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  • For the first time in a while, I did not terrible at a weekly. And not only that, I actually managed to enjoy it, overall. Input delay is still there, but it looks like I'm somewhat getting used to it. Try to push as much as I could, and I didn't do poorly (still could've gotten farther, honestly). I legitimately felt like I could've beaten #1 seed, and Game 2 was definitely in my favour.

    Like, I felt so good just winning a WR1 set. Even though it's something well within my capacity, I still felt grateful after so much being held back. And not only that, I played overall solid, at least when I got my advantage. I pulled a 60+% combo a couple of times on different players, and that's something I wasn't doing in bracket before. So as far as bracket goes, it's definitely progress.

    3-2, could've easily gone at least an extra round if I actually knew what Sora does.
    Zelda's USmash officially kills under 100 now, so I might have a real reason to start using it. Her Jab 1 also has less cooldown, which is the buff I appreciate the most.
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    StoicPhantom
    None of the moves are ones you are going to use often, but they are actually useful when you do now. I don't feel like I made a mistake when I get an Up-Smash read anymore.
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    USmash was definitely solid, at worst. I just personally never liked it as a whole, but it still killed reasonably early and it was one of our fastest OoS moves.
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    StoicPhantom
    Adaptation is really the most important. You can't play how you want to play all the time in Ultimate, unfortunately.
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    He thinks that you basically have to play lame most of the time, and I think it's an exaggeration.
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    StoicPhantom
    A lot of Ultimate players seem to think people should just always run into their hitboxs and subsequently define anyone not doing that as "playing lame". Being more cautious and defensive where required isn't lame. There's a lot of middle between hyperaggression and sitting at the ledge in shield lol.
    I don't think I've seen anyone kill with Bthrow as much as I do with Zelda (or even use it). It's really damn good to have, and I kill at about 110 on average. It's basically Ness Bthrow sometimes.
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    StoicPhantom
    I think having a kill throw is the most important move you can have. There's pretty much no top tier that doesn't have a kill throw or a throw that has a highly likely kill follow up. It really hurts to play characters without one given the natural instinct is to keep in shield when at high percents.
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    gaw, Fox and Sephiroth are example of higher tier characters without one (at least Sephiroth has a shield breaker)
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    StoicPhantom
    Both of those characters clearly struggle sometimes with closing out a stock, though. You can watch Tweek or Light and they can struggle with landing a kill sometimes.
    Can't say I'm a huge Sora fanboy, but the reveal made me kind of content. It just felt like one of the most natural and expected reveals, like I couldn't even be mad it wasn't Bandana Dee (I'm just being realistic). He's one of those characters that just deserved to be in.
    Realised I made the mistake with Kazuya to solely focus on my combo game, and I didn't practice other things, like his mobility. And to be fair, Kazuya has a lot of "freestyle" in his combos as it is, and probably more than people realise. I got so caught up in the true combos, and it's not like I ever performed one of them in a real match.
    I don't think many people realise, but Zelda not only is one of the best ledgetrappers in the game, but also really good at edgeguarding. There's not that many characters that can edgeguard Marth/Lucina, but I've done it consistently.
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    Oz o:
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    Imagine thinking she's Low tier. Dabuz put her at Bottom 10 next to ****ing Dr.Mario.
    Oz o:
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    I usually don't care, but you'd expect more from the "big brain" man himself.
    The best comparison from playing bad in tournament is like comparing live singers to their studio version. Does that mean the studio version doesn't count? v:
    Oz o:
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    I don't know about arbitrary in that sense, but I'm sure people with social anxiety are far from uncommon. It's rare you'll be in the middle of a stage, unless it's a supermajor and you're up against a top level player.
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    StoicPhantom
    I meant that being good means that you do well at tournaments is a pretty arbitrary distinction made by people. I did not word that last post properly lol.
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    yeah that's true
    The concept of burst range is a very recurring theme to me, as of late. It's not I never really learned, or payed attention to, and it seems like the key to not getting hit by random moves. I have trouble seeing that people really see things like that, like a "threat bubble" as they're playing. It's something that I would've never learned naturally, but it helps to simplify neutral a bit.
    Brawl was lit
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    It's underrated as a competitive game, I'll give you that. Doesn't seem as slow as people make it out to be. A friend even went as far as to say Smash 4's mechanics felt slower, it's just that the playstyle encouraged combos (Brawl had almost no combos). The Mid tiers as a whole were very interesting, and even most of the High tiers. Only matches that were ridiculously campy and boring was stuff like MK-ICs, and things of that nature. It didn't really always go down that route, some people exaggerate it.

    And the MK thing is also exaggerated, at least to an extent. People make it seem like he killed Brawl, and using him is the only way to beat him or do well. ICs killed the meta far faster than MK did in the first years, and they were kind of comparable to Bayonetta (except they actually required skill to use). Seeing MK-ICs GFs was just really damn boring. ICs singlehandedly shutdown a ton of characters, while MK was mostly a neutral based character with good advantage, but it's not like he just 0 deathed you out of every interaction.

    I was really good at the MK matchup, and so were a couple of my friends, going as far as to being able to go even and even beat -2/-3 matchups consistently. It's the reason why I think people have no reason calling a -1 "hard" nowadays.
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    StoicPhantom
    What made ICs so dominant in that game? Was it wobbling or did they have something else that made them strong?
    Oz o:
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    That's virtually it. They could 0 death every single character in the game, in a game where grabbing is a lot easier (mostly because grab armor). They had desyncs, but they always had that. Lastly, apparently Nanna was harder to seperate than Ultimate.
    I am going to take Rocky III as an example of my current journey. He had to re adjust and get good at one of the most basic aspects of boxing, which is actually dodging and better defense. He couldn't beat Clubber Lang (Mr.T) by just being his usual "brawler" style.
    I don't understand why it almost seems that people in Ultimate encourage panic options. Playing Brawl and Smash 4, I was always encouraged to do the opposite, and to always react and think before doing a defensive option- and since you can't react to everything in Ultimate, a lot of things are done preemptively, which can basically lead into that.

    So no, doing "nothing" isn't always what it seems. I always prioritize things like DI and reaction, and then choose an option.
    Oz o:
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    I wasn't even using Roll until Ultimate, really. It's been beaten so hard into me since I was a n00b in Brawl, that I just stopped using it altogether, because it used to be a lot worse and easier to punish. But now Shield Drop is a lot worse, and Roll is sadly like a universal top tier OoS option now... v:
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    StoicPhantom
    I am referring to fast falling the airdodge, but that's also where it is the most significant to avoid an attack in the first place. Past a certain point the knockback growth from higher percents and the launch speed inherent to Ultimate make juggling impossible without really going high in the air. You'd either have to full hop/double jump or wait for them to land in order to continue hitting them. Both of those situations are where you are vulnerable to potentially being reversed by an airdodge. It's not like Melee where the launch and hitstun allow for lots of juggling.

    Some characters like Zelda have kill aerials that can hit people from that position, but that's more the exception to the norm. Most characters juggling further is either pointless because you are only racking up damage or are simply too slow to react to DI and positioning changes to safely continue.


    With the Mario example I am speaking of not just landing attacks, but also doing them out of the corner or shield and a variety of other situations. Snake for example has a similar Bair that makes it difficult to punish his landing in certain cases. A lot of characters have something similar that allows them to force trades or even avoid hits entirely through a combination of hurtbox shifting, quick startup, and burst speed. Zelda's LKs come out super quick, shift her hurtbox, and pancakes her to the ground all at once. It's not that bad of a move to throw out if you are already in a bad situation.
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    Talking about the Kicks, I realise they're arguably your safest poke on shield. I consistently avoided Mario's USmash and did things like Kick > Dtilt. I always used Nair for hitting shields, but it's -9 at the very best, and you're always right next to them. Even considering a crossup, there are still many characters that can punish that. Zelda's pancakes after the Kicks are very useful, as you mention.
    The human will
    That force unseen
    The offspring of a deathless soul
    Can hew away to any goal
    The walls of granite intervene
    Be not impatient delay, but
    Wait as one who understands
    When spirit rises and demands
    The Gods are ready to obey
    I never understood this idea, that just because you really care about Smash and really want to improve, that you're somehow looking or expecting to make a living off of it. To me, it's just a hobby, but it doesn't mean I don't want to hone it as best as I can. I'm sure there are people who love doing a certain sport, and it doesn't mean they want to be top level atheletes.

    I honestly would never want to live off of Smash, because it sounds stressful, having to constantly do well to make your pay. The people who do that are actually very few, and it's not like they don't depend on part time streaming to make up for it.
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    StoicPhantom
    I think it is because people nowadays associate investment into anything that doesn't strictly make money as a waste of time. Sort of trying to soothe an insecurity that nothing they do has any meaning or value in it and trying to use money as a way of giving what they do a purpose. "Video games are a waste of time and you should go do something productive instead." says your parents. "But mom, you can make money from playing games now!" says you.

    But has anyone ever stopped to consider whether or not making money from playing games ever brought real value to anyone? That people were essentially doing the same thing ten years ago that they are now demanding money to do? That you are now effectively commodifying a social activity that everyone does for free? That this move towards monetization is ultimately arbitrary and thus has no inherent meaning or purpose to it?


    I too, wouldn't want to make money off of my hobbies. If only because I would never truly be able to enjoy them without obsessively worrying about whether the market would want me to do this even when I want to do that and I would essentially have to gatekeep people to enjoy with based on whether I could monetize our activities or not. I like doing them, so it stands to reason that I would not only invest a significant amount of time in them, but I also would want to be good at them (if applicable).
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    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    yeh this stupid notion that money is the only way to define "success". I got news for you, money won't always make you happy, unless it happens to be that it's part of your dream plan.
    Mikey D. says players who plateau around midlevel think they need some sort of important outbreak or "moment" to suddenly break through it, but it's more that they need to tweak on certain areas of their game seperately than one whole area at a massive scale.
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    Oz o:
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    I relate to that, because I honestly did think it was that way for a long time.
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    StoicPhantom
    That's probably accurate. There isn't that much difference between player tiers after a certain point and it usually comes down to small things. One common thing I've noticed is that top level players are just a bit more patient than those who languish in top 32/64.
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    Mid level players can take a game off a top player, even if it's once in a set. It's not like this thing where top players automatically 3 stock free, unless they are really used to your playstyle. Their difference is in the small things, as you say.
    Analyzing matches changes so damn much, and I can't believe how long it took me to actually do it. Not only was I always skeptical of what it can do, but it's also that I overcomplicate it and pause like every frame because I had no idea how to see the big picture. I always overthink it, instead of catching on to patterns.
    Finished playing with my friend just now. I definitely feel pretty consistent, which shouldn't be as strange by now. Even with Kazuya, I still drop stuff, but I feel like I'm definitely improving that (just not at the rate I'd like to).
    Only thing I'm disappointed about, is not getting last place. I need something to rub on everyone else's face once I make it big. : D
    I'm Mr. Doctor Man
    Who questions his hands
    Lost his mind
    But is clinically fine
    He found a way to cope
    Needle in his throat
    Falling down,
    But his world is spinning round
    Is this true.
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    I personally don't find anything wrong with fairs or any sort of entertainment and cultural things relating to farm activities. It's nice people still do those things, because it's closer to old values and still reminds you of natural things. My mother was born in a rural area, so that kind of stuff still sounds natural to me.
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    StoicPhantom
    Nah, it is funny and there are cringe aspects as with any culture. You find it funny on a surface level, as you should, but I have the cultural context to know that people like that sincerely believe it and look down on those people.

    Basically, there's a huge cultural rift between the coasts and the rest of the US. There's a rather complex history as to why, but they do not like each other. The coasts, namely New York and California, have most of the wealth in the country (as they'll gloat about) while the rest have rather little overall outside of some specific wealthy areas. The Midwest was largely manufacturing and farmland until the globalization pushed by the Reagan and the Clinton administrations (coastal elites) destroyed the Midwestern economy by sending manufacturing jobs to China and other places.

    There's quite a lot of resentment and bitterness towards the coastal elites as a result. Not only did these elites get wealthy off this destruction, but they really rub it in with things like giving the Midwest the derogatory nickname "flyover states" or the section of the country only good for flying over when you travel from one coast to the other. It further makes that region feel abandoned now that they are no longer relevant in the economy. The coasts basically regard everyone else as uncultured and vulgar peasants that are a constant source of embarrassment for them and the country. You wouldn't know this because practically all media from the US is centered around the coasts and their interpretation of the country.

    I think light ribbing and poking fun at other cultures is healthy and keeps them humble. And "cow pie discus", or cow chips as we would say, is cringe and gross even for a lot of us who live here. My problem is more that I can tell Coney is one of those coastal types that look down on our region. He tries to cover it by saying he just doesn't understand, but you can tell by looking at his body language and tone. That other guy was looking and acting pretty uncomfortable when this conversation came up, and he was quick to point out he was from Omaha (big city) instead of the more rural western Nebraska, to try and save face. Because shaming these regions is so common in US media, a lot of people feel embarrassed admitting they came from those regions when they are trying to fit in. When he didn't push back is when Coney really started going in completely oblivious to the other guy's discomfort.

    So the issue goes deeper than just ribbing on goofier aspects of Midwestern culture and is more about cultural fault lines in the US. The coasts think everyone as else as unwashed luddites while the rest of the US think of them as pompous, arrogant elitists that look down on people from their ivory towers. I don't really care if people poke fun at the more ridiculous aspects of Midwestern culture, but it is always done in a way as if the coasts are somehow paradises and everyone else is worse off for not living there. I'd personally rather not pay exorbitant amounts of money to live in filthy, overcrowded cities where consumption and consumerism is the only attraction. The fact that he had to bring up Times Square and their Best Buys not closing at 8:00 was because there really isn't anything of real cultural value in those areas: they're one giant parking lot.

    I'm all for poking fun at ourselves and each other, but I get annoyed when people pretend their **** doesn't stink.
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    Argentina has some sort of aspect like that, where everything is overcentralized in Buenos Aires, the capital. It's no surprise we only really have one region and locals in Smash, because the other provinces are generally less wealthy and technology isn't as big (not saying they don't have stuff like celphones or videogame consoles), it's just not as common as here.

    The ones from the other provinces sometimes refer to as "porteños", which basically translate to "people that live in the port".
    “For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.”

    -Job 3:25
    I've tried 3 different pairs of Joycons, and I can't really understand if the problem is me or my first pair. I'm trying my first pair, and I feel them really fine right now. I've tried them with Kazuya and then with Zelda, which are the ones I can tell the most. The EWGF timing seems to change a bit between them, but it's mostly due to how the stick feels. Newer sticks are stiffer, and I remembered my first pair feeling like that, but now I feel them being loose honestly helps.

    It's hard, because I'm never really sure where the problem stems from. Since I have three of them right now, I'm trying to at least narrow down to one or two of them as to at least get fully used to it and not have to re-adjust. Is it psychological? Is it physiological? Can't even tell.
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    StoicPhantom
    It might be the diagonal input that is the issue. A stiffer stick might help you feel the timing of the transition of the stick from down to down forward. Mine is pretty bad and it is pretty iffy where I land on the stick. Sometimes I angle tilts when I don't want to and other times I miss it when I do want to.
    Looks like I'm surprisingly good at dash """camping""". I was winning a lot of exchanges and whiff punishing. So much for my "impatience".
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    StoicPhantom
    Sounds like you are on the right track then. Just be careful of doing it too much and your opponent punishing it with a burst option.
    Oz o:
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    naw
    I don't understand how UltimateFrameData says Zelda's Up B is -19 on shield, when I've literally gotten shield drop smash attacked, and many times to count.
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    StoicPhantom
    Landing lag might factor in too. I remember it was something massive like 30 frames.
    Oz o:
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    There's no landing lag if it's grounded. **** is like -30.
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    StoicPhantom
    Ah, when you said -19 I assumed you were talking about the aerial version. Yeah, the ground version is laggy on shield and there definitely is room for a lot of smash attacks.
    I’m a Bad Man
    I’m a I’m a Bad Man
    I’m a Bad Man
    I’m a I’m a Bad Man
    I’m a Bad Man

    I’m a man with a hole where a good man’s conscience used to be
    Walking’ round with a stone cold heart and a curiosity
    Killing like it ain’t no big thing
    I don’t even feel it
    Wash away the blood with a drink in my hand cos
    I’m a man with a whole big plan for the world to fall to me

    I’m a wheeler
    I’m a double dealer
    Tell you that I need you then I’ll love you and I’ll leave you
    Politician
    Demon on a mission
    Tell white lies but you know
    I’m playing both sides
    An abuser
    Beggar and a chooser
    Selling you a win but you’ll always be the loser
    Run for your life lock your doors
    Real tight cos baby I’m a real
    Bad bad bad man​
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    He's a bad man.
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    StoicPhantom
    Is he really that bad though?🤔 (I haven't played Tekken since the early games).
    Oz o:
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    I haven't really played any of them, save maybe when I was really young and I knew nothing about it's lore. To me, it was just a fighting game that had a literal ****ing bear.

    I looked it up, and it says he really is just bad. He used to be a hero before, but now The Devil within consumed him entirely (but apparently he let it).
    Looks like I finally re-adjusted my EWGF timing...after like three weeks. It was a mix of my stick deteriorating and switching to a new one. The timing is definitely different, and it made no sense how I randomly started doing Wind God Fist out of the blue. So frustrating to practice something for over a month, only to randomly start misinputting and having to essentially re-learn the timing.
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    StoicPhantom
    My keyboard doesn't look as good as the Frame1.

    Good video for people that can't afford these, but I don't think I want to worry about the extra wear to my keyboard. I'm ok with the paying the extra for something that'll last me the hours I put into these games.

    Though the point is moot anyways as I guess the Frame1 and the others are severely backlogged. From what I hear it takes people several months to get theirs. I might think about building my own if that is the case lol.
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    I thought the Smashbox had one of those arcade sticks, but it's just buttons. If that's the case, it doesn't seem too different from a keyboard, which are generic and a lot cheaper.

    A Smashbox is literally built for Smash, though, and they're also a lot more aesthetic (if that matters to you).
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    StoicPhantom
    Aesthetics are certainly a plus, but the issue is more ergonomics. Keyboards will work with the layout and are decent alternatives, but they aren't ideal. The problem is a lack of space on the keyboards versus one of the boxes so things became rather cramped. There's just simply not enough space to prevent cramping your hand to hit the those buttons. There's more room on the box which means your hands can move in a more relaxed position.

    I'm going to play around with it when I get a chance, but I can already tell that it won't be great long-term. I think I need a little more vertical space than my keyboard offers. Though my keyboard is on the small side too.
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