COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[Starscream]

Try this code made by Giza.

4A000000 8077F780
D2000000 00000004
2C030000 41820010
2C1C003B 40820008
3B800040 60000000
939E0038 00000000

I think it's an edited action modifier. Basically it puts both the grabber and grabbed into a grab release animation upon release. No problems whatsoever.

I think a lot of the disagreement came from people still wanting grab release setups. Now that we can combo out of so many other things (like throws lol) I personally think we shouldn't care about grab release setups anymore.

 

[GPDP]

I don't understand the purpose of some of these changes
What's the purpose of making short hops shorter? Wouldn't that take away things like Falco's SHDL, and some character's ability to preform 2 aerials in a single short hop?

The shorter short hops code was suggested because some believe shffls are not as effective as they could be because characters short hop too high to fast fall quickly. However, I believe that the problem is not in the jump height, but in the overall floatiness of jumps. Increasing downward gravity helps, but you still take too long to reach the apex of your jump unless you increase upward gravity, but doing that nerfs recoveries. So I suggested that we increase jump launch power and somehow limit the jump height gained from that, so that jumps and recoveries are the same height, but are performed faster. How this will be done, I don't know.

Also, could you explain exactly what each of these codes does?

Look in the Brawl+ FAQ thread. There's a description for all the codes there.

 

[kupo15]

I really don't think that SHFFL times is a problem. It works well for the characters and can have negative side effects by not allowing characters enough time to do stuff. I know Ganons Dair won't be auto canceled anymore in a SH

 

[kupo15]

Updated a lagless ledges code that adds invincibility and 3 lines of code.

I think it works for now but in the future, we should really look to make a new code from scratch that speeds up the grab animation instead of overwriting a lot of inputs.

I also added who is doing what under the workings section in the OP

 

[Deleted member]

hey noticed the "one airdodge with brawl mechanics" that is actually the last part of the MAD code:

C27816DC 00000004
8963FFFC 2C0B0001
40820008 48000010
39600000 9963FFFC
98030000 00000000
E0000000 80008000

but don't pin me on this, try out yourself

 

[Alopex]

Try this code made by Giza.

I think it's an edited action modifier. Basically it puts both the grabber and grabbed into a grab release animation upon release. No problems whatsoever.

I think a lot of the disagreement came from people still wanting grab release setups. Now that we can combo out of so many other things (like throws lol) I personally think we shouldn't care about grab release setups anymore.

I recall that code being posted in the thread.

The issue there as that each character would get put into their own respective grab release animations which, in the end, would actually solve nothing.

In fact, it would only cause more problems. For example, Marth can chain release grab Ness because Marth's break animation lasts 30 frames while Ness's release animation lasts 40 frames. Marth's own release animation lasts 30 frames, and Ness's own break animation lasts 30 frames.
If both are put into a release animation, then Marth's animation still ends at 30 and Ness's ends at 40. Ness can still get screwed. Not only that, but Ness would get screwed out of his OWN grab, because if Ness releases Marth, then Ness goes into his 40 frame release animation with that code instead of his 30 frame break animation.

The problem with that code was that it relied on the animations to fix the problem when, in the end, it's the animations themselves that are the actual problem, because they do not all universally last the same amount of frames.

That's what my previous post covered and is why the only real solution to this problem is a code that applies a universal 30 frame value to all 3 animations: Air Release, Ground Release, Grab Break.

 

[GPDP]

The new lagless edges code works. I still have a short period of invincibility when I drop off the ledge or ledge jump.

That part of the MAD code doesn't work, though. I still have infinite airdodges.

 

[zxeon]

I wonder if increasing the acceleration on the jump force and fast falling would yield faster jumps?

 

[kupo15]

the point of the lagless ledge code is to have the invincibility so the code is perfect atm but could use to be smaller later on.

 

[GPDP]

I wonder if increasing the acceleration on the jump force and fast falling would yield faster jumps?

I don't see how that would be possible without increasing the jump launch power, but that results in higher jumps as well.

There needs to be a way to limit the height gained while still increasing the acceleration.

 

[kupo15]

Added a shield coloring code. Could be nice for team battles if there is lines lol

 

[GPDP]

Well that's random. Wasn't PW supposed to be working on DD and buffering? lol

 

[kupo15]

yup, but someone non brawl+ related requested the shield color code so I snatched it myself along with the updated lagless ledges code

 

[MBlaze]

What's the point of the colored shield codes?

 

[MuBa]

Just what I wanted! To be able to make my shield look so pretty since it's going to get nerfed like hell!

Awesome job kupo!

 

[kupo15]

What's the point of the colored shield codes?

Just what I wanted! To be able to make my shield look so pretty since it's going to get nerfed like hell!

Awesome job kupo!

Someone else requested it so I figured..why not. It might be good for team battles

You never know. We could have 8 lines of code left after we solidify the absolutely necessary codes and non of the preference codes fit so we can use these ones

 

[Revven]

What's the point of the colored shield codes?

PW got a request for it on GSC so, he did them. They're not specifically for this project.

 

[Starscream]

I recall that code being posted in the thread.

The issue there as that each character would get put into their own respective grab release animations which, in the end, would actually solve nothing.

In fact, it would only cause more problems. For example, Marth can chain release grab Ness because Marth's break animation lasts 30 frames while Ness's release animation lasts 40 frames. Marth's own release animation lasts 30 frames, and Ness's own break animation lasts 30 frames.
If both are put into a release animation, then Marth's animation still ends at 30 and Ness's ends at 40. Ness can still get screwed. Not only that, but Ness would get screwed out of his OWN grab, because if Ness releases Marth, then Ness goes into his 40 frame release animation with that code instead of his 30 frame break animation.

The problem with that code was that it relied on the animations to fix the problem when, in the end, it's the animations themselves that are the actual problem, because they do not all universally last the same amount of frames.

That's what my previous post covered and is why the only real solution to this problem is a code that applies a universal 30 frame value to all 3 animations: Air Release, Ground Release, Grab Break.

I'm trying to grab release infinite a lvl 9 Ness right now with Marth, can't do it. Your own grab break animation puts too much distance between you and Ness, he can recover before you can regrab. He's even too far to Fsmash.

Trying to infinite a lvl 9 Wario with Bowser too. I can regrab sometimes but I can't infinite. He can get away after a ground release and can jump away in an air release.

Doesn't sound like a fix on paper but in practice it works. I don't know if it's perfect, I'm not the kind of guy that extensively tests these things. I leave that stuff to you guys, but from my experiences, I can't grab release infinite anyone with this code.

 

[SketchHurricane]

Ideas for codes:
1) Change all ground grabber release lag to 30 frames (Bowser), ground break release to 25/30 frames, and air break release to 40 frames.
2) If you grab the edge, fall off, and grab the edge again without being hit or landing, you don't regain invincibility.

Good ideas?

I noticed a couple people asking for option 2. Ironically, using the old version of Lagless Edges pretty much accomplished that already!

Someone else requested it so I figured..why not. It might be good for team battles

Can you make them different colors other than red/blue/green/yellow? That would be cool, but definitely unnecessary.

What I have in mind:

No Tripping
Infinite Replay
ALC
Hitstun - 11.75% (Perfect amount anyway)
Dash Canceling
Modified Decay System (1/2)
Lagless Edges
No Auto Sweetspotting
Pokemon Trainer Codes


Any suggestions? I'm also not just showing this for the Brawl players but the Melee players as well who were interested.

If it's a Melee crowd, those codes are fine. If there are more Brawl players, definitely go for .48-.5 hitstun, and consider taking out NASL.

I've messed with .4 hitstun before, but not in a match. It would be interesting to see if it changes things any.

 

[kupo15]

We have a new version of lagless ledges btw with invincibility. Give it a try..I'm sure its not broken.

I requested PW to make a variation on the shield color code so that the shield is the color of the team you chose

 

[Team Giza]

The problem with that code was that it relied on the animations to fix the problem when, in the end, it's the animations themselves that are the actual problem, because they do not all universally last the same amount of frames.

I'll admit the code doesn't make all grab releases perfectly balanced. It does give some characters follow ups and advantages to doing grab releases. However as far as I can tell there are no longer grab release infinites.

 

[WeirdoZ Inc.]

Since it's not in your code list, I thought I'd post this great alternative to the P.Trainer codes;

Hold SHIELD for Independent Pokemon +no wreck My Music [spunit262]
06407BD0 0000000E
04030F0D 1E1B1F1B
201B211B 221B0000
046847C4 60000000
C268482C 00000003
3800003F 981400B8
2C1D0003 40A20008
3BA00004 00000000
C2684964 00000007
881400B8 2C00003F
40A20028 2C03001D
40A20008 3860001E
2C03001F 40A20008
38600020 2C030021
40A20008 38600022
987400B8 00000000

Since it's less lines than the ones you have, it's at least a great alternative when your running out of lines for the entire Brawl+ pack. Created by spunit a while ago.

 

[kupo15]

added. thanks

 

[Alopex]

Hmm... I'll admit it does actually work better than I remember it.

If a code can't be made to make 30 frames the universal value for all 3 animations, then I'll gladly take that code over no code.

The infinite releases were the main problem, after all.

I say we add that code as a standard until we find out what the status is on any further developments.


EDIT:

Since it's less lines than the ones you have, it's at least a great alternative when your running out of lines for the entire Brawl+ pack. Created by spunit a while ago.

The problem with that code is that it doesn't remove Stamina or Forced Swap if you want to use non-independent Pokemon. And, as has been discussed many times before, there is actually no point in having Stamina or Forced Swap. The PT has so many limitations when it comes to transforming that those two huge detriments take the character way overboard on the crappy side. There's no reason to not give the PT the same viability as Zelda/Sheik, and that can only be acheived through PW's codes.

Less lines is good, it's just unfortunate that the code doesn't really solve the root of the problem like PW's codes do.

 

[kupo15]

EDIT:

The problem with that code is that it doesn't remove Stamina or Forced Swap if you want to use non-independent Pokemon. And, as has been discussed many times before, there is actually no point in having Stamina or Forced Swap. The PT has so many limitations when it comes to transforming that those two huge detriments take the character way overboard on the crappy side. There's no reason to not give the PT the same viability as Zelda/Sheik, and that can only be acheived through PW's codes.

Less lines is good, it's just unfortunate that the code doesn't really solve the root of the problem like PW's codes do.

and...removed

 

[WeirdoZ Inc.]

Yea, that is unfortunate, but removing the auto-swap is a problem by itself. Some people rely on the auto-swap, since there's a good chance most people rely solely on that to switch. Same with the stamina.

It'd be interesting to find out if it's even remotely possible to mix up the switch order. For example; Hold shield and press down-b to swap to previous pokemon. Sure this should be the last thing on the todo list, but I'm just curious to know if it's possible.

 

[leafgreen386]

Well... I mentioned this a while ago... but maybe we could get a button activator on the no switch code so that if you don't want it, you can hold shield going into the match. That way if someone wants to play PT like they did before, they could.

 

[Alopex]

Yea, that is unfortunate, but removing the auto-swap is a problem by itself. Some people rely on the auto-swap, since there's a good chance most people rely solely on that to switch. Same with the stamina.

I don't think anyone relies on getting killed in order to switch.

Most players would try to switch when they've knocked out their opponent instead. There's plenty of time there and it means you kept a stock.

Brawl PT, with Stamina, just means you won't be able to kill your opponent before they kill you since your Pokemon will be fatigued. Stale Moves + Stamina means you'll also do so little knockback that you won't even be able to have safe transforming time after a good Fsmash. That means you'll need to die if you want to switch. What a horrible mechanic.

With no Stamina, your Pokemon don't get fatigued, so they remain perfectly capable of killing the whole time. They'll at least retain knockback power and can switch after a good Fsmash.

Without Stamina, the auto-swap is no longer the safest way to switch. So there's no need for the auto-swap. Use Squirtle the whole time if you want. She's pretty godly.

 

[WeirdoZ Inc.]

Leafgreen: Yea, that's always an option.

I've been trying to get people to discuss the best way of going about fixing P.Trainer, but I've gone mostly ignored by the P.Trainer community. It's quite unfortunate.

 

[Osi]

I love the no stamina loss code. I tried it out finally, and now I'm wishing I had earlier. I am enjoying squirtle a lot now. He has some great juggles that link well with hitstun now.


So now that my code list is getting full again even without MAD I thought I'd check and see where all the other brawl+ people's code lists are at. I'm a bit worried with the codes still coming in, and my code list is close to 256 hehe.

Here is my code set: 236 Lines total

Ledge cancel
No auto sweetspot
No trip
Fall speed - 1.20
Hitstun - 10%
Specific frozen levels - PS2, pirate, wario, port town, castle siege
No tripping
No replay limit
No pokemon stamina loss
Dash crouch cancel

I could easily remove the dash cancel and stamina if needed, and likely the stage freeze code too. This would add 67 lines to work with. There are still some codes in the process that are pretty important. Dash cancel will work better with dash dancing once a code comes though, so I'd love to see it stay at that point.

At the moment it looks like these are high on my list:
Shield stun - big code, it is totally needed in my final set
Dash dance - with MAD gone the ground game feels limited to me, so can't wait for this
Momentum - I think this code will prove to be a nice change to the game. Adding the natural ground speed attributes of characters to their SH will make a more diverse air entry game. The only negatives I could see would be MK doesn't need a boost, and some slower characters may become a bit worse when their naturally slow speed is magnified by this.

There are also a few other codes I'd love to see if they can be worked into the list. Short hop, perfect shield, and knockback codes come to mind. These are further down on the list of codes I'd like to see though.

 

[abcool]

Has anyone else seen the computer do like a half-step with thier dash? It looks kind of like a moonwalk from Melee.

i have seen it many times...how do they do that?

 

[leafgreen386]

Not sure what you're talking about, but if it's what I think it is, then it's just pivoting. Start an initial dash and then set the control stick to neutral during the dashdance frames.

 

[zxeon]

Has anyone else seen the computer do like a half-step with thier dash? It looks kind of like a moonwalk from Melee.

i have seen it many times...how do they do that?

Can anyone explain what this is?

 

[Tornadith]

There are a lot of changes in Brawl+ that I am happy are being made and incorporated/taken out of Brawl for Competitive Brawl. But some...not so much.

Good Changes
No tripping
No auto-sweetspot
No replay limit
No pokemon stamina loss
Specific Frozen Stages

Bad Changes
Fall speed increase
Hitstun increase

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

what makes hitstun a bad change? combos are a staple of fighting games and being punished for landing attacks is lame. you should be at the mercy of your opponent if they get through your defense.

plus, having hitstun makes every character in the game viable for tourney use.

 

[zxeon]

With vanilla Brawl loose restrictions on hitstun you go to attack your opponent and if you hit them they suffer damage but can immediately attack you back which means you probably shouldn't have gotten close to attack them in the first place. What that is encouraging you to do is stay far away and use only projectiles or moves that that have no cooldown time that way you can always either hit them with another move or run away before your opponent hits you back.

 

[storm92]

Hitstun is needed for a competitive game.
It's pretty much agreed upon.
As zxeon said, when the opponent can attack you back right after you hit them and punish you for, I don't know, doing damage...there's a slight problem.
And gravity increases are not bad, they don't affect recoveries at all and simply speed up the slow gameplay more than ALC and other codes.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

I can totally understand why people who played Brawl first don't like hitstun though. They don't understand why combos are appealing and to be put to the mercy of one must be pretty awful. BUT I DON'T CARE CUZ COMBOS ARE AWESOME!

 

[Magus420]

No way. Hitstun and blockstun are so overrated. This game looks amazing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aTF-7d4gTI#t=6m51s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aTF-7d4gTI#t=3m35s

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

No way. Hitstun and blockstun are so overrated. This game looks amazing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aTF-7d4gTI#t=6m51s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aTF-7d4gTI#t=3m35s

my god get it away from me