COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[GPDP]

Finding the exact value of the multiple is very useful. Metal is 1.2, you say? If you could spare the time to find Bunny (and preferably Bunny+Metal, too), I would be very greatful.

Not quite. Like I mentioned before, Metal uses a stronger downward gravity setting than upward. Sonic rose to the needed height, but fell faster than he should've, which means there was a stronger downward gravity multiple acting upon him than upwards. Merely setting the gravity lower did not take care of that, or the rising speed for that matter, which led me to conclude that a jump launch power variable was also at work.

 

[zxeon]

Erm, yes, it should do. It's definitely worth a try. Metal also has atleast one other effect though - it changes your defense ratio. You'd want to find the code which does that, too.

I'm knackered for the day, spent the last two hours debugging what should have been a really simple code. Atleast it was a learning experience.

Hold L for Level Freeze [6 Lines]
215E25D8 00000000
8000000F 3F800000
284DE4B0 000001C0
8000000F 00000000
E2000002 80008000
8420000F 9016A904

I had some trouble with this code. Sometimes when I try to freeze stages stages they don't freeze until I try a second time and there are some stages I couldn't get to freeze at all. Those stages where Brinstar (I've heard that the other stage speed modifier can't freeze this one either) and Hanenbow.

 

[zxeon]

Change the gravity to zero. A lot of things become pretty obvious. Just be sure you're using a character with a fast fall dair (or a special that causes you to fall) if you don't want to restart the match a bunch of times.

Lol, I have to give that a try.

Oops double post.

 

[GPDP]

Well, I tried to see if I could isolate the downwards gravity variable for Metal (upwards is definitely 1.2), but I'm afraid it's gonna be tough without first accounting for launch power.

I figured that Falco can fire his laser 5 times from the moment Sonic launches upwards to the moment Sonic falls back down to the spring at normal gravity, so I tried to see if I could get a number that would let me fire 5 shots with metal Sonic, but it's complicated. Downwards gravity is definitely bigger, but the increased launch power makes Sonic reach the top of his jump faster, and it screws up the measurement process. So even if I lower downward gravity enough to let Falco fire his 5 shots, it wouldn't be an accurate number, because I would have to artificially make it smaller than it should be to account for the increased launch power of the spring.

So, at the moment, I cannot give you an accurate number for downward gravity for Metal. I'll see if I can get upward gravity for Bunny Hood, though.

 

[leafgreen386]

Try building a large stage builder stage and just running off the side. If you have at least two controllers, you should be able to make it out of four large "towers," and then use the start trick to make sure both the metal sonic and the gravity affected sonic run off the side of the stage at the same time.

 

[GPDP]

That's a great idea. I might just do that now.

Edit: Wait, but the separate gravity codes are global. How then would I have an unaffected metal Sonic and a gravity-affected Sonic? If I enable different values for upward and downward gravity, it would apply to all players, not just one.

 

[Dan_X]

So, does the new level speed code work correctly?

 

[leafgreen386]

What do you mean "work correctly?" It works the same as the others except it uses a button activator.

 

[zxeon]

I was messing around with zero gravity and I noticed that knockback doesn't act like jump force. When you are hit by a move you fly away and then stop as opposed to when you jump at zero gravity you fly off infinitely. What's the deal with that?

 

[Dan_X]

What do you mean "work correctly?" It works the same as the others except it uses a button activator.

That's exactly my point. Does it work the way it was intended? Just hold L while selecting the map and presto... I just wanted to know for sure that it works because I didn't feel like wasting my time to test a code and find out that it doesn't work.

sometimes codes don't work the way they were intended you know..

 

[TommyDerMeister]

When I have the new level speed code activated, my game won't boot at all. It gets to the part after the screen where it says "codes found, applying list" then it just stays at a black screen. It never loads the screen that tells you to make sure you have your wrist strap on.

I let it sit for a while and nothing happened. I tried with other codes activated, and I tried it with just the code activated by itself and nothing.

Edit: Also, when I deactivate the code and go back to using any of the other codes it boots just fine.

 

[leafgreen386]

I was messing around with zero gravity and I noticed that knockback doesn't act like jump force. When you are hit by a move you fly away and then stop as opposed to when you jump at zero gravity you fly off infinitely. What's the deal with that?

I told you knockback doesn't work the same way other forces do lol

This was actually what I've been working on most recently, which has sorta been put on hold as I don't have access to more data. Currently, I've figured out well... this:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6155872&postcount=569

I haven't been able to delve any deeper due to lack of a camera, though =(

But basically, there are three components that determine your positioning in the game from frame to frame - vertical forces, horizontal forces, and knockback forces, and each of these are calculated separately, adding vectors to determine your new position each frame.

Also, one bit of data in that post is incorrect, and that is that characters do not *instantly* start fast falling. They accelerate very quickly, however.

 

[Dan_X]

When I have the new level speed code activated, my game won't boot at all. It gets to the part after the screen where it says "codes found, applying list" then it just stays at a black screen. It never loads the screen that tells you to make sure you have your wrist strap on.

I let it sit for a while and nothing happened. I tried with other codes activated, and I tried it with just the code activated by itself and nothing.

Edit: Also, when I deactivate the code and go back to using any of the other codes it boots just fine.

That happened to me tonight as well, but that was before I added the new code. It was because I went beyond the 256 line limit-- oops. Gotta cut some codes. Probably the PT ones, I don't have MAD on.

 

[TommyDerMeister]

Thats weird, I didn't go past the 256 limit.

 

[zxeon]

Snakes dair has a bit of upward force applied to it. The developers sure cared a lot about Snake to give him something so convenient. I didn't check his fair but I bet it's the same.

 

[Shadic]

That happened to me tonight as well, but that was before I added the new code. It was because I went beyond the 256 line limit-- oops. Gotta cut some codes. Probably the PT ones, I don't have MAD on.

Yeah, I was having problems getting the game to run with those.

 

[Almas]

Well, I ran my code from within the game, so I can't talk about booting problems while loading up. The 5 minutes that I did test the code it appeared flawless. The problems with brinstar/hanenbow that were reported seem like a problem with level speed codes in general, not this one in particular.

 

[zxeon]

Has anyone else seen the computer do like a half-step with thier dash? It looks kind of like a moonwalk from Melee.

 

[KishPrime]

Can we get an update on the stale moves code situation? We're having extreme difficulties with adjusting it in a favorable way.

At this point, we'd just like a couple codes for moderate reduction and heavy reduction, if possible.

 

[SketchHurricane]

Can we get an update on the stale moves code situation? We're having extreme difficulties with adjusting it in a favorable way.

At this point, we'd just like a couple codes for moderate reduction and heavy reduction, if possible.

Well there is already 1/2 and 3/4 in the OP. You'll have to say specifically what you want for someone to make it.

 

[MBlaze]

Hey, I plan on bringing hacks to my next tourney and people said once again "Just guys who hate Brawl so much and trying to recreate Melee", "Hitstun would make Brawl broken", "Hacks... EWWW", were the responses that I've received. -_- I still plan on bringing these hacks but I wanna ask you guys so far, what do you think I should bring? Like even though Brawl+ isn't finished, what hacks do you think are tourney viable for a standard for Brawl+ so far?

 

[Revven]

Hey, I plan on bringing hacks to my next tourney and people said once again "Just guys who hate Brawl so much and trying to recreate Melee", "Hitstun would make Brawl broken", "Hacks... EWWW", were the responses that I've received. -_- I still plan on bringing these hacks but I wanna ask you guys so far, what do you think I should bring? Like even though Brawl+ isn't finished, what hacks do you think are tourney viable for a standard for Brawl+ so far?

Hitstun, No Tripping, and ALC are a must. BUT! Hitstun has to be low enough so people don't get the impression that "OMG BRAWL+ MAKES so and so BROKEN!" or "HITSTUN BREAKS THE GAME!" People will try it out if they're interested, you want to make the changes minimal though so there isn't a HUGE gripe about it, you want to draw interest in the game. So, those three codes above are a must.

Any others may change the game too much for them. Such as no ASL and lagless ledges for example. But, I'd wait for everyone else's opinions besides mine.

 

[Deleted member]

you might want to use 0% hitstun, sounds wierd but basically turns hitsun into the hitstun it should have been but without increasing it.
no tripping is indeed a must, and ALC mmight be good too

 

[MBlaze]

What I have in mind:

No Tripping
Infinite Replay
ALC
Hitstun - 11.75% (Perfect amount anyway)
Dash Canceling
Modified Decay System (1/2)
Lagless Edges
No Auto Sweetspotting
Pokemon Trainer Codes


Any suggestions? I'm also not just showing this for the Brawl players but the Melee players as well who were interested.

 

[Revven]

What I have in mind:

No Tripping
Infinite Replay
ALC
Hitstun - 11.75% (Perfect amount anyway)
Dash Canceling
Modified Decay System (1/2)
Lagless Edges
No Auto Sweetspotting
Pokemon Trainer Codes


Any suggestions? I'm also not just showing this for the Brawl players but the Melee players as well who were interested.

It's up to you, I would have the hitstun lower if it were me but, that's just me. I'd also tell them that the code set isn't finalized so, what you have on might not be in the final set. Telling them as in, when they're playing it. Just so that they can't talk down to it.

 

[Deleted member]

I would lower the hitstun to 9 or 10%.

 

[MBlaze]

I would lower the hitstun to 9 or 10%.

These Brawl players are Melee lovers including I, so I think that they actually want to combo.

 

[leafgreen386]

Drop the hitstun value down to +.1 imo. It's enough to notice a change, but less brawlers are likely to think it's broken that way. If you're specifically showing it to only melee players, though, use +.1175 hitstun.

edit: well, if they love melee, then screw that. Go for it.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

If you really want to impress them, use some down and up gravity. :D

 

[MK26]

Ideas for codes:
1) Change all ground grabber release lag to 30 frames (Bowser), ground break release to 25/30 frames, and air break release to 40 frames.
2) If you grab the edge, fall off, and grab the edge again without being hit or landing, you don't regain invincibility.

Good ideas?

 

[MBlaze]

I would use the gravity codes but they confuse the hell outta me since I never learned them so yeah..

 

[Finns7]

All you need is hitstun and some form of canceling, and no trip.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

Ideas for codes:
1) Change all ground grabber release lag to 30 frames (Bowser), ground break release to 25/30 frames, and air break release to 40 frames.
2) If you grab the edge, fall off, and grab the edge again without being hit or landing, you don't regain invincibility.

Good ideas?

there are some grab release codes, but people haven't come to a consensus about it yet, but basically the optimal version of it changes the grab release animation to both players experiencing grab breaking. it works rather well, but i don't know why people aren't talking about it anymore.

 

[Deleted member]

you mean the grab release makes both players stand code? think it's because the grab realease isn't as much of an issue with the new mechanics and we simply have no space left for it.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

that's silly. the grab release codes are short, and can be fused with other action modifier codes.

 

[GPDP]

there are some grab release codes, but people haven't come to a consensus about it yet, but basically the optimal version of it changes the grab release animation to both players experiencing grab breaking. it works rather well, but i don't know why people aren't talking about it anymore.

Maybe because kupo hasn't put them on the code agenda.

I might give them a try later on. They don't glitch or anything, right?

 

[Deleted member]

that's silly. the grab release codes are short, and can be fused with other action modifier codes.

only problem is that there are currently no other action modifier codes in the brawl+ list and other codes really deserve a spot in the list more than this one

 

[kupo15]

I would lower the hitstun to 9 or 10%.

All you need is hitstun and some form of canceling, and no trip.

I agree. 10% maximum

Maybe because kupo hasn't put them on the code agenda.

I might give them a try later on. They don't glitch or anything, right?

I'm not going to post a code that is still up in the air

 

[Alopex]

In regards to grab releases, I'm going to repost what I have already said in a previous thread (the one with the grab release fix attempt codes).

Here we go:

This thread is useful in understanding what the problem is with ground releases:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=209846&page=2

So essentially, when it comes to ground releases, only 4 characters really matter: DK, Lucas, Ness, and Bowser.

Every character ends their grab release animation at 30 frames except DK, Lucas, and Ness. DK ends at 20, and the Mother boys at 40.
Seems to me like the ideal solution is to just code it so that every grab release animation lasts 30 frames across the board. That puts everyone on equal footing.

Now, to make sure that stays balanced, we need to look at the grab break animation for the grabber. Seems like everyone's grab break animation ends at 30 frames too.
This explains how Marth can infinite the Mother boys with ground releases. His break animation ends sooner than their release animation.

Bowser is an exception there, as his grab break ends at 20 frames, which explains why he has his pummeling ground release CG game on the entire cast but DK.

So it seems like the ideal fix here would be to also make an across the board value to the grab break animation, making it 30 frames for all charactes.


This will prevent anyone from using a grab release for chain grabs, infinite grabs, and lame guaranteed "grab release combos". It's the ideal situation, as it will still allow the grabber to play mindgames on the grabbee, but prevents the grab release from being used to guarantee an attack landing (Marth...).

Alright, so they've updated this thread (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=209846) to include the frame information for all the air releases.

As it turns out, everyone's air release lasts a whopping 50 frames.

With the break animations for the GRABBERS all presumably ending at 30 frames (still waiting for those numbers), I think we all start to see why there are so many problems with the air releases.

So what's interesting here is that Wario's air release is as long as everyone else's - 50 frames. Wario's problem is that he barely moves away from the grabber. So they can all move much sooner than he can, and don't even have to waste many frames reaching him since he's literally right there.

Yoshi's release chain is also explained, since he's free to move a whopping 20 frames before his opponents and, if they fall fast enough, he can grab them again or hyphen smash them before the opponent's 50 frames are up.

The solution? Also a universal value for the grab release. Specifically, an across the board reduction down to 30 frames, the same as the grab break animation for the grabbers.


What we need in summary is:

1) Universal grab BREAK time - for the grabbers - of 30 frames (removes Bowser's grab release chains/infinites)

2) Universal ground grab release time - for the escapers - of 30 frames (removes Marth's infinites)

3) Universal air grab release time - for the escapers - of 30 frames (removes Yoshi's release chains and prevents Wario from being taken advantage of by letting him move soon enough to react defensively)


I really hope those won't take up too many lines... I also hope they're possible...

 

[SSD]

I don't understand the purpose of some of these changes
What's the purpose of making short hops shorter? Wouldn't that take away things like Falco's SHDL, and some character's ability to preform 2 aerials in a single short hop?




Also, could you explain exactly what each of these codes does?