COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[Sanu]

Question for Kupo: In Melee, when you were running and you jumped, your run speed and momentum carried through with you. In Brawl, there are separate speeds for when you're running and when you're in the air. As such, your momentum does not carry with you when you jump while initially running on the ground so you end up slowing down. This can be clearly seen with Sonic, Falcon, Fox, etc.

Are you guys pushing to implement this code in Brawl? Or has it be decided that things will be left as is? Or has this even been brought up?

Thanks =)

Edit: If I wanted to get involved with creating and injecting codes into the game, how could I start? I have a programming/assembly background so I don't think it would be too difficult to jump into if someone could point me towards the proper tools ;D

 

[Dark Sonic]

I think B+ should have an emphasis on offense over defense and I don't think it quite made the switch yet

Well honestly, as much as I want that... you have to keep in mind that some people prefer to use defensive strategies. I want the game to be balanced enough for them to be able to do that successfully.

With shields being nerfed, and many aerials having less lag than spotdodges, I really don't see them being that broken. Spotdodges putting you in a neutral or even advantageous stance when you predict an approach seems perfectly legit (since to reap the full benefits you'd actually have to spotdodge a little early).

Are you guys pushing to implement this code in Brawl? Or has it be decided that things will be left as is? Or has this even been brought up?

Yes...but we don't know how to do it yet.

 

[Almas]

www.usbgecko.com

You need a USB Gecko to write codes. From there you can also find resources.

wiird.l0nk.org

The main site for discussing making the tools work etc. There is another site (gsccentral.org I think) that is more game-focused.

The coding process isn't that hard, but it's rather tedious to gather the information necessary to make a hack (e.g. finding where key variables are stored).

 

[Deleted member]

you can better ask some of the hackers what you want (and then very exact ofcourse) then they will most likely be able to make it work.

I will have some time this saturday, so dump your ideas and I'll do my best

 

[trojanpooh]

you can better ask some of the hackers what you want (and then very exact ofcourse) then they will most likely be able to make it work.

I will have some time this saturday, so dump your ideas and I'll do my best

So your saying that you are taking requests? I have a few, don't take the short list as me asking for a lot just giving you options. (in order of what I would like)

1) Disable Ladders. They just get in the way and cause problems.

2) Weaken stage hazards. So many stages would be fun if they couldn't ohko you.

3) Adjust ratio of Musroomy Kingdom 1-1 / 1-2 and Palkia/Dialga/Cresselia. Alternitivly, a way to get only 1-1 or only Palkia.

Again, I'm not expecting all of these (or any of them), but I just figured if you are offering to help, the least I can do is give you a choice. Sorry if this isn't what you meant by "dump your Ideas".

 

[shanus]

What does everyone think about spotdodges? I think they are too good and keeps the game a little on the defensive side. I think we think all spot dodges should be a set amount of frames and be a tad longer. In melee, was everyones spotdodge the same length?

Defense has been nerfed enough, no need to tip the scale any more than it already has been!

 

[Deleted member]

some nice ideas there, will look into it in the weekend.

and about spotdodges, yeah we have a good balance now, and if any we should buff offense, not nrf defense any more.

 

[GPDP]

Man, I can't wait until Almas's code is released. I wish I was testing it.

 

[trojanpooh]

some nice ideas there, will look into it in the weekend.

and about spotdodges, yeah we have a good balance now, and if any we should buff offense, not nrf defense any more.

Sweet. Thanks, I figured no one would help me because the stages that would be effected are not tourney legal. Can't wait to play 75m and Rumble Falls and enjoy them without ladders, springs of doom, and Thorns causing all sorts of unwanted shenanigans.

Edit: As far as spotdoging is concerned, I think it could use a slight, and I do mean slight, nerf. Something like 1/6 of a second recharge time after one.

 

[Finns7]

Shanus your combo vid is great


And I dont think we need to do anything to spot dodges.

 

[SketchHurricane]

Spotdodging is good, but is countered by long-lasting/multi-hit moves. Hell, pretty much everyone's jab combo will stop a spot-dodge happy opponent. I can't really think of any one character that doesn't have an answer to spotdodging. So no, I don't think spotdodging needs a nerf. It would be interesting to test, though.

 

[zxeon]

R.O.B.'s spot dodge is pretty annoying, but it's not broken.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Something like 1/6 of a second recharge time after one.

1/6th of a second is reaaaally long, especially when you don't have to account for reaction time (spotdodges take a long time, so you can even have below average reaction time and still be able to react to one).

 

[leafgreen386]

1/6 of a second is 10 frames. You're talking about adding ending lag equal to about half of what the total current time is. That's just ridiculous, especially when spotdodges don't need to be nerfed as they are.

But I agree that you should be able to shield during a dashdance. No kupo, this is not broken. Stop saying it is.

 

[kupo15]

you can better ask some of the hackers what you want (and then very exact ofcourse) then they will most likely be able to make it work.

I will have some time this saturday, so dump your ideas and I'll do my best

How is the friction code going? Maybe the best bet would be to gloablly alter characters friction instead of the ground

Defense has been nerfed enough, no need to tip the scale any more than it already has been!

I know but I think that you should be in a neutral position after a spot dodge but w/e

1/6 of a second is 10 frames. You're talking about adding ending lag equal to about half of what the total current time is. That's just ridiculous, especially when spotdodges don't need to be nerfed as they are.

But I agree that you should be able to shield during a dashdance. No kupo, this is not broken. Stop saying it is.

I never said it was. I added it to the list anyway and plan to ask it soon..geez people should read the OP once in a while instead of making accusations

 

[trojanpooh]

1/6 of a second is 10 frames. You're talking about adding ending lag equal to about half of what the total current time is. That's just ridiculous, especially when spotdodges don't need to be nerfed as they are.

But I agree that you should be able to shield during a dashdance. No kupo, this is not broken. Stop saying it is.

Whoops, your right thats too long, I was going for something more like 4 or 5 frames left helpless at tops. Really the change I was trying to get across is so subtle its probably not worth it.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Nonono. When I talk about throws lagging, I mean more than normal. Like... Normally when I dthrow with Sonic, I can go right into tech-chase. With certain codesets, I lag a bit after the throw and it messes with everything.

I think it either has something to do with the buffer, or with shield lag codes. Not quite sure, though. There's just something odd.

Also, is there any way we can make jabs cancel into grabs? It annoys the hell out of me when I try to tick throw with a jab, only to have another jab/multihit come out. D:

 

[leafgreen386]

Well, sorry kupo, but I know you used to be against shielding during a DD.

@zeal: Although I'm sure we could change the window for when a jab can lead into another jab, this may have to be a character by character thing and would be very line intensive.

I know you can perform jab cancels by crouching to go into another jab (or something else) quicker, but I don't know if this completely disables the timer or just shortens it. If it's the latter, just crouch after you jab and then try to grab. If it's not the latter... we could always make it the latter.

 

[goodoldganon]

Last I heard, there were still some freezes with your codeset Kupo, have those been ironed out? I'm finally sitting down to make a different code for when FFAing and 1v1ing.

 

[SketchHurricane]

Also, is there any way we can make jabs cancel into grabs? It annoys the hell out of me when I try to tick throw with a jab, only to have another jab/multihit come out. D:

Tick throws already work wonders for certain characters. Making that easier is just getting a bit picky IMO.

 

[dgameman1]

Tick throws already work wonders for certain characters. Making that easier is just getting a bit picky IMO.

But arent we trying to make brawl+ more accurate?

 

[B.W.]

I've been away for a while. Work has been killing me, I apologize for the absence. But really all I have to say after reading all of that (from like post 390 something) is.

Spotdodges are fine, no need to nerf them at all. They're pretty much the same as their Melee counterpart.

Throws really don't need to be sped up. I said they did at one point, but what I meant was it'd be nice if we can shorten some of the ending lag for some of them as some characters have very useless throws as they can't follow up with anything because they take so long to get out of. Best examples I can think of are Marth's d-throw and Fox's d-throw.

Throws should be an option to start your offense, mostly by using the shield grab > throw > combo/attack/whatever. Problem is that some of the characters that need it the most can't really use it. When I think about it, that might be something that we should look at for alternate characters rather than a global speed up. Reason being, some characters have killing throws, and if a character were to fail to kill with one, and got out of the lag, then it'd give them a good boost to finish them off the edge leaving the other person with less time to recover (AKA Ness b-throw > bair = ouch)

 

[Shell]

Throws are already a pretty decent combo starter for many characters. No need to homogenize this to everyone. Also:

Fox can follow up a downthrow, often with Fair

And I'm pretty sure I've seen Marth Dthrow to Fsmash before in Brawl+. I wept.

 

[storm92]

Throws are already a pretty decent combo starter for many characters. No need to homogenize this to everyone. Also:

Fox can follow up a downthrow, often with Fair

And I'm pretty sure I've seen Marth Dthrow to Fsmash before in Brawl+. I wept.

Yeah, I Dthrow to Fsmash as Marth all the time, I'm pretty sure it counts as a combo in training mode.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Tick throws already work wonders for certain characters. Making that easier is just getting a bit picky IMO.

Meanwhile, some characters have a hell of a hard time trying to tick throw. Sonic can't effectively jab cancel for some reason, so jab>grab hardly ever works. Same goes with Fox/Falcon. If you try to tick throw quickly, you just go into rapid jabs/gentleman. No good.

 

[Shell]

I can tick throw just fine with Falcon. Try jab.. shield ... grab. Timing is everything.

Edit: so I'm not sure whether this is technically a tick throw, but more often than not you can mindgame your opponent into the grab if you mix up the above combo with straight jab jab jab sequences. I don't think characters need too many guaranteed options.

 

[Blank Mauser]

I thought you jab canceled by crouching? Eh, at least thats how I pull it off.

 

[cooler1339]

I been hearing a lot of talk about codesets crashing. Is Kupo's safe for me to bring to a party tonight?

 

[KRSnakey]

Why does it seem like Falcon's knee connects easier? Is there a reason for this or am I imagining things?

 

[Dark Sonic]

Why does it seem like Falcon's knee connects easier? Is there a reason for this or am I imagining things?

Because you can combo into it. So they're not always airdodging/hitting you out of it anymore.

 

[KRSnakey]

Because you can combo into it. So they're not always airdodging/hitting you out of it anymore.

By god you're right!

 

[storm92]

I been hearing a lot of talk about codesets crashing. Is Kupo's safe for me to bring to a party tonight?

Yes, its fine.

 

[Osi]

What turned out to be the issue with his old code set also?

 

[kupo15]

Well, sorry kupo, but I know you used to be against shielding during a DD.

I was never fully against it. I was inquiring for more info about it and if it was needed at that point in time. I'm glad we have hitlag over shielding during the DD. Go back and yourll see....

Last I heard, there were still some freezes with your codeset Kupo, have those been ironed out? I'm finally sitting down to make a different code for when FFAing and 1v1ing.

I been hearing a lot of talk about codesets crashing. Is Kupo's safe for me to bring to a party tonight?

Yes, its fine.

This.

I don't know why people are coming up with these crashes. It should be fine and I was reassured by several people

 

[Osi]

I'm not doubting the crashes or anything, I'm updating from your old set atm, so I just was wondering if it was nailed down which code i need to replace.

 

[kupo15]

the problem code was spunits new merger so I used the old one

 

[SGX]

Kupo: I noticed that the OP now states Down grav 1.15, but your codeset still has 1.25

I'm just not sure which one you intended to have. I was hoping for 1.15, since I still feel like 1.25 causes further imbalance to recoveries. (Specifically those with not so great recoveries to begin with)

 

[Almas]

Post the old one, please.

 

[kupo15]

Kupo: I noticed that the OP now states Down grav 1.15, but your codeset still has 1.25

I'm just not sure which one you intended to have. I was hoping for 1.15, since I still feel like 1.25 causes further imbalance to recoveries. (Specifically those with not so great recoveries to begin with)

I think it is 1.25 intended but I'm not sure on gravity yet. I'll be keeping this for the moment until new codes come out. Who recoveries specifically?

Post the old one, please.

Old what?

 

[Almas]

Spunits codes. Which are crash free. So that I can tweak them for my own, sinister means.