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COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

Revven

FrankerZ
Joined
Apr 27, 2006
Messages
7,550
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
Just so you know... Its never gonna happen on a wide scale. I am not modding my Wii and I like it just the way it is.
I've said this countless times, Brawl+ isn't overtaking Brawl, they would remain separate from each other. Brawl+ would have its own tournaments and Brawl would still have its own tournaments as well. THIS IS OF COURSE ONLY IF IT TAKES OFF.

I could care less about what one person thinks, tbh. Brawl+ is already becoming popular and rather "known", one person isn't convincing me Brawl+ can't have its own tournaments.
 

Archangel

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
6,453
Location
Wilmington, Delaware
NNID
combat22386
I've said this countless times, Brawl+ isn't overtaking Brawl, they would remain separate from each other. Brawl+ would have its own tournaments and Brawl would still have its own tournaments as well. THIS IS OF COURSE ONLY IF IT TAKES OFF.

I could care less about what one person thinks, tbh. Brawl+ is already becoming popular and rather "known", one person isn't convincing me Brawl+ can't have its own tournaments.
agreed. I think if nothing else the absence of trip and FAIL will bring people over. Btw is it possible to hack the MK Cape? I think they can if they can take out other glitches like the triple jumps.
 

Revven

FrankerZ
Joined
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Messages
7,550
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
Btw is it possible to hack the MK Cape? I think they can if they can take out other glitches like the triple jumps.
What's the point in that when we're just gonna ban it anyway like the SBR already have for vanilla Brawl? It'd be a waste of lines, tbh, which we have only so much of.
 

Finns7

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 1, 2008
Messages
896
No Stale Moves
02FC0988 00130000

Stale Move values (spunit363) **BETA

06FC0988 00000028
3D4CCCCD 3DCCCCCD
3DB851EC 3DA3D70A
3D8F5C29 3D75C28F
3D4CCCCD 3D23D70A
3CF5C28F 3CA3D70A

Im kinda slow at this....what do I put in the first one (02FC0988 00130000) or the whole thing?
 

Almas

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
1,588
It's easiest just to do the first two lines:

No Stale Moves
02FC0988 00130000

The other code is still in the tweaking, but allows for more customizability (for example, you could make it so that if you use the same move twice in row it does 0% knockback/damage, but otherwise there are no ill effects for stale moving).
 

CT Chia

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Sep 4, 2007
Messages
24,416
Location
Philadelphia
those physics changes yummynbeefy wanted are done by increasing the gravity. thats why i do it. additionally, it balances out some characters (excpet for making MK bannable lol). for instance, GaW's recovery isn't quite as good as it doesn't go up as high, but he deserves to be nerfed a tad considering how amazing he is in every other way so it makes it more balanced.
 

storm92

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
844
Location
SoCal
I just played the most fun game of Brawl+ ever.

I used:
ALC
Hitstun 11.75%
Lagless Edges
Dash Cancel
Faster Fall (whatever value was recommended, can't remember)
Faster Characters overall (3F900000)
No Stale Moves

All I can say is wow. The games were 4 stock, Melee length or shorter, and just moved so fast and was amazingly fun to play.
Try that set out, I know people aren't using Faster Chars, and I hadn't until right now, but wow. So much fun.
 

Revven

FrankerZ
Joined
Apr 27, 2006
Messages
7,550
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
I just played the most fun game of Brawl+ ever.

I used:
ALC
Hitstun 11.75%
Lagless Edges
Dash Cancel
Faster Fall (whatever value was recommended, can't remember)
Faster Characters overall (3F900000)
No Stale Moves

All I can say is wow. The games were 4 stock, Melee length or shorter, and just moved so fast and was amazingly fun to play.
Try that set out, I know people aren't using Faster Chars, and I hadn't until right now, but wow. So much fun.
Only reason why people aren't using the Character Speed Modifier is because it has bugs with some characters (Fox/Falco, and Ganondorf's forward B).
 

Me_Aludes

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 9, 2008
Messages
144
ALC
Hitstun 11,5%
MAD
Increased Downwards gravity 1.35%
No Tripping
Independent Pokemon
Dash Cancel
Neutral Releases [Muba's]

This is my Brawl + for now. Dash Cancel is not really important, also I'm not sure about the Downwards gravity/Hitstun values, they may change.

Looking forward a Dash Dancing code and a Perfect Shield nerf. And stupid glitches fixes, of course. Adding the ability to DI weak hits and no invincibility frames when regrabbing a ledge would be also nice (to KILL planking). Then Brawl+ will be complete.

There's still a problem: MK. He is easily the best char, and u-air spam into upB ***** anyone -.-'

But now Brawl is fun :D
 

storm92

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
844
Location
SoCal
Hm, I'm not sure if its the Gravity Mod code or what, but I could literally cancel Ganon's Down B and I'd float for half a second then start to fall.
Even with no jumps, I could cancel it.
It might be the Char Speed buff code though.

@Falco400- Yeah, I noticed a few. Any way we could fix them you think? Because it speeds up the game sooo much.
 

Revven

FrankerZ
Joined
Apr 27, 2006
Messages
7,550
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
Hm, I'm not sure if its the Gravity Mod code or what, but I could literally cancel Ganon's Down B and I'd float for half a second then start to fall.
Even with no jumps, I could cancel it.
It might be the Char Speed buff code though.

@Falco400- Yeah, I noticed a few. Any way we could fix them you think? Because it speeds up the game sooo much.
Yeah, they could be fixed easily, just.... nobody has yet. And the Ganondorf thing you're talking about is in fact the character speed modifier, it's one of the glitches. Do a Usmash after a run with Fox, you'll notice a BIG glitch with that, it's kinda like Manchu's/Longchu's Side B.
 

storm92

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
844
Location
SoCal
Yeah, they could be fixed easily, just.... nobody has yet. And the Ganondorf thing you're talking about is in fact the character speed modifier, it's one of the glitches. Do a Usmash after a run with Fox, you'll notice a BIG glitch with that, it's kinda like Manchu's/Longchu's Side B.
Got it, there was a few with Sheik/Zelda as well where she kind of just...teleported. She would be walking forwards then would disappear and appear suddenly where she started.
 

Archangel

Smash Hero
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Dec 4, 2008
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Wilmington, Delaware
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combat22386
What's the point in that when we're just gonna ban it anyway like the SBR already have for vanilla Brawl? It'd be a waste of lines, tbh, which we have only so much of.
Banning it from official tourneys is great and all but I really need a code for it because I play against 3 people who can do it and they just can't seem to stop themselves. I wouldn't mind having it.
 

cobaltblue

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
455
I just played.

ALC
Hitstun 11.75%
Lagless Edges
Dash Cancel
Faster Fall (1.35)

Used Zsamus, Samus, and Sonic against lvl 9 cpus (so crap DI).

Zsmaus: My god she is pure beastly. I know a lot of it has to do with the fact the com doesn't DI well but even compared to Vbrawl she is just nasty. I was able to easily combo dashes into dsmashes and uairs into up b for a straight up meteor smash.

Samus: Not much difference I noticed but she is like my 3rd main.

Sonic: Had a fun time taking advantage of the cpu by running back and forth chaining dash attacks. Fastfall indirectly helps him alot simply due to the fact he has such an awesome recovery and gimp game going.

Overall I can't wait to try these guys tomorrow with my buds using this system. Seeing zsamus in action imo shows that there is a need for a decay code of some sort.
 

kupo15

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
7,002
Location
Playing Melee
I just played.

ALC
Hitstun 11.75%
Lagless Edges
Dash Cancel
Faster Fall (1.35)

Used Zsamus, Samus, and Sonic against lvl 9 cpus (so crap DI).

Zsmaus: My god she is pure beastly. I know a lot of it has to do with the fact the com doesn't DI well but even compared to Vbrawl she is just nasty. I was able to easily combo dashes into dsmashes and uairs into up b for a straight up meteor smash.

Samus: Not much difference I noticed but she is like my 3rd main.

Sonic: Had a fun time taking advantage of the cpu by running back and forth chaining dash attacks. Fastfall indirectly helps him alot simply due to the fact he has such an awesome recovery and gimp game going.

Overall I can't wait to try these guys tomorrow with my buds using this system. Seeing zsamus in action imo shows that there is a need for a decay code of some sort.
If your going to use faster falling, i think you should use a lower hitstun value.

Im thinking instead of removing the kb and keeping the damage, maybe we should keep the decay system but make it less potent like what 64 did
 

SGX

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 10, 2007
Messages
232
Yeah, 11.75% and 1.35% is way too much.

Right now I'm down to 11% hitstun and 1.25 fall rate, and so far it feels really good. I'd like to see what other people think about this combination. Give it a try please.

I honestly think the pros of no-stale moves outweigh the cons of it. The decay system hinders some characters a lot more than others. I think we should give this code a fair shot to see if it has any heavy negative effects on overall gameplay before we decide to scrap it/modify it.
 

Shell

Flute-Fox Only
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
2,042
So do I understand this correctly?

Let's take a hypothetical move with a base damage of 10%.

Fresh is 10.5%
Second 9%
Third 8 %

Then 7, 6, 5, 4, 3
 

matt4300

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Messages
821
Location
USA-AL
So do I understand this correctly?

Let's take a hypothetical move with a base damage of 10%.

Fresh is 10.5%
Second 9%
Third 8 %

Then 7, 6, 5, 4, 3
@_@ that would be so cool if you could do that like a utilt spam would do like nothing eventually. That and if you used the same 3 moves over and over you would never kill anyone... this sounds awsome if you can do it
 

Shell

Flute-Fox Only
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
2,042
Ahhh, So for 10% base it would be 10.5, 9, 8.1, 7.6, 7, 6.5, 6.1, 5.8, 5.6, 5.5.

What do people think would be a more reasonable curve? I'd like to preserve the strategy of keeping a killing move fresh while still minimizing tilt-spam.

Maybe something like,

10.5 9 8.6 8.3 8.1 8.0 8.0 8.0 8.0 8.0 8.0

Just throwin' it out there.

Edit: this would just be for knockback. Damage ideally would have a much steeper decline.
 

matt4300

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Messages
821
Location
USA-AL
Ahhh, So for 10% base it would be 10.5, 9, 8.1, 7.6, 7, 6.5, 6.1, 5.8, 5.6, 5.5.

What do people think would be a more reasonable curve? I'd like to preserve the strategy of keeping a killing move fresh while still minimizing tilt-spam.

Maybe something like,

10.5 9 8.6 8.3 8.1 8.0 8.0 8.0 8.0 8.0 8.0

Just throwin' it out there.

Edit: this would just be for knockback. Damage would have a much steeper decline.

yeh i really like this curve better. if you just used the same move more than 3 times you should just stop doing damage lol. this would stop all froms of tilt lock from being cheap and the triple uairs and chain grabs... but really you need some punishment for doing the same move more than 3 times
 

kupo15

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
7,002
Location
Playing Melee
Imagine, you could make the curve be the more you spam the move, the stronger it becomes. Its can also remove the utilt spam. Or you can make the 4th hit spike up to be more powerful than the rest, then go down and have another spike. keep in mind these trends can be for fun.

I am going to test (leaving the fresh and 100% kbs the same) every one after the 100% kb be cut in half this way we have the same exact decay trend to a lesser degree. I think this would idea would be more widely accepted
 

matt4300

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Messages
821
Location
USA-AL
Imagine, you could make the curve be the more you spam the move, the stronger it becomes. Its can also remove the utilt spam. Or you can make the 4th hit spike up to be more powerful than the rest, then go down and have another spike. keep in mind these trends can be for fun.

I am going to test (leaving the fresh and 100% kbs the same) every one after the 100% kb be cut in half this way we have the same exact decay trend to a lesser degree. I think this would idea would be more widely accepted
sooo in the new color coded post... what do i use? do i use that one line or the new colored ones...?

EDIT: oh and in the first post dont we already have faster fast falls with the awsome downwards gravity code?

So you're proposing:
10.5 9.5 9.1 8.8 8.6 8.5 8.5 8.5 ......
ok that would be a tad rediculous

oh god **** it i read it wrong agin....
 

Shell

Flute-Fox Only
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
2,042
So you're proposing:

10.5 -- 9.5 -- 9.1 -- 8.8 -- 8.6 -- 8.5 -- 8.5 -- 8.5 ......
 

kupo15

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
7,002
Location
Playing Melee
I am proposing

fresh (105%) normal hit 100% (basically don't touch the first two lines)

.95--.9--.85--.8--.75--.7--.65......

Im cutting them in half

To code this, move the decimal point over once and use the hex converter for each value.

The original decay system is

fresh, normal, .9--.8--.7--.6....

sooo in the new color coded post... what do i use? do i use that one line or the new colored ones...?

EDIT: oh and in the first post dont we already have faster fast falls with the awsome downwards gravity code?

So you're proposing:
10.5 9.5 9.1 8.8 8.6 8.5 8.5 8.5 ......
ok that would be a tad rediculous
The color coded section tells you what the code is. The current code is the default. Notice if you convert .09 you get the first block of code on the third line


Ill post the code I am going to test
 

matt4300

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Messages
821
Location
USA-AL
ok well im going to hold of using this until we get a general area of decay.. like the 10 to 12.5 hit stun and the 1.25 to 1.4 fall speed and such
 

kupo15

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
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Playing Melee
If that's the case, then it seems like the "normal" damage version of the move is left out, right? Because if using that example, the move does 10%...

10.5
9
8.1

You never actually get the 10%. Is that correct?
According to the thread, that is correct. Does this mean I have to modify the second value (after fresh?)
 

Magus420

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 13, 2003
Messages
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Location
Close to Trenton, NJ Posts: 4,071

New Codes to test

Code:
No Stale Moves 1 line (spunit262) 
02FC0988 00130000

**Removes both knockback and damage decay.  
[COLOR=Yellow]
____________________________________________________[/COLOR]
Stale Move Ratio Modifier 6 lines  (spunit262) 
[COLOR=White]
[/COLOR] [COLOR=White]06FC0988 [/COLOR][COLOR=White]00000028 
[/COLOR] [COLOR=White]3D4CCCCD [/COLOR][COLOR=White]3DCCCCCD[/COLOR][COLOR=White]
[/COLOR] [COLOR=White]3DB851EC [/COLOR][COLOR=White]3DA3D70A[/COLOR][COLOR=White]
[/COLOR] [COLOR=White]3D8F5C29 [/COLOR][COLOR=White]3D75C28F[/COLOR][COLOR=White]
[/COLOR] [COLOR=White]3D4CCCCD [/COLOR][COLOR=White]3D23D70A[/COLOR][COLOR=White]
[/COLOR] [COLOR=White]3CF5C28F [/COLOR][COLOR=White]3CA3D70A[/COLOR][COLOR=Blue]
[COLOR=Yellow][COLOR=White]
***Individually mods stale move values[/COLOR]
__________________________________________________[/COLOR]
[/COLOR]Stale Move Ratio Modifier (EXPLANATION)

[COLOR=Red]06FC0988 [/COLOR][COLOR=Blue]00000028 [/COLOR]Code initiation line (must be here)
[COLOR=Red][COLOR=Lime]fresh [/COLOR]3D4CCCCD[/COLOR] [COLOR=Blue][SIZE=1][COLOR=Lime]1[/COLOR][/SIZE] 3DCCCCCD[COLOR=White]---- [/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=Red]5%(Fresh bonus when not in queue)[/COLOR], [COLOR=Blue]0.1[/COLOR]
[COLOR=Red][COLOR=Lime]2[/COLOR] 3DB851EC [COLOR=Lime]3 [/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=Blue]3DA3D70A[/COLOR][COLOR=Red] [COLOR=White]---- [/COLOR]0.09[/COLOR], [COLOR=Blue]0.08[/COLOR]
[COLOR=Red][COLOR=Lime]4[/COLOR] 3D8F5C29 [/COLOR][COLOR=Blue][COLOR=Lime]5[/COLOR] 3D75C28F[COLOR=White]----- [/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=Red]0.07[/COLOR], [COLOR=Blue]0.06[/COLOR]
[COLOR=Red][COLOR=Lime]6[/COLOR] 3D4CCCCD [/COLOR][COLOR=Blue][COLOR=Lime]7[/COLOR] 3D23D70A[COLOR=White]----- [/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=Red]0.05[/COLOR],[COLOR=Blue] 0.04[/COLOR]
[COLOR=Red][COLOR=Lime]8[/COLOR] 3CF5C28F [/COLOR][COLOR=Blue][COLOR=Lime]9[/COLOR] 3CA3D70A [/COLOR][COLOR=Red][COLOR=White]----[/COLOR]0.03[/COLOR],[COLOR=Blue] 0.02[/COLOR]

[COLOR=Lime]Green[/COLOR]=number of times used consecutively 

So stale moves are:
Fresh (105%), 100%, 90%, 80%....20%

To make your own values use this
[URL="http://babbage.cs.qc.edu/IEEE-754/Decimal.html"][SIZE=4][B]
Hex converter[/B][/SIZE][/URL]

example:
10%=.1=[COLOR=Blue]3DCCCCCD[/COLOR]
[COLOR=Yellow][B]
DO NOT EXCEED A FLOAT VALUE OF 0.1[/B][/COLOR]
I don't think you're understanding it correctly. I'm fairly certain that '4' does not mean when it's used 4 times in a row then that number x10 is the multiplier. Those are the reductions on the multiplier for that slot in the stale moves list, which has 9 slots. If the stale moves list looks like this:

1) U-Tilt (Most Recent)
2) U-Tilt
3) U-Tilt
4) F-Air
5) Jab
6) F-Smash
7) U-Tilt
8) F-Air
9) F-Air (Least Recent)

The stale multiplier for an U-Tilt with the default stale values will be 0.69

U-Tilt occupies Slots 1, 2, 3, 7
(1.00 - 0.10 - 0.09 - 0.08 - 0.04) = 0.69


F-Air would be 0.88

F-Air occupies Slots 4, 8, 9
(1.00 - 0.07 - 0.03 - 0.02) = 0.88



If you want to reduce the stale effect by half I'm pretty sure it'd be either:

Code:
Half & Rounded down for smaller reductions on slots 2, 4, 6, 8

F 3D4CCCCD 1 3D4CCCCD ---- +0.05, -0.05
2 3D23D70A 3 3D23D70A ---- -0.04, -0.04
4 3CF5C28F 5 3CF5C28F ---- -0.03, -0.03
6 3CA3D70A 7 3CA3D70A ---- -0.02, -0.02
8 3C23D70A 9 3C23D70A ---- -0.01, -0.01

OR

Half & Rounded up for greater reductions on slots 2, 4, 6, 8

F 3D4CCCCD 1 3D4CCCCD ---- +0.05, -0.05
2 3D4CCCCD 3 3D23D70A ---- -0.05, -0.04
4 3D23D70A 5 3CF5C28F ---- -0.04, -0.03
6 3CF5C28F 7 3CA3D70A ---- -0.03, -0.02
8 3CA3D70A 9 3C23D70A ---- -0.02, -0.01

OR

Half & Not rounded on slots 2, 4, 6, 8 (Dunno if this would work)

F 3D4CCCCD 1 3D4CCCCD ---- +0.050, -0.050
2 3D3851EC 3 3D23D70A ---- -0.045, -0.040
4 3D0F5C29 5 3CF5C28F ---- -0.035, -0.030
6 3CCCCCCD 7 3CA3D70A ---- -0.025, -0.020
8 3C75C28F 9 3C23D70A ---- -0.015, -0.010
 

kupo15

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
7,002
Location
Playing Melee
Oh I see. Thanks for that. I changed the green text key. So question, how would I make a half power code for all slots and not just those four that do not include the fresh or the one after fresh? Is this correct? keep in mind that the OP has brawls default stale system and that was c/p from spunits pm

Half stale system (brawl's natural stale system)

06FC0988 00000028
3D4CCCCD 3DCCCCCD
3DC28F5C 3DB851EC
3DAE147B 3DA3D70A
3D99999A 3D8F5C29
3D851EB8 3D75C28F

Float points
----- ----
----- ---
.095 .09
.085 .08
.075 .07
.065 .06

The first two lines are untouched

So it goes:

Fresh (105%)---Normal (100%)---95%---90%----85%---ect----60%
 

ColinJF

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Messages
712
To address one point of confusion: under normal conditions, in versus mode, for moves affected by stale move decay, the stale move multiplier is never 1.
 

Magus420

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 13, 2003
Messages
4,541
Location
Close to Trenton, NJ Posts: 4,071
Oh I see. Thanks for that. I changed the green text key. So question, how would I make a half power code for all slots and not just those four that do not include the fresh or the one after fresh? Is this correct? keep in mind that the OP has brawls default stale system and that was c/p from spunits pm
I don't think you do see. I believe your code actually makes the effect of stale moves even STRONGER. The code I posted already was the half effect of stale moves you were talking about. Using your code and the example list I used before:

1) U-Tilt (Most Recent)
2) U-Tilt
3) U-Tilt
4) F-Air
5) Jab
6) F-Smash
7) U-Tilt
8) F-Air
9) F-Air (Least Recent)



The stale multiplier for an U-Tilt with your stale values will be 0.645 (default was 0.690)

U-Tilt occupies Slots 1, 2, 3, 7
(1.000 - 0.100 - 0.095 - 0.090 - 0.070) = 0.645


F-Air would be 0.790 (default was 0.880)

F-Air occupies Slots 4, 8, 9
(1.000 - 0.085 - 0.065 - 0.060) = 0.790
 

kupo15

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
7,002
Location
Playing Melee
To address one point of confusion: in versus mode, for moves affected by stale move decay, the stale move multiplier is never 1.
So then I guess, my half power code is wrong? If so, thats cool...you learn..

Ooo really Magus? So are the codes you posted half power for all slots?
 
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