COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[GPDP]

We recently got news that Gecko 2.0 is not coming out. Which means we are desperate for lines now. I doubt it will be added given our current small space to work with

You gotta be kidding me. Link?

 

[cAm8ooo]

Someone gave me a link in the chat. I cant find it now. Maybe you can ask one of them. Apparently one of the main guys got mad and left.

 

[The Night Cat]

Crouch cancelling has been around for more than a month hasn't it?

Edit:
And it's in the plussery at least up to 3.2

 

[cAm8ooo]

He means the old kind of crouch canceling. Not the kind we have now where you crouch during a dash.

Also, Gecko may still come out. Who knows, have hope.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Dash Canceling=crouching to cancel a dash
Crouch Canceling=crouching to reduce the knockback of an attack.

 

[The Night Cat]

Oh yeah I remember that now.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

eww no locks...

usless code is usless,btw is it possible to add lightsheilding?

 

[PanzerOceania]

WHAT! GeckOS, that is seriously bad news, I hope that they work it out, we really could use that.

eww no locks...

usless code is usless,btw is it possible to add lightsheilding?

yes bringing back analog shielding would be GOD.

 

[GPDP]

Analog shielding is pretty much a pipe dream. Brawl does not see any buttons as being analog.

 

[Alopex]

I love it when people come in here out of nowhere and just start bashing the work the coders do, calling it useless.

It's great when people come in here flaunting such arrogance. I'm positive the coders enjoy that kind of ungratefulness.

I'll answer your question anyway despite your rudeness, mc-killa. No, it is not possible, because codes can't change how the Wii receives inputs. Brawl does not recognize the analog component of the Gamecube. The Wiimote/Nunchuk control options don't even have analog input to begin with and so the ability to receive analog input is nowhere in Brawl, and never will be. The ability to recognize analog input is entirely hardware. We can't change that with a code.

 

[matt4300]

@_@ my heart just sunk... no geko os 2.0 means... no balanceing... no balanceing means this will be just like every other smash bros.... I must see this link before I give up.

 

[Alopex]

@_@ my heart just sunk... no geko os 2.0 means... no balanceing... no balanceing means this will be just like every other smash bros.... I must see this link before I give up.

Umm, what? We're doing an excellent job balancing as it is with the Beta sets. The codes are already in place and are already in use.
Or what, is changing fall speed, SH heights, FH heights, Link's UpB height, Bowser's thick skin, MK's flimsy armor, momentum transfer (soon), landing lags, and frame speed/end lag/start-up of moves not enough character balancing for you?
What more is there? Knockback and damage? Those ratios are fine with very very few exceptions. That code is hardly needed for balancing. The main think we want it for at this point is just Sheik's Ftilt fix.

So what more do you want Matt?

And you say "just like every other smash bros" as if there's something wrong with the series. Why are you playing this game if you didn't even like the previous Smash games?




Gecko 2.0 would have been nice, but it's not a necessity. If anything, no Gecko 2.0 is probably better because it means we won't have people trying to include every single frivolous code just "because we can now". The line limit keeps us focused. And it's important that we maintain that degree of focus until we get the standard in place. Otherwise, with unlimited lines and no focus, we'd be at this forever...
It's better that Gecko 2.0 comes out later, well after the B+ standard is complete, because then we'll know what it is that needs to fixed/added and we'll have the Gecko 2.0 unlimitedness to give us the freedom to make all those necessary changes in the future. Knowing ahead of time what needs to be fixed will let us use the later unlimitedness of Gecko 2.0 effeciently, in a focused manner. Until then, Gecko 2.0 would just slow us down.

 

[Sanu]

What's the generally accepted value for the friction modifier? Thanks!

 

[MuBa]

What's the generally accepted value for the friction modifier? Thanks!

We need to get a character specific friction modifier. Because adding traction destroys Dash-Attack-Canceled-Up-Smash which we don't want at all.

 

[abcool]

What's the generally accepted value for the friction modifier? Thanks!

Well if u want some traction, try 0.03 or 0.05 if 03 isn't enough, but don't get used to it. Muba is right we need it character specific

 

[Shell]

Umm, what? We're doing an excellent job balancing as it is with the Beta sets. The codes are already in place and are already in use.
Or what, is changing fall speed, SH heights, FH heights, Link's UpB height, Bowser's thick skin, MK's flimsy armor, momentum transfer (soon), landing lags, and frame speed/end lag/start-up of moves not enough character balancing for you?
What more is there? Knockback and damage? Those ratios are fine with very very few exceptions. That code is hardly needed for balancing. The main think we want it for at this point is just Sheik's Ftilt fix.

So what more do you want Matt?

And you say "just like every other smash bros" as if there's something wrong with the series. Why are you playing this game if you didn't even like the previous Smash games?




Gecko 2.0 would have been nice, but it's not a necessity. If anything, no Gecko 2.0 is probably better because it means we won't have people trying to include every single frivolous code just "because we can now". The line limit keeps us focused. And it's important that we maintain that degree of focus until we get the standard in place. Otherwise, with unlimited lines and no focus, we'd be at this forever...
It's better that Gecko 2.0 comes out later, well after the B+ standard is complete, because then we'll know what it is that needs to fixed/added and we'll have the Gecko 2.0 unlimitedness to give us the freedom to make all those necessary changes in the future. Knowing ahead of time what needs to be fixed will let us use the later unlimitedness of Gecko 2.0 effeciently, in a focused manner. Until then, Gecko 2.0 would just slow us down.

That's like arguing that losing a leg is good because it makes you more focused on learning to walk again. Matt4300 has a point that character balance is better than vBrawl, but still has a little ways to go.

While no Gecko 2.0 might have small side benefits, I don't think it's as good a thing as you're saying. Limitations can be helpful, but I don't think we're ready for that yet. What happens when we get tourney results back and we have no room to make the adjustments necessary to really get everyone on the same level, not just viable?

 

[Revven]

As far as the Gecko 2.0 discussion goes, Igglyboo and comex are planning to try and finish Gecko 2.0. It's going to be tricky though because they have to get the source code from Nuke (the creator who recently quit) and Nuke has removed all his online contact information (e-mails, messengers, Wii information, and etc.) So, it's impossible to contact him online. Igglyboo is going to try and send a letter or something if that's possible.

brkirch also has a very buggy version of Gecko 2.0, it might be possible to fix that one up, we don't know.

The point is, if we don't get Gecko 2.0, we need to be prepared for it, and if we do it's going to be postponed EVEN further. We will just go with our original plan that we had with the 256 line limit until we are secure with Gecko 2.0.

 

[Alopex]

That's like arguing that losing a leg is good because it makes you more focused on learning to walk again. Matt4300 has a point that character balance is better than vBrawl, but still has a little ways to go.

Umm... what? Losing a leg won't help you walk better because walking by definition REQUIRES two legs. Gecko 2.0 is in no way a requirement for the creation codes or the creation of a standard codeset. So that was a terrible analogy, Shell.

While no Gecko 2.0 might have small side benefits, I don't think it's as good a thing as you're saying. Limitations can be helpful, but I don't think we're ready for that yet. What happens when we get tourney results back and we have no room to make the adjustments necessary to really get everyone on the same level, not just viable?

To assume that Gecko 2.0 will never come out is nonsense. The guys lost the major coder, yes, but a lot of the work is already done. Gecko 2.0 will come out eventually.

And I think that is exactly what is best, specifically because of the post-tourney evals. And I already covered the "why" of that in my previous post. So here you go:

It's better that Gecko 2.0 comes out later, well after the B+ standard is complete, because then we'll know what it is that needs to fixed/added and we'll have the Gecko 2.0 unlimitedness to give us the freedom to make all those necessary changes in the future. Knowing ahead of time what needs to be fixed will let us use the later unlimitedness of Gecko 2.0 efficiently, in a focused manner. Until then, Gecko 2.0 would just slow us down.

We've been ready for limitations since the start of this project. Everyone's been operating under the imposed limit of 256 the whole time. Those who counted their chickens before they hatched are the only ones who "aren't prepared". The Plusery and everyone who's been making a codeset has been ready for this outcome from the very beginning. Otherwise, there wouldn't be so much emphasis placed on shortening code.


At this point, balancing in Brawl+ is vastly superior to vBrawl and better than Melee balancing. At this point, there are only a couple of character specific things that really need need to get fixed (like Sheik's Ftilt) and we still have the codespace to fit stuff like that in. So I don't see why everyone is going all emo.

 

[shanus]

Alopex put it well. We'll be fine. There are some codes which would be nice to have but are by no means required. The sky is not falling, we barelyhave any more to change.

 

[Dan_X]

Alopex put it well. We'll be fine. There are some codes which would be nice to have but are by no means required. The sky is not falling, we barelyhave any more to change.

Shanus, sorry for not going on the IRC last night, I've been quite busy. I don't think I'll be around until quite late tonight to go on it either. Could you e-mail me the "safer" codeset?

Basically, the Plussery is a must, so that's to be included. I love the momentum code, so that's a must--- and if people are using the universal character size modifier (which seems to work well) I'd love to use that too. If you could send it to my e-mail I'd greatly appreciate it!

my e-mail is:

delkin525@gmail.com

thanks man! Sorry to hear that you won't be able to make it!

 

[abcool]

Ok so i am using the frame speed modifer data from the plusery, what am i suppose to do to get that No locks code to work, don't tell me count the byte data give me numbers. I just need to add that 1 line in the OP and idk how to get it to work cause then idk how to change my byte count.

 

[Alopex]

Abcool, it's easy:

The first line of the Frame Mod code looks like this:
065A9400 000000XX

The XX is calculated like this:
- Add up the total number lines after the first line (eg. 20)
- Multiply that number by 8 (eg. 20 x 8 = 160)
- Take the product and put it in hex (eg. 160 in hex is A0, so XX=A0 in this example)

I use this site to make my conversions:
http://www.easysurf.cc/cnver17.htm#b10tob16

So every time you add or remove a line, you'll have to modify the XX accordingly. And now you know how.

That's all there is to it.
"Teach a man how to fish..." etc.

 

[abcool]

Abcool, it's easy:

The first line of the Frame Mod code looks like this:
065A9400 000000XX

The XX is calculated like this:
- Add up the total number lines after the first line (eg. 20)
- Multiply that number by 8 (eg. 20 x 8 = 160)
- Take the product and put it in hex (eg. 160 in hex is A0, so XX=A0 in this example)

I use this site to make my conversions:
http://www.easysurf.cc/cnver17.htm#b10tob16

So every time you add or remove a line, you'll have to modify the XX accordingly. And now you know how.

That's all there is to it.
"Teach a man how to fish..." etc.

Wow thanks Alopex. Now i can do it with ease. Seriously u broke that down and it was simple for me.

 

[kupo15]

Abcool, it's easy:

The first line of the Frame Mod code looks like this:
065A9400 000000XX

The XX is calculated like this:
- Add up the total number lines after the first line (eg. 20)
- Multiply that number by 8 (eg. 20 x 8 = 160)
- Take the product and put it in hex (eg. 160 in hex is A0, so XX=A0 in this example)

I use this site to make my conversions:
http://www.easysurf.cc/cnver17.htm#b10tob16

So every time you add or remove a line, you'll have to modify the XX accordingly. And now you know how.

That's all there is to it.
"Teach a man how to fish..." etc.

Or you can just calculate in calculator program, then click the hex mode and it will auto convert

 

[matt4300]

Umm, what? We're doing an excellent job balancing as it is with the Beta sets. The codes are already in place and are already in use.
Or what, is changing fall speed, SH heights, FH heights, Link's UpB height, Bowser's thick skin, MK's flimsy armor, momentum transfer (soon), landing lags, and frame speed/end lag/start-up of moves not enough character balancing for you?
What more is there? Knockback and damage? Those ratios are fine with very very few exceptions. That code is hardly needed for balancing. The main think we want it for at this point is just Sheik's Ftilt fix.

So what more do you want Matt?

And you say "just like every other smash bros" as if there's something wrong with the series. Why are you playing this game if you didn't even like the previous Smash games?




Gecko 2.0 would have been nice, but it's not a necessity. If anything, no Gecko 2.0 is probably better because it means we won't have people trying to include every single frivolous code just "because we can now". The line limit keeps us focused. And it's important that we maintain that degree of focus until we get the standard in place. Otherwise, with unlimited lines and no focus, we'd be at this forever...
It's better that Gecko 2.0 comes out later, well after the B+ standard is complete, because then we'll know what it is that needs to fixed/added and we'll have the Gecko 2.0 unlimitedness to give us the freedom to make all those necessary changes in the future. Knowing ahead of time what needs to be fixed will let us use the later unlimitedness of Gecko 2.0 effeciently, in a focused manner. Until then, Gecko 2.0 would just slow us down.

I diden't say you where doing a bad job. Right now I'm pretty much out of lines, and it is NOT balanced every char can NOT win a touney at this point. I love what has been added, but there are still chars that have been agreed to need buffing, and nerfing. Shiek, Snake, Samus, Yoshi, Ivy, Bowser (yes still bowser).
I don't think there will be enough lines to balance the game to where every char has the tools to win a touney. So by "like every other smash game" I mean; horribly balanced with very strick teirs. Thats not to say all the balanceing in the world will somehow make tiers disappear. Because that will never happen, but we can close alot of the gap with enough buffs and nerfs. Without 2.0 I don't think there will be enough lines to make a very balanced game.

I hope I'm wrong, but I also hope that if im not wrong and every touney turns into a high tier **** fest where everyone is playing Mk, Snake, Marth, ZSS, Toonlink, Diddy, Falcon, Fox, Wolf... ect. Then all of the hard work by the smash community to balance this game will have gone to waste.
I wouldn't care if it came out later rather than sooner but, I do care if it never comes out at all.

EDIT: I guess I have counted my chickens before they hatched... Ive been to caught up with 2.0 and didn't think that it might not come out.

 

[Shadic]

If we can get at least nine or ten characters to be "Top tier," then we'll basically have the best balance of any Smash game.

 

[kupo15]

2x^^^There is no amount of lines nor great a code that can fix player incompetence. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone either.

I think every character can win right now

 

[Shell]

That doesn't mean anything. Every character always could win.

But I agree, of course this is an improvement.

 

[SketchHurricane]

I hope I'm wrong, but I also hope that if im not wrong and every touney turns into a high tier **** fest where everyone is playing Mk, Snake, Marth, ZSS, Toonlink, Diddy, Falcon, Fox, Wolf... ect. Then all of the hard work by the smash community to balance this game will have gone to waste.

You're thinking of the balancing effort as a one-time thing. If B+ becomes the tourney standard, best believe we will be continually balancing the game for the rest of it's life span! That's what a true balancing effort is, an ongoing process. There's no way we'll get it right the first time.

 

[Sanu]

Well if u want some traction, try 0.03 or 0.05 if 03 isn't enough, but don't get used to it. Muba is right we need it character specific

Hmm, alright. Thanks guys

 

[Shadic]

That doesn't mean anything. Every character always could win.

But I agree, of course this is an improvement.

No. Pichu has no victory screen.

 

[Revven]

Y.S. posted this in another thread.

Ledge Invincibility Duration (Y.S.)
04B88EB4 0000XXXX
Default: 0017

No idea if it works for US Brawl, someone test. If it doesn't, we need someone to port it.

 

[Swordplay]

Wow. I really like the jab lock thing.

You can even initiate a single jab if they fail to tech to force a get up. (much harder)

But punishing that get up got a lot harder......

I thought it was gonna be bad but it isn't as terrible as I originally thought.

 

[Rikana]

As far as the Gecko 2.0 discussion goes, Igglyboo and comex are planning to try and finish Gecko 2.0. It's going to be tricky though because they have to get the source code from Nuke (the creator who recently quit) and Nuke has removed all his online contact information (e-mails, messengers, Wii information, and etc.) So, it's impossible to contact him online. Igglyboo is going to try and send a letter or something if that's possible.

He has a GBAtemp account I believe. His username's [Nuke] (with the square brackets). I'm only assuming though. But he did mention this:

"well you all know I'm firmly against all this. I can't support something that tries to kill USB gecko, Gecko OS, Gecko 2.0 and users who support and use my stuff. Boot commercial games is important for Gecko users and what i work hard for.

Its not getting one over on pirates, as piracy on the Wii will always be there as the DVD is not secure. This just screws homebrewers like me and the 20,000+ Wiird members who use and enjoy my tools."

I think that's a giveway that he's the one under the team.

Links to his posts: http://gbatemp.net/index.php?act=Se...e470517cf48&search_in=posts&result_type=posts

Just don't bombard him with messages.

"Last Seen: 2nd January 2009 - 05:27 AM "

Edit: Yeah, I checked. It is him. He was mad that his name was used under a program he didn't have any involvement. It was to use the Geckos to load backups by WiiGator. Basically, he didn't want to be referred to for piracy. I guess he was against pircay as well.

 

[ShortFuse]

I found glitch with Auto Sweetspot off. If you're Fox and you UP+B if Mario turns you around with his cape, you'll grab the edge backwards, as in you'll be INSIDE the platform, holding on to the ledge from the wrong side.

 

[zxeon]

That happens even without the code Shortfuse.

 

[ShortFuse]

That happens even without the code Shortfuse.

hmm, didn't know that

 

[kupo15]

I figured out the ledge value to have vb ledge invinc with a faster ledge grab. Its 0026

 

[Swordplay]

How much do you plan to decrease the ledge invincibility by?

O and if you do fast fall specials, I request fast fall zairs too. Currently they do not fast fall.

If you can do fast fall specials, and fast fall normal air moves, you should be allowed to do fast fall zairs.

My character specific reasons......

1. It would fix any remaining problems with Samus. Right now a lot of you complain about her lack of kill moves but this allows samus to more easily combo into some of those stronger moves if timed right. It ultimatly gives her the kill options you all complain about without increasing knockback

2. It would fix any remaining problems Toon Link being floaty for the system. Toon Link doesn't need this as much as the other character but his benefit from it would be limited as his zair isn't as good as Links/Samus.

3. It finally gives Link the improve approach combo's he deserves and lacks. Right now he relies on defense/spacing approach to start combo's. He still lacks any true offense due to his speed and this would help.

 

[The Cape]

Swordplay. Link, Samus, and TL all destroy right now. They dont need any other fixes.

Also, you can FF zairs, just FF, then do the move. Try it.