COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[Jiangjunizzy]

do you guys think it would be possible to make teching faster using the ledgelag code?

 

[kupo15]

A straight out reduction in air resistance would also boost horizontal KOs. I had ideas on how to make jump momentum work but I'm not certain how to do it any more - my previous ideas somewhat relied on the game 'remembering' your previous horizontal velocity, but that isn't how it works.

I'm sure I'll think of something soon enough, though.

EDIT: You don't keep your momentum Paprika - if you do a forward jump you always travel at the same speed. We are talking about a code that would make your initial speed dependant on how fast you were travelling before you jumped.

If I am envisioning this correctly, I don't think just halving air resistance is the way to go because imagine if mk and sonic move twice as fast in the air no matter how fast they go on the ground. There is a difference between always having 2x air speed and running to get that air speed with the air resistance there to gradually slow them down. Anyone have any insight? Magus?

I really don't see why we would need such a code.
give me an example of a situation whit the current way this behaves that such a code would fix or improve.

With better air speed, you can follow up for combos better which means less hitstun value. IMO this will make the game and combo game feel better and tighter. Also being falcon and running to chase after someone and not being able to follow up at all because you losing all of your momentum doesn't make sense nor does it feel natural. Maybe I can find an example in my vids

I should have been able to get off another knee but no momentum transfer did not allow this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRChvPf3vt0#t=1m36s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRChvPf3vt0#t=2m13s

Maybe the game calculates air speed for all jumps as you not moving even though you are. If that's the case, then all we need is a code to change that value and we need to make sure that the code does not affect how the game calculates the 2nd-nth jump. But I'm not entirely sure how to approach it.

 

[Frogles]

Sooooo which hitstun% stops Fox from being able to infinite dair?

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

so we got fastfall speed, would it be possible to edit fall speed only?

 

[Deleted member]

If I am envisioning this correctly, I don't think just halving air resistance is the way to go because imagine if mk and sonic move twice as fast in the air no matter how fast they go on the ground. There is a difference between always having 2x air speed and running to get that air speed with the air resistance there to gradually slow them down. Anyone have any insight? Magus?


With better air speed, you can follow up for combos better which means less hitstun value. IMO this will make the game and combo game feel better and tighter. Also being falcon and running to chase after someone and not being able to follow up at all because you losing all of your momentum doesn't make sense nor does it feel natural. Maybe I can find an example in my vids

I should have been able to get off another knee but no momentum transfer did not allow this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRChvPf3vt0#t=1m36s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRChvPf3vt0#t=2m13s

Maybe the game calculates air speed for the first jump as you not moving even though you are. If thats the case, then all we need is a code to change that value. We need to make sure that the code does not affect how the game calculates the 2nd-nth jump. But I'm not entirely sure how to approach it.

I asked for flaws the current physics have.
really, using this code will reduce your aerial options and might even kill RAR.

 

[kupo15]

I asked for flaws the current physics have.
really, using this code will reduce your aerial options and might even kill RAR.

how will this reduce your air options and kill RAR? If my prediction is correct, then all we are doing is changing the way the game calculates your air speed (I think the value is always set to 0 as if you are not running) and make sure it only affects the first jump. If anything were to kill RAR, it would have been the dash dancing which it did not.

I wouldn't know how to even prove the current physics for jumping being flawed, I just know it is :\

 

[Deleted member]

ehm you don't get it, a RAR is preformed as follows;
run, turn around, jump, hold stick to the running direction while jumping.

when airspeed is calculated with running speed you would jump either straight up or even in the opposite direction of your run, since you are no longer running in the direction you were, and you could only affect this with DI.

 

[Almas]

How do you mean Jiang? IMO Downwards Gravity does a good enough job of that - the kill% change isn't really noticable.

I think the horizontal momentum code would boost gameplay, but I think you're misjudging how easy to code it is. Currently the game doesn't even consider what you're doing before you jump, and it won't remember it either.

EDIT: Paprika, I'm not certain that problem would come up - you still have momentum going the direction you were previously facing, it's just significantly reduced (and drops to 0 soon enough). The problem is that you need to measure horizontal velocity at any given point, and add it to 'current' horizontal velocity if a character performs a jump from the ground. Which feels like it would be taxing on codelength - it would ultimately depend if a loop would fit neatly into the code.

 

[KayJay]

This short hop code really nerfes tiny characters (metaknight included) 'cause now almost every short hop instant aerial attack does connect against tiny standing characters. IMO that's a good thing, the bad thing is, that you cannot autocancel / arrowcancel some moves anymore, or approaches like DKs short hop double back air doesn't work anymore.
But still i like short hop on value 0.85.

 

[Finns7]

Meta got good with the hitstun, but others got more of a buff, imo. If you miss techs with ANY character you have a chance at losing a stock and with meta being able to get KO easily I think it balances a liltte better.

Meta is all about offense and since VB defense game was so strong it kinda made him 2 good compared to everyone else who has some form of balance. With the shield nerf codes I think he could balance out a little more.

 

[Deleted member]

what hitstun are you playing on?

 

[kupo15]

ehm you don't get it, a RAR is preformed as follows;
run, turn around, jump, hold stick to the running direction while jumping.

when airspeed is calculated with running speed you would jump either straight up or even in the opposite direction of your run, since you are no longer running in the direction you were, and you could only affect this with DI.

But how would this affect NOT being able to at least turn around during this part? If you were to try and RAR in melee, you wouldn't turn around. I don't think this code would disable you physically being able to be turned around to begin with. If anything, I think that this code would not affect RAR's air speed at all.

I think the horizontal momentum code would boost gameplay, but I think you're misjudging how easy to code it is. Currently the game doesn't even consider what you're doing before you jump, and it won't remember it either.

EDIT: Paprika, I'm not certain that problem would come up - you still have momentum going the direction you were previously facing, it's just significantly reduced (and drops to 0 soon enough). The problem is that you need to measure horizontal velocity at any given point, and add it to 'current' horizontal velocity if a character performs a jump from the ground. Which feels like it would be taxing on codelength - it would ultimately depend if a loop would fit neatly into the code.

Ok so then I guess you would have to override what the game normally does? The game has a way to track how fast you run, so wouldn't the code be made so that the code itself remembers the speed variable then plugs that into the air speed formula? So for example (hypothetically) if the equation were:

air speed=x (lol not sure so might as well keep it simple)
x is the programmed air speed no matter what
Wouldn't the code mod this to be:

air speed=xy
x is the programmed air speed no matter what
y is the ground speed the code records

Would this work?

 

[Deleted member]

who are you gonna ask to make this code anyways?

 

[MBlaze]

You forgot to put the new and perfected codes into your txt files Kupo. :O

 

[Team Giza]

I know this most likely isn't possible but might they be able to make the shorthop height code exclude Falcon, Ganondorf, Pit, Wolf, and Pikachu? >.>

 

[Almas]

I plan to work on it paprika - I figure I know the most about jumps at this current point in time and it's one that appeals to me too. We'll see if and what it breaks if and when I manage to complete it.

EDIT: Possible, Giza, but I believe it would add lines and lines to the code. Actually, maybe one line per character, it somewhat depends on a few things.

 

[kupo15]

who are you gonna ask to make this code anyways?

Almas said he wanted to focus on this code after he did the jump one.

You forgot to put the new and perfected codes into your txt files Kupo. :O

I know, I need sketch to edit it.

http://rapidshare.com/files/181158701/Brawl_.txt.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/181158702/RSBE01.gct.html

 

[MBlaze]

Also about the Lagless ledges, you have that up there as a new code to test but it's been out for a while and it's been in your txt file for a while.

 

[kupo15]

Also about the Lagless ledges, you have that up there as a new code to test but it's been out for a while and it's been in your txt file for a while.

its an updated version. Doesn't it look like a lot less lines? >_<

 

[MBlaze]

its an updated version. Doesn't it look like a lot less lines? >_<

Oh, does that highlighted part need to be changed?

Also, since the dash dance code is out, do we still have a need for crouch cancel?

 

[Deleted member]

just make it a high value like 44000000

 

[kupo15]

just make it a high value like 44000000

How quickly can you let go of the ledge? You still have to wait for the ledge snap sound before acting right? Because the first version of the code I could ledge hop before even grabbing the ledge lol

 

[Deleted member]

lol, never watched ledgehopping, but you really insta grab the ledge with values like that, look unnatuarral though

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

lol, never watched ledgehopping, but you really insta grab the ledge with values like that, look unnatuarral though

yes, they do look rather awkward.

 

[MookieRah]

OK, I'm not sure if this has been discussed but when I try to use these latest codes either gecko OS doesn't recognize that the codes are there or it locks up the wii after loading the codes when it tries to boot up Brawl. I have no idea what is causing this, and I even downloaded Kupo's file and it doesn't recognize the code.

Does anyone know what is going on?

 

[Deleted member]

code limit maybe

 

[zxeon]

OK, I'm not sure if this has been discussed but when I try to use these latest codes either gecko OS doesn't recognize that the codes are there or it locks up the wii after loading the codes when it tries to boot up Brawl. I have no idea what is causing this, and I even downloaded Kupo's file and it doesn't recognize the code.

Does anyone know what is going on?

What firmware are you on?

 

[NinjaLink]

Can someone make a debug mode code so we can see hitboxes, super armor, invincibilty frames etc?

 

[Finns7]

Kupo are you 100 sure all the buffer values cause glitchy stuff except 0. It felt uncomfortable at first until I played with it for about 20 mins or so I actually had no problem with 0 until I played with ganon (dair) and Ike (jab cancel). Its not just them either some characters need more than a 0 buffer window.

 

[Team Giza]

EDIT: Possible, Giza, but I believe it would add lines and lines to the code. Actually, maybe one line per character, it somewhat depends on a few things.

Alright, I hope that can be done. Hopefully we would be able to work it out like the level codes. That would be quite amazing.

 

[Dan_X]

Yeah, I'm not seeing how we'll have the space for character specific nerfs/buffs over other codes.
The only character specific code that NEEDS to be in standard, if you ask me, are the PT codes by PW. Goodness are those needed...


Also, I agree that SOME buffer is better than 0 buffer. It just makes the game feel so much more fluid. Doesn't matter how much time you invest practicing with 0 buffer, two things remain true:

1) It does not feel like Melee did.
2) It does not feel right on Brawl.

It just doesn't fit and takes away from, really, the FUN of the game. And, as has been stated before, it cripples the accessibility and adoption rate of Brawl+ because the game will feel like crap to newcomers from Brawl. And remember, we want widespread acceptance in order to get recognition, a scene, and tourneys. 0 buffer just really isn't helping out this project.

Reduce the buffer window, but keep some buffer. I think I'm seeing the consensus of 3-4 frames in the responses?

I agree, I'd like a smaller window, but zero takes away more than it adds.

 

[MookieRah]

What firmware are you on?

I'm not sure but it's not the latest version. All of my codes up till now have worked without any problems too, so I don't think this is the problem, but *shrug* I don't really know.

code limit maybe

Well then the codes Kupo posted are over the limit. Also, I counted it up before on earlier files and I had 256 lines, so it should have worked. That was the time where it froze, lately since I've tried Kupo's stuff it doesn't even pick up that there are codes to load. I even created a fresh file inputting all the codes and still no luck. I'm about to re-download the old SD package and make another fresh code list and see how it works.

 

[Almas]

Can someone recommend a value for the lagless ledges code that makes it functional but not have a ridiculously fast animation?

EDIT: And does 4 buffering cause glitches? I'm hearing stuff either way so I figured I'd start with 4. I haven't actually played Brawl in a couple of weeks!

 

[kupo15]

Can someone make a debug mode code so we can see hitboxes, super armor, invincibilty frames etc?

From talking with pw, we don't have enough code space to do that and not only that, it would take a lot of time because you would have to go move by move to make the stuff. Its not simply uncover the debug mode because there is none. You would have to make it from scratch

Kupo are you 100 sure all the buffer values cause glitchy stuff except 0. It felt uncomfortable at first until I played with it for about 20 mins or so I actually had no problem with 0 until I played with ganon (dair) and Ike (jab cancel). Its not just them either some characters need more than a 0 buffer window.

We are not positive about all the values but the ones tested so far are glitchy. I was playing with 2 and by jump button did a nair one time.

I'm not sure but it's not the latest version. All of my codes up till now have worked without any problems too, so I don't think this is the problem, but *shrug* I don't really know.


Well then the codes Kupo posted are over the limit. Also, I counted it up before on earlier files and I had 256 lines, so it should have worked. That was the time where it froze, lately since I've tried Kupo's stuff it doesn't even pick up that there are codes to load. I even created a fresh file inputting all the codes and still no luck. I'm about to re-download the old SD package and make another fresh code list and see how it works.

They should be just under 200 lines. Let me reupload the txt file without the camera code

Did you right click on the txt file and open it through the code manager? If you just downloaded the gct file, did you replace the old gct file in the codes folder?

Also, I recently edited the buffer code to have 0 frames (but not on as a default) and I'm pretty sure I edited correctly Ill double check

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

mookie, sometimes the thing just won't work, and you have to just keep trying. i had this issue the other day. it just seems finicky at times.

 

[Deleted member]

kupo, the hitboxes etc are not about space limits since they would be used outside brawl+ too.

 

[kupo15]

kupo, the hitboxes etc are not about space limits since they would be used outside brawl+ too.

I know but I have a hard time believing that 256 lines is possible to debug the entire game

Phantom wings
3.Color coating hitboxes would require an excessive amount of code - first of all you would have to be able to readily access all hitboxes that get put into play, then you would have to calculate their shape and sizes, then find what type they are, and finally find a way to render them onscreen - not to mention being able to do this without the game lagging to an extreme degree... The only reason they were able to do this in melee was because there was system set underneath all the code set aside specifically for viewing the hitboxes.

http://rapidshare.com/files/181166886/Brawl_.txt.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/181166887/RSBE01.gct.html

Mookie, how is this?

Should be 219 lines

 

[MBlaze]

yes, they do look rather awkward.

Really... just got done trying it.. I'm just going back to 4000000 now unless someone can give me a better one.

EDIT: Nvm, you just posted it Kupo. lol

 

[kupo15]

Really... just got done trying it.. I'm just going back to 4000000 now unless someone can give me a better one.

But Kupo, hopefully you make that new txt file soon, I'ma need that.

check the post above yours. I decided to include the dash canceling code as a default even though I don't use it

 

[Eaode]

wait so there's no debug Menu hidden in Brawl like there is in Melee?