Character Competitive Impressions

[Supermodel From Paris]

Peach is broke as **** in this game honestly, and her kill power is through the roof. Literally every time I play as/against her my stuff kills like 50% earlier than Id ever expect it to and she's getting kills consistently at like 90% with fair/fsmash/usmash, its crazy.

Yeah Peach is 1000% a top tier character right now, there is no question. Even if they make her float aerials stale, she'll be better than fine.

 

[A2ZOMG]

How come people don't talk about Robot much?

I've had a lovehate relationship with the bot since i found out he was in Brawl and though it was a waste of a slot. He seems to retain a defensive playstyle in Smash 4, but I find it remarkable that his shield seems horrible with the shieldstun and push increases and so it's all about his great spotdodge.

He seems to outcamp a lot of the cast, but sometimes I feel like even when I bring my opponents into me with that camping I can't do as much as I can with a different camper. Fsmash is laggy, spotdodge down smash is great but a low payoff. Aerials are little help, grabs don't get much follow up (but he has a kill grab, which is rare and relevant, especially for a defensive character I think).

I think this guy will have some pretty polar matchups but be mid.

Well, you can listen to me reiterate that I believe he's overhyped and not very good in this game.

ROB in Brawl revolved around BROKENLY good tilts, Gyro shenanigans, and 0-counterplay edgetrapping to make up for his faults as a character including large size, floaty, punishable recovery noticeable blindspots, and poor damage. Basically nobody beat ROB in neutral in Brawl, which gave him many opportunities to seize control of a game with his Gyro glide toss shenanigans, and it was so difficult to get up from the edge against ROB that it made up for his other deficiencies in captializing on negative states. To give an idea how extreme ROB's strengths were in Brawl, even Metaknight had to actually respect ROB in neutral, just he crapped on ROB completely when he got in.

Smash 4 ROB with removal of glide tossing and nerfs to F-tilt and changes to edge mechanics basically has none of the above advantages that actually made him good previously, and he still has mostly terrible reward outside of buffs to lasers and U-smash somewhat improving ROB's capitalization game. He still is not good at trapping airdodges due to his high jumps and floaty physics, and he's not good at edgeguarding low recoveries due to his blindspots. So in this game, he's a character with average neutral, mostly below average positive state, and very signfiicantly below average negative state.

So thus, he's a bad character compared to most of the cast.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Olimar is going to show more of what he's capable in the Wii U version for sure. I went to Toronto last weekend, and the Wii U version seems to have fixed the AI of the Pikmin. Right now, what really messes up Olimar is how Pikmin don't follow you around the stage properly. In the Wii U version though, they no longer de-synch from Olimar just by moving around the stage, and therefore your air attacks don't get messed up just because your Pikmin wasn't near you.

He probably won't be top tier, but at least he won't be getting held back by bad AI.

Also, what AvariceX speaks of is true in regards to Wii Fit Trainer's F-air: the back hitbox (her extended foot behind her) literally can't be blocked. It actually hits through shields. I would hardly call a character with something like that low tier.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

ROB is the definition of average in this game imo.

 

[DanGR]

Also, what AvariceX speaks of is true in regards to Wii Fit Trainer's F-air: the back hitbox (her extended foot behind her) literally can't be blocked. It actually hits through shields. I would hardly call a character with something like that low tier.

What if said character is rarely ever in a position to use that unblockable hitbox?

 

[ThatLunaticFeline]

ROB is the definition of average in this game imo.

I'd argue against that. He has the best earlygame in Smash 4, I believe, because uncharged Gyro onto the middle of the stage forces opponents to walk up slowly and grab it, dash attack to grab it, or jump over it, all of which can be punished with a dash attack or laser from ROB. Dash attack then combos into two fairs and if you grab the gyro with that attack, puts them near the edge of the stage where down-smash reigns supreme.

Average, I'd say, goes to characters like Wario, Dedede, Lucina and Megaman.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Wario is really ****ing stupid. He's far from average.

 

[ZHMT]

Shield drop is 7 frames? I thought it was 14melee, 7brawl, and 10sm4sh? I'm probably wrong, but figured I'd check.
So the best way to punish is by spotdodging it, or just not being in the area, right? Don't purposefully block it to transfer to a punish? I'll keep that in mind, thanks

Wait, are shield drops 7 frames? I thought it was 10 as well which is odd, my testing must have been off. Shaya you are talking about ssb4 right? Regarding 7 frame drop.

 

[Sinister Slush]

So dabuz is dropping Rosalina for the next good character now since she got luma nerfed, right?

 

[Ticker]

So dabuz is dropping Rosalina for the next good character now since she got luma nerfed, right?

Classic Dabuz.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Wario is really ****ing stupid. He's far from average.

How so? He's not often discussed at all (even in his own section :<) so I'd appreciate reading impressions on him.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Olimar is going to show more of what he's capable in the Wii U version for sure. I went to Toronto last weekend, and the Wii U version seems to have fixed the AI of the Pikmin. Right now, what really messes up Olimar is how Pikmin don't follow you around the stage properly. In the Wii U version though, they no longer de-synch from Olimar just by moving around the stage, and therefore your air attacks don't get messed up just because your Pikmin wasn't near you.

He probably won't be top tier, but at least he won't be getting held back by bad AI.

Also, what AvariceX speaks of is true in regards to Wii Fit Trainer's F-air: the back hitbox (her extended foot behind her) literally can't be blocked. It actually hits through shields. I would hardly call a character with something like that low tier.

Was that at York?

 

[Ffamran]

If you don't have an understanding of a character, any valuable information to give or even use them, I feel like you really shouldn't be giving your opinion on them.. But that's just me.

I think it's a good idea to give out your opinions on a character so people can compare and contrast, but you shouldn't shove that idea down people's throats.

It's like asking "a stupid question" or answering with the wrong question and being corrected nicely. So, let's say I said that I think Marth is a POS in this game. Well, that's not going to be received nicely and people would think I'm a troll, but if I said that Marth is underwhelming, feels like he can't stand up to nobody, and lacks tools to kill effectively, that might be taken easier and I could be corrected and learn more about Marth.

Anyway, do a lot of people think Falco really that bad? Like, Brawl Ganondorf and Melee Pichu bad? I didn't play as him much in Brawl and was just a kid playing Melee, but in SSB4, it's like playing a new character so I don't have much to look back on compared to Ike or Fox who changed slightly.

So, Falco and many others can't short hop projectiles and many characters' projectiles were nerfed. He has a much slower Dair that resembles pretty much everyone's Dairs who can meteor - we either have stall and falls or wind-ups. Up Smash is changed, Side Smash has a longer start-up, and his Bair is just Wolf's Bair. Everything else is pretty much Brawl Falco with tweaks to damage and properties like Fair having a vacuum-like effect and being a decent kill move or a good gimp move. Like Wolf's Bair, he has a good kill move. Side Smash still kills, but it's slightly slower so, it has a different timing. Up Smash seems like a combo setup move along with being a fair kill move later on. Nair's an approach tool and a kill move if you can land all the hits since it doesn't have a suction effect. Falco's recovery remains great and better since like Fox, he isn't helpless when using his Falco Phantasm. Also, Reflector and Blaster are good interrupter tools.

Falco is by no means bad. No character is bad like Brawl Ganondorf and Melee Pichu bad nor is anyone as broken as Brawl Meta Knight since "top tier" characters are still beatable. Every character is usable; some are more usable.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Bike is OP now. It's a projectile and it blocks other projectiles and it can be used to kill.
Fart is super ridiculous because of rage and how long Wario lives.

These two things alone make Wario really obnoxious to play against [and fun to play as!]. Bite also has been buffed because it eats a lot of projectiles now, can heal Wario and charge his fart. He really hasn't seen any big nerfs from his Brawl iteration except fsmash.

 

[Mr. Johan]

Wario lost his Super Armor Fsmash and SH Dair approaches and pressure, but gained a Bike you have to react to whether he jumps off or not, and an unpredictable Waft since the full charge kills handily now.

He can't keep coming after you and play just out your range as well as he used to, but when he wants to go in, he can.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Wario bike is a free hard punish for Zard.

Flare Blitz is love. Flare Blitz is life.

 

[WiiFitBurger]

http://youtu.be/6dhOcqXvtys
Here's wii fit vs greninja in a japanese tournament
She can definitely withstand her own against high tiers

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Wario bike is a free hard punish for Zard.

Flare Blitz is love. Flare Blitz is life.

And you know he can just jump off it before Flare Blitz hits, right?

 

[TTTTTsd]

And you know he can just jump off it before Flare Blitz hits, right?

Yeah and then the phantom hitbox strikes =3. Unless they actually fixed that.

 

[Spinosaurus]

While I appreciate the new Bike, I think he's overall nerfed. He can't really approach as reliably in the air anymore because of the nerfed DAir and NAir (which are pretty significant) and slower aerial acceleration, plus having a bit of trouble landing safely on top of that. I feel that a lot of characters give him more trouble this time around because his range is still pretty **** and that a lot of characters are damn mobile this time. New Bite is awesome though, as well as having better ground moves now.

I don't know, though. I feel like he's solid, but largely unexplored I guess. There's probably room for growth here, especially in regards to the Bike.

Yeah and then the phantom hitbox strikes =3. Unless they actually fixed that.

That only happens with projectiles though, unless I'm wrong.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Bike is OP now. It's a projectile and it blocks other projectiles and it can be used to kill.
Fart is super ridiculous because of rage and how long Wario lives.

These two things alone make Wario really obnoxious to play against [and fun to play as!]. Bite also has been buffed because it eats a lot of projectiles now, can heal Wario and charge his fart. He really hasn't seen any big nerfs from his Brawl iteration except fsmash.

Bike is overrated. Any good nair OOS destroys it.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Using the Bike from a long distance isn't a good idea imo unless you want to use it as a sort of pseudo-projectile but I can't think of many situations where you want to do that.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Bike is overrated. Any good nair OOS destroys it.

Except that Wario isn't even sitting on it while it hits your shield.

 

[The Real Gamer]

And you know he can just jump off it before Flare Blitz hits, right?

From my experience not fast enough to avoid it on reaction.

 

[Conda]

I think it's a good idea to give out your opinions on a character so people can compare and contrast, but you shouldn't shove that idea down people's throats.

It's like asking "a stupid question" or answering with the wrong question and being corrected nicely. So, let's say I said that I think Marth is a POS in this game. Well, that's not going to be received nicely and people would think I'm a troll, but if I said that Marth is underwhelming, feels like he can't stand up to nobody, and lacks tools to kill effectively, that might be taken easier and I could be corrected and learn more about Marth.

Anyway, do a lot of people think Falco really that bad? Like, Brawl Ganondorf and Melee Pichu bad? I didn't play as him much in Brawl and was just a kid playing Melee, but in SSB4, it's like playing a new character so I don't have much to look back on compared to Ike or Fox who changed slightly.

So, Falco and many others can't short hop projectiles and many characters' projectiles were nerfed. He has a much slower Dair that resembles pretty much everyone's Dairs who can meteor - we either have stall and falls or wind-ups. Up Smash is changed, Side Smash has a longer start-up, and his Bair is just Wolf's Bair. Everything else is pretty much Brawl Falco with tweaks to damage and properties like Fair having a vacuum-like effect and being a decent kill move or a good gimp move. Like Wolf's Bair, he has a good kill move. Side Smash still kills, but it's slightly slower so, it has a different timing. Up Smash seems like a combo setup move along with being a fair kill move later on. Nair's an approach tool and a kill move if you can land all the hits since it doesn't have a suction effect. Falco's recovery remains great and better since like Fox, he isn't helpless when using his Falco Phantasm. Also, Reflector and Blaster are good interrupter tools.

Falco is by no means bad. No character is bad like Brawl Ganondorf and Melee Pichu bad nor is anyone as broken as Brawl Meta Knight since "top tier" characters are still beatable. Every character is usable; some are more usable.

Good post on falco. What do others think?

 

[deepseadiva]

What if said character is rarely ever in a position to use that unblockable hitbox?

Very true. Honestly Wii Fit is the #1 character I'm excited to try out with the gamecube controller for this reason. Consistent reverse fairs may be too much to deal with.

http://youtu.be/6dhOcqXvtys
Here's wii fit vs greninja in a japanese tournament
She can definitely withstand her own against high tiers

Her mobility is so good. Her landing and recovery options really shine through here.

She seems to have trouble getting in though. She doesn't have any kind of forward sweeping move beside her projectiles.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

From my experience not fast enough to avoid it on reaction.

It can be reacted to - just not online. SideB moves like Pit, Falcon, Spacies and Diddy Kong can't be consistently reacted to with even the slightest delay. Trust me, once the Wii U version hits the streets these moves will be a lot harder to hit with offline and Wario will easily be able to react and just jump off the bike for a free punish.

 

[YeahVeryeah]

There shouldnt be tiers. People are looking to this thread for character discussion, not tier list reordering and rating.

Well, I'm not sure if a list was the best way to do it, but I've been successful in trying to move discussion from the perceived top tiers for a couple pages.

I feel like Wario would have been defined by wectoring, but it only makes sense that it was fixed.

Don't know much on Falco.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Bike is OP now. It's a projectile and it blocks other projectiles and it can be used to kill.
Fart is super ridiculous because of rage and how long Wario lives.

These two things alone make Wario really obnoxious to play against [and fun to play as!]. Bite also has been buffed because it eats a lot of projectiles now, can heal Wario and charge his fart. He really hasn't seen any big nerfs from his Brawl iteration except fsmash.

Bite is worse in footsies due to removal of grab armor. Wario's Uair also doesn't KO as easily in this game. Otherwise I agree he mostly is pretty strong.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Bite does have more range and less endlag than in Brawl, plus it doesn't instantly stop your aerial momentum.

 

[Luco]

After reading the last page, I'm unsubbing from here. No amount of explaining will change anything.

This annoys me just a little bit. Espy, for the couple years i've been around i've watched your responses to Sonic discussion with one-line insults or a general put-down of everyone else. Is it really so hard to just do a (at the very least) brief discussion on your thoughts on sonic? Most people want to know more and it's great when someone who has that knowledge can actually voice it to people and give them the information they need. (Sorry if this comes off as angry or something. )

I'm not trying to flame or anything, it's just there's a certain mindset and ideal in this thread which is that people are engaged in learning about the viability of other characters besides those they main. I just think it would be helpful if people adhered to that just a little more. :/

Also i'm tempted to agree that Falco's strengths have been geared more towards his CQC and that this aspect of his game is rather beastly. Falco isn't like Luigi though because he can force the approach still in most MUs. I think Falco is solid mid, which in case you have no idea what that means, is probably Kirby/ROB level in Brawl.

 

[PK Gaming]

My brother mains Wario so I play against him on a fairly regular basis.

He's definitely a shadow of his former self (seriously, Brawl Wario was dumb), but he's still quite strong. Wario's got awesome mobility and he's heavy-yet-a-small target, but he lacks disjoints, so he's got trouble getting against opponents with more range. In terms of KOing, Upsmash is an adequate punishing tool, but what really sets him apart from most characters is the waft. A super fast, super powerful punishing tool that can (quite frankly) rob matches. It can really limit an opponent's actions, as it's incredibly easy to punish with the waft(solid edgeguarding tool too). That said, certain characters with safe moves can straight up avoid. If you can bait a waft, then that's your chance to make Wario PAY UP. The bike is incredibly versatile, but it isn't "that" good. Supermodel From Paris has it right when he said it's punishable with OOS aerials. Wario can jump off it, but unless he's near the edge, it's dangerous for Wario to leave his bike unattended.

Overall a solid character with few bad matchups. If this character gets a stock lead on you, you're ****ed.

 

[Meru.]

So what are everybody's thoughts on Peach? I feel like I've heard a lot of talk about how she has huge potential/is likely upper-high tier at worst, on top of being good against Rosalina, but I haven't seen her much in tournament and we rarely talk about her.

Honestly she's kind of like Puff in that regard, but I understand that puff just really needs a C-stick.

What's so amazing about Peach, and why haven't we seen many?

Peach is a very well-rounded character in this game. In Brawl, she had very strong combos at low and mid percents and her aerials had non-existing landing lag. These were her two best assets. They got nerfed in Smash 4, mainly because Fair has landing lag now and Dair's knockback has been increased, but to be honest, these traits were crazy. On top of that, in exchange for these strengths she had a very glaring weakness: her killing power was atrocious. Her risk/reward ration was amazing at the start of the match (huge combos of safe attacks) but turned awful as the match progressed since she would hit her opponent from the this side of the stage to the other but they would never die, and instead kill you 50%+ earlier (in cases like Snake even 80-100%... it was pretty crazy).

In Smash 4, almost everything about her is relatively good. Her combo's may have been nerfed, but Dair > Fair is still a solid 26%, leaves opponents in an awful position and works even till mid percents, Dthrow is great since it combo's into Nair/Bair/Uair and Dtilt has hitstun for eternity, among more stuff. Her pressure game is still strong because her floating aerials, turnips and dash attack (which has amazing range and kills) challenge landing opponents. Not to mention her Fair, which you really dont want to get hit by.

Now we're actually talking about her Fair... this move is just golden. Range has been universally reduced in this game but Peach's range is still crazy, and especially Fair is just absolutely ********. It has range from here till Africa, hits on top of her, in front of her and below her, and it can be spaced very effectively using floats and shorthops. It has NO LANDING LAG when done in a shorthop or when autocanceled at the proper time, meaning you can float your Fair, retreat, drop and cancel with out any lag and be perfectly safe. As a finishing touch, this move can kill ridiculouslyearly now... it's amazing how a move with such range and safety is still so powerful. Thanks to Fair's knockback, she can consistently score early kills.

However she doesn't rely on solely Fair. Just like Fair, Bair also has amazing range, especially when done in a shorthop, and it also be autocanceled in a shorthop or in float (it can be autocanceled much earlier than Fair too). Bair is a very strong spacing tool because it is safe and it can be pulled back easily, it's super fast, has great range and decent power. This move beats a lot of other moves. Dair is pretty much the same as Brawl: safe, ridiculous range and combos. Nair is still Nair, being a great OoS option, it's fast with little lag and has hitboxes covering her whole body. Uair has amazing and disjointed range, is also fast and is great for chasing opponents or for landing punishes, It's probably the least used aerial so far though since it's very hard to do effective Uair without a C-stick, since I can barely move while doing my Uair on the 3DS.

Anyway, her aerial game is very strong, consisting of exclusively safe aerials, most of which also come out fast and all of which have great range and outspace a looooot of stuff. Other than her aerials, she still has other safe options like Dtilt and turnips on shield. Peach is probably one of the safest characters in the game. This gives her strong pressure game where she can poke at her opponents effectively and a good approaching game, especially with Float since she can basically choose from which corner she wants to annoy you.

And perhaps the best thing of all now... no killing problems anymore!! *HALLELUYAH HAAAAALLELUYAH*. Her Fair kills early consistently but she doesn't even have to rely on only one kill move anymore. Her Fsmash kills at LOL percents. Pan kills at like 100%. Racket is more dependent of where you stand since it hits horizontally, but nonetheless kills early, and sometimes they get sent at such a bad angle they will not make it bad at the stage even if they survive. (Unfortunately, I have no C-stick and 3DS controls suck so I'm not using this move too often ;_;.) But even if she doesn't score a very early kill with her Fair, Fsmash or Usmash sweetspot, she'll still be like "lol care I have got a million other reliable moves that kill anyway". Usmash's sourspot is way stronger now and can be used out of shield to kill at like 130/140% percent. Dash attack kills at similar percents. Bthrow kills at similar procent if you standing close to the side, it kills at around 170%from the middle. Some people use UpB at the top of the stage since the it connects reliably now and also kills at aroubd 130%. Bair is also still a reliably killing move, although it kills later than Fair. Her edgeguarding also seems to be pretty good since her recovery has been buffed and floating and turnips helps a lot. (I'm not very good at edgeguarding though so I can't really elaborate on that. Slayerz is really good at it).

However, she does have her weaknesses. Her mobility is somewhat slow, and plucking turnips take long, so she has trouble chasing (camping) opponents, even if she's usually safe. She is floaty and fast fall is also slow, so she is very vulnerable when she tries to land since she is a easy target to hit in the air. She also tends to rely on jumps a lot, which can lead to her being punished for jumping especially by stuff like Sheik or ZSS's Down B (admittedly the better Peach will not do any unsafe jumps so it's a pretty minor 'weakness').

All in all Peach is a very strong well-rounded character with a bunch of fast moves, she is generally safe, has good range, a good projectile, good poking game, good spacing game, good approaching game, kills early, good pressure game, decent combos and with all the options she has, she basically has the whole package EXCEPT for slow moving speed and falling speed. Overall, she is very strong.

 

[Shaya]

Wario losing spammable air dodge was a huge nerf to him, much more than the fsmash, and more so than what the bike buffs cover.
Seriously.
I still think he's a very good character in this game, I think powershielding his 'bike' projectile isn't too hard, so we'll see how usable it is in the future.
But he's definitely not the same beast as in Brawl. If it wasn't for grab releases, Wario would've been an absolute **** in the meta for a very very long time, likely still. Game plan for him and against him changes drastically when a character can kinda "wait" for a grab opportunity (it makes everyone feel good, they literally become ice climber logic for a set), Wario obviously is the prime camper/staller, but waft is a hard move to set up, but he cannot really do much about smart players respecting his certain actions and 'waiting' for mistakes that let you get grabs. All the pressure still ends up being on Wario. If it wasn't for this and how much it changes match ups styles, wario being third in the game after ICs wouldn't surprise me.

Without fearing the grab from the entire cast, he gets to play however he chooses and the pace isn't inherently set up in the opponent's favour. But Air dodge really was like... his best movement option in Brawl, he could swerve so easily in the air and space himself into landing power shields or just "in you" in a way that's in his advantage. He cannot just throw out this 50/50 at you anymore where his reward for success is likely significantly more than you properly not getting baited/timing the punish (with only a 2 frame lag window, lol).

Those two things weigh heavily on this character's capabilities in both positive and negative ways. However, as a Marth player I'm significantly more confident in that match up this game than in Brawl, even without grab release shenanigans; because he literally doesn't have a way to get in anymore which I need to respect. Wario can play more aggressively now due to lack of grab fears, but so can I because of sub-10 frame 50/50 shenanigan bull **** dice rolls 2 times a second for 8 minutes every game no longer being possible for him.

 

[ZeroBlindDragon]

@ M Meru. : Brillant analysis of Peach! I could not have done it any better!

However, you seem to have forgotten something important : Peach Bomber. This is NOT the almost useless move it was in previous games. I could say this is the best buff she got in Smash 4. It's ridiculous now. It comes out almost instantly, it covers a very long distance, it has stupidly low ending lag and, best of all, it gained the ability to hit shields. These improvements make Peach Bomber amazing for approaches, pressure, combos, and even running away! Oh, and it sweetspots ledges, too.

 

[Luco]

@ M Meru. : Brillant analysis of Peach! I could not have done it any better!

However, you seem to have forgotten something important : Peach Bomber. This is NOT the almost useless move it was in previous games. I could say this is the best buff she got in Smash 4. It's ridiculous now. It comes out almost instantly, it covers a very long distance, it has stupidly low ending lag and, best of all, it gained the ability to hit shields. These improvements make Peach Bomber amazing for approaches, pressure, combos, and even running away! Oh, and it sweetspots ledges, too.

Hmm, I actually find Peach bomber to be somewhat punishable, certainly on PS and I think even on regular shield. :o

 

[ZeroBlindDragon]

@ Luco : Never said it wasn't. x) I understand the point you're trying to make. However, you have to admit this move is a lot less punishable than in previous installments. I'm mostly comparing the move to what it was in Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

 

[Luco]

@ Luco : Never said it wasn't. x) I understand the point you're trying to make. However, you have to admit this move is a lot less punishable than in previous installments. I'm mostly comparing the move to what it was in Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

Don't get me wrong I think the move is certainly a legitimate one, I just suspect it's best used as a mixup rather than a B&B move. Which, granted, you're not making it out to be.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Wario is hella good, of all the characters I play Id say he's probably the best (so better than Yoshi at least) and he really doesnt have any stand out bad match ups, and honestly, aside from like Pikachu, he arguably doesnt lose to anyone else. He doesnt necessarily beat any top tiers, but from my experience I dont know if Id say he loses to anyone bar Pikachu unless youre talking like a possible slight -1 to maybe ZSS or Sheik or something, he's just too mobile, safe, and has so many mix ups with his insane air speed, air grab, super armor bike, nair which can mix up and is safe on block/landing, etc. I dont want to say he's top 5, but I can tell you he definitely is up there, he has way too many options at neutral, way too many traps, way too many mix ups, he's heavy, his recovery is amazing, etc. Only downsides are he has slight killing problems (however just waiting out for fart to charge then confirming it works perfectly fine so long as youre patient and dont try to force kills), not many true combos, and his ground game isnt too safe (althought his air game makes up for it and his throw game is solid; 12% fthrow and amazing distance on bthrow).

If anything, Wario should only be losing to characters who can beat him in a war of attrition and can deal with his constant safe mix ups with either superior range/safety or a much greater risk/reward where they can get a ton of damage or early kills off reads.

 

[ZeroBlindDragon]

@ Luco : "B&B"? x) But yes, you are correct regarding Peach Bomber used as a mix-up. Peach enjoys floating to get near her opponent, meaning an approach on the ground with a Peach Bomber can really surprise them. Also, a lot of combos created by @Dark.Pch involve this move as a finisher.