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StoicPhantom

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  • Oz o:
    The human will, that force unseen
    The offspring of a deathless soul
    Can hew away to any goal
    Though walls of granite intervene
    Be not in patient delay, but
    Wait as one who understands
    When spirit rises and demands
    The Gods are ready to obey

    Slave never dreams to be free
    Slave only dreams to be King
    Slave never dreams to be free
    Slave only dreams to be King​
    Oz o:
    told you about this weird interaction before, now I got it on video:
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    S
    StoicPhantom
    I've had that happen a few times before too, though it was usually Up-air and sent them more diagonal to the corner.
    Oz o:
    eh **** it online really isn't worth it. Been doing really good strictly offline, online is just a straight up downgrade with no real upsides, other than match frequency. But it's really quality over quantity. Even having fun is hard when wifi noobs are trying too hard to win virtual points, or losing to people way worse than you.

    I just wanted to have fun and get more clips, but it's too much to ask.
    Oz o:
    There was some weird guy I beat him 2-0 and he send me a "friend request" and went through the trouble of changing his name to "learn2play", and I don't really get it, because I even beat him after killing myself at low percents. I remember playing him before, and he seems like one of those guys that just gives up the moment you start beating them.

    I don't get it.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    My friend mentioned something similar that happened to him. Ultimate players are some of the saltiest players I've ever seen.
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    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    Yeah, but doing that to someone beat you in the most legitimate way without abusing lag or wifi tactics, really tells about your character.
    Oz o:
    Pyra is boring.
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    StoicPhantom
    I actually like and main traditional swordies normally, but she's just not viable by herself in this game.
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    Ike just seems like a better version. He falls a lot faster.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    Pyra has more range than Ike. She has to space further out to get around her poor frame data while he has to play closer to make up for his relatively smaller range. They play differently. Though Pyra isn't supposed to be solo viable anyways.
    Oz o:
    I ended up buying Sora. I really liked his Fair/Nair1 cancels into Smash attatcks, and his Smashes are overall my favourite moves he has. I don't like being in the air too much, because he's super floaty.
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    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    Why Bair and Uair. I get Nair and Fair because of the weird effects, but the others should be standard unless they're perfectly spaced or reversed (Uair). If anything, I see his floatiness playing agaisnt him, since he has a harder time landing at the lowest.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    They're both -5 and -6 on shield meaning that it is very easy to poke at shields and drift back. It is very easy to pressure people at the ledge or on platforms when you get used to how you can use his movement. They compliment his other moves pretty well even if they might be more situational on their own.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    You can't think of playing him like you do other characters. He's got a lot of unique movement going for him that plays really well into Ultimate's hurtbox shifting and aerial movement.
    Oz o:
    For the first time in a while, I did not terrible at a weekly. And not only that, I actually managed to enjoy it, overall. Input delay is still there, but it looks like I'm somewhat getting used to it. Try to push as much as I could, and I didn't do poorly (still could've gotten farther, honestly). I legitimately felt like I could've beaten #1 seed, and Game 2 was definitely in my favour.

    Like, I felt so good just winning a WR1 set. Even though it's something well within my capacity, I still felt grateful after so much being held back. And not only that, I played overall solid, at least when I got my advantage. I pulled a 60+% combo a couple of times on different players, and that's something I wasn't doing in bracket before. So as far as bracket goes, it's definitely progress.

    3-2, could've easily gone at least an extra round if I actually knew what Sora does.
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    StoicPhantom
    Sora pretty much just mashes as far as I can tell. Somehow more obnoxious than even Steve is.
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    I don't think so, that wasn't the problem. It's just a mix of the hitbox durarion and how long he is in the air, random things. His floatyness kind of prevents it from being worse.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    That's what I mean. His hurtbox shifting plus multiple hits makes mashing really strong with this character. Not to mention his magic. The character is basically everything wrong with Ultimate and sometimes just completely falls out of things.
    Oz o:
    Zelda's USmash officially kills under 100 now, so I might have a real reason to start using it. Her Jab 1 also has less cooldown, which is the buff I appreciate the most.
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    S
    StoicPhantom
    It was always felt a little underwhelming with how much vulnerability it has and how small the hitbox size is. It felt like any other option would have been better and I almost never killed with it before like 140. Now it feels like it actually kills at a reasonable percentage.
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    It never killedover 140 unless you were like Bowser, and I'm still pretty sure he died at like 130 at best. Like, Mario died around 110 before, no where near that high.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    I was using worst case scenario of Bowser on Battlefield, but I regularly play players with really good DI and I definitely don't get them under 130 unless they're like Pikachu or something. Some stages have a low enough ceiling that you can probably get most characters around there, but it definitely isn't universal among all the stages.

    The bigger issue I have is that it is very risky to go for an Up-Smash in the first place. Given how easy it is to drift around it and how long it takes to startup relative to some of her other moves, it really should have been consistently killing as early as it does now. Up-B or Up-Tilt > Up-air fishing was almost always better from a risk/reward standpoint. Now it legitimately has its own purpose and isn't overshadowed by her other moves.
    Oz o:
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    S
    StoicPhantom
    Adaptation is really the most important. You can't play how you want to play all the time in Ultimate, unfortunately.
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    He thinks that you basically have to play lame most of the time, and I think it's an exaggeration.
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    StoicPhantom
    A lot of Ultimate players seem to think people should just always run into their hitboxs and subsequently define anyone not doing that as "playing lame". Being more cautious and defensive where required isn't lame. There's a lot of middle between hyperaggression and sitting at the ledge in shield lol.
    Oz o:
    I don't think I've seen anyone kill with Bthrow as much as I do with Zelda (or even use it). It's really damn good to have, and I kill at about 110 on average. It's basically Ness Bthrow sometimes.
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    StoicPhantom
    I think having a kill throw is the most important move you can have. There's pretty much no top tier that doesn't have a kill throw or a throw that has a highly likely kill follow up. It really hurts to play characters without one given the natural instinct is to keep in shield when at high percents.
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    gaw, Fox and Sephiroth are example of higher tier characters without one (at least Sephiroth has a shield breaker)
    S
    StoicPhantom
    Both of those characters clearly struggle sometimes with closing out a stock, though. You can watch Tweek or Light and they can struggle with landing a kill sometimes.
    Oz o:
    Can't say I'm a huge Sora fanboy, but the reveal made me kind of content. It just felt like one of the most natural and expected reveals, like I couldn't even be mad it wasn't Bandana Dee (I'm just being realistic). He's one of those characters that just deserved to be in.
    Oz o:
    Realised I made the mistake with Kazuya to solely focus on my combo game, and I didn't practice other things, like his mobility. And to be fair, Kazuya has a lot of "freestyle" in his combos as it is, and probably more than people realise. I got so caught up in the true combos, and it's not like I ever performed one of them in a real match.
    Oz o:
    I don't think many people realise, but Zelda not only is one of the best ledgetrappers in the game, but also really good at edgeguarding. There's not that many characters that can edgeguard Marth/Lucina, but I've done it consistently.
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    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    Imagine thinking she's Low tier. Dabuz put her at Bottom 10 next to ****ing Dr.Mario.
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    I usually don't care, but you'd expect more from the "big brain" man himself.
    Oz o:
    The best comparison from playing bad in tournament is like comparing live singers to their studio version. Does that mean the studio version doesn't count? v:
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    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    I don't know about arbitrary in that sense, but I'm sure people with social anxiety are far from uncommon. It's rare you'll be in the middle of a stage, unless it's a supermajor and you're up against a top level player.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    I meant that being good means that you do well at tournaments is a pretty arbitrary distinction made by people. I did not word that last post properly lol.
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    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    yeah that's true
    Oz o:
    The concept of burst range is a very recurring theme to me, as of late. It's not I never really learned, or payed attention to, and it seems like the key to not getting hit by random moves. I have trouble seeing that people really see things like that, like a "threat bubble" as they're playing. It's something that I would've never learned naturally, but it helps to simplify neutral a bit.
    Oz o:
    Brawl was lit
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    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    It's underrated as a competitive game, I'll give you that. Doesn't seem as slow as people make it out to be. A friend even went as far as to say Smash 4's mechanics felt slower, it's just that the playstyle encouraged combos (Brawl had almost no combos). The Mid tiers as a whole were very interesting, and even most of the High tiers. Only matches that were ridiculously campy and boring was stuff like MK-ICs, and things of that nature. It didn't really always go down that route, some people exaggerate it.

    And the MK thing is also exaggerated, at least to an extent. People make it seem like he killed Brawl, and using him is the only way to beat him or do well. ICs killed the meta far faster than MK did in the first years, and they were kind of comparable to Bayonetta (except they actually required skill to use). Seeing MK-ICs GFs was just really damn boring. ICs singlehandedly shutdown a ton of characters, while MK was mostly a neutral based character with good advantage, but it's not like he just 0 deathed you out of every interaction.

    I was really good at the MK matchup, and so were a couple of my friends, going as far as to being able to go even and even beat -2/-3 matchups consistently. It's the reason why I think people have no reason calling a -1 "hard" nowadays.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    What made ICs so dominant in that game? Was it wobbling or did they have something else that made them strong?
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    That's virtually it. They could 0 death every single character in the game, in a game where grabbing is a lot easier (mostly because grab armor). They had desyncs, but they always had that. Lastly, apparently Nanna was harder to seperate than Ultimate.
    Oz o:
    I am going to take Rocky III as an example of my current journey. He had to re adjust and get good at one of the most basic aspects of boxing, which is actually dodging and better defense. He couldn't beat Clubber Lang (Mr.T) by just being his usual "brawler" style.
    Oz o:
    I don't understand why it almost seems that people in Ultimate encourage panic options. Playing Brawl and Smash 4, I was always encouraged to do the opposite, and to always react and think before doing a defensive option- and since you can't react to everything in Ultimate, a lot of things are done preemptively, which can basically lead into that.

    So no, doing "nothing" isn't always what it seems. I always prioritize things like DI and reaction, and then choose an option.
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    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    I wasn't even using Roll until Ultimate, really. It's been beaten so hard into me since I was a n00b in Brawl, that I just stopped using it altogether, because it used to be a lot worse and easier to punish. But now Shield Drop is a lot worse, and Roll is sadly like a universal top tier OoS option now... v:
    S
    StoicPhantom
    I am referring to fast falling the airdodge, but that's also where it is the most significant to avoid an attack in the first place. Past a certain point the knockback growth from higher percents and the launch speed inherent to Ultimate make juggling impossible without really going high in the air. You'd either have to full hop/double jump or wait for them to land in order to continue hitting them. Both of those situations are where you are vulnerable to potentially being reversed by an airdodge. It's not like Melee where the launch and hitstun allow for lots of juggling.

    Some characters like Zelda have kill aerials that can hit people from that position, but that's more the exception to the norm. Most characters juggling further is either pointless because you are only racking up damage or are simply too slow to react to DI and positioning changes to safely continue.


    With the Mario example I am speaking of not just landing attacks, but also doing them out of the corner or shield and a variety of other situations. Snake for example has a similar Bair that makes it difficult to punish his landing in certain cases. A lot of characters have something similar that allows them to force trades or even avoid hits entirely through a combination of hurtbox shifting, quick startup, and burst speed. Zelda's LKs come out super quick, shift her hurtbox, and pancakes her to the ground all at once. It's not that bad of a move to throw out if you are already in a bad situation.
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    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    Talking about the Kicks, I realise they're arguably your safest poke on shield. I consistently avoided Mario's USmash and did things like Kick > Dtilt. I always used Nair for hitting shields, but it's -9 at the very best, and you're always right next to them. Even considering a crossup, there are still many characters that can punish that. Zelda's pancakes after the Kicks are very useful, as you mention.
    Oz o:
    The human will
    That force unseen
    The offspring of a deathless soul
    Can hew away to any goal
    The walls of granite intervene
    Be not impatient delay, but
    Wait as one who understands
    When spirit rises and demands
    The Gods are ready to obey
    Oz o:
    I never understood this idea, that just because you really care about Smash and really want to improve, that you're somehow looking or expecting to make a living off of it. To me, it's just a hobby, but it doesn't mean I don't want to hone it as best as I can. I'm sure there are people who love doing a certain sport, and it doesn't mean they want to be top level atheletes.

    I honestly would never want to live off of Smash, because it sounds stressful, having to constantly do well to make your pay. The people who do that are actually very few, and it's not like they don't depend on part time streaming to make up for it.
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    StoicPhantom
    I think it is because people nowadays associate investment into anything that doesn't strictly make money as a waste of time. Sort of trying to soothe an insecurity that nothing they do has any meaning or value in it and trying to use money as a way of giving what they do a purpose. "Video games are a waste of time and you should go do something productive instead." says your parents. "But mom, you can make money from playing games now!" says you.

    But has anyone ever stopped to consider whether or not making money from playing games ever brought real value to anyone? That people were essentially doing the same thing ten years ago that they are now demanding money to do? That you are now effectively commodifying a social activity that everyone does for free? That this move towards monetization is ultimately arbitrary and thus has no inherent meaning or purpose to it?


    I too, wouldn't want to make money off of my hobbies. If only because I would never truly be able to enjoy them without obsessively worrying about whether the market would want me to do this even when I want to do that and I would essentially have to gatekeep people to enjoy with based on whether I could monetize our activities or not. I like doing them, so it stands to reason that I would not only invest a significant amount of time in them, but I also would want to be good at them (if applicable).
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    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    yeh this stupid notion that money is the only way to define "success". I got news for you, money won't always make you happy, unless it happens to be that it's part of your dream plan.
    Oz o:
    Mikey D. says players who plateau around midlevel think they need some sort of important outbreak or "moment" to suddenly break through it, but it's more that they need to tweak on certain areas of their game seperately than one whole area at a massive scale.
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    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    I relate to that, because I honestly did think it was that way for a long time.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    That's probably accurate. There isn't that much difference between player tiers after a certain point and it usually comes down to small things. One common thing I've noticed is that top level players are just a bit more patient than those who languish in top 32/64.
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    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    Mid level players can take a game off a top player, even if it's once in a set. It's not like this thing where top players automatically 3 stock free, unless they are really used to your playstyle. Their difference is in the small things, as you say.
    Oz o:
    Analyzing matches changes so damn much, and I can't believe how long it took me to actually do it. Not only was I always skeptical of what it can do, but it's also that I overcomplicate it and pause like every frame because I had no idea how to see the big picture. I always overthink it, instead of catching on to patterns.
    Oz o:
    Finished playing with my friend just now. I definitely feel pretty consistent, which shouldn't be as strange by now. Even with Kazuya, I still drop stuff, but I feel like I'm definitely improving that (just not at the rate I'd like to).
    Oz o:
    Only thing I'm disappointed about, is not getting last place. I need something to rub on everyone else's face once I make it big. : D
    Oz o:
    I'm Mr. Doctor Man
    Who questions his hands
    Lost his mind
    But is clinically fine
    He found a way to cope
    Needle in his throat
    Falling down,
    But his world is spinning round
    Oz o:
    Is this true.
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    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    I personally don't find anything wrong with fairs or any sort of entertainment and cultural things relating to farm activities. It's nice people still do those things, because it's closer to old values and still reminds you of natural things. My mother was born in a rural area, so that kind of stuff still sounds natural to me.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    Nah, it is funny and there are cringe aspects as with any culture. You find it funny on a surface level, as you should, but I have the cultural context to know that people like that sincerely believe it and look down on those people.

    Basically, there's a huge cultural rift between the coasts and the rest of the US. There's a rather complex history as to why, but they do not like each other. The coasts, namely New York and California, have most of the wealth in the country (as they'll gloat about) while the rest have rather little overall outside of some specific wealthy areas. The Midwest was largely manufacturing and farmland until the globalization pushed by the Reagan and the Clinton administrations (coastal elites) destroyed the Midwestern economy by sending manufacturing jobs to China and other places.

    There's quite a lot of resentment and bitterness towards the coastal elites as a result. Not only did these elites get wealthy off this destruction, but they really rub it in with things like giving the Midwest the derogatory nickname "flyover states" or the section of the country only good for flying over when you travel from one coast to the other. It further makes that region feel abandoned now that they are no longer relevant in the economy. The coasts basically regard everyone else as uncultured and vulgar peasants that are a constant source of embarrassment for them and the country. You wouldn't know this because practically all media from the US is centered around the coasts and their interpretation of the country.

    I think light ribbing and poking fun at other cultures is healthy and keeps them humble. And "cow pie discus", or cow chips as we would say, is cringe and gross even for a lot of us who live here. My problem is more that I can tell Coney is one of those coastal types that look down on our region. He tries to cover it by saying he just doesn't understand, but you can tell by looking at his body language and tone. That other guy was looking and acting pretty uncomfortable when this conversation came up, and he was quick to point out he was from Omaha (big city) instead of the more rural western Nebraska, to try and save face. Because shaming these regions is so common in US media, a lot of people feel embarrassed admitting they came from those regions when they are trying to fit in. When he didn't push back is when Coney really started going in completely oblivious to the other guy's discomfort.

    So the issue goes deeper than just ribbing on goofier aspects of Midwestern culture and is more about cultural fault lines in the US. The coasts think everyone as else as unwashed luddites while the rest of the US think of them as pompous, arrogant elitists that look down on people from their ivory towers. I don't really care if people poke fun at the more ridiculous aspects of Midwestern culture, but it is always done in a way as if the coasts are somehow paradises and everyone else is worse off for not living there. I'd personally rather not pay exorbitant amounts of money to live in filthy, overcrowded cities where consumption and consumerism is the only attraction. The fact that he had to bring up Times Square and their Best Buys not closing at 8:00 was because there really isn't anything of real cultural value in those areas: they're one giant parking lot.

    I'm all for poking fun at ourselves and each other, but I get annoyed when people pretend their **** doesn't stink.
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    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    Argentina has some sort of aspect like that, where everything is overcentralized in Buenos Aires, the capital. It's no surprise we only really have one region and locals in Smash, because the other provinces are generally less wealthy and technology isn't as big (not saying they don't have stuff like celphones or videogame consoles), it's just not as common as here.

    The ones from the other provinces sometimes refer to as "porteños", which basically translate to "people that live in the port".
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