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Universal frame 3 Jump out of shield and less laggier aerials on a game where grabs are weaker, it kinda seems like that's a given.

It's not, especially if you're closer to the sides of a stage. Getting hit out of it is a lot more likely to end up off stage without a jump. You still need mixups. I notice a lot of players past a certain level start jumping a lot more, but it's not like you can't catch them for it.

Hurtbox shifting plus whack ass dodge mechanics combined with low startup on moves makes for quite a lot of whiff potential just for simply moving quickly. Quite often just simply throwing out a quick move gives you a burst of speed, puts out a hitbox, and shifts your hurtbox.

Consider Mario Bair is frame 6, shifts his hurtbox significantly, is -3 at worst on shield, and has six frames of landing lag if not autocanceled. His already small size makes it difficult to hit him and adding on this move means asking yourself why wouldn't you mash this move if you are in a tight spot. There's virtually no downsides because it won't be worse than the situation you're already in.

Same with neutral airdodges. The absolute worst thing that can happen with a properly timed neutral airdodge is ten frames of landing lag. It is actually incredibly hard to do a significant punish on something with that tight of timing. You might get knocked back in the air at worst, but ten frames of landing lag + low startup on moves means you can potentially punish a whiffed punish and go straight to advantage. I've seen lots of high level ZSS players airdodge through attacks and then immediately punish with Up-Smash as an example. 10 frames of landing lag + 10 frames of startup = 20 overall frames. Mario's Up-Smash has a total of 39 frames as an example. So if Mario tried to catch ZSS's landing with Up-Smash, 39 - 20 = 19 frames of advantage for ZSS neutral airdodge + Up-Smash. Spotdodges are in an even better position with spotdodge canceling.

Rolls are the same way as well in that it is unlikely you're getting a significant punish on a roll in most cases.

So the thing is that even if they won't necessarily put you in a good position, these panic moves aren't going to put you in a worse position either. Contrast that with Smash 4 where panic options put you in a worse position because everything was laggier. You can pretty much assume that anytime you would use a panic option in Ultimate you were probably already ****ed in the first place. These options add an extra layer of difficulty for your opponent that might give you the advantage.


Ultimate is an entirely different game than the previous titles, so you have to change your way of thinking too, unfortunately. A lot of the common wisdom in those games don't really apply to Ultimate. Hurtbox shifting, spotdodge canceling, neutral airdodges, and much faster startup really turned a lot of things on their head. And kind of ruined the game for me.

I disagree with the airdodge thing, because it isn't entirely like that. You're probably referring to things like fastfall airdodge, or just before you reach the ground. In those cases, it's definitely more specific and harder to punish. But someting like being juggled, airdodging can be a lot worse, since doin it high in the air puts you in disadvantage considerably longer until you hit the ground. And then when you mention landing with attacks, something like Mario is like the better extreme, since everything he has is very safe and lagless.

And I do agree with the last part, sadly. I never fully adjusted to Ultimate, in that sense. So you can see why I still think twice before doing a panic option.