"common knowledge" that a lot of people don't know

[Strong Badam]

Edit: somebody posted in the falco boards that electric attacks give the person getting hit MORE hitstop than the person using the attack. Normally both character freeze for the same amount of time and then the attack continues and the opponent goes into damage KB and hitstun.

Lol why did you call it hitstop. :V
Electric element moves give frame advantage by multiplying victim's hitstun by 1.5x, after rounding, and then rounded. Crouch-canceling also halves hitlag for the victim, giving them frame advantage in comparison to the attacker.

I think thats because in order to roll with the c stick, you must be shielding, and if you input C stick left right up down etc on the last frame of an attack or roll or something, it inputs c stick action on that next frame(same way all actions work in melee).and I guess since the shield wasnt already up smash attacks had priority or something over the shield action.


You can test this out my simply pausing the game during your standing animation. While the game is paused just press down R, and hold the C stick any direction. When u unpause you get that smash attack. Seems if u are a frame late...lol you get jump, roll, or step dodge.

cool **** bro, I didnt actually know that b4

Holding R buffers a shield, however if you input something on the frame (or effectively, the frame before) that the shield would be started, you'll do the other thing. It has priority. In programming, it is called an action override.

You can buffer grounded-dodge and jump out of shield with the C-stick as well.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Lovage I'm going to hypothesize that it will work with every character that has a momentum altering move. If you start the move the first "airborne" frame the game still has your location on the ground because location update is the last thing done each frame. It might be possible to do moves that have unique ground animations on that frame and remain grounded. This requires testing!

 

[KAOSTAR]

I refer to hit stop and hit lag as the same thing. the frames in which both players are frozen in place.

hit stun is the first frame of asdi and them moving....like getting stomped.

I didn't actually see the post myself so it may be misquoted. so are u saying that electric attacks multiply hit stop or hit stun by 1.5? it just seemed to me that when u hit somebody with an electric attack they had more hit stop resulting in u unfreezing b4 they did.

can u clarify?

also about the cc part. is that full cc or simply asdi down? im assuming its full cc since asdi is after hit stop.

about the shield thing, u can buffer rolls, dodges, jumps oos. but u have to be shielding already. which means u cant hit c stick until the frame after u input shield. thats why I assumed the smash attacks had priority if inputted on the same frame as shield. but thanks for confirming.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Kaostar can you just call it hitlag like everyone else? We have worked hard for a standard for these terms.

 

[KAOSTAR]

yea I can call it hit lag. lol@ standard and everyone else. but I picked up hit stop from toph like a year and a half ago. he said something like other games reference the term hit stop.

and yea marth's counter, m2's disable, fox falco shine, roy counter, are all vertical momentum canceling moves. u can jc them to use out of initial dash or oos without leaving the ground(I think u actually leave for 1 frame then fall back down)

and I believe these are the opposite of moves that give u the boost once per leaving the ground. marth/roy side b's, m2's confusion, peach toad, pk fire?

 

[Strong Badam]

I refer to hit stop and hit lag as the same thing. the frames in which both players are frozen in place.

But they aren't, because hit stop doesn't exist.

hit stun is the first frame of asdi and them moving....like getting stomped.

No. Hitstun is the first frame after hitlag. Frame 1 of hitstun is when trajectory DI is read, however ASDI and any sort of Smash DI come into effect during hitlag.

I didn't actually see the post myself so it may be misquoted. so are u saying that electric attacks multiply hit stop or hit stun by 1.5? it just seemed to me that when u hit somebody with an electric attack they had more hit stop resulting in u unfreezing b4 they did.

Hitlag.

also about the cc part. is that full cc or simply asdi down? im assuming its full cc since asdi is after hit stop.

While in actual crouch (Squat

yea I can call it hit lag. I picked up hit stop from toph like a year and a half ago. he said something like other games reference the term hit stop.

No game references it as hit stop. :V

and yea marth's counter, m2's disable, fox falco shine, roy counter, are all vertical momentum canceling moves. u can jc them to use out of initial dash or oos without leaving the ground(I think u actually leave for 1 frame then fall back down)

You're technically airborne for one frame, but on that frame you also land.

and I believe these are the opposite of moves that give u the boost once per leaving the ground. marth/roy side b's, m2's confusion, peach toad, pk fire?

They still cancel vertical momentum, then add some.

 

[L__]

hitstop sounds ugly

 

[KAOSTAR]

asdi should come into play simultaneously with hit stun. u sdi during hitlag and then asdi the frame after.

lmao fine, hitlag it is. blame toph lol, I liked hitlag better, hitstop is just a habit.

yea I see what u mean about the side b's. they do cancel your jump, but they add set momentum afterwards.

I thought u jumped aka airborne, then the next frame u are grounded. I don't understand how two actions happen on the same frame.

 

[L__]

toph this is all your fault

 

[Jonas]

yea I can call it hit lag. lol@ standard and everyone else. but I picked up hit stop from toph like a year and a half ago. he said something like other games reference the term hit stop.

Ok, I'm just gonna start calling smash attacks "fierce" from now on, because that's how I roll

 

[linkoninja]

Strong Bad for DK Champion~ <3
I'm bored guys seems like the boards are boring

 

[Beat!]

So...

Anyone heard about those charged Fierce Attacks?

 

[crush]

someone told me marths forward fierce attack had a lot of range

 

[Strong Badam]

I thought u jumped aka airborne, then the next frame u are grounded. I don't understand how two actions happen on the same frame.

being airborne isn't specifically an action. JumpSquat is a subaction that is followed by upward velocity, and you can begin something frame 1 of airborne and therefore you go directly from Jumpsquat to an aerial attack that can land on frame 1 if it cancels the vertical velocity on that frame. for example: wavedashing. you don't really leave the ground if you're doing it right.

 

[KAOSTAR]

so ur saying:they don't leave the ground?

this is how I thought it went.

fox jc shine.

0 input jump
1 knee bend 0
2 knee bend 1
3 knee bend 2
4 knee bend 3 input aerial action
5 air born aerial action (shine)
6 grounded

because if u input jump on frame 5 u dj out of your shine instead of single jump...its why multi shining is kinda hard.

mewtwo djc aerials work the same way...and they cancel vertical momentum

0 input jump
1 knee bend 0
2 knee bend 1
3 knee bend 2
4 knee bend 3
5 knee bend 4 input 2nd jump
6 air 2nd jump action/input aerial
7 auto cancel aerial action/grounded

so im kinda confused. I thought u left the ground for 1 frame and landed the next.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

No, if you go into AR (or just do it in 1/4 speed training mode to see for yourself) and wavedash, you never are viewed in the air. This is because the position update is done after doing work from the specific animation you are in. You have the airborne flag (i assume this is how its done, SB can correct me) for one frame, but your position isn't actually updated until after your action. In this case, the frame you gain the flag is the first frame you are able to airdodge, and by doing so you alter your momentum going downwards and you are never effected by the vertical velocity from your jump.

 

[THeDarKnesS]

That sounds like you are substituting your own reality into the game. If the game considers you in the air, then as far as I]m concerned, you are off the ground. OTG baby!!

 

[FoxLisk]

no, it just sounds ilke they actually understand how the mechanics behind the game work. interesting stuff.

 

[Dimitris]

****. Icle Mountain has a top: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx31IfNLqv0

Is that common knowledge?
New hacked counterpick stage?

 

[Metal Reeper]

They are called "Pre-jump frames"

 

[Dark Sonic]

When Peach does a fair, she actually takes off her crown and smacks you with it.

 

[shanus]

But they aren't, because hit stop doesn't exist.

No. Hitstun is the first frame after hitlag. Frame 1 of hitstun is when trajectory DI is read, however ASDI and any sort of Smash DI come into effect during hitlag.

Hitlag.

While in actual crouch (Squat

No game references it as hit stop. :V

You're technically airborne for one frame, but on that frame you also land.

They still cancel vertical momentum, then add some.

Technically, you are wrong lol.

Hitlag actually occurs on frame1 of the hitstun action. During it, your hitstun bit will be set throughout the hitlag duration. However, decrementing of your hitstun duration won't occur until post-hitlag.


Also, the explanations going on for getting in air, etc, are pretty "meh" too.

The game processes it like these:

Action A = Jumpsquat

Post Jumpsquat you are directly placed into the jump action, in which you have access to all of the games aerial common routines PRIOR to the subaction changes. This allows you to change actions prior to even the animation loading in the air. However, mapping previous action IDs would show : A -> B -> X.

A perfect wavedash is input at this point which halts all momentum and begins movement on the first frame. As your collision box hasn't actually moved far enough away at this point, the movement on the first frame causes a collision immediately.

 

[-ACE-]

Wtf. I need to read that again sober lol

 

[crush]

when fox and falco do their up bs while completely on the ground and you hold down they will always go right

 

[Lovage]

do you guys know about the glitch where if you needle cancel right as you hit the ground, sheik's needles stick to her hands like wolverine? i saw this again today for the first time in years, dunno if it's on youtube but it's pretty cool lol

 

[ETWIST51294]

Yeah, it's on Youtube. It was posted a while ago. It's a really rare glitch.

 

[Metal Reeper]

Falcon beats Marth

 

[crush]

Falcon beats Marth

i knew that one already

 

[Metal Reeper]

Some people were confused

 

[ETWIST51294]

Falcon doesn't beat Marth. And yes, I know that "some people" are the falcon boards. I think it's even tbh.

 

[Metal Reeper]

Marth's say Falcon wins, Falcon's say Marth wins.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

My marth beats falcon's better than my fox. idk why i just hate that matchup

 

[Strong Badam]

Marth vs. Falcon is even lol.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Falcons say its even. I'm a fequent poster there and I almost never see someone say that marth wins.

 

[MonkUnit]

Yeah, it's on Youtube. It was posted a while ago. It's a really rare glitch.

youtube link please

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JreFlckt_7k

 

[Metal Reeper]

^ That's really funny. Have never seen that one before.

Most probably know this, but if you're going to get jab reseted, SDI up and you will kinda pop up out of the reset. Or you can hold left/right or A to buffer a roll/getup attack.

 

[Juggleguy]

If you're shielding and get pushed off a platform, you tumble if you're facing backwards, but have no 'tumble lag' if you're facing forwards.

 

[Renth]

If you hold the A button. You can toggle your shield.

hold A then hit Z then hit L/R really fast, I do it in between stocks every once in awhile and people are always like... huh?

 

[crush]

^ That's really funny. Have never seen that one before.

Most probably know this, but if you're going to get jab reseted, SDI up and you will kinda pop up out of the reset. Or you can hold left/right or A to buffer a roll/getup attack.

SDI ing up doesnt work against most characters jabs