COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[Revven]

Buffering kills me....literally!

Especially when you roll and accidentally push the opposite way and it turns you around so you're facing where you didn't want to. I can't count how many times that's happened to me, it's why I pride myself in matches to NEVER roll and only do it when necessary.

 

[zxeon]

Buffering kills me....literally!

Lol, me too.

 

[GPDP]

Alright, just did a bit of testing with the metal box and bunny hood.

Both items definitely increase your jump launch power. The bunny hood makes your jumps faster (in addition to making them much higher), and the metal box makes them both slightly faster and higher. Only problem is, of course, that the metal box nerfs some Up-B's such as Sonic's, which is expected considering the extra upwards gravity.

I'm beginning to wonder if looking at launch power is the wrong approach. Maybe the metal box increases a jump height variable, instead of a launch power variable. Otherwise, why would jumps be higher, but Up-B's get nerfed?

 

[zxeon]

Alright, just did a bit of testing with the metal box and bunny hood.

Both items definitely increase your jump launch power. The bunny hood makes your jumps faster (in addition to making them much higher), and the metal box makes them both slightly faster and higher. Only problem is, of course, that the metal box nerfs some Up-B's such as Sonic's, which is expected considering the extra upwards gravity.

I'm beginning to wonder if looking at launch power is the wrong approach. Maybe the metal box increases a jump height variable, instead of a launch power variable. Otherwise, why would jumps be higher, but Up-B's get nerfed?

You might be onto something there. I wish leafgreen or someone with knowledge of gravity where here to shed some light on the subject.

 

[kupo15]

Especially when you roll and accidentally push the opposite way and it turns you around so you're facing where you didn't want to. I can't count how many times that's happened to me, it's why I pride myself in matches to NEVER roll and only do it when necessary.

Lol, me too.

Yea its bad. My friend as ganon did some air attack over the ledge, accidentally slipped or something with down b and the game buffered a wiz kick to his death!!! I can't wait to see how fast the game plays with reduced hitlag and no fake hitlag. C'mon, do we really need almost a second to react to falcons knee!?

 

[Shadic]

Why would jumps be higher, but Up-B's get nerfed?

I'm going to have to say that your hypothesis is likely correct. Regular jumps and Up-B recoveries have to have different variables. Take Giant Mode - Your character's jump height seems to scale with his size, but his Up-B stays the same, which makes it look like it's getting worse between the fact that your perception has changed, and the character itself is heavier.

 

[GPDP]

So... there's a different height variable for Up-B's and jumps, but gravity affects both?

Looks like this is gonna be a little more complicated than I thought.

How, then, could we keep the normal height for both Up-B's and jumps, and still increase their launch power, or at least that of just jumps, so that they are faster, and thus eliminate Brawl's floatiness once and for all?

 

[Shadic]

Unless you make a code for all the characters individually to increase the power of their Up-B (Link especially, please) I don't think it's possible.

If a code like this comes out, I may just take a code that makes Link recover better. His lack of one is truly ridiculous.

 

[GPDP]

Well, if I am right, and in addition to gravity codes, there are both jump launch power and jump height variables independent of their Up-B counterparts, then perhaps it's merely a matter of increasing launch power, decreasing jump/short jump height, and increasing downward gravity, while hopefully leaving Up-B's alone.

Yeah, looks like we might have to find the jump height variable after all, zxeon.

Wait, does the bunny hood affect Up-B's? I'll have to check right now, once my bro stops playing Call of Duty 4 lol.

Edit: Yes, yes it does. Negatively. It looks like both the bunny hood and the metal box increase overall gravity, while simultaneously increasing either jump height or launch power.

In the case of the bunny hood, gravity is increased a bit, and either jump height is increased a lot, or launch power is increased a lot and then some to make up for the extra upwards gravity. In the case of the metal box, gravity is increased a lot, and either jump height is increased a bit, or launch power is increased moderately, again to make up for the heavy gravity and then more to add extra jump height.

It remains to be seen, then, what exactly is causing jumps to be higher. It sure as hell isn't decreased gravity.

Edit 2: I don't know how we're gonna find the culprit here without isolating the variable at work in both the metal box and the bunny hood. The only two things I can think of that can account for higher jump speed would be either a higher jump variable or a higher jump launch power variable, while the two things that can possibly account for "faster" jumps are a higher jump launch power variable or, of course, higher gravity.

As it is, I cannot discern which combination is at work here. There's a chance that there's no such launch power variable, and that what is happening is the higher gravity working in conjunction with higher overall jumps (the ratio, of course, being extremely different between the bunny hood and the metal box). For sure, there is a gravity increase present, as is evident from the nerfed Up-B's. But if it's the other way around, and what is at work is a launch power variable instead of a jump height variable, then how much of the increased jump speed is attributable to increased gravity, and how much to increased launch power? There would have to be enough launch power to overpower the increased gravity so as to make jumps higher than normal, that much is sure.

I suppose a more careful study of the effects of the metal box and the bunny hood could reveal more answers, perhaps by figuring out a ratio of jump height to jump speed. I'm not sure how that would be done, however.

 

[Heavyarms2050]

is it possible to modify the jump to such extreme that you can jump upward out of stage to kill yourself?

 

[zxeon]

is it possible to modify the jump to such extreme that you can jump upward out of stage to kill yourself?

I imagine so.

 

[abcool]

hey can u guys direct me to a forum where ppl with brawl+ wants to play online..i wanna test that theory to see how often it desyncs and to see if it is good enough to take online...

 

[GPDP]

Ok, this is a bit weird. I thought the gravity codes are supposed to overwrite any changes in gravity in-game, but apparently, this is not quite true. I added the upwards gravity line to the gravity code, and tested it in Spear Pillar. Indeed, when... that thing (Palkia, I think) is supposed to lower the gravity, nothing happened. Gravity stayed the same. Then I tried the metal box. My gravity setting was overwritten, and gravity was increased. Also, I tried the Light mode in Special Brawl, and that also overwrote my gravity code.

I was hoping that, by keeping the gravity the same, I would be able to isolate the other variable present in increasing jump height on the metal box, but it appears that method does not work. Looks like I'm gonna have to leave it to a hacker to uncover this mystery.

 

[Shell]

We obtained the current gravity address by watching Spear Pillar and taking its natural gravity modification address. I don't think there's any way to get the gravity modifier to work in that stage since it's trying to modify the same value at the same time that we are.

Just a guess.

 

[GPDP]

Um, the gravity modifier worked just fine in Spear Pillar, just like I expected it would. I also hear that it works to nullify the lower gravity in the windy stage in Pokemon Stadium 2 and in the falling portion of Pirate Ship. This is all like it should be.

What didn't happen according to expectations, however, was it working when using the metal box and when playing on Special Brawl. On both those cases, my code was overwritten, which did not happen on Spear Pillar when Palkia lowered the gravity.

 

[Shell]

When you use a metal box in unmodded brawl in pokemon stadium's wind stage, is the effect cumulative, or does one take priority? If it's cumulative, I suspect they're two separate addresses in the memory being modified.

 

[GPDP]

Ah, good question. I'll go test immediately.

Edit: Indeed, it looks as if it's cumulative. That means the metal box's gravity effect is different to the one in use in Spear Pillar, PK2, and others.

 

[Almas]

Nononono.

The codes discovered at Spear Pillar were 'global' gravities.

Metal Box and other effects impact 'player' gravity values, which are stored elsewhere. Resultant gravity is likely a multiple of the two effects. For the curious: each player has a set of variables (5C bytes, which is about 16-17 lines) stored in memory. These variables tend to deal with things which won't change THAT often - for example, Gravity, Damage Ratio, and Defense Ratio. I plan to do some experimenting, but right now I'm working on another code in what little free time I've awarded myself.

 

[Heavyarms2050]

so with

MAD
ALC
no auto sweetspot
lagless edge
vertical gravity modifier

how many lines do we have left?

 

[zxeon]

That puts us at around 171 lines and leaves us with about 85 lines.

 

[Osi]

so with

MAD
ALC
no auto sweetspot
lagless edge
vertical gravity modifier

how many lines do we have left?

Hitstun
No Tripping?

 

[zxeon]

Hitstun
No Tripping?

Lol, I didn't notice those weren't on the list but they are included in the sum.

 

[GPDP]

Oh, thanks for the input, Almas. I did think of the possibility that there could be individual modifiers separate from the global ones.

Wait, does this mean that if I use the old gravity code, the one that affects individual players, I could possibly nullify the effects of the metal box?

Edit: Guess not. I suppose I'll really leave this to the hackers now lol.

 

[Almas]

Erm, yes, it should do. It's definitely worth a try. Metal also has atleast one other effect though - it changes your defense ratio. You'd want to find the code which does that, too.

I'm knackered for the day, spent the last two hours debugging what should have been a really simple code. Atleast it was a learning experience.

Hold L for Level Freeze [6 Lines]
215E25D8 00000000
8000000F 3F800000
284DE4B0 000001C0
8000000F 00000000
E2000002 80008000
8420000F 9016A904

(Hacker note: Uses Gecko Register F)

Just Hold L at the moment when you press A to select a stage in order to have the stage frozen. This works with the Random setting - although I note that this means problems would arise if you wanted to have maps which required being frozen and maps you preferred unfrozen in your neutral choices. It should work with the other level freeze code, but I would recommend making sure that this one appears before the other one in the code list. I'm far, far too lazy to check the full implications at 3AM. We can just assume that Brawl+ should use a Strikeoff system for map choice if you wanted to use this code ;p.

 

[zxeon]

Erm, yes, it should do. It's definitely worth a try. Metal also has atleast one other effect though - it changes your defense ratio. You'd want to find the code which does that, too.

I'm knackered for the day, spent the last two hours debugging what should have been a really simple code. Atleast it was a learning experience.

Hold L for Level Freeze [6 Lines]
215E25D8 00000000
8000000F 3F800000
284DE4B0 000001C0
8000000F 00000000
E2000002 80008000
8420000F 9016A904

(Hacker note: Uses Gecko Register F)

Just Hold L at the moment when you press A to select a stage in order to have the stage frozen. This works with the Random setting.

Holy crap that's one nice code. Can't wait to give it a try. Imagine the applications lol!

 

[GPDP]

Wow, great code. That should save a couple of lines.

Anyway, I tried using the code for Player 1 gravity, and set it at 1. The metal box still overrides it. Should I decrease the gravity, then, to the point that Sonic's Up-B gets the same distance as before?

 

[Almas]

I'm quite surprised that Metal Box would override it, but I kinda get why. Still, it should be possible to deduce a jump height code. With that on, only downwards gravity would be changed, which I believe doesn't affect Up+Bs. That, and we can make the argument that most Up+Bs deserve to be nerfed anyway (sucks to be link).

 

[zxeon]

Wow, great code. That should save a couple of lines.

Anyway, I tried using the code for Player 1 gravity, and set it at 1. The metal box still overrides it. Should I decrease the gravity, then, to the point that Sonic's Up-B gets the same distance as before?

Anything is worth a try.

 

[Corpsecreate]

It would be really nice if we could get a PAL version for each of these codes. Or perhaps someone could tell me how to convert a NTSC code to a PAL code (if theres a simple way).

 

[zxeon]

It would be really nice if we could get a PAL version for each of these codes. Or perhaps someone could tell me how to convert a NTSC code to a PAL code (if theres a simple way).

You could ask Paprika killer. He's ported codes from NTSC-U to PAL before.

Hmm...Paprika killer now I'm hungry.

 

[GPDP]

Alright, here's what I'm going to do: I'm going to more or less determine how much gravity the metal box adds on (I'll compare it to heavy brawl first, and if that's not accurate enough, I'll add or drop gravity with a code until I more or less have it). Then, once I figure that out, I'll deduce an appropriate modifier to drop the gravity enough to make Sonic's Up-B get the distance it should. Once I get that, I should be able to determine if it is a jump height or jump launch power variable at work.

Edit: Alright, Heavy Brawl definitely has more gravity. Gonna try a lower gravity modifier, like 1.25 (Heavy Brawl uses 1.5, right?).

Edit 2: 1.25 is still too high. I'll try 1.2 now.

Edit 3: I think 1.2 is it. That means the modifier that would cancel out metal box gravity should be .83333~. I'll try this out now.

Edit 4: The Sonic Up-B test was a success! At .833333~ gravity, metal Sonic gets just about the same distance as normal Sonic at normal gravity.

I noticed a few things, however. For one, the metal box does not use a simple gravity modifier. In reality, it uses separate modifiers for both upwards and downwards gravity. Though Sonic now gets the same upward distance, he still falls faster than usual.

Even so, this does not deter me from making a proclamation: the variable at work is indeed a jump launch power modifier. Sonic still rises faster and jumps higher than normal Sonic at normal gravity. The higher downward gravity should not have an effect on the rising speed or the jump height, as we all know.

 

[Almas]

Short answer: Wait for Paprikakiller to do it all.
Long answer: Wait for Paprikakiller or me to do it all. There are some tricks which make the technique faster (for example, there is something known as the Standard Offset which has a tendency to link codes together), but it's pretty impractical to do if you don't have the gear. That said, Paprika has already ported a lot of the more important codes, but you have to go diving to find them. That, and a friend has told me they don't seem to work for him. Ionno.

 

[GPDP]

Let me reiterate this on a new post so everyone can see it.

I just found out that what makes metal characters rise faster (in addition to higher upwards gravity) and jump higher than normal is most likely a jump launch power variable. Why else would metal Sonic's Up-B cover the same distance it always does at .8333333~ gravity, but at a faster rate?

I have not ruled out the possibility of a jump height variable working in conjunction with the launch power variable, however. If there is one, there's a possibility that we can harness both so as to increase launch power and decrease jump height accordingly, along with an increase in downwards gravity. If we can do this, we may be able to drastically decrease Brawl's floaty jumps and aerials on the way up as well as on the way down, without messing with recoveries. We may just be able to have our cake, and eat it too.

 

[zxeon]

Let me reiterate this on a new post so everyone can see it.

I just found out that what makes metal characters rise faster (in addition to higher upwards gravity) and jump higher than normal is most likely a jump launch speed variable.

Ooh

 

[leafgreen386]

Too bad I was at a smashfest. I could've told you that and saved you the trouble ages ago. lol

I can almost guarantee you that there is no such thing as a jump height variable in this game. It's all based on forces. Certain specials are pretty much the exception (mostly upBs), although I'm pretty sure they're still just manipulating forces. For example, ganon's upB actually goes up a set height regardless of the gravity setting, and then falls at a set rate also regardless of the gravity setting (no, seriously, try it in zero gravity). If you fast fall when you're in this state, your new falling speed will be dependent on the default gravity setting (so in zero gravity you would just abruptly stop).

Anything you see that causes you to fall faster is typically a change in the player specific gravity. Anything that causes you to rise is the result of a one-time force applied on the character. Knockback doesn't follow either of these, though, and is its own separate thing, so don't go mixing that up now.

 

[GPDP]

Too bad I was at a smashfest. I could've told you that and saved you the trouble ages ago. lol

No problem. Testing all of this out gave me invaluable experience in looking for variables in this game, and I don't regret it at all.

I can almost guarantee you that there is no such thing as a jump height variable in this game. It's all based on forces. UpBs are pretty much the exception (and not all of them, either).

That's too bad. So, would you say there's no way to limit the distance gained from increased jump launch power, other than increasing gravity, which... would nerf some Up-B's such as Sonic's?

Somehow, I feel as though somewhere out there, Sakurai is laughing at me.

 

[kupo15]

Erm, yes, it should do. It's definitely worth a try. Metal also has atleast one other effect though - it changes your defense ratio. You'd want to find the code which does that, too.

I'm knackered for the day, spent the last two hours debugging what should have been a really simple code. Atleast it was a learning experience.

Hold L for Level Freeze [6 Lines]
215E25D8 00000000
8000000F 3F800000
284DE4B0 000001C0
8000000F 00000000
E2000002 80008000
8420000F 9016A904

(Hacker note: Uses Gecko Register F)

Just Hold L at the moment when you press A to select a stage in order to have the stage frozen. This works with the Random setting - although I note that this means problems would arise if you wanted to have maps which required being frozen and maps you preferred unfrozen in your neutral choices. It should work with the other level freeze code, but I would recommend making sure that this one appears before the other one in the code list. I'm far, far too lazy to check the full implications at 3AM. We can just assume that Brawl+ should use a Strikeoff system for map choice if you wanted to use this code ;p.

Thats an awesome code and I shall add it.

I have a good idea for a code. How about a code that when you select random, instead of selecting a random stage and loading it, it puts the cursor over the stage without loading it so you can decide if you want that stage frozen or if you want to pick another stage

 

[zxeon]

Too bad I was at a smashfest. I could've told you that and saved you the trouble ages ago. lol

I can almost guarantee you that there is no such thing as a jump height variable in this game. It's all based on forces. Certain specials are pretty much the exception (mostly upBs).

Anything you see that causes you to fall faster is typically a change in the player specific gravity. Anything that causes you to rise is the result of a one-time force applied on the character. Knockback doesn't follow either of these, though, and is its own separate thing, so don't go mixing that up now.

How did you figure all this stuff out?

 

[Almas]

Finding the exact value of the multiple is very useful. Metal is 1.2, you say? If you could spare the time to find Bunny (and preferably Bunny+Metal, too), I would be very greatful.

 

[leafgreen386]

How did you figure all this stuff out?

Change the gravity to zero. A lot of things become pretty obvious. Just be sure you're using a character with a fast fall dair (or a special that causes you to fall) if you don't want to restart the match a bunch of times.