☆_Mutha-Foxin GangstaKirby_☆
Banned via Warnings
best, idea, EVERTake it from Jiggs, give it to Metaknight, and that can be the final nerf nail in his coffin.
-gives you 10 internets and a bucket of win-
-
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COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda
- Thread starter kupo15
- Start date
-gives you 10 internets and a bucket of win-
Considering that we arent using WDing anyways. Not because of the code being ****ty, but because we dont want WDing.
People need to stop associating Wavedashing with B+. And rather, associate it with Melee 2.0.
Some other hack project being done in the land of "Shut the **** up and Make your own God **** code."
People need to stop associating Wavedashing with B+. And rather, associate it with Melee 2.0.
Some other hack project being done in the land of "Shut the **** up and Make your own God **** code."
I can't hack games, but some people obviously can, and those people made a code to make it possible to wavedash.
There is nothing more lame than not reading posts. I for instance haven't said that anything is easy. By saying "As good as the coders here are, that should be no problem." I'm actually saying that compared to what they actually have accomplished this should be easy. Which doesn't mean that it IS easy, only that it seems to be a possible job for the hackers who already have done a great job coding all those codes that are posted as for now. By all means; props to them. They have already made codes that removes lag/frames where you can't do anything, so why shouldn't the opposite work?
Speak for yourself. I bet most Melee players would have fun with a WD that can be used, as the code who makes it happen already has been made. And you know that most codes posted here are codes that makes Brawl more like Melee, right? So, Brawl+ is a Brawl that is supposed to be more like Melee, whether you like it or not. There is no "Melee 2.0", and to make it, you'd have to make a whole new game. Not an easy hobby project, tbh.
Why don't you just go back to Brawl, instead of criticizing me for coming with a suggestion for an improvement to the WD code? I don't believe I'm the first one to come with such suggestions. Learn to WD and shut up, lol.
Revven
FrankerZ
I don't have the time to quote every part of your post that bothers me so, I will just number it instead.
1. We gave WD a chance, way back in October with the first code when it was completely ridden of the bugs. Later, we realized that the wavedash is too powerful for all of the characters in the game (meaning, everyone gets a good WD, almost as good as Luigi's). It also crippled the air game and made combos impossible to escape with hitstun. If we wanted them escapable, we'd have to lower hitstun even more, which is a terrible idea as the current hitstun we have right now I feel is perfect, any lower and we lose ****.
2. None of us HATE WD'ing, we like it in Melee, but it doesn't FIT in Brawl AT ALL. Can you WD off platforms? No. Can you WD to edgehog? No. You can't do any of that in Brawl. All you can do with it is space your ground moves and SOME moves in the game stop all your momentum during the slide, canceling the momentum if you go forward (CF's Dsmash and Fsmash for example, Luigi's Fsmash). Of course, there were some moves like this in Melee as well but, it's not a high amount in Melee as it is in Brawl. Nextly, again, it cripples the air game and the AD doesn't work like it should (as in, doesn't have lag for each character and doesn't last individually for each character like in Melee).
3. All the mechanics we have added thus far are from BOTH Smash games, Smash 64 AND Melee. WD'ing is the ONLY mechanic exlcusive to Melee so, that's HOW this project is nothing like Melee and why we don't call it "Melee 2.0". NASL, L-canceling, DD'ing, Crouch cancel, and etc. are all core smash mechanics that were taken out of Brawl. They are not, I repeat, NOT just from Melee. I'm sick of people like yourself just looking at Melee and ignoring the game that started it all: Smash 64. Get your head out of your *** and actually think for a minute about what we've done so far and is making this game "like Melee". All of the characters have retained their original Brawl physics and only a few have taken some heavier/fastfaller gravity. It doesn't feel like Melee because it isn't TRYING to be like Melee.
^ Like I haven't played the 64-version, lol. Yes, I play both Melee and SSB64. I don't play Brawl of obvious reasons, but I like this project, as it gives Brawl more potential as a good game.
You can't say that these techniques weren't in Melee, and that's my point. The only thing who truly reminds me of SSB64 alone is the shield canceling. Why haven't they added a "NO DI" or "useless shield"-possibility like smash 64 has? They made WD a feature in this code thread, so that's why I suggested what i did. I tried the WD code as it is now, and saw the lack of possibility to use it well. Do you have a video showing how "broken" WD is in Brawl, or is it just bull****? This can never be Melee 2.0, due to the physics is Brawl, and I see no potential in making it just like or close to Melee(that's also the answer to why it doesn't feel like Melee). The normal Brawl game isn't funny to me, so I'd still love to see a full working WD feature like Melee(yes, Melee's the only game who has wavedash of these games, and that's what my suggestion was about in the first place).
I was into this project long before someone actually made a single code, and I never saw them mention anything about "SSB64", what they said was mostly about Melee, as that's by far the most competitive smash game out there, and the title of this topic says "COMPETITVE Brawl", right?
I haven't studied the WD code 100% as it is now, so you may be right at most of your points. It might not fit in Brawl, but i think it's a cool feature anyways. None of these other codes are features that were ment to be in Brawl either.
I don't want this to become a even more lame discussion about everything else but what my suggestion wa about in the first place<_<
You can't say that these techniques weren't in Melee, and that's my point. The only thing who truly reminds me of SSB64 alone is the shield canceling. Why haven't they added a "NO DI" or "useless shield"-possibility like smash 64 has? They made WD a feature in this code thread, so that's why I suggested what i did. I tried the WD code as it is now, and saw the lack of possibility to use it well. Do you have a video showing how "broken" WD is in Brawl, or is it just bull****? This can never be Melee 2.0, due to the physics is Brawl, and I see no potential in making it just like or close to Melee(that's also the answer to why it doesn't feel like Melee). The normal Brawl game isn't funny to me, so I'd still love to see a full working WD feature like Melee(yes, Melee's the only game who has wavedash of these games, and that's what my suggestion was about in the first place).
I was into this project long before someone actually made a single code, and I never saw them mention anything about "SSB64", what they said was mostly about Melee, as that's by far the most competitive smash game out there, and the title of this topic says "COMPETITVE Brawl", right?
I haven't studied the WD code 100% as it is now, so you may be right at most of your points. It might not fit in Brawl, but i think it's a cool feature anyways. None of these other codes are features that were ment to be in Brawl either.
I don't want this to become a even more lame discussion about everything else but what my suggestion wa about in the first place<_<
shanus
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2005
- Messages
- 6,055
Tonberry, the purpose of this project is not to cater to individual interest, its to heighten brawl to a more balanced and competitive game. However, its end goal is to become viable in tournaments and accrue significant tournament attendance. It has been demonstrated MANY times that both Melee & Brawl players alike have been completely turned off by just the IDEA of it being incorporated and wouldnt want to try it.
We have tried the codes many times and underwent extensive debate. You might have missed these discussions, but I'm sorry, its just not going to happen.
We have tried the codes many times and underwent extensive debate. You might have missed these discussions, but I'm sorry, its just not going to happen.
Hahahahahahahaha. What. You obviously have no idea what Brawl+ is trying to achieve. I suggest you actually read up on what we do and lurk more before saying, "Brawl+ is a Brawl that is supposed to be more like Melee." when a good portion of the changes made to B+ are existent in pretty much the previous versions AND to an extent Brawl itself.
Go back to Brawl? Why don't you go back to Brawl? Or Melee? Or whatever. I'm criticizing you from trying to suggest adding WDing back into Brawl+ when its the main mechanic/one of the top mechanics that made Melee, when its been obviously stated that the MAJORITY of the community said NO to WDing. You can go ahead an improve it, request to improve it and what not, but suggesting/telling/debating/arguing to add WDing to Brawl+ is a general waste of time because it wont happen. Why? The Majority community doesnt want it, and this is a community project?
What in the god splitting balls does this have to do with anything? Its completely irrelevant to both your argument and the argument in general and is nothing but a petty statement that holds no weight on anything except how ignorant you've made yourself looking. You're also stating that I don't know how to WD which is a bald face lie, and even if I did, what difference does it make? I know what its used for and I know how to use it. Even if I didn't, its still a moot point because, once again, its irrelevant to the argument.
GG Failing.
kupo15
Smash Hero
Apparently he is saying one of three things:
Brawl+ sucks without wavedashing
Brawl+ can't be competitive without wavedashing
I can't play without wavedashing
I dunno. Not trying to be mean but that is seriously what I got from everything he said. >_<
trojanpooh
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2007
- Messages
- 1,183
Also, even if we did approve of WD here, the code is too broken. I can WD flawlessly in Brawl, but can just barely use it as Luigi in Melee. An ability as good as WD should never be as easy as the code was, also Brawl is better without it.
This is getting a bit out of hand, guys.
I get that wavedashing has been a heavily debated argument, and that the wavedashing code has given the project a lot of negative attention. As of now, someone saying "I want wavedashing" is beating a dead horse into a pile of furry pudding.
However, stop jumping down people's throats when they start talking about wavedashing. Tell them why it's not being implemented, point them in the right direction, and let it be. If they escalate the argument, then so be it.
We don't want to turn people away from this project because of ignorance. We want to turn people away from this project for stupidity.
I get that wavedashing has been a heavily debated argument, and that the wavedashing code has given the project a lot of negative attention. As of now, someone saying "I want wavedashing" is beating a dead horse into a pile of furry pudding.
However, stop jumping down people's throats when they start talking about wavedashing. Tell them why it's not being implemented, point them in the right direction, and let it be. If they escalate the argument, then so be it.
We don't want to turn people away from this project because of ignorance. We want to turn people away from this project for stupidity.
osh77
Smash Cadet
No one is stopping you from putting it in your own codeset, but the vast majority here still disapproves of MAD in brawl. Please don't let it stop you from trying it out/ playing with it, just take into consideration that your version isn't what is being defined as the standard.
****Please don't take this as a flame or in any way a proMAD or antiMAD comment, I don't see why people can't have fun with their own game and attempting to see if any coders would be willing to take up the challenge that tonberry is calling for.
Edit: although it might be best to just PM a coder for that last point as to avoid confrontation.
****Please don't take this as a flame or in any way a proMAD or antiMAD comment, I don't see why people can't have fun with their own game and attempting to see if any coders would be willing to take up the challenge that tonberry is calling for.
Edit: although it might be best to just PM a coder for that last point as to avoid confrontation.
GHNeko: And YOU are calling my posts ignorant? F*cking read your own posts, god dammit.
I didn't expect a random moron to flame me because I haven't been into the 530 last pages of discussion. What I know is that the WD feature was added pretty early, and that someone still was improving the code. I haven't been into this lame discussion, and since you have, you've probably not seen me there. You can't expect that everybody who's posting here has followed the discussions going on here. Of course, if it was 4-5 pages, i could understand you, but that's not the case. This thread is not "locked" for just some people who have been into this discussion all the time.
Now I got a PM saying that only mentioning WD in this topic is to ask for a lame war. Well, how arrogant isn't THAT?
I obviously have missed the big WD debate, but how many people have time to read 534 godd4mn pages of text? I don't. I just poped in on the last page, never knowing that my suggestion would bring a big flame war. Cool to see that at least someone knows how to answer people less ********, though. Props to you for that.
I didn't expect a random moron to flame me because I haven't been into the 530 last pages of discussion. What I know is that the WD feature was added pretty early, and that someone still was improving the code. I haven't been into this lame discussion, and since you have, you've probably not seen me there. You can't expect that everybody who's posting here has followed the discussions going on here. Of course, if it was 4-5 pages, i could understand you, but that's not the case. This thread is not "locked" for just some people who have been into this discussion all the time.
Now I got a PM saying that only mentioning WD in this topic is to ask for a lame war. Well, how arrogant isn't THAT?
The purpose of my suggestion was a more competitive feature to the WD.
I obviously have missed the big WD debate, but how many people have time to read 534 godd4mn pages of text? I don't. I just poped in on the last page, never knowing that my suggestion would bring a big flame war. Cool to see that at least someone knows how to answer people less ********, though. Props to you for that.
osh77
Smash Cadet
Understood, but you can't blame the guy for coming to this thread to talk about it, this is pretty much the basis of all possible codes in brawl.
GHNeko: Sure. Elvolving one code would hurt your whole community, wouldn't it? Cuz people can't add which code they want, right? I don't think you are the right person to talk about elitism, cuz what you are doing is ****ing elitism to this so-called "Brawl+" project. And Brawl+ isn't even a game. I remember people here used to be more open minded, which made more creativity, but that will never happen with people like you on the line.
I've never said any of those things, but as the coders have made pretty good codes for everything else, so I came with a suggestion to improve one of these codes. But as the Brawl+ community has envolved now, it seems that some suggestions are breaking some sort of "law" here. Just flaming some people coming with a suggestion without telling anything about this horrifying WD discussion is totally lame.
In the first place i was only talking about WD and Brawl+, and a feature to put in lag frames to make it more usable. Like WD to smash or whatever.
I've never said any of those things, but as the coders have made pretty good codes for everything else, so I came with a suggestion to improve one of these codes. But as the Brawl+ community has envolved now, it seems that some suggestions are breaking some sort of "law" here. Just flaming some people coming with a suggestion without telling anything about this horrifying WD discussion is totally lame.
You know what. Fine. Okay. I could turn down the tone of my posts, but I dont recall calling you stupid or ignorant or a moron. I said you're made yourself look like one by insulting me in the first place. You just called me stupid, and you're calling me a flamer? What? My posts could be turned down a bit, but they're not ignorant because I dont go off baseless statements and arguements.
But whatever dude. Ill chill the tone of my own voice, but you could do the same as well. :/
Its just that it kinda feels like people come in ask for certain things without reading or learning about what can be done/what cant and what the community wants to be done/doesn't want to be done. That's all. I kinda wish they would stop asking to put it in Brawl+. If they want to talk about it, create a new thread devoted to it, and leave it out of other threads. But they also have to realize that the coders are primarily working on B+ so even if they do ask for a respectable fix, it wont be high priority.
EDIT: Oh god what the fffff.
People can add whatever code they want, but we're talking about B+ which is going by a standard, and I'm going on the assumption anyone interested in Brawl+ is going to be using the Standard Brawlplussery code. If people are going to use B+, they'll be pushed towards Brawlplussery. Simple. They dont have to use the B+ery codeset, but by doing so, they really wont be playing B+.
You're calling me elitist? I'm not being elitist. I'm standing by what Brawl+ represents and by what community wants. I am open minded. If you looked at the techjumping thread, I'm all for adding techjumping for Brawl. If I seem close-minded and elitist to you becase I'm shutting down WDing, that would be wrong to assume. If we've heavily discuss something and said no it, that's not being close minded, saying no to something that we had an open mind to and felt that it wouldnt work. Why the hell are you insulting me and calling me an elitist and close-minded? How is that relavent? How does that help your arguement when the community says No to B+. Please stop attacking me because it's pointless to do so.
There you go
But as said: you can't really expect people to follow a debate on a topic with more than 500 pages. No human being would ever do that, seriously<_<
Well, its only 200 pages for me, but eh. I follow well enough by hanging in the IRC. I read the last few pages to get the jist of the current situation, and then I ask questions before saying stuff.There you go
But as said: you can't really expect people to follow a debate on a topic with more than 500 pages. No human being would ever do that, seriously<_<
shanus
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2005
- Messages
- 6,055
Guys, his question has been answered. All of you need to need to not be so quick to jump down his throat either. I answered his question in like 5 lines while being courteous at the same time. Post nicely otherwise its only going to be damaging to our reputation.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Revven
FrankerZ
There's actually several old and dead topics about the subject you can ind by searching in GBD for "Melee Air Dodge", you should find a 6-7 page topic about it where most of the debate took place many months ago.There you go
But as said: you can't really expect people to follow a debate on a topic with more than 500 pages. No human being would ever do that, seriously<_<
Red-Blue
Was selected randomly
[EDIT] Never mind.
Yeah, like everybody's expecting that a harmless suggestion requires research.
I'm pretty sure I'd post that suggestion anyways, cuz some coder did the code, and I'd still love to see him develop it further more.
I'm not asking for a change of your "standard" or anything like that.
Thing is its a waste of our coder's time right now to further improve upon this code (again...) when he could be working for the benefit of almost all of the community, and not the few outliers who still want this.
So, I'm sorry to say you won't be getting a new HAD/MAD code any time soon.
So, I'm sorry to say you won't be getting a new HAD/MAD code any time soon.
abcool
Smash Ace
is there gonna be a code to jc grab again...it was really useful before. also is fox's lasers gonna go fully across the screen again because it's just plain stupid how they fade in such a short distance. if not kupo give me feed back on why not
Team Giza
Smash Lord
Fox's lasers are very effective in Brawl+ and don't need to be buffed. If they make contact with a shield you can continue to shoot them until about 1/3 of their shield is gone. The distance does not need to be increased.
abcool
Smash Ace
well i didn't know that the lasers were that effective because i use fox like his melee counterpart (meaning i don't stand in one spot and use lasers) i was saying that because when ff on lasers(hoping that means di) come out i wanted to be able to space without that gay length hindering me. i was be able to move and fire with me being mobile. watch a m2k fox vid to see what i mean....it's part of every pro fox metagame even in the n64 version.
leafgreen386
Dirty camper
Do they still lock even with the lowered shieldstun (10/20/5 or 2/4/1)? Honestly, I find it stupid they nerfed the distance on fox's lasers but not on falco's, which actually stun. It's not something that needs to be done, though.
Shell
Flute-Fox Only
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2007
- Messages
- 2,042
I don't know if it's completely necessary, but JC grabs do have one advantage: You can jump at any point in the dash, initial or not. You cannot CC or Shield (yet) in the initial frames so you have to wait for the initial dash animation to end to do any canceled grab. This puts a gap in your options in between the range of your standing grab and the end of your initial dash where you can cancel the grab.
Shield during DD will solve this, I suppose.
Uzima (Uzi)
Smash Lord
just a quick question to the brawl+ people's.
there was a post early in this thread about fox maybe having a code to let him jump out of the shine, was that ever worked on or was it just abandoned for better codes too be made?
+1 for boosted laser distance
there was a post early in this thread about fox maybe having a code to let him jump out of the shine, was that ever worked on or was it just abandoned for better codes too be made?
+1 for boosted laser distance
Eaode
Smash Champion
I don't think the distance is needed if we can just fastfall during them and not have them slow us to a standstill when using them. Right now they're so clumsy in the air to the point of being useless. And using them on the ground is pretty stupid most of the time.
The old shieldstun only let them lock up to about half their range. Past that point, they wouldn't lock. It was entirely harmless. Furthermore, that only happened before the hitlag code was applying to the attacked character. For projectiles, hitlag compounds with shieldstun to form a combined shieldstun length. With the hitlag code now properly applying, the hitlag of the lasers would be reduced and thus so would the combined shieldstun. That alone would've been enough to even further reduce the lock's range.
An even lowered shieldstun value now means the laser lock will be gone for all but the closest of ranges, the range at which it is entirely impractical for Fox to even consider pulling out his laser.
So the lock, which was never really an issue with the old shieldstun, can be bid farewell.
Team Giza
Smash Lord
I do not think that Fox's lasers need to be nerfed. It works pretty well with his play style IMO. I didn't know it wouldn't lock from far away so now I dont care if the lasers distance is increased somehow.
the_judge
Smash Journeyman
Something tells me a jc grab would be too OP or not work properly.
On the Fox issue, I support increased laser length.
On the Fox issue, I support increased laser length.
kupo15
Smash Hero
Off subject but no less a competitive problem. When we were playing team battle, and one member dies, the game would auto steal a life. Any idea why?
abcool
Smash Ace
Ok fox's fixes. 1) jc shine is only for melee so i say NO for brawl+ 2) i think fox needs his full range back with his lasers and 3) i think he needs to be able to DI when he uses lasers. EX. i am fox and i am fighting a marth.. the marth is jumping to fake me with a fair. i can now jump and triple laser while di*ing backwards to avoid a possible *fair* from a fake out. ok i suck at explaining, but u guys got the picture.
cobaltblue
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2007
- Messages
- 455
The same could be said for the shield color codes or the giga bowser code. A person can't know till they ask.
kupo15
Smash Hero
no locks anymore