COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[Deleted member]

I suppose hitstun will be lowered a bit with the new code? because I think 11.75% is way too much now.

 

[SketchHurricane]

I suppose hitstun will be lowered a bit with the new code? because I think 11.75% is way too much now.

It should be lowered with any amount of gravity anyway.

That 1 line code does affect weak AND strong hits i noticed.
The 11 line code does absolutely the same for me.

Actually, this seems to be the case with me as well. Imagine if we find a decent value for the 1 liner O.o what a homerun that would be, but ideally we would want to weak both values I suppose...

 

[maplesyrupandjam]

so for that shield stun code, that last line at the bottom... do you add that to the bottom of the code or do you make it a separate code?

 

[kupo15]

separate. Let me make the OP clearer

 

[Almas]

It should work either way. Make sure you give it it's own title if you separate it though.

 

[kupo15]

It should work either way. Make sure you give it it's own title if you separate it though.

I did. Would you like me to put your codes under beta or do you want me to wait until the next release?

 

[Almas]

Which codes? The ones I posted earlier tonight are more just to show that progress is being made - they're unusable in a game. My plan of action after some thinking is to try and see if I can find when those values get read, and try and plug in a multiplier then. I'm working in unfamiliar terrain though, since I'm not experienced with all this.

 

[kupo15]

Which codes? The ones I posted earlier tonight are more just to show that progress is being made - they're unusable in a game. My plan of action after some thinking is to try and see if I can find when those values get read, and try and plug in a multiplier then. I'm working in unfamiliar terrain though, since I'm not experienced with all this.

Ok then I won't post them.


Buffer Mod is out!

 

[cAm8ooo]

Sweet. But eww, 23 lines. I dont really care about it THAT much. Maybe i can squeeze it in tho

 

[Revven]

Buffer Mod is out!

Good ****!

I'm happeh.

 

[kupo15]

Sweet. But eww, 23 lines. I dont really care about it THAT much. Maybe i can squeeze it in tho

23 lines is fine. If need be we can take out lagless ledges, but Im sure we can make that code much shorter

 

[zxeon]

Finally no more tears! I don't have to be afraid of dying when I slip off the edge with Ike.

 

[kupo15]

Finally no more tears! I don't have to be afraid of dying when I slip off the edge with Ike.

LOL srsly or anything like that.


Im setting mine to 3 atm to see how that is

 

[leafgreen386]

Ah, the code rush is beginning. This should be fun to try out. I'll be testing 5 frames of buffering when I get the chance. I honestly think either 4 or 5 frames will end up being perfect.

 

[SketchHurricane]

Buffer Mod is out!

Awesome! Been waiting for that one, but I am a bit bummed by the length. The default is "A", but that doesn't tell us much as far as what to change it to...any ideas?

 

[leafgreen386]

Awesome! Been waiting for that one, but I am a bit bummed by the length. The default is "A", but that doesn't tell us much as far as what to change it to...any ideas?

Well, the default is 10 frames, so change it to whatever fraction of that you think is appropriate. If you want half of the current buffer, then try 5. If you want less, try 3 or 4.

 

[kupo15]

what leaf said.

Hex goes from 0-9 A-F

So 0 is no buffer, 5 is 5 frames....A is 10 frames

Also, we can combine a lot of codes together and save on lines



I currently have 213 lines filled up WITHOUT combining codes and we can combine a lot.

 

[shanus]

is the buffer mod just to allow us to buffer any move on the last X frames of the previous move as opposed to the current buffers which are only on some?

 

[cAm8ooo]

I currently have 213 lines filled up WITHOUT combining codes and we can combine a lot.

I can't wait till we combine codes and have a set code list for brawl+. I think that's when things are really gonna go off.

 

[thesage]

What's the current buffer frame rate (without any codes). I hate it when I try to do a ff fair and I do an f-smash instead lol.

 

[kupo15]

is the buffer mod just to allow us to buffer any move on the last X frames of the previous move as opposed to the current buffers which are only on some?

no. The current buffer system allows you to input the next action 10 frames before it. This is imprecise because you could accidentally buffer something you don't want to and die. This mod makes the buffer window smaller so accidents don't happen.

 

[Almas]

No, all moves are buffered by brawl. This reduces the window during which buffering is possible.

Currently, if you input a move, but can't do it at that time, the game will wait for up to 1/6th of a second, checking each time to see if you can do it. For example, say I'm holding a shield next to the edge, then, while holding shield, input C-stick forwards (FSmash). Nothing will happen (I think). However, if someone then knocks me off the edge within 1/6th of a second, I'll be put into the 'air' animation. The game will then see that now I CAN perform my C-stick forwards (FAir), and so it'll do that.

This can cause death in some cases. Reducing the buffer window also serves to slightly increase the tech skill intensity of the game - because timing the transition between moves becomes harder to do. The technique of SHADing - Airdodging just before one hits the floor, then putting in a move during the airdodge so that it'll come out the moment you land - becomes much harder to do with this code, for example.

EDIT: The default is A - 10 frames, 1/6th of a second.

 

[shanus]

No, all moves are buffered by brawl. This reduces the window during which buffering is possible.

Currently, if you input a move, but can't do it at that time, the game will wait for up to 1/6th of a second, checking each time to see if you can do it. For example, say I'm holding a shield next to the edge, then, while holding shield, input C-stick forwards (FSmash). Nothing will happen (I think). However, if someone then knocks me off the edge within 1/6th of a second, I'll be put into the 'air' animation. The game will then see that now I CAN perform my C-stick forwards (FAir), and so it'll do that.

This can cause death in some cases. Reducing the buffer window also serves to slightly increase the tech skill intensity of the game - because timing the transition between moves becomes harder to do. The technique of SHADing - Airdodging just before one hits the floor, then putting in a move during the airdodge so that it'll come out the moment you land - becomes much harder to do with this code, for example.

Ah, interesting. Did not know that, learn something new every day.

 

[GPDP]

What's the current buffer frame rate (without any codes). I hate it when I try to do a ff fair and I do an f-smash instead lol.

10 frames.

Also, I'm currently using 243 lines, with the following codeset:

No Tripping
Hitstun
Strong Shield Stun
Weak Shield Stun
ALC
Lagless Ledges
No ASL
Dash Cancel
Stale Moves Modifier
Buffer Modifier
Downwards Gravity
Hold L for Freeze Level

That leaves 13 lines. If I must, I'll sacrifice the level freeze and Dash Cancel codes. That is, if an important code so big that even after combining codes there's not enough room for it comes out.

 

[petre]

while holding shield, input C-stick forwards (FSmash). Nothing will happen (I think).

you roll.

still this is pretty awesome. melee had no buffer at all, right? i wonder if people would hate it if it was just set to 0...

 

[Shell]

Buffer code, cool. I think I'll try 5 frames. Send PW our thanks, please!

I played around 3/4 power decay, and noticed a subtle difference. I'm not sure if I'm good with 3/4 or I want less decay. How's 1/2 to you guys? I heard somebody also wanted 1/4?

Also, I cannot wait for dash dancing to be complete.

 

[Problem2]

you roll.

still this is pretty awesome. melee had no buffer at all, right? i wonder if people would hate it if it was just set to 0...

I thought Melee had buffering which was causes all the suicides with Falco's/Fox's forward-B.

 

[Shell]

Nah. Pretty sure that was just failed waveshining.

 

[leafgreen386]

I just had to take off (part of) a code to fit the new buffer code in.

I'm currently using the following (256 lines):

No tripping
Hitstun +.1175
ALC
Longer replays
PT codes
Ledge codes
1/2 stale
Buffer mod (5 frames)
Shield stun codes
Specific stage freeze

I had to take off two stages on my specific stage freeze code to fit it.

For some reason Almas's "hold L for level freeze" code doesn't work for me, regardless of if I'm using the P1 controller or not. And yes, I tried taking off the specific stage freeze code to test this.

 

[zxeon]

Buffer code, cool. I think I'll try 5 frames. Send PW our thanks, please!

I played around 3/4 power decay, and noticed a subtle difference. I'm not sure if I'm good with 3/4 or I want less decay. How's 1/2 to you guys? I heard somebody also wanted 1/4?

Also, I cannot wait for dash dancing to be complete.

No decay is just fine and it's thrifty on lines just dont let Fox spam his laser on you because they'll hit you for 2% each.

Does anyone know a good buffer value. What size was Smash64 and Melee's and what size of a buffer do most notable fighting games have?

 

[leafgreen386]

No decay is just fine and it's thrifty on lines just dont let Fox spam his laser on you because they'll hit you for 2% each.

Does anyone know a good buffer value. What size was Smash64 and Melee's and what size of a buffer do most notable fighting games have?

The last question is the important one. I don't know about smash 64, but I know melee didn't have a buffer system at all.

 

[zxeon]

I know most fighting games have a buffer of some kind. I wonder how big they are?

 

[kupo15]

Wise words of Magus on buffering

Though people often refer to it as such, the c-stick roll/dodge/jump thing isn't actually buffering. It's just if at any time the c-stick is in a direction while the shield is up you do the associated action (up=jump, side=roll, down=grounddodge). The result is if you hold shield + a direction on the c-stick during lag you'll shield on the 1st frame you come out of lag, and then since the shield is up and a direction is being held on the c-stick it triggers that action on the following frame.

The only things in Melee I can think of that truely buffer are jab sequences (varies), getup attacks (25 frames which is the entirety of the missed tech animation and is pretty annoying), and double jumps out of hitstun (20 frames) except for the DamageFlyRoll animation which you sometimes get with very powerful knockback and DamageFlyTop which you usually get with vertical throws and hits. L-cancel input also probably buffers during hitlag to start the window after it ends, but you can't really tell whether it's that or the game adds the hitlag to the window since it results in the same thing either way.

Other things that aren't really buffered but allow you to input it early that I know of are the early window of input to fastfall as you said (3), and a 2 frame window to begin a dash.

What makes those different from true buffering is while you can perform the input early, you still need to keep holding the input until the time it takes action for it to work. If the earliest FF happens on frame 20 and you tap down on frame 18 then let go by frame 20 you won't fastfall, but if you tap down on frame 18 and it's still being held down on frame 20 then you will fastfall. Same thing with the dash. If you tap forward on the last lag frame of something but release it on the next you won't dash, but it you press it early and hold it it will work.

Jab sequences buffer into the next one in Melee. Oh, and also Fox/Falco's lasers, and maybe some other special moves too. I don't think any different attacks buffer together though. Buffering isn't necessarily a bad thing, however, and exists in most fighting games to some degree. It is a bad thing though when it's a huge window like it is in Brawl and causes a lot of interference and sloppy controls. A 3-4 frame buffer should be good to keep in though, and better than removing it imo.

Melee didn't have any buffering of attacks to attacks nor did 64

Zxeon: Try 3 frame buffer window

 

[thesage]

Why do people want a stale moves modifier? It adds to the strategy of what moves you want to use and may increase the amount of combos done.

The pt codes would be nice if we don't add any mods, but I don't think it's important enough to sacrifice all the codes GPDP listed (except maybe lagless edges). Stamina shouldn't even be that much or a problem as matches will go by quicker.

 

[kupo15]

Why do people want a stale moves modifier? It adds to the strategy of what moves you want to use and may increase the amount of combos done.

The pt codes would be nice if we don't add any mods, but I don't think it's important enough to sacrifice all the codes GPDP listed (except maybe lagless edges). Stamina shouldn't even be that much or a problem as matches will go by quicker.

Brawls current stale move default doesnt really add strategy...It punishes you for attacking...yea...smart

Also with hit stun, the current stale moves will make utilt and uair spam combos which I know everyone loves since they take oh so much skill to do

 

[zxeon]

What made wavedashing so easy in Brawl was the huge buffer window. With the window reduced it is much harder to Wavedash.

 

[MookieRah]

@thesage
I think KishPrime said it best in the SBR when the stale moves modifier code came out:

"Stale moves is a mechanic that lazy programmers use to make sure that you switch your moves, instead of reasonably balancing them all out so that you would want to use other moves. It's simply not a good mechanic."

 

[zxeon]

Would any amount of buffering get in the way of dash dancing? I mean when you are dash dancing you are hitting the control stick really fast I think that a buffer would confuse your commands.

 

[leafgreen386]

It makes dashdancing at present harder, but once we get a DD code, it should be fine.

edit: Wait, you're asking if buffering would make DDing harder? No, it shouldn't. You have to time it regardless, and you'd be dashing the frame you hit the command, anyway.

 

[zxeon]

It makes dashdancing at present harder, but once we get a DD code, it should be fine.

It should be fine but from what I can understand Melee had no buffer at all. If the game is buffering your dash commands wouldn't it get confused?