COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[Dan_X]

I'll likely take a stab at this tomorrow. I have some ideas

 

[kupo15]

You're mistaken about this.

In Melee, characters always retained the speed from their dash when they first jumped. However, it worked in Melee so that you had a certain amount of aerial resistance, which very soon slowed you down to your usual maximum horizontal aerial speed. This effect is very visible with Melee Link or Falco while SHFFLing: you can see them take off with the same momentum but then quickly decelerate. With Captain Falcon, though, for example, he had very low resistance and so wasn't slowed down significantly, which was why he could cover such huge horizontal distances even in short hops. Notice that Melee Fox, who runs almost as fast, cannot jump nearly as far as Captain Falcon, due to his high aerial resistance.

You're forgetting that making characters take off with their running momentum doesn't magically remove their maximum horizontal air velocity. If MK's dash was faster than his max airspeed then he would either:
a) If Brawl worked like Melee where there is a certain level of aerial resistance, MK would quickly decelerate to his usual maximum airspeed.
b) If Brawl arbitrarily limits your speed (as I think it does, the physics system being so generally awful) then MK would simply take off at maximum aerial velocity, being prevented from going any faster.

I hold that maximum horizontal airspeeds should be increased, and that you should retain the momentum from your dash. Jigglypuff (who, I think moves faster in the air than while dashing) would soon accelerate to maximum aerial speed (so (s)he wouldn't be nerfed as has been suggested), and everyone would feel much smoother to control. Brawl+ characters still feel unnacceptably stiff and awkward in the air without this hack.

I just don't want MK or any character to fly through the air as fast as their run speed the WHOLE time! This is the image I get when ppl say they want a hack so that you keep your running momentum. And Falco and CF were the exceptions. I know it wasn't that noticable with Marth. So I have no clue about how this will work or what happens now. Do you keep your run momentum then air resistance kicks in to slow you down?

Well if that's how it worked then alright, just GET ER DUN. And I don't think fast fall before jump apex (pretty sure it was always like this anyways for every Smash game?) is necessary, just make short hops shorter and you won't need it.

I really don't think FF before the apex is necessary either. If you look at 64, the short hops were big but the FF was really fast. I just finished playing 4 hours of 64

OH! Kupo, you should replace the gravity modifiers for the new one that allows you to modify upwards/downwards gravity with the appropriate values to plug in for testing. Also, make a note that they can just use downward gravity, they wouldn't need both lines (just the one for downward gravity).

Honestly, modifying upwards/downwards gravity code > Gravity modifier. So, edit yer post(s).

Can you post this code? I believe there are three related codes flying around here.

 

[Revven]

Can you post this code? I believe there are three related codes flying around here.

Upwards/Downwards Gravity Modifier (paprika_killer original, Almas port NTSC-U)
04641520 XXXXXXXX
04641524 YYYYYYYY

XXXX upwards, YYYYY downwards. You don't need both, you can use each one separately, it'll just mean the other won will be the default gravity.

[url=http://babbage.cs.qc.edu/IEEE-754/Decimal.html]Use to calculate floating points[/url]

[u]Some Floating Points for Testing[/u]
1.05: 3F866666
1.10: 3F8CCCCD
1.15: 3F933333
1.25: 3FA00000
1.30: 3FA66666
1.35: 3FACCCCD

Test with either upwards or downwards, but, you mostly want downwards because that is fallspeed and thus, does not nerf recoveries or jumps.

 

[MuBa]

I've been testing that fall speed code on 12.5% (3F900000) and I like it a lot.

 

[SGX]

Shorter short hops code would be easy if SH was just a certain (global) % of each character's regular jump.

Now, while I like the new faster falling code...would it be possible to increase the speed of the jumps themselves? i.e. the character has the same jump height, they just reach the apex of their jump faster.

 

[Finns7]

It says error I need to put something at the xxxx what is the number for brawls default for x

 

[Revven]

It says error I need to put something at the xxxx what is the number for brawls default for x

Just don't use the first line and that's your default. Just put in the second line alone, that's all you need.

 

[Finns7]

Just don't use the first line and that's your default. Just put in the second line alone, that's all you need.

so dont put in anything for x just leave it be

04641520 XXXXXXXX
04641524 3F900000

this what im using should i delete x or just export it (brings up the error message)

 

[Me_Aludes]

so dont put in anything for x just leave it be

04641520 XXXXXXXX
04641524 3F900000

this what im using should i delete x or just export it (brings up the error message)

No. Delete it all. Just use

04641524 3F900000

And that should work.

If isn't working, Brawl's default is 3F800000 (1 in decimal).

 

[Dan_X]

So this code only effect fall speed and nothing else? It won't nerf vertical KOs/ recovers, and jump height?

 

[leafgreen386]

So this code only effects fall speed and nothing else? It won't nerf vertical KOs/ recovers, and jump height?

Upward gravity nerfs jumps and upBs, so we're leaving that alone no matter what. Downward gravity affects not only falling after your jump force has been extinguished, but it also nerfs vertical knockback - the game still considers you "falling" even if you're hit upward.

 

[Dan_X]

Upward gravity nerfs jumps and upBs, so we're leaving that alone no matter what. Downward gravity affects not only falling after your jump force has been extinguished, but it also nerfs vertical knockback - the game still considers you "falling" even if you're hit upward.

So isn't this just a regular gravity code then if it nerfs vertical KOs? Is it worth nerfing vertical KO?

 

[matt4300]

So isn't this just a regular gravity code then if it nerfs vertical KOs? Is it worth nerfing vertical KO?

no. As he said it doesnt effect jump height or upbs. wich to me the huge deal breaking problem with the regular gravity codes. The vertical KO nerfing is really not that big a deal. It was alittle imba to begin with and i think its just perfect now, but of couse this is all just my opinion i dont know what everyone eles thinks, though i do know that no one has complaind about this code yet... that i know of

 

[Osi]

I played all friday/saturday on 1.05 upwards and 1.25 downwards. I really liked it a lot. It sure made me SD a ton on falcon though lol. You drop like a rock with downwards on finally. I didn't notice the upward gimp too much, it mostly felt like a kill took 9-16% more to kill vertically than before. I did just fine on fox/jiggly with it. It makes the game feel much faster.

 

[zxeon]

What's the upward gravity on there for?

 

[Osi]

It felt a bit off on the normal setting once we put the downward on. So we tried it with 1.05 upward and it did feel a little better.

 

[Dan_X]

so what are the ideal values that i should test for both down and up? I can't test it right now, but I want to get my card ready for when I can.

 

[leafgreen386]

Just leave upward the same. Any increase at all starts impacting AC aerials. Just test out falling grav in the range of 1.15-1.3

 

[Osi]

I'd go with 1.25% down right now, and maybe a upward of 1.05 if you like it.

 

[Flamingo]

Not to be rude... But all you people trying to recreate Brawl like Melee... Will you be satisfied if you get it exactly like melee? Or will it still "suck" or whatever due to the nerfing of the characters from the last game?

 

[Heavyarms2050]

Not to be rude... But all you people trying to recreate Brawl like Melee... Will you be satisfied if you get it exactly like melee? Or will it still "suck" or whatever due to the nerfing of the characters from the last game?

so far the only character that is nerf that i can think of is yoshi because of melee air dodge code

 

[Revven]

Not to be rude... But all you people trying to recreate Brawl like Melee...

I stopped reading there.

We're not making Brawl be like Melee. We're taking the finest things of Smash that were removed from Brawl that came from both 64 and Melee and putting them back in PLUS our own spin on the game. Hence why it is called Brawl+, we're adding to it. If you can't acknowledge that, then, you shouldn't be posting here. People have said the same things and it's really annoying to correct them.

Also, EVERYBODY LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST, IT'S ABOUT BRAWL+! It just started nao!

 

[Dan_X]

Also, EVERYBODY LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST, IT'S ABOUT BRAWL+! It just started nao!

How do I find this "podcast" you speak of?

 

[zxeon]

Where do I get the SBR podcast? All I can find is SMYN.

 

[Heavyarms2050]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=201664

 

[Dan_X]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=201664

Thanks man! I'm listening...

is this the 12.5% value?

1.25: 3FA00000

or is it this?

12.5% (3F900000)

The difference is the "A" and the "9". I've seen both tossed around, and am not sure which one is the accurate 12.5%?

 

[Kais3000]

It's not a percentage at all (neither is the hitstun code). You want 1.25.

Many players prefer increased gravity overall, as it detracts from the floatiness of the game. Autocancels can be seen as a worthy cost. As I recall when the first dash cancel code came out, complaints about the removal of many of Squirtle's AT's were replied with "who cares?". Why does the same answer not apply when it refers to Captain Falcon and Ganondorf?

 

[Starscream]

Yeah, don't bother with the % notation for gravity, it just gets confusing. It's unnecessary since the standard gravity is 1.0 whereas the standard hitstun was something like 0.4.

 

[SGX]

Not to be rude... But all you people trying to recreate Brawl like Melee... Will you be satisfied if you get it exactly like melee? Or will it still "suck" or whatever due to the nerfing of the characters from the last game?

No, we're making Brawl into something actually enjoyable to play.

Edit: Got some friends over right now. I'll be testing 1.01 up and 1.3-1.35 down with 11% hitstun tonight. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

 

[kupo15]

New code by spunit woot!

Stale Move values (spunit)
06FC0988 00000028
3D4CCCCD 3DCCCCCD
3DB851EC 3DA3D70A
3D8F5C29 3D75C28F
3D4CCCCD 3D23D70A
3CF5C28F 3CA3D70A

The first value is .05 which is added when the move is fresh, the other 9 are the values for the queue (.1,.09,.08,...).

No Stale Moves
02FC0988 00130000

This writes a bunch of 0s setting all ten values to 0.0 (floating point zero = 00000000)

 

[Dan_X]

I'd go with 1.25% down right now, and maybe a upward of 1.05 if you like it.

what does 1.05 upward do? Give you more of a jump-- lessening the grav? I just added the downward code to my SD card.. and will test it asap.

I entered this as my code...

04641524 3F900000

That's correct, right?

New code by spunit woot!

Omg Kupo, too good. I don't even know what to do with this one...

Do I just copy the entire thing? I don't need to insert my own numbers like hitstun?

So getting rid of stale moves makes it so that the move doesn't weaken with repetitive use? Or atleast not as fast as it originally did? How does this code work?

 

[kupo15]

I really don't know what to do lol. Im going to try that one line code first

 

[Revven]

I really don't know what to do lol. Im going to try that one line code first

Ask himmmm how to use it!!!!! D:

 

[cAm8ooo]

Kupo, are you listening to the SBR podcast by chance?

 

[spunit262]

The one liner is what you want. It make the game give you a 0% boost for fresh moves and a 0% penalty for stale moves. The other one has the defaults in it (5% boost for fresh moves and a 10%, 9%, 8%, 7%, 6%, 5%, 4%, 3%, 2% penalty for stale moves depending on where it is in the queue).

 

[kupo15]

I am but I missed like the most of it since its my 21st b day I did hear them say that MAD will turn ppl off to brawl+ though :D

One thing I noticed about the decay, the damage does not decay :\

Spunit, can you keep the damage decay but remove the move decay if that makes sense? lol The only penalty you should get from stale is the damage decay.

Thanks for your help spunit! XD

And those other codes, Do I just use that one liner instead?

 

[Revven]

I am but I missed like the most of it since its my 21st b day I did hear them say that MAD will turn ppl off to brawl+ though :D

Guess you'll have to wait for the download then to hear the first hour and a half of it. It was UBER good though, I enjoyed it, there were a few errors here and there though... (like, Gecko OS VS. Ocarina, they didn't really name the BIG differences like SD Card usage and the date fixedness).

 

[cAm8ooo]

Congrats on ur 21st

Anyways, yea it was pretty good. Less organized then the last one and they left out a few things but overall it was pretty good. They questioned the difference with 11.75 and 12 though, which i only play 11.75 so i dont really know the difference either.

Just waiting for the shield stun code

 

[spunit262]

I am but I missed like the most of it since its my 21st b day I did hear them say that MAD will turn ppl off to brawl+ though :D

One thing I noticed about the decay, the damage does not decay :\

Spunit, can you keep the damage decay but remove the move decay if that makes sense? lol The only penalty you should get from stale is the damage decay.

Thanks for your help spunit! XD

And those other codes, Do I just use that one liner instead?

You mean have the damage decay but not the knockback? Maybe.

The one liner is equivalent to the other one with all zeros plugged in

06FC0988 00000028
00000000 00000000
00000000 00000000
00000000 00000000
00000000 00000000
00000000 00000000

To understand what each value does you need to read that topic you sent me.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=210557

 

[kupo15]

Guess you'll have to wait for the download then to hear the first hour and a half of it. It was UBER good though, I enjoyed it, there were a few errors here and there though... (like, Gecko OS VS. Ocarina, they didn't really name the BIG differences like SD Card usage and the date fixedness).

Yea i cant wait for the link

You mean have the damage decay but not the knockback? Maybe.

Yes. We want to keep the damage decay but not the kb. Brawl added this special stale move system that we want removed.

lol funny how you refer me back to the link i sent you