Character Competitive Impressions

[Conda]

Smash has never completely revamped a character. It values consistency. (See: Ganondorf) Mewtwo having the same moveset is a VERY safe assumption, plus it's less work.

As for Teleport, Pika still has Skull Bash despite only learning the move in gen 1.

Bowser and Charizard are quite different, as is DeDeDe. Let's not forget about The CRAPTON of character revamps Brawl did (fox, luigi, falco, etc).

 

[American JEDI]

Nothing new here guys, but it's definitely worth repeating...

• Pikachu is an--all around--fast character.
• Pikachu's fastest move is Quick Attack (also one of the fastest moves in the ENTIRE roster).
• Taking full advantage, one should use QA as a means for traveling the stage as often as possible (boosting Pikachu's already speedy agenda).
• Using QA a lot improves fluidity as one becomes well acquainted with theintricacies and parameters of the move.
• Fluid, fast, and intentional movement "evolves" (no pun intended) into themastery of exceptional mind games.
• Mind games are--in my opinion--the bread and butter of EVERY fighting game (especially Smash Bros., which lends itself to the "freedom of movement" unlike any other fighter out there).
• Meaning that we--Pikachu mains--have a wonderfully-crafted, speed machine at our disposal (which has all the potential of climbing to the top in this latest installment of the Smash Bros. franchise).

It's like my piano instructor always says: "repetition, Repetition, REPETITION!!!"
A solid QA game is key to any serious Pikachu main (safe move [when used appropriately] and tons of followup options).

 

[Spinosaurus]

Bowser and Charizard are quite different, as is DeDeDe. Let's not forget about The CRAPTON of character revamps Brawl did (fox, luigi, falco, etc).

When I say revamp I meant a complete moveset change. None of these got changes that major, despite the complete difference in playstyle. They still technically have the same moveset that they always had.

I'm expecting Mewtwo to get a similar treatment.

 

[HeavyLobster]

When I say revamp I meant a complete moveset change. None of these got changes that major, despite the complete difference in playstyle. They still technically have the same moveset that they always had.

I'm expecting Mewtwo to get a similar treatment.

It's not unheard of for a character to get one, but usually no more, special changed. I could see Disable possibly getting changed, but anything more than that seems unlikely. Mewtwo isn't going to be radically different compared to Melee in that respect, but some aspects of the character(weight/mobility parameters) could be favorably tweaked, as these in combination with his large hitbox are currently his biggest problem.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

When I say revamp I meant a complete moveset change. None of these got changes that major, despite the complete difference in playstyle. They still technically have the same moveset that they always had.

I'm expecting Mewtwo to get a similar treatment.

I could see them at least adding some weight to Mewtwo, getting rid of Confusion and Disable (or at least one of those two moves).

What I'm looking forward to, is seeing how much of a nightmare his throws are if they scale to be like anything they were in Melee. And you all think Ness's Bthrow is bad, just wait until Mewtwo's Uthrow returns.

 

[mimgrim]

A glitch for permanent lightweight with Palutena? I haven't heard of such a glitch. There is a glitch to use Lightweight when it's in cooldown, but it wears off and has to be re-applied which requires going to a platform. The way it works is that you interrupt dropping through a platform with using Lightweight. The game's input leniency notices that you didn't "really" want to drop through since you hit B soon after hitting down, but for some reason, that input leniency case doesn't check if Lightweight is in cooldown and just lets you use it again. This is actually a really picky input (so it's obnoxious for the Palutena to do repeatedly), and the advantage is honestly fairly mild (I'm really not sold that even with this Lightweight is better than having a counter to be honest).

FYI the glitch works in the regular Lightweight state as well (not just cooldown) but just resets the timer, doesn't actually extend it. It's also a very easy input once you get the timing down (which isn't hard). Also, the only reason to really use Counter is for Super Speed synergy but LW (they cover each others cooldowns) has it's own use of SS synergy that is just as good the thing with Counter though is that it sucks otherwise, one of the worst counters in the game. I also can't comprehend how a significant boost in mobility is just a mild advantage. Sure, the glitch is def overrated by some but not for the reasons you listed. LW is a rather laggy move when inputted and if you do it constantly during a match you will be punished a lot, you only want to use it when you have control/advantage.

 

[DavemanCozy]

There's no indication that Mewtwo will keep any of its moves, or even its animations, so I think it's a bit futile to speculate. Heck, Teleport hasn't been a Mewtwo technique since Gold/Silver/Crystal so even that might disappear.

However, I'm going to go against what I just said anyway and assume that Mewtwo will remain as a throw-based powerhouse. If Mewtwo ends up with both a Ness-class back throw (Mewtwo's will likely less powerful) and a ROB-class up throw (Mewtwo's will probably be #1 just like Melee), in a less combo-heavy game that could be an incredibly big deal.

Actually, his B-throw was stronger than Ness's in Melee. You never know.

It really wasn't the nature of Melee that made him bad. He actually had some really solid combos (d-throw to set up, U-throw for setting up fastfallers) and pretty good follow ups from them. What made him so bad in Melee were his bad defensive options, ranging from awful techs (some of the slowest tech rolls in the game) to a poorly sized shield. This combined with the fact that he was slow, light and big made him easy to shield-stab, bait and approach. It also doesn't help that Peach, Marth, and Sheik were all faster AND outranged him in that game.

I'm sure this won't be the case when he's released, or at least I hope it's not and remain very doubtful they'll give him a poor shield when they fixed G&W's already.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Actually, his B-throw was stronger than Ness's in Melee. You never know.

Speaking of good B-Throws, my character used to have one in Melee (it was like, 3rd or 2nd strongest in the entire game.)

Also someone (I think Radical Larry I guess?) asking why people think Fox is good? Well he builds damage really fast as mentioned, but killing with Fox also isn't too hard. Generally all you have to do is trap your opponents. Forcing them to land or capitalizing on easy mistakes with one of Fox's strong aerials (Uair, Bair) or USmashing/trapping their landing all work really well and let Fox take stocks easy because of his run speed and ability to whittle a character's options on landing. He has SO MANY WAYS to force advantageous positioning in that regard, which mitigates his lack of explosive kill potential greatly IMO.

Yeah he's great.

Side note if Mewtwo keeps his godlike Melee Dtilt we're all screwed if they fix up his faulty options LOL. That Dtilt was so good

 

[Djent]

Lightweight is basically an install super with some sensible drawbacks to keep it from being completely busted. The refresh glitch is actually overrated since you're only going to get to do it after a kill (which is admittedly still nice).

 

[Nobie]

Actually, his B-throw was stronger than Ness's in Melee. You never know.

It really wasn't the nature of Melee that made him bad. He actually had some really solid combos (d-throw to set up, U-throw for setting up fastfallers) and pretty good follow ups from them. What made him so bad in Melee were his bad defensive options, ranging from awful techs (some of the slowest tech rolls in the game) to a poorly sized shield. This combined with the fact that he was slow, light and big made him easy to shield-stab, bait and approach. It also doesn't help that Peach, Marth, and Sheik were all faster AND outranged him in that game.

I'm sure this won't be the case when he's released, or at least I hope it's not and remain very doubtful they'll give him a poor shield when they fixed G&W's already.

I thought it was a situation where Mewtwo's started off stronger, but Ness's back throw scaled more quickly? I recall something like that, but I might be wrong.

I wonder if Mewtwo's new proportions will help or hurt it.

 

[warionumbah2]

Is all hope lost for Marth? Is his only crippling weakness the length endlag on his moves? Poor guy, he's so fun but it seems he's not worth bothering with and will take more work than most other characters, and the numbers support those feels.

How good Is his MU against the top (the only characters that actually matter MU wise)? Going with what I read he does pretty bad. He got nerfed worse than any other character.

 

[Emblem Lord]

As far as customs go, any Marcina that runs Crescent Slash should just kill themselves.

Dolphin Jump or GTFO.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Yeah, I do not see why people say Fox is good; he racks up damage well, yes, but he has very, very little KO options, and very, very weak attacks in terms of knockback. He has the weakest specials in the game and some of the weakest normals as well, but I guess we can attribute his speed and capability of racking damage fast, as well as his U-Smash being powerful still, that he's good. However, Fox is nowhere near the top, because you need to hit with the tilt of U-Smash for it to KO around 110%.

U-smash isn't hard to land as long as you're not predictable fishing it, especially considering that jab 1 -> jab 2 -> U-smash flows nicely with most of the cast (different %s for everyone, of course). If the opponent is shielding a lot because they except it, Fox can run up and grab, or even just run past their shields to condition them to not use it. Once the opponent stops, running U-smash let's him go in and KO (U-smash comes out on frame 8, same as Rosalina's).

You don't always have to KO with U-smash as Fox either. D-smash is viable against those with poor-mediocre recoveries, as it sends them straight forward. B-air comes out fast (frame 9 iirc) and you can use Fox's falling speed to cross up opponents: even if they shield, B-air has shieldstun to make it safe unless powershielded, and it also autocancels. And finally, U-air is still powerful to get KO's, and can be set up from a U-tilt (Fox has the fastest U-tilt at frame 3, tied with ZSS), Dash Attack (lasts from frame 4 -> frame 19, punishes most spot-dodges and rolls), or from a Side-B Illusion (unconventional, but SH Side-B works slightly better now that the landing lag was reduced).

Fox's weaknesses aren't his specials: although his side-b is the only good one, they don't compromise his game plan. All the other special moves merely assist his game plan: Blaster forces reactions and discourages running away from Fox (you just have to be less trigger happy now), Up-B is for pure recovery, and Down-B is for discouraging heavy projectile use and escaping juggles.

Fox's true weakness is when it comes to edgeguarding / gimping: the only safe option he has is N-air offstage. The others (B-air stage spikes, Illusion plays, F-air spikes) are all either difficult to do or require a good read, and they put you in bad positions if you miss them.

 

[Terotrous]

There's been a million posts since Friday and I'm busy so I'm just going to comment on this and then move on to new stuff.

Post-Apex update of my outlook:

My List: (1v1, no customs, ordered within each level)








My List: (1v1, customs, ordered within each level--each level relative to the above)

I am almost 100% on board with your customs-off tierlist. However, I definitely think Kirby should move down one, probably swapping with Marth. Kirby is also clearly quite a lot better with Customs on (Upper Cutter is a huge recovery and KO power boost), perhaps enough to move up one.

I am still sceptical about Olimar, though. There is no way you can count Dabuz's second place finish as a second-place for Olimar, Dabuz played like 99% Rosalina, only bringing out Olimar for specific matchups. I think he is a character who has some important good matchups (doing decent vs Diddy is an asset to anyone, but I doubt that matchup is any better than even) while not being especially impressive across the board.

I'm also still not convinced about Customs Off Charizard. Is there any good match footage of Charizard that demonstrates some of the things you've been talking about with him?

 

[Shaya]

Is all hope lost for Marth? Is his only crippling weakness the length endlag on his moves? Poor guy, he's so fun but it seems he's not worth bothering with and will take more work than most other characters, and the numbers support those feels.

I said this before the game came out (I'm sure you'd be able to find numerous posts about it), but in essence it was
"as long as Marth has safe moves on shield, he will be good no matter what".
Marth has so much lag on his moveset that he often isn't safe on hit, let alone on shield, which is just awful. I don't get why he has to suffer 30 frames of anything the opponent wants to do to him for every move he chooses, where he has no hit confirms that really lead into things (with a poor grab game).

As far as customs go, any Marcina that runs Crescent Slash should just kill themselves.

Dolphin Jump or GTFO.

We never bothered to test out crescent slash after vectoring got removed, wouldn't be surprised whatsoever if it true combos at kill percent from fthrow, haha.
But yeah, it's such a killer to his ability to recover that I just don't see it worthwhile.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Crescent Slash isn't worth it imo. Dolphin Jump allows him to hyper focus on what actually is his main strength. His superb edgeguarding.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Crescent Slash does have quite a bit of horizontal recovery power, and Marth/Lucina can drift sideways very effectively afterward. If you use it from the edge of the stage, you can fade back and grab the ledge without issue. You just can't recover too low.

Not getting into the "is it worth it anyway" debate since I don't use them but I don't think it's completely worthless.

 

[Emblem Lord]

It puts a dead zone beneath him where opponents are free to recovery low.

Unacceptable.

Also Shaya you must be trying to jab people all day or u-tilt. You shouldnt be getting punished on hit for an f-tilt or a d-tilt.

Stop jabbing son. That attack is garbage.

 

[Shaya]

Aerials, dancing blades~

 

[Emblem Lord]

Air to air that does not happen. What strange scenarios are you trying to hit aerials? You really shouldnt even doing any air to ground with Marth. Those days are over.

DB ok but DB is booty.

 

[Smog Frog]

i feel its important to note that mewtwo has 2 of the most important things one could have for smash 4, great mobility and kill throws. of course he wont have wavedashing anymore, but teleport and his air speed should suffice in smash 4. just buff his defensive options and he'll be easy top 20.

 

[Pazx]

i feel its important to note that mewtwo has 2 of the most important things one could have for smash 4, great mobility and kill throws. of course he wont have wavedashing anymore, but teleport and his air speed should suffice in smash 4. just buff his defensive options and he'll be easy top 20.

It's not like his mobility is superb, we've seen from Zelda that teleporting moves only go so far and it's very unwise to throw them out in neutral. However, going the way of 3.02 and letting him act out of his teleport would make him a scary character.

As far as customs go, any Marcina that runs Crescent Slash should just kill themselves.

Dolphin Jump or GTFO.

 

[Mr. Johan]

People used to praise Zelda being able to escape combos and strings easily because of Farore's, and Mewtwo has a rapid-fire version of that. Couple that with Sm4sh's airdodges not forcing helpless, and Mewtwo shouldn't be having too much of a problem with being juggled with his large frame.

As far changing his moveset in other ways, Sheik's Chain was turned into the Burst Grenade for no apparent reason, and Peach and Pit had some of their normals edited, so the same can still happen to Mewtwo. Let him keep Disable, since it's the only move in Smash to force shieldbreak stun immediately, so it's kinda niche and gimmicky there, and maybe turn Confusion into Psyshock/Psystrike and make it unblockable as an allusion to the moves targeting the opponent's opposite Defense rather than Special Defense as it normally would. Nice, solid defensive options, with the range and startup being the "weaknesses" to the moves.

 

[Jaguar360]

It's not like his mobility is superb, we've seen from Zelda that teleporting moves only go so far and it's very unwise to throw them out in neutral. However, going the way of 3.02 and letting him act out of his teleport would make him a scary character.

There's a difference with Mewtwo's teleport though. Unlike Zelda's, it comes out very quickly at the cost of not having a hitbox or going as far. As Smog Frog mentioned, he also has the air speed to go with it, allowing him to have great aerial mobility. Acting out of teleport would be excellent and scary though.

This is all assuming that Mewtwo's Melee moveset and attributes are kept intact for the most part of course, which is likely.

 

[Conda]

Air to air that does not happen. What strange scenarios are you trying to hit aerials? You really shouldnt even doing any air to ground with Marth. Those days are over.

DB ok but DB is booty.

So when you jump over projectiles, attacking from the air isn't a good option for anyone and doesnt help them in matchups? Aerial combat doesnt work well for some characters and aid their ability to be unpredictable and option-rich?

Losing decent air game is a big hit for marth, as is having a bad jab. Expecting a Marth to get anywhere using only ftilt and dtilt as safe options is a little hopeful. I think its a big challenge to find a way Marth can work optimally in smash 4 and we havent found it yet.

Heres a tweet I put out, getting some thoughts from top players regarding Marth:

https://twitter.com/CobbsGames/status/564118574445260800?s=17

Jtails and Dabuz chimed in

 

[Terotrous]

U-smash isn't hard to land as long as you're not predictable fishing it, especially considering that jab 1 -> jab 2 -> U-smash flows nicely with most of the cast (different %s for everyone, of course).

Nair to USmash also works if they don't tech it properly (it's a very hard tech due to the speed of Nair). There was some Fox at S@X that was doing this a lot and I totally stole it.

But yeah, as you said, Uair, Bair, and even FSmash are also viable kill moves occasionally, but really USmash is such a good move it's basically all Fox really needs.


Also, why is everyone suddenly talking about M2? Did I miss some M2 gameplay or something?

 

[Emblem Lord]

So when you jump over projectiles, attacking from the air isn't a good option for anyone and doesnt help them in matchups? Aerial combat doesnt work well for some characters and aid their ability to be unpredictable and option-rich?

Losing decent air game is a big hit for marth, as is having a bad jab. Expecting a Marth to get anywhere using only ftilt and dtilt as safe options is a little hopeful. I think its a big challenge to find a way Marth can work optimally in smash 4 and we havent found it yet.

Heres a tweet I put out, getting some thoughts from top players regarding Marth:

https://twitter.com/CobbsGames/status/564118574445260800?s=17

Jtails and Dabuz chimed in

You answered your own question.

He is limited because air to ground gets him murdered and his best moves come out on frame 8. He has no good close range options. I wasn't saying it doesn't help them. I'm saying it will get Marth obliterated because he cannot throw out a non-committing aerial like say Sheik.

Marth does not function correctly in this game. Nintendo made sure of that.

Both Dabuz and Jtails don't even think Marth is bottom tier. They think he is around lower middle. But even that is not good enough.

Also in regards to your tweet, Marth's mix-up is not scary. Getting grabbed is not threatening by him. You get put in a trap situation sure, but Marth has to be perfect with his traps vs say ZSS who has alot of options and much more room for error in her timings.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Also, why is everyone suddenly talking about M2? Did I miss some M2 gameplay or something?

Just speculation, though in which case probably doesn't belong here in this thread.

Oh well

Also, you do need more than just Usmash, tbh. Usmash is really good (the nerf KOs 10% later than Brawl, not a big deal), but sometimes it's better to bait and get your opponent while they're in the air, which is why bair and uair are important.

 

[Quickhero]

Also, why is everyone suddenly talking about M2? Did I miss some M2 gameplay or something?

No, don't worry it's just speculation based on things known from previous games. If you did miss something, this thread would have 6 pages filled in 10 minutes talking about even the tiniest things shown in the footage.

 

[Smog Frog]

we're talking about mewtwo just because we can

 

[Road Death Wheel]

As far as customs go, any Marcina that runs Crescent Slash should just kill themselves.

Dolphin Jump or GTFO.

im actually clueless on this but why? don't dolphin jump have no hit box?
nvm i read the page.

 

[Ramzy]

I didn't really wanna make a whole thread for one question so I figured I'll just ask here...

Anyway, I main Mega Man and I love every part about it. I don't think I will ever change that part of my Smash 4 career as long as it may be, but lately I've gone to more tournaments and while losing I still improve a ton each time and it's great. But when it's a tournament the point is to get as far as possible, right? I find my self often in a situation where I will face an opponent and destroy them 2-0 or I'll face a good Rosa or Sheik and it's rough and I'll get 2 stocked but refuse to change characters because Mega Man is the one I know best but the second round I'll just take 1 stock, only improving a little but losing anyways. But I'm stubborn and always pick MM again no matter how poorly I did before, even though that's basically an almost assured loss. I've thought of having a good pocket character and I really like Pikachu, ZSSamus, and Cpt Falcon but I'm not sure what to do.

TLDR; Is it truly worth investing time into a pocket that many consider to have competitive advantages for the sake of winning?

 

[Flamecircle]

I didn't really wanna make a whole thread for one question so I figured I'll just ask here...

Anyway, I main Mega Man and I love every part about it. I don't think I will ever change that part of my Smash 4 career as long as it may be, but lately I've gone to more tournaments and while losing I still improve a ton each time and it's great. But when it's a tournament the point is to get as far as possible, right? I find my self often in a situation where I will face an opponent and destroy them 2-0 or I'll face a good Rosa or Sheik and it's rough and I'll get 2 stocked but refuse to change characters because Mega Man is the one I know best but the second round I'll just take 1 stock, only improving a little but losing anyways. But I'm stubborn and always pick MM again no matter how poorly I did before, even though that's basically an almost assured loss. I've thought of having a good pocket character and I really like Pikachu, ZSSamus, and Cpt Falcon but I'm not sure what to do.

TLDR; Is it truly worth investing time into a pocket that many consider to have competitive advantages for the sake of winning?

Well, consider this. None of your pocket character ideas have a positive enough matchup with Rosa or Sheik that putting in a little practice with them will help you win, especially if your opponent mains them.

Additionally, I don't think Megaman does too poorly against those two either? Not sure. Megaman's a very strange character in that people play him very differently.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

I didn't really wanna make a whole thread for one question so I figured I'll just ask here...

Anyway, I main Mega Man and I love every part about it. I don't think I will ever change that part of my Smash 4 career as long as it may be, but lately I've gone to more tournaments and while losing I still improve a ton each time and it's great. But when it's a tournament the point is to get as far as possible, right? I find my self often in a situation where I will face an opponent and destroy them 2-0 or I'll face a good Rosa or Sheik and it's rough and I'll get 2 stocked but refuse to change characters because Mega Man is the one I know best but the second round I'll just take 1 stock, only improving a little but losing anyways. But I'm stubborn and always pick MM again no matter how poorly I did before, even though that's basically an almost assured loss. I've thought of having a good pocket character and I really like Pikachu, ZSSamus, and Cpt Falcon but I'm not sure what to do.

TLDR; Is it truly worth investing time into a pocket that many consider to have competitive advantages for the sake of winning?

it depends on what u wana do? mwin on your own terms or win for the sake of winning. self refelction is needed.

 

[deepseadiva]

TLDR; Is it truly worth investing time into a pocket that many consider to have competitive advantages for the sake of winning?

Yes absolutely yes.

If you find yourself doubtful about your character you do indeed need to do some reflection and see if you can handle certain match ups. I'll say this, not specifically about Mega Man, but about this game in general: a lot of characters cannot consistently win certain matches. Ness vs Marth in Brawl is an example of a matchup that was theoretically possible for the Ness to win, but because of the grab infinite, in practice that was always going to be a brick wall to run into in tournament. Now, thats obviously an extreme example, but Mega Man vs Rosalina is definitely something tough that will occur often. Unless you're really that confident of a player that you can consistently power through all the Rosalina's your gonna meet in bracket, I would suggest doing a personal reflection and then a really honest reality check. "Does my main need a secondary?" A lot of characters do, and there's no shame in that.

 

[Ramzy]

it depends on what u wana do? mwin on your own terms or win for the sake of winning. self refelction is needed.

Well go me I always go in as Mega Man first no matter what, but when it was an obvious loss first round and I don't want to be knocked out yet before I get to try Mega Man on the other characters in the bracket. Whatever helps me advance through bracket better whenever I face a bad situation.

Well, consider this. None of your pocket character ideas have a positive enough matchup with Rosa or Sheik that putting in a little practice with them will help you win, especially if your opponent mains them.

Additionally, I don't think Megaman does too poorly against those two either? Not sure. Megaman's a very strange character in that people play him very differently.

Ah.. well I do also like Greninja and Ness. You are right though, I should be doing better, MM really can do well but it takes so much precision and effort that I might as well use someone else who won't have as much trouble and save my energy. ;;

 

[Jaxas]

Well go me I always go in as Mega Man first no matter what, but when it was an obvious loss first round and I don't want to be knocked out yet before I get to try Mega Man on the other characters in the bracket. Whatever helps me advance through bracket better whenever I face a bad situation.



Ah.. well I do also like Greninja and Ness. You are right though, I should be doing better, MM really can do well but it takes so much precision and effort that I might as well use someone else who won't have as much trouble and save my energy. ;;

Some characters can't handle certain matchups, and that's just a fact. The gap in skill you have to have compared to your opponent can be huge (Brawl Ganon VS MK for an extreme example; technically possibly for Ganon to win but it takes so much more). There's no shame in finding what MUs your character can't handle and picking up a secondary to cover them, it's just a part of what it takes to win.

On the other hand, though, make sure before you put in the time to pick up a secondary that your character is actually the one at the disadvantage (not just lacking MU knowledge/etc), and that they don't have a way around it. Look around for advice/info/tips, put in the lab time, and then if you find it really is just a losing MU then find a character that covers the MUs that Mega Man loses.

Best of luck!

 

[thehard]

I believe that a customs on meta will encourage intelligent counterpicking (characters and stages) more than ever, seeing as how you could find yourself in a somewhat polarizing matchup Game 1. This would also give spectators the net benefit of not seeing 85% Smashville. Maybe.

 

[Thinkaman]

I believe that a customs on meta will encourage intelligent counterpicking (characters and stages) more than ever, seeing as how you could find yourself in a somewhat polarizing matchup Game 1. This would also give spectators the net benefit of not seeing 85% Smashville. Maybe.

Ehh, I'm not so sure. With rare exceptions (Timber Counter and Lightweight spring to mind), customs tend to reduce polarization rather than increase.

Polarization is usually caused by general mobility, aggressive projectiles, disjointed hitboxes, and techniques which nullify certain other actions outright.

So basically, Luma.

 

[thehard]

Ehh, I'm not so sure. With rare exceptions (Timber Counter and Lightweight spring to mind), customs tend to reduce polarization rather than increase.

Polarization is usually caused by general mobility, aggressive projectiles, disjointed hitboxes, and techniques which nullify certain other actions outright.

So basically, Luma.

Good point. I WAS mainly thinking of Timber Counter, because it being legal might also see Villager usage shoot up? So an artificial polarization increase...but nah you're right. Customs mainly serve to even out the playing field.

I mean, with customs off, there already is a smaller, grabbable Timber Counter that skews matchups, it's called バナナのかわ.