPhantom
    I guess I wasn't very clear, but I was referring to Byleth's lack of mobility and Sakurai stated poor grab speed, which I know are things you aren't fond of. Frame data too, and from what I can tell, he's slower than Robin in the air as well as slow on the ground. Robin actually has decent air speed and good frame data, just lacks ground speed, which people always overblow as an issue. Byleth seems to be mediocre at best in all of those, and is probably closer to Hero in that regard.

    So I'm not saying you won't be able to handle Byleth, just that you might not want to.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    FWIW aerials seem pretty good on range, so you could easily outspace your opponents and play a long range game, which is what looks like Byleth will be about. That's what I'm kind of excited about, because Smash doesn't have many long range characters and it will be interesting to have more diversity in playstyle. Guess we'll find out in a few days.
    Do you have any advice about the whole situation when practicing with my friend? It's like he always keeps the exact count of wins and losses, and that honestly annoys me. I want to practice, not just focus on winning. When you play the same person over and over, at least 3 times a week for years, I doubt just knowing the matchup against them will get you far. I honestly just want to get rid of my ego and not be afraid to try new things, without the fear of losing.

    I think by the way you tell me, the situation between you and your friend, it honestly sounds a lot like we used to be in the first few months. I felt very dominant, only losing a few matches each session (very few, in comparison). However, when I started trying out Joker, and then Banjo, I feel he made quite a jump during the time, between my having to re-train Zelda to keep up until now.
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    WOW, it's just LIKE THAT. It annoys me when he gets in on his head that he's suddenly superior. >8[ That's why he's been doing a lot worse than me throughout the year, because he's just focused on learning the matchup against me instead of trying new things.
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    StoicPhantom
    That used to be my friend too. He would do well against me, but would fall apart against others. He eventually shaped up and really tried hard, but I was already pretty far ahead of him.
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    Picture this: you and your friend are playing really well. You one-up each other constantly, you know how to read each other and your habits.
    But then your friend just loses to some guy he "shouldn't" lose to in WR1. And then he wonders, how is it that he's not improving?
    My online ran out. ),:
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    StoicPhantom
    So am I. Played some online today for the first time in a few months. It's as cancerous as I left it. Somehow still did alright, even though I felt very slow due to the lack of muscle memory. Managed to make a Megaman leave immediately with the most sudden Up-B OoS finish.
    Likes: Oz o:
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    But did your membership run out? ):
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    StoicPhantom
    No, but I didn't cancel it either and I guess I've payed for the last few months of not playing. >_>
    That ledge trick with Phantom is sooooooo good. Applied it all throughout, yesterday. I basically get off the ledge for free.

    I don’t know if that alone made a difference, but I was beating my Wario friend like 7 or 8-0 at one point. Keep in mind that for the last 3 months he’s been consistently beating me like 80+% of matches. I’ve even gotten like 2-3 2 stock matches.
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    StoicPhantom
    Just be careful as some brave types with fast characters will blitz you and get a kill. I sometimes get complacent and die because I'm too close or predictable.
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    Hasn't failed me, so far. It's basically a free get off ledge.
    my pseudo solution to people landing quick with shield:

    https://streamable.com/vfqri

    Just pretend he didn't hold shield for half a 2nd, but the idea is there. He tends to fall and quickly shield, and that was my problem with it or stuff like directional airdodge away (solid punish if read) or jump.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    Good mixup. I wish more people would do things like this, it'd make things more interesting and make things not as tedious as they are online.
    Likes: Oz o:
    Still haven't fully dedicated into learning Telecancels, but I'm still keeping a couple of tabs open. I really want to have this, at one point. There's this guy on Twitter that's basically mastered them. He should be a contender for Top 5 Zeldas, and he's better than most others. Take a look at his stuff:

    https://twitter.com/katyparries/

    I don't know why he idolizes ven. He legitimately seems better (no offense).
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    Also, check out JP. I'm currently not on the Zelda discord, but he's the only one I talk to.

    https://twitter.com/_JP53

    He posts a ton of clips on general utility.
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    StoicPhantom
    I'll check these out when I have time. Still need to help my friend and brother build their PCs, but I should be free to do what I want soon. I've seen a few of these before, good stuff.
    Likes: Oz o:
    My friend called me out on me killing myself trying to do the Teleport cancels, but how else are you to practice them, if not in a real match? You can't expect to just perfect techniques by being comfterble against a static opponent in Training Mode.

    I proceeded to double 3 stock him out of annoyance.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    You just got to bully your friend hard with them, once you've mastered it. My friend still makes fun of me on the rare occasion I **** up my recovery, but I still body him 99% of the time.
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    It’s stuff like this, getting over this, that makes the real winners. I haven’t reached that point yet, but you’ll be unstoppable when you stop being afraid.
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    You know, ego and all.
    What’s your stance on the Nair thing? I never had as much issues as people claim.
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    StoicPhantom
    I can't say I really understand people's issues with it. I've played skilled players that never DI out of it and it's really rare I have anyone fall out of it. I honestly don't understand the issue.

    The only thing I can think of, is people trying to drag down Nair like Smash 4 Zelda. But they should know that won't work by now and Nair -> Up-B wasn't exactly an easy or common combo to land back then either.
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    I’ve had the same experiences, though I admit it’s only been an issue as of late, but that’s mostly because I’m not DI properly myself. For example, they easily fall out if you do something like SH Nair sharing under a platform. Had to do with how you do it, and I’m pretty sure it’s mostly people using it wrong.

    That said, they’re partly not to blame, considering Palutena gets it for free, but whatever.
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    StoicPhantom
    Pretty much the only time I had that happen was when I was concentrating too hard and forgot to take my thumb off the stick lol.
    Finally getting to practice Teleport cancels. :D Some of them are a lot simpler than they look. I'll see if I can make a visual cue sort of list. The ones from the center of the stage are the least consistent and riskiest, I feel. There are a least 2-3 you might be able to pull off consistently. The one falling from the respawn platform and the ones sliding off a platform are really easy.
    I totally get ZeRo now, after all of this. I totally get it. I honestly feel good for him. This whole time, I wanted him to come back and do his thing, but it's very clear he's a lot better off not even bothering with this. He makes more money, he's having fun and he has a huge weight off his shoulders.

    Only difference is he actually accomplished something at the end of the day.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    And so I remembered that Smash is something I love and that's why I play it and I don't need to endure all that nonsense to play it. Even if I ever managed to get to the point where I could make it to a major and win it, I don't really see myself ever continuing to seriously compete. Once in a while would be fine, but I would absolutely hate traveling on a weekly basis. I flew once and hated it, I don't really want to have to do it frequently.
    Likes: Oz o:
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    StoicPhantom
    Speaking of which, my workload is starting to diminish and I managed to play a little bit the other day. I'm surprised at how much I've retained, even though I haven't played for two months. I just had a lot to do and then had a lot of unexpected things dumped on me and so I haven't much time to do anything Smash related.

    Hoping to get everything done by the new year and then being able to relax for a bit. It was a nice break from the stagnation and frustration of online, but I've been missing Smash recently, so want to get back into the swing of things again.
    Likes: Oz o:
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    This is not to be mistaken; people shouldn't have to feel bad about competiting... if you want to, that is. I just think that, unlike myself, you shouldn't have to force yourself to do it because "it's the only way to be good". A lot of my usual practice buddies pretty much think like this since the start. They're about tournament, results and having to "prove" yourself through it.

    Our previous best, he's actually one of our friends. He's dominated the scene for 5-6 years, uncontested. He was always the one pushing that kind of mentality.
    like yeah even keeping what you said in mind, it just feels like a waste of time and money at this point. I'm just going through the motions. If I'm going to lose, I'd rather at least play hundreds of friendlies where I can try again and at least not compromising the little dignity I have in my plays.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    That's totally understandable, especially as you haven't been happy with it. Hopefully you can find an enjoyable way to play.
    Likes: Oz o:
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