Clowsui and Hilt present: RETRIBUTION//Results are up

[Mister Eric]

Just make the Yoshi not grab. He has a back up grab anyways.

 

[@TKbreezy]

@Tech I was down to team if you are still coming

I play Kirby and Falco though. I'm down to learn aggro if needed. Dthrow to Gay **** my favorite combo.

if not tho

I still need a teammate guys.

 

[Raziek]

It's not even gonna matter, so idk why people are bustin' a nut.

This glitch has literally never happened in practice, right?

 

[Kel]

This could be an issue now that people know about it. Chi needs to make a ruling on this now so drama doesn't go down mid-tournament.

Reflex will mash out of a Yoshi's grab.

 

[Raziek]

I really don't think it's reasonable to make a ruling when you have no circumstances, and all you're doing is causing the man a headache, because SOMEONE is gonna be mad regardless of what he decides.

I don't see why this discussion is even happening right now.

 

[Roller]

Because last time a problem happened mid-match at one of Chi's tournaments it caused one of the most infamous situations in the history of Brawl.

30 minute wait on the decision
Chi trying to convince a player to concede
Failing to convince
Making a ruling to replay the match
Results in opposite player winning as who initially won.
Entire region gets pissed.


If we don't learn from this ****, then we're being idiots.

 

[sneakytako]

I wasn't mad.

And we did learn from this. Turn off pause bro.

 

[DtJ Composer]

Because last time a problem happened mid-match at one of Chi's tournaments it caused one of the most infamous situations in the history of Brawl.

30 minute wait on the decision
Chi trying to convince a player to concede
Failing to convince
Making a ruling to replay the match
Results in opposite player winning as who initially won.
Entire region gets pissed.


If we don't learn from this ****, then we're being idiots.

This was one of Today's tournaments btw, and replace every instance of Chi doing somethere here with Daycia doing it.
But your point is still legit. If there's a possibility of it being an issue there needs to be a ruling, even if it's small.

 

[Kel]

Yeah, it's being discussed in this topic a lot and there are a bunch of Yoshis coming to this. Most people didn't even know about this glitch but will now be attempting to force it if they play a Yoshi. It would be much easier for Chi to say now, in advance, "Hey, if you freeze the game when Yoshi grabs you, Yoshi wins." Or "If the game freezes and Yoshi is grabbing you, Yoshi loses for not knowing his character had the potential to freeze the game from a mash out at that low of a percent" (I am assuming there is a percent where it is theoretically impossible to mash out of Yoshi's grab due to the frame data not changing).

Either way, we should get a ruling now so that this discussion can revert to something more on-topic. Although, I enjoy this 100000X more than talking about P1 all the time.

 

[Xatic]

Seems like this became a pretty big issue. Chi has to choose between either it being Yoshi's fault for grabbing or the opponent's fault for mashing.. >_>

welp, with most of the main points being hit it really just comes down to what Chi wants to do about it. Either way someone's gonna be mad.

Good luck. rofl

 

[What's The Point]

It's not a big deal. It's just a mildly intersting topic that trumped the previous topic. Anyway,

9. Any action that can prevent the game from continuing (i.e., freezing, disappearing characters, game reset, etc.) will result in a forfeit of that match for the player that initiated the action. You are responsible for knowing your own character, and must be wary about accidentally triggering one of these effects.

And since everyone but Delta says that it's the Yoshi grab thst initiates it, Yoshi loses. Which is the correct ruling so everything worked out.



Also the current pause rule is stupid.

 

[Roller]

I apologize for the brainfart. Was thinking of Day, but some type of Freudian slip happened. everyone please replace Chi's name in my last post with Daycia.

 

[Delta-cod]

We are using the unity ruleset, no? So...

9. Any action that can prevent the game from continuing (i.e., freezing, disappearing characters, game reset, etc.) will result in a forfeit of that match for the player that initiated the action. You are responsible for knowing your own character, and must be wary about accidentally triggering one of these effects.

What is the action that prevents the game from continuing?

Mashing out of Yoshi's grab.

Who initiates the action of mashing out of Yoshi's grab?

The opponent, not Yoshi.

Going by strict definition of our ruleset, Yoshi shouldn't be penalized for his opponents' actions.

To contrast this with the IC Fusion glitch, the ICs have to initiate the fusion by getting hit by a projectile under certain conditions. It is the actions of the IC player that causes the glitch, not the opponent. The opponent merely provides the possibility for you to glitch yourself.

And since everyone but Delta says that it's the Yoshi grab thst initiates it, Yoshi loses. Which is the correct ruling so everything worked out.

Yeah, because being correctness of rules is definitely decided by the majority.

 

[Raziek]

I'd like to derail this stupid discussion and instead suggest we all take a few minutes out of our days to skip to 3:30 and stare at Jessica Nigri for a few minutes.

[yt]m12p5bXo-Z8[/yt]

 

[Eddie G]

If we're talking about what initiated the whole process of freezing - it's quite obviously Yoshi's grab, not the mashing that FOLLOWS AS A RESULT OF TRYING TO ESCAPE THE GRAB, AS MOST PLAYERS WITH COMMON SENSE WOULD TRY TO DO.

You are responsible for knowing your own character, and must be wary of accidentally triggering one of these effects - ergo Yoshi, and grabbing with him. Not something hat can universally happen with any other character (the freez) as a result of the opponent mashing out of being grabbed by Yoshi in the first place.

I mean, I know Yoshi sucks and all...but allowing him a free grab opportunity under any circumstance would be asinine.

 

[JTsm]

Here's a video of how the glitch is done: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWZ_IStFrPc

As you can see, it looks like it is fairly difficult for this to happen, but the blame should be on the source of the glitch, IMO.

 

[clowsui]

Since we can deduce logically that the glitch isn't caused directly by Yoshi's grab input, and knowing that the glitch is caused by mashing out at the earliest possible time and farthest range of Yoshi's grab isn't something that can reasonably be expected by every player, then it seems a restart from point of freezing would be the appropriate course of action.

Since the game is frozen, it conveniently gives both players ample time to note important factors such as percent, timer, and positioning on stage. If people complain about stale move issues you can note that if the Yoshi player complains it's part of the risk they run in going for grab and picking the character, and also if the grabbed player complains they are in fact responsible for the inputs that caused the reset, so they can deal with it.

There we go.

Fundamentally this situation is different from Ganoncide and other suicide moves since the only outcome that the game gives us is a "freeze" situation.

The only real "abuse" in this scenario is removal of momentum.

 

[sneakytako]

Idk about anyone else, but I pretty much mash random buttons all game. If I mash out of a grab, it's just a coincidence that I was grabbed at that moment.

 

[Raziek]

Cool, now we can shut up about Yoshi and instead get hyped for this tournament and how badly P-1 is gonna get trashed by EVERYBODY.

 

[LOE1]

whats the ic fusion glitch? havent heard of that one before

 

[Delta-cod]

If we're talking about what initiated the whole process of freezing - it's quite obviously Yoshi's grab, not the mashing that FOLLOWS AS A RESULT OF TRYING TO ESCAPE THE GRAB, AS MOST PLAYERS WITH COMMON SENSE WOULD TRY TO DO.

You are responsible for knowing your own character, and must be wary of accidentally triggering one of these effects - ergo Yoshi, and grabbing with him. Not something hat can universally happen with any other character (the freez) as a result of the opponent mashing out of being grabbed by Yoshi in the first place.

I mean, I know Yoshi sucks and all...but allowing him a free grab opportunity under any circumstance would be asinine.

But the mashing is what initiated the freezing process.

You only think mashing out of the grab is common sense because causing the game to freeze by mashing isn't a common thing. If it were, however, people would simply have to be more careful about how they mash.

I agree, everyone is responsible for knowing their own character. Ergo, they should know that their character can freeze the game by mashing out of Yoshi's grab.

There we go.

Fundamentally this situation is different from Ganoncide and other suicide moves since the only outcome that the game gives us is a "freeze" situation.

The only real "abuse" in this scenario is removal of momentum.

THE ALL MIGHTY CLOWSUI HAS SPOKEN.

Oh Jake, I see you lurkin'

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

whats the ic fusion glitch? havent heard of that one before

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbIKEeg7Fwk

 

[Hot_ArmS]

You guys shouldn't lose to yoshi no matter what anyway

 

[clowsui]

On another note, haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaave you met Hilt?

Cuz he has an important message for you.

: Okay guys. I know the tournament is two weeks away and all, but we really need TVs and Wiis. So if anybody who hasn't already committed to bringing a TV or a Wii could do so, that'd be great.

 

[LOE1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbIKEeg7Fwk

now that **** is more broken than the yoshi glitch

cause its

 

[~Firefly~]

It's not even gonna matter, so idk why people are bustin' a nut.

This glitch has literally never happened in practice, right?

I play all the time with players who are very good at mashing out of Yoshi's grabs (it's not uncommon for me to see them force a ground release out of a CG if I pummel them above 40%), and I have never had this happen to me, nor have I ever seen it happen anywhere outside of the video that first showed that the glitch is possible. As far as I can tell, the glitch only happens when Yoshi uses a standing grab, lands it on an opponent at maximum range at 0%, and the opponent mashes as quickly as possible. Hell, Yoshi rarely uses standing grab as it is.

It's a very strict sequence of events, and it seems like all the TOs that have chimed in here (I'll add myself to that group) agree that they'd probably just restart the match in the highly unlikely event that this was to happen in a tournament. Doesn't seem like such a big deal to me.

 

[Delta-cod]

Jake shhhhhhhhhhhh I was bored.

While if I were a TO I'd definitely reset the match, I find it interesting that a lot of people were supporting the "ban Yoshi from grabbing" line of thought.

 

[Raziek]

It's because we hate you.

No, really. It is.

You play Yoshi.

 

[~Firefly~]

Because Yoshi isn't bad enough as it is.

Stay free Raz. =]

 

[Delta-cod]

It's because we hate you.

No, really. It is.

You play Yoshi.

Everyone that picks Yoshi to play competitively in this game never played with the other kids outside at recess and doesn't know what the meaning of fun is.

10eggtosses

 

[Raziek]

Stay free Raz. =]

Brawl Singles Bracket (16 entrants)

1) SuperBoomFan ($277)
2) billybeegood ($166)
3) Croi ($83)
4) Raziek ($27)
5) Attila ($10)
5) Drake ($10)
7) Nysyarc
7) zhao_guang
9) White
9) Firefly
9) Shaft
9) TeJay
13) Curly
13) Cylix
13) Oons
13) Caesar

Yep.

 

[~Firefly~]

Yeah, I dropped a set to the same player who did this to you. **** happens~

 

[Raziek]

Gotta get some new material bro, that one's dried up.

Haven't lost to him in tourney since.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Man, that's old.

 

[Delta-cod]

It's still amazing, though.

 

[~Firefly~]

Whatever. I never said I wasn't free anyway~

 

[KassandraNova]

Whatever. I never said I wasn't free anyway~

What kind of comeback is that? Lmao


....

 

[Raziek]

It's called Firefly getting bodied.

 

[SoulPech]

10eggtosses

more like 1000 egg tosses.

 

[~Firefly~]

What kind of comeback is that? Lmao


....

It wasn't supposed to be a comeback...? He outplaced me at the last tournament we were both at, good for him. I simply don't care enough to back up a bit of playful trashtalk with empirical evidence that I'm a better player than him. It's not like I really have any anyway, since we live in completely separate regions.

Stay free, me~