COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[matt4300]

that was some **** good smyn v_v should have been there the whole time kupo. anyway whats this i hear of new codes? gotta go read...

oh.... a no STN code.. thats cool... i never had a problem with the stale moves it just makes it to wear you cant spam the same kill move over and over until it works ...

 

[kupo15]

that was some **** good smyn v_v should have been there the whole time kupo. anyway whats this i hear of new codes? gotta go read...

oh.... a no STN code.. thats cool... i never had a problem with the stale moves it just makes it to wear you cant spam the same kill move over and over until it works ...

Yea i wish i could. It was my 21st b day so i kinda couldn't :\ Ill be waiting for the download link though

With this move, the stupid utilt spam combos are reduced by a lot

 

[Osi]

Was a really good SMYN, and had a lot of reason for no MAD hehe. Mostly due to the fact it adds such a large new tech that everyone wanting to compete in it also at a brawl event would need to have a modded wii at home for practice.

They also sure sounded hesitant about mentioning it as a real tourney staple in the future. I think most of them view it as a funny little side thing than a actual new tourney scene. It made me feel a little skeptical also since those 5 have a impact on the smash community.

 

[kupo15]

Was a really good SMYN, and had a lot of reason for no MAD hehe. Mostly due to the fact it adds such a large new tech that everyone wanting to compete in it also at a brawl event would need to have a modded wii at home for practice.

They also sure sounded hesitant about mentioning it as a real tourney staple in the future. I think most of them view it as a funny little side thing than a actual new tourney scene. It made me feel a little skeptical also since those 5 have a impact on the smash community.

The big thing I caught in the last 30 mins was that MAD makes it too different and will most likely turn people off since they are not used to it. And we need these ppl to like brawl+ to make it successful which is why we need it to stay as close to brawl as possible while keeping it competitive.

 

[cAm8ooo]

The big thing I caught in the last 30 mins was that MAD makes it too different and will most likely turn people off since they are not used to it. And we need these ppl to like brawl+ to make it successful which is why we need it to stay as close to brawl as possible while keeping it competitive.

I was all for MAD. But today i played a lot without it and i learned i didn't mind it at all. So im good with whatever the decision is. If it wasn't such a big code i would want it more but it just doesn't seem to be worth the price. A hybrid of the two would be cool though.

Like they said. It did it's main purpose when it turned heads and brought more people into the brawl + community.

 

[Heavyarms2050]

does anybody have quick comments about the "no stale move" code yet?

 

[kupo15]

does anybody have quick comments about the "no stale move" code yet?

Its training mode in vs brawl. Its a beta now because we want to keep the stale damage and not the stale knockback. Right now we have both.

I was all for MAD. But today i played a lot without it and i learned i didn't mind it at all. So im good with whatever the decision is. If it wasn't such a big code i would want it more but it just doesn't seem to be worth the price. A hybrid of the two would be cool though.

Like they said. It did it's main purpose when it turned heads and brought more people into the brawl + community.

Cool. Yea, the truth is, its not going to be appealing by the brawl crowd (we need them) and you really don't need it. Its just a preference thing that has some weird side effects

 

[matt4300]

the one line no smn isent working it freezes while loading.. im using that 1 line without all the zeros. should i use the one with zeros orrrr....

Also: dont know if finnz knows this one but its really a cool combo/combo starter with link: down B> full hop>air dodge> Zair > throw bomb> run attack>>> up tilt, up smash, sh neutral air, bair, fair ect... its really sweet kinda like samuses zair> charge shot its odd how when your holding a bomb if you air dodge first you can Zair with the bomb in hand.

 

[Shell]

Is the manual l cancel different that the old one? And is the speed code the same glitchy one we've been hearing about?

Not sure how I feel about the stale moves code yet.

 

[kupo15]

the one line no smn isent working it freezes while loading.. im using that 1 line without all the zeros. should i use the one with zeros orrrr....

Also: dont know if finnz knows this one but its really a cool combo/combo starter with link: down B> full hop>air dodge> Zair > throw bomb> run attack>>> up tilt, up smash, sh neutral air, bair, fair ect... its really sweet kinda like samuses zair> charge shot its odd how when your holding a bomb if you air dodge first you can Zair with the bomb in hand.

I rearranged the code. Do the first line of code you see

Is the manual l cancel different that the old one? And is the speed code the same glitchy one we've been hearing about?

Not sure how I feel about the stale moves code yet.

They are all the same as before.

We still need damage decay. What are you unsure about?

 

[Shell]

In regular Brawl, I thought that knockback decay was one of the few things that Brawl did right. Now that we have u-tilt (or f-tilt to d-tilt for sheik) spam combos with the added hitstun, you may be right that knockback decay should go. What does everyone else think?

 

[ColinJF]

Hey, I have a question for you guys. When you set the stale move values to all 0s, does knockback decay vanish as well? If it does vanish, knockback decay doesn't actually exist.

I don't have ocarina so this takes a lot more effort for me to test.

It would be good to have some confirmation that the values for knockback decay are separate though (or not).

 

[kupo15]

In regular Brawl, I thought that knockback decay was one of the few things that Brawl did right. Now that we have u-tilt (or f-tilt to d-tilt for sheik) spam combos with the added hitstun, you may be right that knockback decay should go. What does everyone else think?

I need to play some matches with this no decay system, but at least your not punished for using your moves. Cant wait until we have dam decay which will effect knockback. I also think we should tamper with different decay values. I don't think the decay system should be locked at 1 which is what it is now. I think it should be less than 1 maybe like .7 or .8

 

[ColinJF]

(never mind this post)

 

[SketchHurricane]

I'm also on the fence about 'no stale moves'. If it does indeed nerf up-tilt spam, I'm all for it. However, one of the things I liked about stale knockback was the penalty it put on spamming. You actually have to strategize your kill moves because giving a skilled player a second change can be very bad. It really puts a muzzle on characters like G&W who have such a spammable moveset. Really, any character with a particularly broken move will become very dangerous with no stale knockback (Snake comes to mind). Come to think of it, most of the top tier fall into this category...

Of course, I'm willing to put my claims to the test.

 

[kupo15]

I'm also on the fence about 'no stale moves'. If it does indeed nerf up-tilt spam, I'm all for it. However, one of the things I liked about stale knockback was the penalty it put on spamming. You actually have to strategize your kill moves because giving a skilled player a second change can be very bad. It really puts a muzzle on characters like G&W who have such a spammable moveset. Really, any character with a particularly broken move will become very dangerous with no stale knockback (Snake comes to mind). Come to think of it, most of the top tier fall into this category...

Of course, I'm willing to put my claims to the test.

I think the damage ratio should be used with this code. Maybe .7 or .8?

 

[ColinJF]

Sorry about the multiple posts, but I just checked out the first post, and apparently setting those stale move values to 0 actually makes knockback decay vanish as well. If this is the case, it would seem that knockback decay is not actually a separate phenomenon after all!

 

[kupo15]

Hey, I have a question for you guys. When you set the stale move values to all 0s, does knockback decay vanish as well? If it does vanish, knockback decay doesn't actually exist.

I don't have ocarina so this takes a lot more effort for me to test.

It would be good to have some confirmation that the values for knockback decay are separate though (or not).

Im not sure. I only used the one liner

Sorry about the multiple posts, but I just checked out the first post, and apparently setting those stale move values to 0 actually makes knockback decay vanish as well. If this is the case, it would seem that knockback decay is not actually a separate phenomenon after all!

Unless he coded it to include both. I asked spunit to try and modify the code so that it only affects the stale kb. We shall see if he can. I am confident it is an added feature

 

[Shell]

Having a very aggressive damage falloff and constant knockback could reduce tilt spam combos while keeping move spam under control.

But I'm just theory crafting. Let's get testing the new code!

 

[kupo15]

Having a very aggressive damage falloff and constant knockback could reduce tilt spam combos while keeping move spam under control.

But I'm just theory crafting. Let's get testing the new code!

I tried .9 dam ratio and CF couldn't even follow up with aerials after a poorly DIed dthrow, but then again, i think CF could only tech chase with that move. Ikes uncharged eruption didn't kill be at 156 either...I honestly don't know what to look for with the decay code. I hope spunit can give us dam decay

 

[Shell]

I'm confused. Each time the move is used the knockback decreases by 10% for your test?

 

[kupo15]

I'm confused. Each time the move is used the knockback decreases by 10% for your test?

No. The no decay makes vs mode act like training mode. Spunit will try to include the dam decay which should be there. I suggested using the damage ratio in the game to make up for constant powerful moves (i tested .9) which decreases the kb power of all moves by 10%.

I will take that suggestion back. Changing the damage ratio is too weird even at .9. The damage decay will help

 

[matt4300]

ive been wondering how are all of these new codes fairing online? do any of the new ones desync as fast or nearly as fast as MAD does? would be nice to know if playing online isent gone with all these new codes.

OMFG the speed modifier is ****ing amazing we NEED a fixed version i...i.. gahhh its wow.
and now im playing normal speed and i feel like im fighting in jello... is there any possibility PW can fix the speed without the glitchy-ness?

 

[kupo15]

For the decay code, Im banking on spunit being able to give us damage decay. If that is not possible, then I say we do not use the code. We need SOME sort of decay...

 

[MALCORE]

just curious if its possible... any way to make a code that gives ganon/captain falcon their second jump back after down b ?

 

[matt4300]

ok with the current no decay code i have tryed DIing a few chars utilts differnt ways to have the best result.. and im just going to skip the percents because the codes not finished, but so far from what i have found; fox is easily the gayest and has one of the best if not the best and it can still go on for like 3 or 4 hits even with good DI (and with the no dam decay is messed up lol you can get like 40 damge becuase each hit does a rediculous 10% XD) but most other people like mario link ect.. are much easyer to escape from. for some reason foxes is just gay in all respects damage, range, priority, speed,launch direction. and you can still combo after the homo-orgey of utilts as you all know, but atleast it nerfed some of the worse chars utilts right? >_>

 

[Dan_X]

Does any1 know where I can find the pod cast about Brawl+? I was only able to find the "Live feed" which was obviously no longer "live."

Also, whoa @ the numerous new codes. I'm skeptical of the stale moves code, even a fixed version with damage drop off. What's the point? Doesn't that take away from certain comboing because the knockback is constant? hmm.

Also, I never really thought about a speed modifier. What are the known bugs with this, and is this going to become a standard? I'm interested in such a code but not sold entirely on the idea. I think that Brawl is already sped up enough with the changes we've made, without literally speeding it up. I mean, sure it's not Melee fast.. but.. that's not a bad thing either.

Does the speed modifier in effect make it so one must remaster everything? Relearn all of the muscle memory? Say for example I have Falco's lasering down perfectly, and the ICs down... would I have to change my input drastically now?

I don't like the idea of a speed modifier if it messes with how characters play, and makes them drastically different from previous, especially with muscle memory in mind.

I still have yet to test the fast fall code. I will be doing so at 1.25. What do you guys think of fast falls? What do you think of the code?

 

[NinjaFoxX]

i think you should move the melee air dodge to beta codes because its far from perfect.
anyways when you guys are done be sure to post a vid.;

 

[Starscream]

Does any1 know where I can find the pod cast about Brawl+? I was only able to find the "Live feed" which was obviously no longer "live."

Also, whoa @ the numerous new codes. I'm skeptical of the stale moves code, even a fixed version with damage drop off. What's the point? Doesn't that take away from certain comboing because the knockback is constant? hmm.

Basically to remove lame tilt locks really. What stale knockback is actually doing is encouraging repeated use so it's working against it's purpose. Because knockback gets drastically reduced it becomes far easier to spam a tilt that already has low knockback and keep them trapped while accumulating huge damage. Fox's Utilt is a prime example of this. Having knockback not stale will allow you to escape from these locks quicker.

Also, I never really thought about a speed modifier. What are the known bugs with this, and is this going to become a standard? I'm interested in such a code but not sold entirely on the idea. I think that Brawl is already sped up enough with the changes we've made, without literally speeding it up. I mean, sure it's not Melee fast.. but.. that's not a bad thing either.

Does the speed modifier in effect make it so one must remaster everything? Relearn all of the muscle memory? Say for example I have Falco's lasering down perfectly, and the ICs down... would I have to change my input drastically now?

I don't like the idea of a speed modifier if it messes with how characters play, and makes them drastically different from previous, especially with muscle memory in mind.

Apparently Olimar crashes the game (haven't tested myself). Fox and Falco can't ledge jump. When using Side+B with Ganon you'll slide back a few steps. If you do an Up smash with Fox and later try to run you'll notice he kind of teleports back a few steps. I've noticed some weird discrepancies with the distance in Ganon's down+B. Some of the things I've found.

Basically the speed code makes the game more fun and require quicker reactions and inputs. If you like a faster game then you'll like the code. It's likely that you will need to adjust your timing on some techniques (SHDL is still a piece of cake though) but if you enjoy the quicker pace with the code then I think you'd be willing to make enough of a commitment to adjust your timing for such techniques. I don't use IC so I don't know how drastically (if at all) it affects their chain throws. It certainly makes Ganon feel a bit more like his former self while still staying the same speed in relation to the rest of the cast. But in no way is it a necessity to make Brawl+ more competitive. But it sure is nice.

I still have yet to test the fast fall code. I will be doing so at 1.25. What do you guys think of fast falls? What do you think of the code?

It's great. Be aware that it will nerf the height of horizontal attacks no matter what unless you use a damage ratio modifier or a vertical knockback code to offset the gravity effects is found. However, it does not nerf jump heights or Up+Bs at all unless you use the upward gravity modifer. I personally recommend 1.35.

 

[BrutalBrutal]

For the decay code, Im banking on spunit being able to give us damage decay. If that is not possible, then I say we do not use the code. We need SOME sort of decay...

I'm not convinced we need any decay whatsoever. Removing knockback decay already nerfs spamming the same move repeatedly.

Also, I'm worried about the effect this will have on combos. I hope they're not too severely affected by this: if they are I think it's not worth it.

I still have yet to test the fast fall code. I will be doing so at 1.25. What do you guys think of fast falls? What do you think of the code?

I think it's absolutely fantastic: I would suggest that 1.25 should be the absolute minimum value and that 1.45 should be the max. I personally love 1.4 but I think 1.35 is also very good.

 

[Osi]

Any word on the "turn off auto-sweetspot" code for edges?

 

[krlos F.]

11.5% Hitstun, 1.25% fall gravity and No stale moves, are perfect!! Well I know we want a No stale moves code with Damage Decay and its ok but mean a while we can use that beta code =P

 

[kupo15]

Any word on the "turn off auto-sweetspot" code for edges?

No PW hacking until after xmas which includes the ledge codes plus buffering

 

[SketchHurricane]

11.5% Hitstun, 1.25% fall gravity and No stale moves, are perfect!!

Vids or it didn't happen

No j/k lol

Did you play some matches with those settings? Seems like it might be hard to agree on a fall speed since the values tend to vary. A lot of people like the heavy stuff. I haven't tested enough to decide.

But I think with modifiers for fall speed, stale moves (when finished), hitstun and Landing Lag Reduction (ALC), we now have all we need to actually come up with a standard for those codes. If I'm not mistaken, none of the future codes will effect our decision on the above, am I right? Do we have enough in place to start testing for closure on that particular set of codes? If so, I think we should start getting serious and provide some concrete arguments/comparisons for specific code sets...start really looking critically at what type of environment each creates.

BTW, the SBR Podcast should be out later today for anyone who missed it live (aka me)
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=201664

 

[yummynbeefy]

Movement

-Dash dancing

Stupid stuff

-Remove "fake" hitlag

-Hitlag modifier

-Port priority

-Sonic's triple jump glitch

-No laser/icicle/jab lock

-Triple jump glitch

-Names in replays

Chararacter specific

-Hook shot from anywhere

-No release grab glitch on ness/lucas/wario
Always give back second jump while in a grab. Shorten Ness/lucas grab release animation

those hacks and kupos "support" hacks (l cancelin, no tripping, hitstun) and id say a perfect game

those are the only codes im in total agreement with
decay im on the boarder for and im totally agenst changing airdodging

 

[Archangel]

Has anyone else had strange Air dodging sense getting the new codes? For some reason I can MAD forever...lol! I'm not sure if that was intentional or not but aside from that I was wondering what exactly do the new no stale move codes do anyway?

 

[SketchHurricane]

Has anyone else had strange Air dodging sense getting the new codes? For some reason I can MAD forever...lol! I'm not sure if that was intentional or not but aside from that I was wondering what exactly do the new no stale move codes do anyway?

If you mean infinite wavedashing, the yes, that's one of the side effects of MAD. If you mean constantly dodging in the air, then no, I've heard no such reports of that.

The stale move modifier can be used to either change the decay increment, or completely remove damage/knockback decay. We're waiting for a version that only removes knockback decay though.

 

[KillerSOS]

I stopped reading there.

We're not making Brawl be like Melee. We're taking the finest things of Smash that were removed from Brawl that came from both 64 and Melee and putting them back in PLUS our own spin on the game. Hence why it is called Brawl+, we're adding to it. If you can't acknowledge that, then, you shouldn't be posting here. People have said the same things and it's really annoying to correct them.

Also, EVERYBODY LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST, IT'S ABOUT BRAWL+! It just started nao!

Just so you know... Its never gonna happen on a wide scale. I am not modding my Wii and I like it just the way it is.

 

[kupo15]

Movement

-Dash dancing

Stupid stuff

-Remove "fake" hitlag

-Hitlag modifier

-Port priority

-Sonic's triple jump glitch

-No laser/icicle/jab lock

-Triple jump glitch

-Scar jumping
Remove timer for wall jumping the same wall

-Names in replays

Physics Changes

-Faster fast falls

-Shorter short hops

Chararacter specific

-Hook shot from anywhere

-No release grab glitch on ness/lucas/wario
Always give back second jump while in a grab. Shorten Ness/lucas grab release animation

those hacks and kupos "support" hacks (l cancelin, no tripping, hitstun) and id say a perfect game

those are the only codes im in total agreement with
decay im on the boarder for and im totally agenst changing airdodging

I personally rather have faster FF over shorter SH. 64 Was like this and it worked nicely. I don't think the hookshot from anywhere is a practical code. That will change up the ledge strategies for some characters and also, they would be able to latch the hookshot onto anywhere 3 times @_@ I think its just one of those "fanbased" codes IMO..

 

[Starscream]

Just so you know... Its never gonna happen on a wide scale. I am not modding my Wii and I like it just the way it is.

That's just fine, we don't need you for Brawl+. Have a nice life.

And it's not like you even need to install a mod chip or anything. If you honestly don't install the Homebrew Channel, you're letting your Wii go to waste.