Character w/ Largest Learning Curve

[goodkid]

I'd say the more complex characters like Lucas, Peach, Link, PT, ICs, mostly the characters that have a hard time killing or hard to learn recoveries.

 

[Excellence]

i'd say the most difficult character to learn is Pokemon Trainer followed by Sonic.

Meta Knight.
In all seriousness, probably IC, whom I picked up a few days ago...

What?! Are you freaking serious? Here's a tip: Tornado, Tornado, more Tornado, DSmash, Dsmash, Fair, Shuttle Loop - KO.

Sonic imo.

Second up would have to be Snake and Lucario and maybe R.O.B.

Third up would be the slow, heavy characters. (D3, Bowser, DK, etc.)

I was down for everything you said until you said D3 is hard to use. Come on, chaingrab then pick the most intelligent follow-up.

Olimar really doesn't strike me as a hard character to learn, as long as you know how his Pikmin stuff works (which honestly takes max 5 minutes to figure out).

I have to agree with Sonic and probably PT / Ice Climbers. It takes a while to get used to using a character like Sonic where you have to work really hard to do everything. He feels a lot worse than he actually is when you start using him because of that.

Pikmin's individual hitboxes and effects are difficult and time consuming to learn, not many people on the Olimar boards even realize there's a difference.

Diddy has the most tech skill in brawl, period.

The highest learning curve is probably ice climbers since they're so hard to use properly

Just, no.

 

[Espy Rose]

It's incredibly easy to be a mediocre Snake, yeah.

Being a GOOD Snake will take a lot more work.

That applies to every character, even more to the extent of the "sucky" characters.

I mean, it's incredibly easy to be a mediocre Sonic, yeah.

Being a GOOD Sonic will take a lot more work.

c wat i did thar?

 

[Demenise]

i'd say the most difficult character to learn is Pokemon Trainer followed by Sonic.



What?! Are you freaking serious? Here's a tip: Tornado, Tornado, more Tornado, DSmash, Dsmash, Fair, Shuttle Loop - KO.



I was down for everything you said until you said D3 is hard to use. Come on, chaingrab then pick the most intelligent follow-up.



Pikmin's individual hitboxes and effects are difficult and time consuming to learn, not many people on the Olimar boards even realize there's a difference.



Just, no.

He was kidding about the Metaknight. He even SAID he was kidding. Also, yes, Ice Climbers take some of the most skill, along with Diddy. Anyone can be a mediocre Diddy. Anyone can catch bananas. It takes a good Diddy to make sure that doesn't happen.

 

[dawgbowl]

Absolutely sonic, PT, and ICs.

Link I can see sort of...

that's all that really comes to mind.

 

[AlAxe]

I have to say snake. Yea you can beat noobs by just using tilts but if you want to be good you have to master all his moves which is very difficult. I'm still discovering new things that haven't been done before with him. ICs and Diddy are pretty high up there too.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

What?! Are you freaking serious? Here's a tip: Tornado, Tornado, more Tornado, DSmash, Dsmash, Fair, Shuttle Loop - KO.

You're new to this whole "internet" thing, aren't you?

That applies to every character, even more to the extent of the "sucky" characters.

I mean, it's incredibly easy to be a mediocre Sonic, yeah.

Being a GOOD Sonic will take a lot more work.

c wat i did thar?

*Sigh* Take it in context, you twit. I was responding to someone who said all you needed to do to win with Snake is use tilts.

 

[unwelc0med]

i love maining snake for this reason.


but i say olimar.


i find him EXTREMELY hard to use.

major props to olimar mainers.

 

[Nitrix]

Each character is different. But on average, I'd say Diddy has a really high learning curve. He is very reliant on Glide-Tossing, and you have to utilize your bananas perfectly in a match if you want to win against good oponents.

but i say olimar.

i find him EXTREMELY hard to use.

major props to olimar mainers.

Thats pretty suprising. Olimar seems pretty basic to me.

 

[JacobWins]

Most ''bottom tier'' characters are pretty hard to do good with in a tournament environment and therefor require a larger learning curve

 

[Tenki]

Sonic.
I used to think Pokemon Trainer, but after playing around with him he's one of the more difficult ones to pick up but no where near the hardest.

I dont see how it could be Sonic or PT. They're not that hard to learn. the hardest would have to be Olimar or Ice Climbers.

The trick to PT is to use Squirtle till 60%, Ivysaur till 120%, and then use Charizard for the rest.

o_O; I hope you don't mean for opponent %'s.
-----------

Wow, alot of people voting for Sonic, lol.

I figured this, after switching to/becoming a Sonic main [yeah, I didn't main him at first lol]- in general, Sonic is a "basic" character at the core of the gameplay; his mobility allows you to take advantage of things alot easier while trying to get around priority issues and crap. Aside from his special attacks (which are... pretty big of a deal), there isn't too much that makes him so different other than mobility and generally smaller physical range.

Anyone who knows how to set up a grab and follow up throws can take advantage of Sonic's grab game.
Anyone who can pick up spacing can take advantage of speed and his few 'ranged' moves.
Anyone who can read opponent movements can take advantage of his spin cancels and speed to bait and punish moves.

Other than learning his jumps, recovery range, dash, move range, and specials, there isn't really much to learn, character-speaking. You just learn to be a better player overall, and apply it to Sonic XD

So really, it's not "learning Sonic" as it is "learning Smash"

ICdesynchs are hard for me D:
then again, I spent less than an hour total trying to do them, and got a crappy sh alt-blizzard approach lol.

 

[Fatmanonice]

In my personal opinion:

1. Sonic (Playing as him straight forward is pretty much asking to get the crap beat our of you. You have to learn the uses of the spindashes, spring, and the right time to use his smash attacks. You also have to learn all the spindash to aerial combinations.)

2. Pokemon Trainer (Three characters to learn, enough said.)

3. Shiek (Craptastic killing potential so you have to learn how to rack up damage really fast using tilts, needles, etc.)

4. Ice Climbers (Desyncing and the various chain grabs take months to learn to use right.)

5. Zero Suit Samus (Another character where you'll get the crap beaten out of you if you play as her straight forward. Proper spacing extremelly important for this character.)

 

[Onxy]

Ivysaur alone has more of a learning curve than some characters mentioned - like Olimar for example.

 

[Denzi]

I would say (in no particular order):

Sonic
ICs
Zamus
Lucario

But that's just from my experience.

 

[4Serial]

obviously Link

 

[Violent-nin]

I'd have to say between PT and Sonic.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

Most ''bottom tier'' characters are pretty hard to do good with in a tournament environment and therefor require a larger learning curve

It's not the same thing.

 

[JLynn943]

I would say either Diddy, Yoshi, or the ICs are hardest to learn

they've all got difficult techniques/strategies to master before you can do any real damage with them in the tourney scene

 

[Steeler]

dude...pt mains are basically asking to learn a traditional main and two secondaries to the point where they can use them in any matchup.

uhh?

like hell, i've played pt since day one and i still only KNOW how to use each poke against like half of the cast. pt's gotta memorize ALMOST 120 DIFFERENT MATCHUPS.

then the whole fatigue/switching mechanic and getting around that.

 

[petycash]

Despite being just another to repeat what's already been said. I'd say sonic has the steepest learning curve, he's very much different then most the cast and takes awhile to get used to that.

 

[LegionBrawler]

Ice climbers and meta knight.

 

[asob4]

olimar is kinda easy to learn play wise, the hardest is following your line and understanding the physics of the pikmin (arc, life span, damage, range, power, etc) even then it isn't that hard
you just have to focus on a lot more than with other characters

IC's by far, then diddy, zss, sonic in no order

 

[petrie911]

Why has Ness not been mentioned yet?

 

[LordoftheMorning]

Yeah snake still feels weird as hell. I had to try Lucario over and over before something clicked. Samus is hard for me. Dunno why.

 

[Dai Tian]

Heh not surprising that a lot of people voted for Sonic. He's a difficult one to use yeah but I wouldn't say that he has the highest curve in the game. Not as long as the Trainer is around anyways.

Sonic has low kill power right? Well this problem will come up for the PT as well after any one of the pokemon reaches the exhaustion point. If you cannot get your opponent off of you quickly once you get this far then you effectively have to play a game of endurance as you'll have equal or less kill power than Sonic has (Well maybe not Charizard but still). And god help you if you end up in this position with the pokemon you're least comfortable using.

Sonic can't afford to become predictable, so you have to learn how to mix it up. PT can't afford to have any of his movesets weaker than the other 2, so you have to become competent enough to play a power type, a speed type and whatever Ivysaur would be classified as. At least with Sonic you only have to focus on one character's shortcomings and advantages. Ivysaur has his recovery issues, Charizard's a big target and one of the lighter heavies, and Squirtle will almost always tire himself out the fastest just due to his playstyle.

All three's weaknesses and strengths get rolled into one. And you can't play favorites unless, again, you always want to have less kill power than Sonic has.

Sonic is hard to play, there's no question about that. I just don't think he's the hardest one in the game to play. Second or third in the game works for him.

 

[Pearl Floatzel]

Why has Ness not been mentioned yet?

'Cause they forgot he existed. Noone plays Ness, so noone knows his learning curve.
But I'm gonna have to agree with you. Ness.

 

[brinboy789]

Sonic
PT
IC
Link
ZSS

easiest to use is probably snake. ftilt to death. or maybe a utilt at the end. GOOD/GREAT snakes however have many playstules...the average snake = ftilt spam :\

 

[Kitamerby]

dude...pt mains are basically asking to learn a traditional main and two secondaries to the point where they can use them in any matchup.

uhh?

like hell, i've played pt since day one and i still only KNOW how to use each poke against like half of the cast. pt's gotta memorize ALMOST 120 DIFFERENT MATCHUPS.

then the whole fatigue/switching mechanic and getting around that.

So? That says nothing about the learning curve. With common sense, you should be able to beat nearly any matchup with any pokemon. There's nothing to learn. There's nothing to master. Just because they're all strung together people think that you have to be some sort of god to know how to use each Pokemon when. In reality, it's absolutely nothing more than simply having a main and two secondaries, except for the fact that you can switch between them mid-match at will.

Why has Ness not been mentioned yet?

Because outside of basic aerial usage, common sense, and aiming PKT2, there's nothing to learn.

Ice Climbers have the highest possible learning curves not because of the chaingrabs (although they are a factor), but rather because of the Desynch possibilities. The learning curve is endless, because they just have so many possibilities for many various situations when desynching is implemented. <<

I personally think Diddy should be second, but another part of me says that the bananas may not be all they're cracked up to be in terms of their "potential."

Here's a shocker that nobody could ever think up: Pikachu. He may not be the most technical character, but he should be up there definitely. Quick Attack Cancel is an absolute monster to learn perfectly. The thing about QAC is that you not only have to be fast enough to make the movements and make sure that they'll get you back to solid ground, but you also have to judge distances and precise angles, figure out what to do out of the quick attack, make slight adjustments for the opponent's movement, and being sure to move yourself in a way that you become unpunishable, as even the slightest mistake in the movement of your thumb could completely throw off the entire maneuver due to Pikachu's aerials having crap range, or putting yourself in range for an opponent to smack you out of your QA.

Check out 2:38 until the end of this match, and you might understand exactly the kind of precision that is needed for QAC to be truly the monster that we all know it can be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K48uk0Vvo60

 

[LuLLo]

Someone really has to tell me what's so hard about playing Sonic...
Okay, he's not easy to pick up, but he hardly is the most difficult, in a few matches I learned to use his Side and Down B's effectively, I learned his Up-B follow-ups, various approaches against projectilers, so what's the deal with him, are there some good techniques I don't know of?

 

[Greward]

i think diddy is the harder

 

[Tenki]

Sonic can't afford to become predictable, so you have to learn how to mix it up. PT can't afford to have any of his movesets weaker than the other 2, so you have to become competent enough to play a power type, a speed type and whatever Ivysaur would be classified as. At least with Sonic you only have to focus on one character's shortcomings and advantages. Ivysaur has his recovery issues, Charizard's a big target and one of the lighter heavies, and Squirtle will almost always tire himself out the fastest just due to his playstyle.

Use one of their kill moves (Squirtle D-throw, Ivy [..smash?? don't know of a quick/easy knockback move lol], Charizard D-throw/D-tilt), then down-B.

hoorah, safe transformation.

Charizard actually seems to function the best under fatigue, so the only reason I can see you switching to Squirtle is if the opponent is at a certain % and you just wanna get a guaranteed 'fresh D-throw' kill.

But... PT is just one of my faux-secondaries, so I'm not as knowledgeable with them as I am with Sonic XD

Someone really has to tell me what's so hard about playing Sonic...
Okay, he's not easy to pick up, but he hardly is the most difficult, in a few matches I learned to use his Side and Down B's effectively, I learned his Up-B follow-ups, various approaches against projectilers, so what's the deal with him, are there some good techniques I don't know of?

Side-B cancel to use as mindgame/mixup bait
ASC cancel to use as mindgame/whatever bait.
post-throw followups `.`;

But.

Those, like any AT's, are only supplements. Like I said before, Sonic is a really "basic" character, and anyone who's good with the basics [spacing, grabbing, reading] and can adapt to a different moveset should be able to be decent with Sonic. But most people aren't, and just learn 1-2 effective character techniques and spam them lol.

@kitamerby:
Ness has PKT1 tricks. Those are cool .__.;
I could pull off some basic PKT1 tricks/combos [lol tailwhip>pkt2] after watching/playing against Simna (lol on wifi), but srsly, some of the fakeouts and weird angles that you can pull with PKT1>PKT2 require some crazy creativity on your part. It's fun

 

[Crizthakidd]

if u figure out how to be good with wario. u have my reps

 

[Browny]

Those, like any AT's, are only supplements. Like I said before, Sonic is a really "basic" character, and anyone who's good with the basics [spacing, grabbing, reading] and can adapt to a different moveset should be able to be decent with Sonic. But most people aren't, and just learn 1-2 effective character techniques and spam them lol.

This thread is over, Tenki just won it

 

[Napilopez]

Those, like any AT's, are only supplements. Like I said before, Sonic is a really "basic" character, and anyone who's good with the basics [spacing, grabbing, reading] and can adapt to a different moveset should be able to be decent with Sonic. But most people aren't, and just learn 1-2 effective character techniques and spam them lol.

Hoorah. Which shows why most people can't pick up Sonic, because they just stink at smash XD.

Kidding. But yea. I say ICs, Sonic, diddy for me personally, and PT. Whatever you're argument may be about PT, it think the big picture is that you still need to learn to use 3 chars to have ONE main.

I think snake has a curve at first, because his moveset is so odd, but then its just more second nature.

I think the reason people see Sonic as a "basic character", he is stripped of many of the properties that make other "basic" chars so great.

For example Metaknight. I personally consider him a basic character, who simply has his properties extended so that he is clearly the best character in the game to most competitive smashers. His playstyle isn't high on ATs or anything, just spacing, punishment, offensiveness, and general pwnness. Sonic is like metaknight, just... not as good lol. While meta has priority on everything, Sonic has tons of priority, but you just need to know where to find it, which most people don't know how to do. Sonic is the quickest running character, yet not enough people abuse that. You can run across FD in in less than one second, meaning a fourth of FD in 15. Thats as quick or quicker than many smashes come out. In the time it takes Dedede(what is it, like half a second?) to release his fsmash, you could like half of FD, and grab him before the hitbox even comes out. People just don't seem to do that enough. His spindashes take some acclimation to knowing when they have priority, and how to combo out of them effectively.

Like tenki said, the ATs are just tools. Playing Sonic is more about knowing the basics and applying them to using Sonic, in whatever match-up your in.

And that pikachu match ending was full of win, pikachu looked like a DBZ char O.o

 

[YagamiLight]

Ike has a surprisingly difficult learning curve, larger than most would think.

At the top it's either Sonic or Ness, for various reasons.

 

[Metro Knight]

1. ice climbers
2. PT
3. zelda/shiek (if you use both)

 

[Jigglymaster]

Diddy Kong and his banana game. Keeping pressure on pro players is something only people like NL can do.

 

[Binx]

Ice Climbers and Pokemon Trainer in that order.

 

[sHaDo26]

i would say sonic

 

[Izaw]

-_-..... Link.