Character Competitive Impressions

[mimgrim]

I would like to point out that Palutena's Dtilt is actually useful and is on the good side, it actually isn't slow and laggy like Ftilt and Utilt are.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

50% of her moves miss but she still her nair combos and she can still do well against them since she can camp with sun salutation

Who is them?
What short character is she camping? Her moves dont miss, the hitboxes are successful until crouch/crawling comes into play then she starts missing. Her B&B to me is edgeguarding with customs but what short character has a bad recovery? Hell how many crawlers do? Luigi and...
Also most of the short characters are lethal in cqc, more so than she is.
Wot you have no range? Well then Kirby will kill you. Jiggly runs a lap on you and mk exerts superior off-stage presence. If pikmin dont go ******** Olimar has plenty of range and will likely survive your edgeguards. Villager isnt even in the same league.

Imo, WFTs stronger point is your typical heavy not for their size but the typical linear recovery that she shuts down. For this I think she'll also take out Luigi and Doc.

Shes not very potent outside of her specials and I will include her aerials. Quite a few characters can play the spacing game and dominate her.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Doc's crouch is also low enough to avoid a lot of WFT's things if we're talking hitboxes. His, Mario's and Luigi's are notable as far as Mario chars go for that.

I do think she shuts out Doc's recovery in that regard but she has to get him offstage and Doc has a nasty Bair, and with Sun Salutation being easily crouched IIRC, it's not really easy to camp him.

 

[WiiFitBurger]

Who is them?
What short character is she camping? Her moves dont miss, the hitboxes are successful until crouch/crawling comes into play then she starts missing. Her B&B to me is edgeguarding with customs but what short character has a bad recovery? Hell how many crawlers do? Luigi and...
Also most of the short characters are lethal in cqc, more so than she is.
Wot you have no range? Well then Kirby will kill you. Jiggly runs a lap on you and mk exerts superior off-stage presence. If pikmin dont go ******** Olimar has plenty of range and will likely survive your edgeguards. Villager isnt even in the same league.

Imo, WFTs stronger point is your typical heavy not for their size but the typical linear recovery that she shuts down. For this I think she'll also take out Luigi and Doc.

Shes not very potent outside of her specials and I will include her aerials. Quite a few characters can play the spacing game and dominate her.

Them is short characters like kirby jiggs etc

 

[ChronoPenguin]

She doesnt camp any of them. Maybe, maybe Olimar.
she doesnt out camp Villager or DhD who also have better cqc range and villager has better K.O power, and is far hardee to edgeguard then she likes.

Kirby,Mk and Jigglypuff can jump over your entire projectile game or crouch under it.Villager has a ton of options. While I believe a fully charged Salutation cant be crouched, any other charge/variant can. WFTs range lets Kirby actually approach, she wont contend with that.

For her edgeguard strength she isnt difficult to guard for the short characters.
Kirby - Wave cutter, copy salutation, leaping inhale Kirbycide, D-air, deep f-air/b-air
Jigglypuff - 1 back air, or a horizontal pound.
Olimar - F/bair, Side 3, maybe dizzy whistle.
Pikachu - Fair, bair, jolt + variants, meteor quick attack.
Villager - Tree, fair, bair, Lloyd rocket, pocketted projectile, dair, F-smash
G&W - Chef, turtle, bair, parachute, oil.
DHD - can, frisbee, gunner, fair, bair
MK - eh..fair, wouldnt say his options are great but his ability to pursue is.
short mii gunner - fsmash, 2 up specials, 2 neutral specials, fair, 3 side specials, reflected salutation, possible bomb drop, dair.
short mii swordsman - gale, chakram, shuriken, nair, fair,bair, dair, power thrust.
short brawler - fair, shotput, dair, deep nair/bair

deep as I dont believe some other moves get through jumbo hoop.

On the other end she struggles to guarantee a hit on any of them off stage except eh the Miis possibly DHD. Pika and G&W have to be hit deep.
That she actually lets Kirby in is a big problem. If Kirby can get in...who cant. Well heavies but again I feel thats where she picks up.

If we count crawlers, then Sheik and Greninja also come on the table. Their dtilts outrange her options.

if we want to talk regulars.
Shulk spaces her out, she cant camp monado Speed/Jump.
Pit and rob have reflectors and edgeguard her well. She can gimp R.O.B well with customs.
Paletuna/Sonic/Fox/Falco/Captain Falcon all outpace her camping and/or reflect it or even outperform it.

As I see it she is a counter pick to poor recovery, bulky and slow type characters. They either let her in, cant crouch her out, get camped or get guarded. Luigi, Zard, Doc, ness, along those lines.

 

[Conda]

Well, see, I only made as many tiers as I did because of the number of characters. I tried to make as few tiers as possible, breaking up the larger tiers almost arbitrarily just so each one was easy to digest. Doc may not be as bad as Olimar, but this list really isn't that precise.

There shouldnt be tiers. People are looking to this thread for character discussion, not tier list reordering and rating.

Anyways, WFT has potential for sure but has no attributes that can be abused to compete with the characters that do. Shes maybe too average, when it comes to her traits and strength:weakness spread, but thats a good thing if you are looking for a sole main.

 

[Bonren]

Just a few points on WFT,

I do admit, she does have a tad of a struggle hitting smaller characters. I'm pretty sure the front hit box of F tilt hits everyone, back can miss but...it is such a good anti air words cannot describe.

WFT is an interesting character, she reminds of Shulk without the range but with more obscure hit boxes. Off stage is one of the places WFT really shines, and baiting air dodges will typically lead to spike brought to you by one of the 3 moves that do so. Oh and her KO ability is good, but with deep breathing its monster.

I ubderstand why people would place her low or call her bad, but WFT will come up with time...I'm sure if it.

Also, Luigi low? Really? Bad DI vs a good luigi player from one d throw will result in a comb string at low percentages from 0%-40% in like 3 seconds! There is no throw in this game that has the same amount of hitstun that Luigis D throw has! Just one of the many many reasons why I think he's great..easily top tier IMO.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Luigi doesn't have the range, movement speed, or traction to be anywhere even close to top tier.

He got a buffed fire ball, cool. He still has the same fundamental flaws from Brawl, and his comboing ability didn't save him there. It ain't going to save him here either. Why should I be impressed with 40% in a combo that requires bad DI, when Ike can get up to 20+% in one aether (aether drive) that isn't reliant on DI?

 

[KenMeister]

Just a few points on WFT,

I do admit, she does have a tad of a struggle hitting smaller characters. I'm pretty sure the front hit box of F tilt hits everyone, back can miss but...it is such a good anti air words cannot describe.

WFT is an interesting character, she reminds of Shulk without the range but with more obscure hit boxes. Off stage is one of the places WFT really shines, and baiting air dodges will typically lead to spike brought to you by one of the 3 moves that do so. Oh and her KO ability is good, but with deep breathing its monster.

I ubderstand why people would place her low or call her bad, but WFT will come up with time...I'm sure if it.

Also, Luigi low? Really? Bad DI vs a good luigi player from one d throw will result in a comb string at low percentages from 0%-40% in like 3 seconds! There is no throw in this game that has the same amount of hitstun that Luigis D throw has! Just one of the many many reasons why I think he's great..easily top tier IMO.

It's because Luigi has the same issue he's had since 64, and it continues to hurt him even more with the Smash 4 engine....He has a reeeeally hard time getting in on almost everyone.

 

[Jaxas]

Also, Luigi low? Really? Bad DI vs a good luigi player from one d throw will result in a comb string at low percentages from 0%-40% in like 3 seconds! There is no throw in this game that has the same amount of hitstun that Luigis D throw has! Just one of the many many reasons why I think he's great..easily top tier IMO.

How does Luigi get that grab, and what happens when the opponent takes the time to figure out the DI angle that gets them not hit?
As for top tier claims, how does he stack up against Sheik/Rosa/Diddy/etc? I don't see him doing so very well at all...

 

[AvariceX]

There's so much unintuitive stuff with WFT that I'm not surprised anyone would think she's really bad until spending a lot of time with her, and even then she's only okay (but absolutely not bottom tier). You guys are getting the bad matchups right (WFT vs Villager is probably one of the worst matchups in the entire game) but you're also not giving her enough credit. It's not quite as simple as "just jump over her projectiles" when all of them can be used in the air, Sun Salutation can be charged in the air like Aura Sphere, and Header's angle can be modified to hit just about anywhere.

I see a lot of hate for her jab but let me clarify that it does not whiff on any standing character in the cast (except a few idle animations which you will never see in a real match), but it does whiff on a lot of crouching characters. It should also be noted though that the reverse hitbox of jab 1 hits the entire cast even crouching; you are supposed to spend a lot of time facing backwards with this character. Besides, who else has a jab that buries?

Her grab on the other hand does suck, and her throws are just average. Her roll-cancel grab is good at least.

Also reverse f-air is unblockable (seriously) and can be SHFF'd with very little landing lag (you are supposed to spend a lot of time facing backwards).

Admittedly her combo game kinda sucks. She has very few true combos and even fewer useful ones. Basically the only relevant combos you are going to see normally are n-air-> followup (uair or another nair).

Her recovery is not nearly as gimpable as some are claiming here. She has multiple momentum stalls, can cover her recovery with multiple projectiles, has good aerial control, has the safest air-dodge landing in the entire game (by a significant margin), and properly mashed hoops recover a lot farther than most people realize (you can drop from the ledge and execute a full Deep Breathing and still make it back). Add in customs (Jumbo Hoop) and her recovery (and on-stage game) becomes frankly pretty silly. Without customs I think she's low-mid to mid-mid (and mainly just because of a few really bad matchups, she deals with the conventional top tiers rather well), with customs she's potentially high tier just because of how dumb Jumbo Hoop is.

 

[LostinpinK]

We must keep in mind that bad characters are pretty good in this game, except maybe for Olimar and Sword Fighter (but I don't have much experience with them).
There probably won't be 8-11 unviable characters like in brawl. We won't have Ganondorf-bad characters. Each time we discuss someone who isn't Olimar and Sword Fighter, there is always someone who will claim that this character is, in fact, mid tier. I think that Low Tier characters this time will probably be pretty good. So WFT may be low tier, not because she's fundamentally bad, but because most of the others are better.
When we say "bottom", we understand characters as bad as Brawl Link / Zelda / Ganon, but in this game the worst characters might be as good as Brawl Luigi.

 

[Conda]

Keep in mind, being less viable at tournaments has nothing to do with if you can combo or kill, or whatnot - it has to do with if you can combo and kill and whatnot versus amazing players who have fought your character hundreds of times.

Its why For Glory is not always a good indication of character viability at tournaments all the time.

Things like dash attack approaches (for example) may work well there, but they won't against better players. So if the only way your character can reliably approach is via dash attack, you will see a marked reduction in your ability to approach at higher levels of play. Thus your character's meta potential doesn't lie in approaching ability, but perhaps defensive play.


The idea of the metagame is, in a nutshell, what characters perform best when played optimally by the best players to their full extent. It is a hypothetical, like "a room of monkeys typing random letters on typewriters for INFINITY will eventually write all of shakespeare's works correctly." Thats the idea of metagame and tiers though - results via optimal play.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I do think it's important to note that it will never be Brawl Ganondorf/Melee Kirby bad for anyone on this roster at this moment exactly (could change)

 

[Thinkaman]

Yeah, a bad character in Smash 4 means something very different from a bad character in Melee/Brawl.

 

[KenMeister]

Keep in mind, being less viable at tournaments has nothing to do with if you can combo or kill, or whatnot - it has to do with if you can combo and kill and whatnot versus amazing players who have fought your character hundreds of times.

The idea of the metagame is, in a nutshell, what characters perform best when played optimally by the best players to their full extent. It is a hypothetical, like "a room of monkeys typing random letters on typewriters for INFINITY will eventually write all of shakespeare's works correctly." Thats the idea of metagame and tiers though - results via optimal play.

I like to believe it falls under this category:
- How well an opponent can approach (projectiles, hitboxes, mobility, etc.)
- Their ability to react under pressure (fast low-lag moves, range, good anti-air options, good zoning tools)
- How good their risk/reward options are (the reason Ganon was good in Melee was despite his mobility, he can easily end a stock in 3 hits with some good reads (and had decently fast moves), meanwhile characters who have a hard time getting in (like Luigi) don't get enough reward out of their combo game from having to endure the hassle of getting in before having to reset to neutral again)

 

[ChronoPenguin]

There's so much unintuitive stuff with WFT that I'm not surprised anyone would think she's really bad until spending a lot of time with her, and even then she's only okay (but absolutely not bottom tier). You guys are getting the bad matchups right (WFT vs Villager is probably one of the worst matchups in the entire game) but you're also not giving her enough credit. It's not quite as simple as "just jump over her projectiles" when all of them can be used in the air, Sun Salutation can be charged in the air like Aura Sphere, and Header's angle can be modified to hit just about anywhere.

I see a lot of hate for her jab but let me clarify that it does not whiff on any standing character in the cast (except a few idle animations which you will never see in a real match), but it does whiff on a lot of crouching characters. It should also be noted though that the reverse hitbox of jab 1 hits the entire cast even crouching; you are supposed to spend a lot of time facing backwards with this character. Besides, who else has a jab that buries?

Her grab on the other hand does suck, and her throws are just average. Her roll-cancel grab is good at least.

Also reverse f-air is unblockable (seriously) and can be SHFF'd with very little landing lag (you are supposed to spend a lot of time facing backwards).

Admittedly her combo game kinda sucks. She has very few true combos and even fewer useful ones. Basically the only relevant combos you are going to see normally are n-air-> followup (uair or another nair).

Her recovery is not nearly as gimpable as some are claiming here. She has multiple momentum stalls, can cover her recovery with multiple projectiles, has good aerial control, has the safest air-dodge landing in the entire game (by a significant margin), and properly mashed hoops recover a lot farther than most people realize (you can drop from the ledge and execute a full Deep Breathing and still make it back). Add in customs (Jumbo Hoop) and her recovery (and on-stage game) becomes frankly pretty silly. Without customs I think she's low-mid to mid-mid (and mainly just because of a few really bad matchups, she deals with the conventional top tiers rather well), with customs she's potentially high tier just because of how dumb Jumbo Hoop is.

but it is gimpable.
Hoop 1 and 3 have great vertical, 1 is good horizontal as well, but the hitbox and trajectory are on an exploitable level similar to Bowser/DK despite travelling greater vert. Jumbo hoop has the benefit of being the length of her fsmash so it prevents a few aerials. That and it recoverimg from the blast zone.
Mind you thats relative to small characters that were discussed.
Sweeping sun salutation is a hilarious edgeguard. The 3 shorties with multi jumps will straight jump over her proj and crouch. Headers arent pn a frequency you cant shield.

Personally I dont say shes bad but I feel she is a counterpick character whos overall sigmificance depends on where her ideal mstchups are in the meta. She doesnt have that general level of efficiency.

A meta isnt simply characters played optimally @ Conda . How it develops is partially dependent on the balance philosophy that went in the game. Afterall even if Sheik beat 80% of the roster becoming the common pick if Oli beats Sheik he as a counter to the meta gets engrained into it until counter-mar picks force him back out of the meta. Though again this depends on how MUs work and player adoption of characters. I do wonder how the scene would look with blind picks.

On subject of bad.
Olimar is bad insofar as his AI isnt acceptable, he probably has solid MUs otherwise.

Swordsmans aerial game has more range/disjoints then Link/Tlink, which speaks to his spacing game, and his projectiles are still decent. He just feels redundant because of the Links existing. If anything Id say his spacing and punishment options are greater than the links. He has worse long range zoning and cant open opposition up as well nor punish as hard without a substantial risk given his lag. Finally he loses the spacing benefits if he is small, and is quite suspectible to being punished otherwise.

 

[AvariceX]

but it is gimpable.
Hoop 1 and 3 have great vertical, 1 is good horizontal as well, but the hitbox and trajectory are on an exploitable level similar to Bowser/DK despite travelling greater vert. Jumbo hoop has the benefit of being the length of her fsmash so it prevents a few aerials. That and it recoverimg from the blast zone.
Mind you thats relative to small characters that were discussed.
Sweeping sun salutation is a hilarious edgeguard. The 3 shorties with multi jumps will straight jump over her proj and crouch. Headers arent pn a frequency you cant shield.

Personally I dont say shes bad but I feel she is a counterpick character whos overall sigmificance depends on where her ideal mstchups are in the meta. She doesnt have that general level of efficiency.

On the gimping I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I think I can remember being gimped twice ever as WFT and until it happens more I probably won't be convinced (that doesn't mean it's not possible). I made no mention of Sweeping SS, although it is certainly useful. Personally I think Enriched SS (starts big, charges to small but very fast) is her best as it lets her spam an enormous projectile with no required charge. Small characters are definitely her bane (especially Villager), no argument here. As I said she has a few really bad matchups but for the most part her matchups are pretty even with some solid advantages (basically the bigger the target the better she becomes, she is even very good against Rosalina).

I don't think that's a character who is relegated to a counterpick; that's a character who can be a main but requires their own counterpick for problem matchups. Like Brawl ROB in that regard perhaps.

 

[oldkingcroz]

So somebody posted "what about Link" a few pages back. Here are my thoughts on him. I've played him a bit, but don't consider myself extremely skilled with him. And I mainly have experience with vanilla Link. I hear good things about a few of his custom moves. His power bow, especially.

Some of his moves have a really long start up time. His sprint A, although cool out of context, is really tricky to land on fast characters. People are lenient with their shield against Link, and if he mistimes a Sprint A/ Smash Attack/ boomerang he allows his opponent to either shield it or beat him to the attack. This makes killing as Link touher than it sounds. Up Smashes become really predictable at higher enemy percents, because that is his move reliable kill move.

These moves really contrast his nair, fair, and bair, which all have really short startup and minimal post move lagg (both in the air and on the ground). He's a tricky character to use, in the sense that his moves are so diverse, much like Villager.

Jabbing is pretty good. I've found it is the most reliable move in attacking people that are stuck in a returning boomerang. Up B or Up smash are also good options, but the fight looses it's momentum, and your opponent may break out of an up smash (depending on their size, vectoring, damage percent, etc). Jabbing is also pretty good at close range. And being able to time each hit at different times is an interesting tactic.

Bombs and arrows are great for building up damage and good for off stage play. No problems here. F Tilt is also pretty good. But dealing damage is not really Link's problem.

I mainly have trouble versing people with lightning quick projectiles, reflectors, and multi hit moves (combinations of the above are disastrous). Falco, Fox, Sheik, and ROB are probably the best physical counters for him. Getting fast projectile (laser/needles) hits in while Link is readying his slow projectiles is particularly annoying and very easy for the 4 characters above (an it puts Link in a bad spot to be). I also think that Ness is good against Link, mainly because of the angle his PK Fire travels at in the air, his fall speed/brief invincibility during a B UP, and his reflector bat. They pretty much destroy Link's [predictable] projectile->projectile->up smash game. So you really have to switch things up against him. In fact, switch things up against everyone. Be unpredictable.

 

[sunset_raven]

Don't you feel WFT struggles against DHD too? Villager's fAir and bAir certainly are faster, but the can is a pain to work around, disc can harass, and DHD can resort to gunman for protection.

Btw, DHD's upB custom has a hitbox while recovering that couls prove useful.

 

[AvariceX]

Yes, DHD is a bad matchup for WFT, probably her second-worst after Villager. Kirby and Puff are bad too but can't ignore WFT's projectiles as well as DHD and Villager. MK doesn't seem that bad for WFT in my experience, but it's gonna be a while before we see any truly great MK's in this game.

For what it's worth I have no stock in WFT being good or bad and I have no attachment to the character (other than finding her hilarious). I'm likely switching to Greninja or Palutena when Smash U comes out. I just think WFT isn't that bad.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

DhD is part of the short crew with decent recov.

large characters she likes
slow characters who cant approach her projectile game well she likes
poor/linear/horizontal recoveries she can (and will) intercept she likes

I know that sounds kind of "who doesnt like that" but she excels in dealing with those.

I still say counterpick unless the top picks of the meta become who she wants she'll be forced out which is why I agree with Shayas placing. I dunno I say her match ups will be binary and I dont see many 5:5s.
Rosaluma is heading towards a slow decline and Fox is probably going to gain following not lose it, same with Sheik, puff is almost certainly going to get big and WFT cant thrive in that playing field. She is certainly interesting but meh. I played Smite (moba)...a lot, and there were characters slept on and characters that worked when X wasnt in play. There is too much X characters for WFT if it was 1-4 no biggie, its probably more then 10 though.

 

[Jaxas]

So what are everybody's thoughts on Peach? I feel like I've heard a lot of talk about how she has huge potential/is likely upper-high tier at worst, on top of being good against Rosalina, but I haven't seen her much in tournament and we rarely talk about her.

Honestly she's kind of like Puff in that regard, but I understand that puff just really needs a C-stick.

What's so amazing about Peach, and why haven't we seen many?

 

[Lenus Altair]

So what are everybody's thoughts on Peach? I feel like I've heard a lot of talk about how she has huge potential/is likely upper-high tier at worst, on top of being good against Rosalina, but I haven't seen her much in tournament and we rarely talk about her.

Honestly she's kind of like Puff in that regard, but I understand that puff just really needs a C-stick.

What's so amazing about Peach, and why haven't we seen many?

Probably because she's really technical and impeded by 3DS controls, much like Puff and Palutena. As to what's amazing about her, I can't say myself, but at a glance she seems an overall stronger character then she was in brawl, and she was a respectable character in brawl to begin with.

 

[Zero Suit Senpai]

What's so amazing about Peach, and why haven't we seen many?

Not am amazing player or anything, but offering my 2 cents as someone who has played a lot of Peach this time around.

Peach has extremely strong aerials, incredibly low kill percentages, and situational but incredibly damaging turnip shenanigans (0-deaths, 0-80s, etc). Dthrow -> bair works really well at low percentages and does like 20% with a pummel. Nair is godly fast and can be done out of airdodge. Fair kills super low and doesn't stale if she's floating. Dair is great for pressure and has surprising priority against anti-airs. Her usmash sweetspot is a godly anti-air and kills at around 75% on lighter characters like Rosalina.

All of this plus turnip lag canceling making her laggier aerials (fair) quite safe.

We probably aren't seeing so many because she's technical and also she's limited by the 3DS, where you cannot, for example, input dair and float forward at the same time (which you could if you had a c-stick). In addition, her downthrow turnip combos are harder to do without a c-stick, because they involve moving backwards and throwing downwards almost simultaneously, making the execution of the combos rather difficult with the circle pad.

 

[Terotrous]

The Mii Brawler is kind of ridiculous. It's small, fast, and hits HARD. I can't think of any other character in this game with that combination other than Little Mac, but we all know about Little Mac's limitations. The Brawler's recovery range is not great but it's manageable. And he has an extremely useful spacing projectile.

I really like Brawler. IMO, he's the character Little Mac should have been. Generally the same idea with his attacks but he's a far more legitimate character (can recover, aerials not useless, not full of crazy armor and safeness on his grounded normals, etc).

He's definitely still a bit of a glass cannon character, as he hits extremely hard but his survivability isn't great. Also, while the projectile is decent, I really like the charge punch. Once again, it's basically KO punch but not stupid. It has some armor during the punch, too.

Now is where we be thankful it's not Sonic Boom Sonic with the longer legs lmfao. Could you imagine?

Sonic Boom Sonic can't maintain his spindash and his attacks have tons of lag. He'd be weaker for sure.

I do think it's important to note that it will never be Brawl Ganondorf/Melee Kirby bad for anyone on this roster at this moment exactly (could change)

Honestly, I think Olimar might actually be that bad. When you try to do moves and sometimes they just randomly don't come out because your Pikmin were busy taking a nap, that's a pretty serious problem.

I guess it is accurate to the game though. "Guys! Stop attacking those nectar eggs! Snagret! Snagret!"
*Pikmin continue attacking the damn eggs*

 

[ParanoidDrone]

All of this plus turnip lag canceling making her laggier aerials (fair) quite safe.

Isn't that gone in the Wii U/3DS update?

 

[Jaxas]

Not am amazing player or anything, but offering my 2 cents as someone who has played a lot of Peach this time around.

Peach has extremely strong aerials, incredibly low kill percentages, and situational but incredibly damaging turnip shenanigans (0-deaths, 0-80s, etc). Dthrow -> bair works really well at low percentages and does like 20% with a pummel. Nair is godly fast and can be done out of airdodge. Fair kills super low and doesn't stale if she's floating. Dair is great for pressure and has surprising priority against anti-airs. Her usmash sweetspot is a godly anti-air and kills at around 75% on lighter characters like Rosalina.

All of this plus turnip lag canceling making her laggier aerials (fair) quite safe.

We probably aren't seeing so many because she's technical and also she's limited by the 3DS, where you cannot, for example, input dair and float forward at the same time (which you could if you had a c-stick). In addition, her downthrow turnip combos are harder to do without a c-stick, because they involve moving backwards and throwing downwards almost simultaneously, making the execution of the combos rather difficult with the circle pad.

All right, that's about what I'd figured. I'm honestly looking into picking her up as a secondary eventually because she looks really fun, but I haven't played as her enough to get a really solid idea of what makes her so good. Thanks!

 

[Zero Suit Senpai]

Isn't that gone in the Wii U/3DS update?

I'm considering it unconfirmed for now because I heard that from a person who also said rush cancelling is gone. But now it is apparently not. But forgive me if my information is incorrect.

Losing TLC would be a bit bad for Peach, for sure. But I still think she'd be a good character.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Sonic Boom Sonic can't maintain his spindash and his attacks have tons of lag. He'd be weaker for sure.

But he would have a tether grab though

 

[Terotrous]

But he would have a tether grab though

Sonic would be much weaker with a tether grab IMO. He has no trouble getting in close enough to grab, and the speed of his grab makes the mixup much scarier. Zair might be nice though.

 

[Lenus Altair]

Well, her Fair doesn't have to take up the dual roll of damage racker and her only good best kill move that it was in brawl. She has other options now, on top of it not going stale (but don't be surprised if that gets patched.)

 

[TTTTTsd]

Sonic would be much weaker with a tether grab IMO. He has no trouble getting in close enough to grab, and the speed of his grab makes the mixup much scarier. Zair might be nice though.

Well if it's like Sonic Boom he'd have a regrab infinite combo.

 

[Terotrous]

Well, her Fair doesn't have to take up the dual roll of damage racker and her only good best kill move that it was in brawl. She has other options now, on top of it not going stale (but don't be surprised if that gets patched.)

Didn't someone confirm that her moves staled properly in the Wii U version? I recall seeing a long list of patch changes from someone, but it's possible I might have just dreamt it.

 

[Jaxas]

Didn't someone confirm that her moves staled properly in the Wii U version? I recall seeing a long list of patch changes from someone, but it's possible I might have just dreamt it.

I hope not, I rather like that effect...
It would make sense, though.

If that is the case, and the Turnip Lag Cancel (as well as the Ledge-Turnips, according to some reports I've seen) how much is that going to hurt her? I feel like that could be rather bad...

Also, I do hope that Nintendo tries to buff with patches more than nerf; do we know of any actual buffs so far in 1.04/Wii U?

 

[GalaxyWaffles]

If you don't have an understanding of a character, any valuable information to give or even use them, I feel like you really shouldn't be giving your opinion on them.. But that's just me.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Peach is broke as **** in this game honestly, and her kill power is through the roof. Literally every time I play as/against her my stuff kills like 50% earlier than Id ever expect it to and she's getting kills consistently at like 90% with fair/fsmash/usmash, its crazy.

 

[The Real Gamer]

If you don't have an understanding of a character, any valuable information to give or even use them, I feel like you really shouldn't be giving your opinion on them.. But that's just me.

An impression is an impression regardless of how factual it actually is.

You can usually tell who actually knows what they're talking about in regards to their character, so this is a non-issue.

 

[WiiFitBurger]

Actually wii fit trainer has many combos

Nair>ftilt>header
Uthrow>uair>fair
Utilt>utilt>uair
Jab combo>dtilt
Jab combo>ftilt
Backhit ftilt 3x>nair>uair

 

[popsofctown]

How come people don't talk about Robot much?

I've had a lovehate relationship with the bot since i found out he was in Brawl and though it was a waste of a slot. He seems to retain a defensive playstyle in Smash 4, but I find it remarkable that his shield seems horrible with the shieldstun and push increases and so it's all about his great spotdodge.

He seems to outcamp a lot of the cast, but sometimes I feel like even when I bring my opponents into me with that camping I can't do as much as I can with a different camper. Fsmash is laggy, spotdodge down smash is great but a low payoff. Aerials are little help, grabs don't get much follow up (but he has a kill grab, which is rare and relevant, especially for a defensive character I think).

I think this guy will have some pretty polar matchups but be mid.