COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[kupo15]

Yea I want to keep lagless ledges also and I believe that one can be brought down to like 10 lines plus the lines we save from combining...it should be good

I'm still wondering if it would be possible to make a newer shieldstun code to cut down on the shieldpush. I would really like for there to be more shield pressuring and upclose combat. Even though this shieldstun code is a huge improvement over what was in vanilla brawl I am hoping to see a version with less shieldpush in the future.

Does this only happen to weak hits or both?

 

[aho43]

i think it would be a neat code to make shield + B + down -> shield platform drop.

still looking for yoshi jump out of shield code

 

[Deleted member]

ok people, since we are nearing the point of completion of the engine modification codes, (hitstun, shieldstun etc) with only hitlag left, which I personnaly do not consider a major code.
I think we should start focussing on building a code standard. I'll open a topic solely on this later.
after this, we should start looking a character specific codes (yes we need to build in a few buffer lines in the standard).
these character specific codes should NOT be major codes, only adjustments like shield degeneration (can be done char specific), regeneration, power, speed etc.

 

[Archangel]

what the hell does buffer do?

 

[Deleted member]

adjust buffer window, which btw wonders me what happens if you made it infinitly long?

 

[Team Giza]

ok people, since we are nearing the point of completion of the engine modification codes, (hitstun, shieldstun etc) with only hitlag left, which I personnaly do not consider a major code.

I am finding it hard to even consider finding standard values for stuff until we find out what we are going to do about perfect shielding.

 

[Archangel]

are you saying that the code speeds up loading time in the game?

 

[Deleted member]

I am finding it hard to even consider finding standard values for stuff until we find out what we are going to do about perfect shielding.

I was thinking at starting out with codes that are less discussable, like S/L/auto- cancel and MAD.

 

[kupo15]

adjust buffer window, which btw wonders me what happens if you made it infinitly long?

It won't work. A is the biggest it can get which is also the default

I was thinking at starting out with codes that are less discussable, like S/L/auto- cancel and MAD.

Why don't you think hitlag is important? Making hitlag in half will speed up the game, the flow of the game, and put the skill back into DI which will make more interesting combos which in turn means a lesser hitstun value. How hard do you think it would be to make?

No fake hitlag
See Marth's tippered fsmash (shaking back and forth) for testing

Hitlag mod

See Falcon's knee for testing

The reg hitlag mod is more important
I can pretty much guarantee it won't be a waste of your time.

 

[Deleted member]

as I said less discussable goes first, hitlag and l/s cancel are two completly seperate things.
a don't worry, hitlag will be there before friday

and on another note:

hitstun goes LAST

 

[kupo15]

a don't worry, hitlag will be there before friday

Thank you I can't wait!!


Here is my list that is open to comments: (all lines are before combining)

No dispute
No tripping (2 lines)
hitstun (33 lines)

The list

ALC/MLC (32 lines)
Lagless ledges (54 lines) (most likely be much shorter when someone codes it to speed up the animation instead of replacing inputs)
No auto sweet spot ledges (45 lines)
Decay modifier (6 lines)
Fall speed (1 line)
Shield stun (11 lines) (Requested an addition to this by adding weak hits instead of the 1 liner)

Optional (with a strong urge)
buffering (23 lines)


TOTAL 184 (207)

 

[Deleted member]

lol, you forgot hitstun in the list, and melee airdodge is still open for discussion, but I conclude you would vote against it, as would I.

 

[kupo15]

lol, you forgot hitstun in the list, and melee airdodge is still open for discussion, but I conclude you would vote against it, as would I.

lol yea I didnt put hitstun because I thought you said it goes last but I realized you mean its the last thing to go if we need to scratch codes.

And that list isn't including the future codes that I think we need hit hitlag and perfect shielding reductions

 

[MuBa]

Here's my ideal code set for Brawl+:

ALC
Downward Gravity - 1.35
Shorter SH
Dash Dancing
Character Speed Modifier (Non-Buggy)
Better Horizontal Momentum
Hitstun - 9%
No Tripping
Run Cancel Into Anything
Buffer
Shield Stun
Specific Level Freeze


Oh man that would be sooo awesome...

 

[Deleted member]

lol yea I didnt put hitstun because I thought you said it goes last but I realized you mean its the last thing to go if we need to scratch codes.

actually I meant the last code that the values is set for, so it will be based on hitlag shieldstun fallspeed and all those other codes

 

[kupo15]

actually I meant the last code that the values is set for, so it will be based on hitlag shieldstun fallspeed and all those other codes

Oh we are including values right now? I thought it was about line space

 

[Deleted member]

yes it is about line space too, but by the time we arrive at codes with values and we know it's gonna be in we can discuss what values we should use.

btw, how long is your list, hitstun included? (we need about 35 lines left in the end)

 

[kupo15]

I edited that post

Here is my list that is open to comments: (all lines are before combining)

No dispute
No tripping (2 lines)
hitstun (33 lines)
Shield stun (11 lines) (Requested an addition to this by adding weak hits instead of the 1 liner)

The list

ALC/MLC (32 lines)
Lagless ledges (54 lines) (most likely be much shorter when someone codes it to speed up the animation instead of replacing inputs)
No auto sweet spot ledges (45 lines)
Decay modifier (6 lines)
Fall speed (1 line)

Optional (with a strong urge)
buffering (23 lines)


TOTAL 184 (207)

My current code set also includes freezing two stages and the 3 line replay code

Should we make a new thread for this?

 

[Deleted member]

that's actually not a bad total.
if we can agree MAD isn't so good we are fine on linecount (don't count on hitlag be more than 10 lines)

 

[kupo15]

that's actually not a bad total.
if we can agree MAD isn't so good we are fine on linecount

yep and cool

(don't count on hitlag be more than 10 lines)

Sweet. I didn't think it would be. And I would expect the fake hitlag to be even less? Its not "as" important as the other one but is still an unnecessary slow down of the game's flow

 

[cAm8ooo]

I've been wondering this. What is "fake" hitlag?

 

[kupo15]

I've been wondering this. What is "fake" hitlag?

do a tippered marth Fsmash in a slow setting in training mode. It is when they move back and forth and you can't SDI during it.

Zelda's bair and fair have it also

 

[Alphabravo]

I just tried out the new shieldstun code last night. While I have to agree that it is a huge improvement over vanilla brawl's shield, I really don't like all that extra shieldpush/knockback. It really takes away from the shield pressuring game which is what I was looking forward to the most with the addition of the shield code.

I also tried out the new buffer mod code and I love it. Right now, I have mine set to 3 frames of buffer and it feels great. However, I did try out 0 frames of buffering and with it autocanceling Ganon and CF's Dairs was incredibly difficult, seeing as how you can't buffer the aerial as you SH.

I like the idea of reduced hitlag and fake hitlag codes. It would definitely speed up the gameplay and help with the flow of the game.

 

[kupo15]

yep. I pmed spunit to see if he can rework the weak hits part in the code. Its the one liner code that is causing all of the problems

 

[Alopex]

I'm sorry, Paprika Killer, but I think it's pointless and futile to even attempt to create a code standard or even a "code tier" before we have combined and shortened codes.

There's a lot less to be discussed when more can be fit into the 256 limit. The only reason a "code tier" is even being mentioned is because we need to discern which codes will make the cut given the 256 limit. But a lot more codes start making the cut when there is more line space from combining/shortening.

So I think it's pointless to discuss this until we have the final versions of all the codes, because then we know exactly what we're dealing with and how many lines we really need to be worried about.

Until then, it's best to keep focusing on codes that are still missing, like the Perfect Shield window.

 

[Deleted member]

one problem, codes will always be coming since there is always that tiny bit of improvement that can be made, and some codes can regardless of code limit be voted off because there are based on preference. in example MAD.

btw I tried out SBAD (one brawl airdodge) today and it sure wasn't bad (lol pun) and is 5/6 lines.

 

[MookieRah]

I really, really don't see all the fuss over the Power Shield window. I know a lot of people were acting like it's broken or something, but from what I can tell it's just people making it out to be much worse than it really is. I really don't think it's important to change it.

 

[alex3]

@paprika killer: which code is that? is it the one from a couple pages back?

 

[Deleted member]

SBAD? it's the last part of the MAD code, that should start at the C2... line.
I might have posted it before yeah.

 

[kupo15]

I really, really don't see all the fuss over the Power Shield window. I know a lot of people were acting like it's broken or something, but from what I can tell it's just people making it out to be much worse than it really is. I really don't think it's important to change it.

You don't notice how easy it is to powershield physical attacks...even by accident? I don't see why you are ok with accidental powershields. The most powerful shield in the game should not be this easy to do IMO

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

just a suggestion to you all who decide to put up vids.. put a link to the FAQ in the description! it gets more exposure than this thread, and people will come here curious!

 

[kupo15]

SBAD? it's the last part of the MAD code, that should start at the C2... line.
I might have posted it before yeah.

I thought ppl said it didnt work?

 

[Shell]

Don't forget, reducing the buffering window should make accidental Perfect shields less frequent.

I agree that perfect shielding should be one of the last codes to look at. DDing, shorter short hops and horizontal momentum are all more important, IMHO.

 

[kupo15]

Don't forget, reducing the buffering window should make accidental Perfect shields less frequent.

I agree that perfect shielding should be one of the last codes to look at. DDing, shorter short hops and horizontal momentum are all more important, IMHO.

No it does not. Accidental perfect shielding still happens because holding down the shield button during lag to have it auto pop up is not buffering so the code doesn't affect that. The only thing that will reduce the frequency is a shorter window and/or overwrite auto PSing all together as well

Here's my ideal code set for Brawl+:

ALC
Downward Gravity - 1.35
Shorter SH
Dash Dancing
Character Speed Modifier (Non-Buggy)
Better Horizontal Momentum
Hitstun - 9%
No Tripping
Run Cancel Into Anything
Buffer
Shield Stun
Specific Level Freeze


Oh man that would be sooo awesome...

This would be cool...its called hit lag

 

[shanus]

I think power shielding is not ridiculously OP at this point. Personally, I think perfecting qualities of most of the codes we have now + hitlag + dash dancing should be the priority as most of the necessary codes have been pretty well established. This way with buffering optimization, shieldstun, hitlag & dash control, the player should see a lot more control of their character and an overall faster gameplay as such.

 

[kupo15]

I think power shielding is not ridiculously OP at this point. Personally, I think perfecting qualities of most of the codes we have now + hitlag + dash dancing should be the priority as most of the necessary codes have been pretty well established. This way with buffering optimization, shieldstun, hitlag & dash control, the player should see a lot more control of their character and an overall faster gameplay as such.

Its possible but the fact remains that PSing, IMO the MOST powerful defensive option in the game, is too easy AND happens by accident more times than it should.

 

[Deleted member]

it always happens "by accident"

anyway I think it's not OP at all, yes you can master it with effort, but can someone show me a vid of normal brawl where it is really abused?

hitlag can be done in 10 lines indeed think it's another 2 days from done. but I'm not gonna start on fake hitlag I think, other things are more important. horizantal movement for example, and we should really start to decide if we want to buff bad chars or nerf good chars in the end.

 

[kupo15]

it always happens "by accident"

anyway I think it's not OP at all, yes you can master it with effort, but can someone show me a vid of normal brawl where it is really abused?

Well Im sure there is no videos that really show this because in regular brawl, the regular shield was sufficient enough to deal with most things. Maybe we will see it in the brawl+, maybe I will focus on actually PSing the whole time...hehehehe

hitlag can be done in 10 lines indeed think it's another 2 days from done. but I'm not gonna start on fake hitlag I think, other things are more important. horizantal movement for example, and we should really start to decide if we want to buff bad chars or nerf good chars in the end.[/QUOTE]

Cool. Yea the fake hitlag is not as important since it affects 5 moves...but it would be nice to have it removed later on down the road...

I think individual buffs or nerfs should come last when the mechanics are fix though....what does everyone think?

 

[Deleted member]

I'll put that in "character specific" for now

 

[kupo15]

I'll put that in "character specific" for now

put what in character specific?