It's not different enough honestly, especially with MK banned from actual play.
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Clowsui and Hilt Present: VENGEANCE - Arcade Legacy - IMPULSE Circuit
- Thread starter clowsui
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DLA
"Their anguish was my nourishment."
I don't understand why people play low tiers
Overswarm
is laughing at you
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For some people its a defense mechanism. How many times have you seen a low/mid tier player say "Oh whatever, I got you to last stock last hit and you were SNAKE!" or something of the sort? You don't automatically assume the guy with a nerf gun is a bad shot if he dies in war. So if you feel you're a bad shot, you pick up the nerf gun.
Some people like the challenge or the novelty. I personally have considered picking up pokemon trainer as a character, just to see if I could do it. I can pick up Wario, Marth, Dedede, Olimar, Snake, and other "good characters" and do decently well. I can play my old ROB and, even though ROB is bad, do well due to my experience with the character. But if I won with pokemon trainer? Or bowser? That'd be ****ing awesome.
A few others just enjoy the character for whatever reason. I really enjoy playing characters like bowser or pokemon trainer. If I was going to get owned in a tournament, I could just go them and get owned. I don't have that much time to practice anymore, so I'm just kind of winging it in every match I play. I have been maining MK for years and now I'm using my 2008 knowledge of these characters in 2012 and I don't have time to practice. Why NOT play a ****ty character and have fun if I'm going to lose anyway?
That's just off the top of my head.
Some people like the challenge or the novelty. I personally have considered picking up pokemon trainer as a character, just to see if I could do it. I can pick up Wario, Marth, Dedede, Olimar, Snake, and other "good characters" and do decently well. I can play my old ROB and, even though ROB is bad, do well due to my experience with the character. But if I won with pokemon trainer? Or bowser? That'd be ****ing awesome.
A few others just enjoy the character for whatever reason. I really enjoy playing characters like bowser or pokemon trainer. If I was going to get owned in a tournament, I could just go them and get owned. I don't have that much time to practice anymore, so I'm just kind of winging it in every match I play. I have been maining MK for years and now I'm using my 2008 knowledge of these characters in 2012 and I don't have time to practice. Why NOT play a ****ty character and have fun if I'm going to lose anyway?
That's just off the top of my head.
Fancy Fanny
advances in gem tech
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And if the low tier wins they can boast that a good character lost to a trash one.
sneakytako
Smash Lord
Exceladon City
Smash Hero
I do about as well with Luigi and Sonic as I did with MK and ICs. I enjoy playing Luigi more than most characters which is I main him over Sonic.
/.02
/.02
Overswarm
is laughing at you
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why you there and not here >:[
DLA
"Their anguish was my nourishment."
lol sup Sneakytako.
Everyone who plays a low tier in tournament should just stop johning when they lose in rd. 2 losers bracket and realize that they're bad players. The sooner the better IMO
Everyone who plays a low tier in tournament should just stop johning when they lose in rd. 2 losers bracket and realize that they're bad players. The sooner the better IMO
I think that's a joke but do people actually even do that
steep
Smash Lord
I would enter a LT bracket. I've never been in one before.
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
Considering we'll be running an amateur bracket at this event, I don't think a low tier side event is practical.
steep
Smash Lord
So how exactly does an amateur bracket work? Is it a bracket comprised of those who didn't make it into pro bracket or do you have to choose which bracket to enter?
DBSammy
Smash Ace
It's usually an optional 2nd bracket for people who didn't make it out of pools.
What's The Point
Smash Master
I really hope this doesn't happen. Why is 3rd in the amateur bracket going to get as much or more money than 4th in the real bracket? The premise of adding a pot bonus (Or a pot at all) to an amateur bracket is stupid.
AllyKnight
Banned via Administration
this^. Really stupid.
Eddie G
Smash Hero
Agreed with WTP and Ally. Adding a bonus to what is essentially a sympathy bracket only makes people develop an agenda instead of working to push through the actual bracket like the rest of us.
KassandraNova
Smash Master
ShhhhhAgreed with WTP and Ally. Adding a bonus to what is essentially a sympathy bracket only makes people develop an agenda instead of working to push through the actual bracket like the rest of us.
<_<
I don't see a problem with a pot bonus to the amateur bracket so long as there's an equal or greater pot bonus to the main bracket.
There's nothing wrong to helping aid people's pockets as long as there isn't a focus solely on the amateur bracket imo
There's nothing wrong to helping aid people's pockets as long as there isn't a focus solely on the amateur bracket imo
ShadowPhoenix951
Smash Ace
Oh, Chi, I'll be bringing a full setup, by the way.
Sync.
Smash Champion
I can't go anymore...
links24
Smash Ace
i played a LT for 3 years still have fun with him......
(link is top tier you just dont know.......
(link is top tier you just dont know.......
Eddie G
Smash Hero
Sync.
Smash Champion
My family is like super Catholic and I have to be with them this weekend for Easter freaking MEXICANS
Eddie G
Smash Hero
Damn. 
And what of Illmatic and PJ?
And what of Illmatic and PJ?
DeLux
Player that used to be Lux
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2010
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- 9,310
@ Amateur Bracket Talk:
The amateur bracket is anything but a sympathy bracket.
I've been running an amateur bracket setup in KC to some major success with positive criticism from both players that consistently are put into the amateur bracket and players that consistently compete (and win) in pro bracket. The idea that it causes players to "develop an agenda" among other perceived and suggested negative reasons has multiple criticisms .
First and foremost, how does one quantify if someone is under performing as par to of an agenda? The only people that are going to sand bag into the amateur bracket rather than compete in the pro bracket are the marginal players. When I say marginal players, I mean it's a toss up as to whether or not they would even make it out of pools. For every marginal player that sand bags their way to the amateur bracket, it means another marginal player might make it to the pro bracket to give them a chance to prove they belong that they might not otherwise have had. Especially with how bad pools are often seeded, there really isn't any way to quantify who is destined to make amateur or pro bracket for most player that this agenda would matter. The people that are a more or less lock at making the pro bracket generally have a realistic shot of winning bigger money in the pro bracket. It would be irrational on their part to tank themselves that hard, and it hasn't happened to my knowledge in amateur brackets that have been run nationwide that I've followed.
Second, the people that typically compete in the amateur brackets are the life blood of the community. Without them, there would not be a tournament. For every winner of a tournament, there are many more losers that go home with nothing. In a perfect world, I can give two or three people that never normally compete for big money a chance to do so at a regional tournament. If that isn't hype inducing and rewarding to the base of the community, I don't know what is.
Third, the counter argument assumes that 5th/4th place is entitled to more money than a prize in the amateur bracket. There really isn't any reason to make this assumption in the context because a double elimination tournament is designed to determine the top placing player with less accuracy for every place following. Since anything after first from an accuracy is a theoretical crapshoot, more or less there can't be logical connection to entitlement.
Fourth, the bonus to amateurs benefits attendance for the tournament overall, thus improving the pro bracket. For my tournaments, pro bracket players have been able to convince amateur bracket players to carpool with them from out of state to attend since those players now have incentive monetarily speaking to attend that they didn't before. If given proper advertisement, more demographics are given reason to attend.
Since the only cons seem to logically be the bruised ego sense of entitlement (which I addressed) and the agenda setting (which I also addressed), the benefits still stand on pot bonusing the Amateur Bracket. As such, in the event I make pro bracket, I intend to put the pot bonus in amateurs.
The amateur bracket is anything but a sympathy bracket.
I've been running an amateur bracket setup in KC to some major success with positive criticism from both players that consistently are put into the amateur bracket and players that consistently compete (and win) in pro bracket. The idea that it causes players to "develop an agenda" among other perceived and suggested negative reasons has multiple criticisms .
First and foremost, how does one quantify if someone is under performing as par to of an agenda? The only people that are going to sand bag into the amateur bracket rather than compete in the pro bracket are the marginal players. When I say marginal players, I mean it's a toss up as to whether or not they would even make it out of pools. For every marginal player that sand bags their way to the amateur bracket, it means another marginal player might make it to the pro bracket to give them a chance to prove they belong that they might not otherwise have had. Especially with how bad pools are often seeded, there really isn't any way to quantify who is destined to make amateur or pro bracket for most player that this agenda would matter. The people that are a more or less lock at making the pro bracket generally have a realistic shot of winning bigger money in the pro bracket. It would be irrational on their part to tank themselves that hard, and it hasn't happened to my knowledge in amateur brackets that have been run nationwide that I've followed.
Second, the people that typically compete in the amateur brackets are the life blood of the community. Without them, there would not be a tournament. For every winner of a tournament, there are many more losers that go home with nothing. In a perfect world, I can give two or three people that never normally compete for big money a chance to do so at a regional tournament. If that isn't hype inducing and rewarding to the base of the community, I don't know what is.
Third, the counter argument assumes that 5th/4th place is entitled to more money than a prize in the amateur bracket. There really isn't any reason to make this assumption in the context because a double elimination tournament is designed to determine the top placing player with less accuracy for every place following. Since anything after first from an accuracy is a theoretical crapshoot, more or less there can't be logical connection to entitlement.
Fourth, the bonus to amateurs benefits attendance for the tournament overall, thus improving the pro bracket. For my tournaments, pro bracket players have been able to convince amateur bracket players to carpool with them from out of state to attend since those players now have incentive monetarily speaking to attend that they didn't before. If given proper advertisement, more demographics are given reason to attend.
Since the only cons seem to logically be the bruised ego sense of entitlement (which I addressed) and the agenda setting (which I also addressed), the benefits still stand on pot bonusing the Amateur Bracket. As such, in the event I make pro bracket, I intend to put the pot bonus in amateurs.
Dooms
KY/KP Joey
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If you got into the amateur bracket, you'd have to play me :D.
I'll stop you from winning
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Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
I don't know, OS. We have many bowser slayers in Ohio.
Dooms
KY/KP Joey
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#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
dGames social.
Dooms
KY/KP Joey
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Xonar get outta here.
What's The Point
Smash Master
Too many words so I will sum up. Paying out 3 guys doesn't really give back money to the life blood pot fillers, and I can't see how getting last twice would make anyone want to come back. Most people just end up paying twice. Over half the people who make it to pro bracket do not have a shot at money.
1st: $480
2nd: $220
3rd: $140
4th: $80
5th: $40
...
33th: $201
34th: $100
35th: $33
OS better watch out for all the other people who accidentally drowned.
1st: $480
2nd: $220
3rd: $140
4th: $80
5th: $40
...
33th: $201
34th: $100
35th: $33
OS better watch out for all the other people who accidentally drowned.
Hot_ArmS
Smash Hero
I suck and don't enter tournies so I'm a shoo in for AM bracket
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
I don't have time to fully sift through all of the posts on the amateur bracket, however one thing that I will say, and something that I have talked to Chi a lot about, is that 1st in the amateur bracket will not make more money than the lowest paid placement in singles bracket (probably 5th). Lux, Chi and I will be talking about how exactly it's going to go down.
One idea suggested that Chi and I really liked was, if Lux is bent on donating the $100, to have that be the entire pot for AM. AM wouldn't have an entry fee and would be open for whomever doesn't make it out of pools.
Suggestions are welcome, and I do appreciate Lux wanting to donate to the Amateur Bracket. We will be running an amateur bracket.
And just so it's stated again, there will not be a higher payout to first in amateur bracket than the lowest paid placement in singles
One idea suggested that Chi and I really liked was, if Lux is bent on donating the $100, to have that be the entire pot for AM. AM wouldn't have an entry fee and would be open for whomever doesn't make it out of pools.
Suggestions are welcome, and I do appreciate Lux wanting to donate to the Amateur Bracket. We will be running an amateur bracket.
And just so it's stated again, there will not be a higher payout to first in amateur bracket than the lowest paid placement in singles
sneakytako
Smash Lord
The number one mistake that you guys did is that you announced that there will be a amateur bracket, instead of waiting to make it a surprise at the venue. Inevitably borderline players will sandbag some matches if given the option of placing last in the real bracket vs potentially winning amateur bracket. What you do is up to you, but you know we've talked about this issue chi :/
Eddie G
Smash Hero
What Sneakytako said, verbatim.
MJG
Smash Hero
Win^
Sneaky is always so knowledgeable...gotta save us from the cops this time around LOL
Overswarm
is laughing at you
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I'm not really sure why there's an amateur bracket in the first place.
Most people aren't going to make money from smash. They just... won't. It's nice, and it's great, and it'll make them happy, but amateur brackets will take up time and setups from the tournament. Besides, the "lifeblood" of tournaments aren't the people that don't make it out of pools, its the drivers.
Just not seeing why you wouldn't just say "payment in singles out to 16th place" or something like that. Telling someone 'you're good enough to get in bracket, so you make $0, but that guy you 2-0'd in pools just won an amateur bracket and paid for his trip". Just seems silly.
Most people aren't going to make money from smash. They just... won't. It's nice, and it's great, and it'll make them happy, but amateur brackets will take up time and setups from the tournament. Besides, the "lifeblood" of tournaments aren't the people that don't make it out of pools, its the drivers.
Just not seeing why you wouldn't just say "payment in singles out to 16th place" or something like that. Telling someone 'you're good enough to get in bracket, so you make $0, but that guy you 2-0'd in pools just won an amateur bracket and paid for his trip". Just seems silly.
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