Character Competitive Impressions

[KlefkiHolder]

Kinda late, but on the topic of the Rose Nerf...

100% warranted. I don't care if it nerfs a fundamental part of her game when that goes against the fundamentals on the game itself.

Getting punished for getting a grab off makes no sense.

 

[ChikoLad]

Still doesn't tie them to it. See: GTA5 and Heists. You can advertise something and then take it away later, or take forfreakingever to add it to the game.

I'm just piling up the reasons why this change is unjustified. The fact it was in her reveal trailer is the cherry on top.

Also, taking away something when people have already committed to it is arguably worse.

 

[Thinkaman]

Why are people saying it is too soon for a nerf, when the game hasn't been released yet?

 

[Baskerville]

Unjustified? She is the only character in the game that can actually punish you for grabbing, that alone is more of a reason for it to be changed. Imagine if Nana in Brawl could just smack you when you grab Popo, it would make them even more ridiculous then they already are.

 

[ChikoLad]

Why are people saying it is too soon for a nerf, when the game hasn't been released yet?

From the 50-Fact Extravaganza:

"Those techniques you've been practicing in the 3DS version will work just as well in the Wii U version!"

They forgot to add "except if you're a Rosalina main", so I'd call false advertising on that.

Unjustified? She is the only character in the game that can actually punish you for grabbing, that alone is more of a reason for it to be changed. Imagine if Nana in Brawl could just smack you when you grab Popo, it would make them even more ridiculous then they already are.

Little Mac is the only character in the game who can punish absolutely any non-grab attack and can KO immediately from your shield.

 

[warriorman222]

Why are people saying it is too soon for a nerf, when the game hasn't been released yet?

Because it hasn't been released yet

But really they expect a year before small nerfs come in. A year of Rosalina and Mac complainers. I'd probably drop Smash for good before the balance patch came out.

 

[Espy Rose]

From the 50-Fact Extravaganza:

"Those techniques you've been practicing in the 3DS version will work just as well in the Wii U version!"

They forgot to add "except if you're a Rosalina main", so I'd call false advertising on that.



Little Mac is the only character in the game who can punish absolutely any non-grab attack and can KO immediately from your shield.

Sonic's sideB was changed between the trailer and the 3ds release. No Sonic main is ********. You should learn from them.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Somewhat off topic, but I found this amusing, even if it doesn't actually mean much of anything.

https://twitter.com/Sora_SakuraiUS/status/533533268717469696

Unjustified? She is the only character in the game that can actually punish you for grabbing, that alone is more of a reason for it to be changed. Imagine if Nana in Brawl could just smack you when you grab Popo, it would make them even more ridiculous then they already are.

But she can?

The thing I find most annoying about that type of anti-grab mechanic is it requires character specific tools to counter. Mario for instance does pretty well against Rosalina precisely for this reason, because he can count on Back Throw to separate the two.

 

[ChikoLad]

Sonic's sideB was changed between the trailer and the 3ds release. No Sonic main is *****ing. You should learn from them.

Changed subtley, not in a "OH LOOK THIS IS A THING ROSALINA CAN DO THAT NO OTHER CHARACTER IN THE GAME CAN DO ISNT SHE SUCH A COOL NEW CHARACTER????" kind of way.

 

[Thinkaman]

Somewhat off topic, but I found this amusing, even if it doesn't actually mean much of anything.

https://twitter.com/Sora_SakuraiUS/status/533533268717469696

I wonder if this channel would work for requesting a custom move menu option.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

My eyes bleed at this all caps over a trick in a dress.
Crying bout false advertisement.

Grabs are important stop tripping.

 

[Espy Rose]

Changed subtley, not in a "OH LOOK THIS IS A THING ROSALINA CAN DO THAT NO OTHER CHARACTER IN THE GAME CAN DO ISNT SHE SUCH A COOL NEW CHARACTER????" kind of way.

It's a pretty major change.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

I'm just piling up the reasons why this change is unjustified. The fact it was in her reveal trailer is the cherry on top.

I'm not sure why you're hung up on the reveal trailer, the 50-fact Extravaganza, and the tips when this is the character competitive impressions thread.

Also you continue to bring up Little Mac logic when we're talking about someone incredibly different. Enough.

 

[warriorman222]

I'm not sure why you're hung up on the reveal trailer, the 50-fact Extravaganza, and the tips when this is the character competitive impressions thread.

Also you continue to bring up Little Mac logic when we're talking about someone incredibly different. Enough.

They're called examples. Little Mac has something much better, but when Rosalina gets something inferior to that, it gets taken away. That's not good logic, but anyone's allowed to use whatever logic they want.

 

[KlefkiHolder]

From the 50-Fact Extravaganza:

"Those techniques you've been practicing in the 3DS version will work just as well in the Wii U version!"

They forgot to add "except if you're a Rosalina main", so I'd call false advertising on that.



Little Mac is the only character in the game who can punish absolutely any non-grab attack and can KO immediately from your shield.

I'm sorry but is Rose the only one getting changed? What about Peach and the Links losing down b landing lag cancel, Wario losing his crazy di, or Mega Man losing Rush Cancelling?

Stop whining. We're all being effected here... Rose is still going to be a good character. Its not a death sentence for crying out loud.

PM 3.5 just released and I don't see Diddy mains going crazy because Diddy got neutered. Rose is still going to be great, calm down.

And last I checked, Mac wasn't the only one with armor.

 

[ThatLunaticFeline]

Yeah, seriously guys... This crying about a Rosalina change is unnecessary. You aren't going to change Sakurai's opinion by ******** about how unfair it is that your main, the one winning tons of tournaments, is getting a few changes to make sure that there's a more even playing field.

 

[ChikoLad]

I'm sorry but is Rose the only one getting changed? What about Peach and the Links losing down b landing lag cancel, Wario losing his crazy di, or Mega Man losing Rush Cancelling?

Stop whining. We're all being effected here... Rose is still going to be a good character. Its not a death sentence for crying out loud.

PM 3.5 just released and I don't see Diddy mains going crazy because Diddy got neutered. Rose is still going to be great, calm down.

And last I checked, Mac wasn't the only one with armor.

This post made me laugh.

"It's a not a bug, it's a feature!"

 

[Crescent_Sun]

The other issue here is that there are a lot of arguments forming over something that might not even be true? The poster who talked about this info said that MAYBE that's what they saw. Things like the Luma timer we have been able to actually confirm, but there are a lot of conflicting reports about rush cancelling and one MAYBE about this Luma grab thing. Ya'll are crying out about "oh, how could the developers do this to us" when we don't even know for sure yet.

There's a tip that says Luma can attack rosalina while being grabbed, and that could have been misread because of how twitchy everyone is about the balance update. Debate it when we have confirmed testing of it, that way we can see what is worked around it, like if Luma can still punish after throw, etc.

 

[deepseadiva]

Bomber is a big buff. It was an "okay" mixup and Brawl and it's definitely much better.

Peach is good main choice in this game finally. I'm curious what her bad matchups are. She seems to handle Rosa and Sheik and Greninja ok. Villager I could see becoming her counter.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

The other issue here is that there are a lot of arguments forming over something that might not even be true? The poster who talked about this info said that MAYBE that's what they saw. Things like the Luma timer we have been able to actually confirm, but there are a lot of conflicting reports about rush cancelling and one MAYBE about this Luma grab thing. Ya'll are crying out about "oh, how could the developers do this to us" when we don't even know for sure yet.

There's a tip that says Luma can attack rosalina while being grabbed, and that could have been misread because of how twitchy everyone is about the balance update. Debate it when we have confirmed testing of it, that way we can see what is worked around it, like if Luma can still punish after throw, etc.

As the person who first brought it up here, yes I'll feel very silly if it turns out to be inaccurate. I'm currently trying to find a video or picture of the tip in question although TBH I'm not hopeful. I'm told it was from a Gamestop demo if that helps any.

 

[Crescent_Sun]

It's fine, you specifically said it was a possibility, not a certainty. If people are going to get mad at you because it doesn't turn out to be true the onus is on them.

 

[ChikoLad]

The other issue here is that there are a lot of arguments forming over something that might not even be true? The poster who talked about this info said that MAYBE that's what they saw. Things like the Luma timer we have been able to actually confirm, but there are a lot of conflicting reports about rush cancelling and one MAYBE about this Luma grab thing. Ya'll are crying out about "oh, how could the developers do this to us" when we don't even know for sure yet.

There's a tip that says Luma can attack rosalina while being grabbed, and that could have been misread because of how twitchy everyone is about the balance update. Debate it when we have confirmed testing of it, that way we can see what is worked around it, like if Luma can still punish after throw, etc.

I'm aware that the person who posted about the Rosalina nerf today may have made an error, but of course it's still interesting to talk about it.

 

[KlefkiHolder]

This post made me laugh.

"It's a not a bug, it's a feature!"

Are you saying that people don't actively practice those techniques on the 3DS?

Tech is tech. No one cares that wavedashing is a physics exploit and l canceling is something added by the devs because they're both considered tech

 

[ChikoLad]

Are you saying that people don't actively practice those techniques on the 3DS?

Tech is tech. No one cares that wavedashing is a physics exploit and l canceling is something added by the devs because they're both considered tech

Except the devs themselves, who probably left them in by accident.

Granted, I actually would like Greninja's Shadow Sneak Cancel to stay, as well as the Item Toss Cancel. But I can see why they are being removed - they are technically blemishes in programming. So they want to remove them.

Luma's ability to attack while Rosalina has been grabbed was a well pushed mechanic, and we were encouraged to practice it. It's annoying to see that removed, it was quite literally a selling point of the character.

Also, I've heard that Greninja's Up Smash has been given more end lag, which I also don't like. But the Rosalina case does not bother me so much out of favourite character bias, it's because of how much this mechanic was pushed.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I just wanna say something on this whole topic here with Rosey. The grab thing, I agree and disagree with it. What I agree with is the fact you get punish for getting a good read and adapting to the play for your grab. That's kinda lame, even if the players is bad and you read him like a book to get a grab and put him in a bad position from it. Now what I don't agree with it is a player should know better not to try to grab her when luma....is right freaking there. It's the same thing with IC. You don't try to grab them. If you grab the CPU, you can get punished hard for it. And if you grab the player, the CPU can break it up. Not safe. Though there is a pumel with alot of characters that can hit both IC.

With that said, wat people should be doing is dealing with these things. Peach TLC is gone. Now her neutral game is harder. Its a pain trying to space a move well and create a wall where characters just don't jump in on you all the time and get a hit. That is one of the most important things in fighting games. Since Peach moves are not like Melee/brawl, It's hard to space well and be hard to hit. With TLC out the way its gonna be harder to stop people from running in on you and doing stuff and putting me in ****ting situations. Even at noob level. And it's annoying against some of these characters in this game. Since day one I have been trying many ways to figure out a solid neutral game with her. And I have yet to come up with something. I have an idea I wanna try out next time I play the game.

Thats all I been doing. And yes its annoying, cause I feel like I seriously have to bust my ass for people not just really jump in on me or I am forced to block and then have my blind spot abused where I can't do a damm thing. The stuff I have to do with this character is not easy (and lets not get that twisted that because of this she is bad, cause she is far from it). But it's something I have to deal with. I dealt with some much crap in brawl as Peach, and I just deal with it without crying about characters or the game. And I am not gonna start here. So everyone else should do the same.

When I figure out this neutral game with her, it's over. For now I am losing ALOOOOOOOOOOOOOT lately trying to figure this out. I don't care about winning. Trying to win does not make you, nor your character better. losing, experimenting and learning does. Losing now and have the opponent brag about how he beat so and so and that this match up is free cause of it should not matter. Cause when you get stuff down and go back to these fool, they are gonna be the ones complaining and johning. Now is not the time to win.

So with that said, deal with it. This is the game you decided to play. and now that patches are the future, get use to changes. Wether it was too soon or not. get use to it like I have too as annoying as it is for me and what I been going through trying to figure out. There isn't anything you can do about these character. Learn to change you game so you can play based on it to still stay on your game. if you don't like it, don't bother playing the character anymore or the game. All this here is not really doing anything.

 

[KlefkiHolder]

Except the devs themselves, who probably left them in by accident.

Granted, I actually would like Greninja's Shadow Sneak Cancel to stay, as well as the Item Toss Cancel. But I can see why they are being removed - they are technically blemishes in programming. So they want to remove them.

Luma's ability to attack while Rosalina has been grabbed was a well pushed mechanic, and we were encouraged to practice it. It's annoying to see that removed, it was quite literally a selling point of the character.

On the topic of wavedashing, Sakurai and the devs were aware and just left it in, but this is irrelevant to the discussion so...

Anyways, I think maybe they realized that maybe it wasn't the best selling point to have? Grabs are supposed tow be a punish where the grabber gets punished hard for whiffing but punishes hard for hitting it. This is a key, basic fundamental of the game.

Rose breaks this.

Also if you were to ask anyone before release on why they were excited fr Rose, no one would tell you "No grabs."

 

[ChikoLad]

On the topic of wavedashing, Samurai and the devs were aware and just left it in, but this is irrelevant to the discussion so...

Anyways, I think maybe they realized that maybe it wasn't the best selling point to have? Grabs are supposed tow be a punish where the grabber gets punished hard for whiffing but punishes hard for hitting it. This is a key, basic fundamental of the game.

Rose breaks this.

Also if you were to ask anyone before release on why they were excited fr Rose, no one would tell you "No grabs."

So? Many characters "break" fundamental rules. Little Mac can kill people out of their shield with the KO Punch for example, but shielding is supposed to be a way to block things at the last second, especially perfect shield. He can also shrug off any attack while charging certain moves, but that breaks the rule that he should be punished for letting himself get hit by slow attacks. Peach can float, but that breaks the rule that characters fall down after all of their jumps are consumed. It also allows her to use aerials at EXACT ground level, therefore breaking the rule only ground attacks are useable on the ground.

But that's how we get unique characters. They break rules, and you adapt to that. Luma can hit you while you grab Rosalina, but that just means you should think twice about grabbing her, and what you do with your grab, because there are ways around it. At the same time, you don't have to think twice about getting rid of Luma while Rosalina is away from it, as it will undoubtedly benefit you, even if normally, in a situation where you are against 2 people, splitting attention is best.

And yes, people were excited about Luma being able to break Rosalina out of grabs. It was brought up quite a bit in the Rosalina boards before release. That's kinda why they specifically showed it off in the trailer - it's a unique mechanic of a new character. New characters aren't just hype because we love the characters from their games, but because they bring new mechanics to Smash, and diversify the roster.

 

[KlefkiHolder]

So? Many characters "break" fundamental rules. Little Mac can kill people out of their shield with the KO Punch for example, but shielding is supposed to be a way to block things at the last second, especially perfect shield. He can also shrug off any attack while charging certain moves, but that breaks the rule that he should be punished for letting himself get hit by slow attacks. Peach can float, but that breaks the rule that characters fall down after all of their jumps are consumed. It also allows her to use aerials at EXACT ground level, therefore breaking the rule only ground attacks are useable on the ground.

But that's how we get unique characters. They break rules, and you adapt to that. Luma can hit you while you grab Rosalina, but that just means you should think twice about grabbing her, and what you do with your grab, because there are ways around it. At the same time, you don't have to think twice about getting rid of Luma while Rosalina is away from it, as it will undoubtedly benefit you, even if normally, in a situation where you are against 2 people, splitting attention is best.

And yes, people were excited about Luma being able to break Rosalina out of grabs. It was brought up quite a bit in the Rosalina boards before release. That's kinda why they specifically showed it off in the trailer - it's a unique mechanic of a new character. New characters aren't just hype because we love the characters from their games, but because they bring new mechanics to Smash, and diversify the roster.

So aove that requires huge CQC, takes a while to charge, is very high risk, high reward, can be stalled out, and can be spot dodged (not sure about that last one) is comparable to Rose's ability to punish one of the most important punishes in the game?

Mac doesn't get armor while charging his smashes, and only heavy armor during neutral b. Though I do want to see his armor toned down a little. However, KO punch and his armor doesn't break the game, especially when plenty of characters have armor as well. Rose is the only one that can punish successful grabs.

Since when was Peach the only one able to use low altitude aerials? Floating isn't an issue, which actually plays into the whole uniqueness thing. Floating is a unique characteristic that doesn't break game mechanics. Every one can sh an aerial. But, like I said earlier, no one else can take getting grabbed as a good thing. For 15 years now w have been taught to avoid the grab because if you don't you'll be sorry. This is a CORE mechanic, one that Rose ignores, not reinvents. Floating doesn't have even a shred of this effect

 

[Deleted member]

So? Many characters "break" fundamental rules. Little Mac can kill people out of their shield with the KO Punch for example, but shielding is supposed to be a way to block things at the last second, especially perfect shield. He can also shrug off any attack while charging certain moves, but that breaks the rule that he should be punished for letting himself get hit by slow attacks. Peach can float, but that breaks the rule that characters fall down after all of their jumps are consumed. It also allows her to use aerials at EXACT ground level, therefore breaking the rule only ground attacks are useable on the ground.

But that's how we get unique characters. They break rules, and you adapt to that. Luma can hit you while you grab Rosalina, but that just means you should think twice about grabbing her, and what you do with your grab, because there are ways around it. At the same time, you don't have to think twice about getting rid of Luma while Rosalina is away from it, as it will undoubtedly benefit you, even if normally, in a situation where you are against 2 people, splitting attention is best.

And yes, people were excited about Luma being able to break Rosalina out of grabs. It was brought up quite a bit in the Rosalina boards before release. That's kinda why they specifically showed it off in the trailer - it's a unique mechanic of a new character. New characters aren't just hype because we love the characters from their games, but because they bring new mechanics to Smash, and diversify the roster.

Anybody else heard of the phrase "Game footage not final"? It certainly applies here, especially when it comes to balance patches.

When I grab Rosalina, should I get punished with Luma's FSmash for doing something right? No I should not. Little Mac's Super Armor and KO Punch are compensated by a huge glaring weakness in his air game/recovery ability. Therefore he needs more tools than normal on the ground to justify this weakness. Rosalina has no such weakness and is a good character with a broken mechanic. The development team realized that Luma's short respawn time and its ability to punish grabs was fundamentally flawed, so they took those techniques out.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Anybody else heard of the phrase "Game footage not final"? It certainly applies here, especially when it comes to balance patches.

When I grab Rosalina, should I get punished with Luma's FSmash for doing something right? No I should not. Little Mac's Super Armor and KO Punch are compensated by a huge glaring weakness in his air game/recovery ability. Therefore he needs more tools than normal on the ground to justify this weakness. Rosalina has no such weakness and is a good character with a broken mechanic. The development team realized that Luma's short respawn time and its ability to punish grabs was fundamentally flawed, so they took those techniques out.

I don't think Luma can use smashes while Rosalina is grabbed, just aerials.

 

[ChikoLad]

So aove that requires huge CQC, takes a while to charge, is very high risk, high reward, can be stalled out, and can be spot dodged (not sure about that last one) is comparable to Rose's ability to punish one of the most important punishes in the game?

Mac doesn't get armor while charging his smashes, and only heavy armor during neutral b. Though I do want to see his armor toned down a little. However, KO punch and his armor doesn't break the game, especially when plenty of characters have armor as well. Rose is the only one that can punish successful grabs.

Since when was Peach the only one able to use low altitude aerials? Floating isn't an issue, which actually plays into the whole uniqueness thing. Floating is a unique characteristic that doesn't break game mechanics. Every one can sh an aerial. But, like I said earlier, no one else can take getting grabbed as a good thing. For 15 years now w have been taught to avoid the grab because if you don't you'll be sorry. This is a CORE mechanic, one that Rose ignores, not reinvents. Floating doesn't have even a shred of this effect

Sometimes I feel like people phase out certain parts of my posts.

Anybody else heard of the phrase "Game footage not final"? It certainly applies here, especially when it comes to balance patches.

When I grab Rosalina, should I get punished with Luma's FSmash for doing something right? No I should not. Little Mac's Super Armor and KO Punch are compensated by a huge glaring weakness in his air game/recovery ability. Therefore he needs more tools than normal on the ground to justify this weakness. Rosalina has no such weakness and is a good character with a broken mechanic. The development team realized that Luma's short respawn time and its ability to punish grabs was fundamentally flawed, so they took those techniques out.

Yes you should get punished for grabbing Rosalina by Luma for grabbing her when Luma's right ****ing there. Because you should know far better than to grab Rosalina and ignore Luma in process (because even when you grab her while Luma is close, you still have options to stop him no matter who you play as).

Also yeah, Luma only uses aerials when Rosalina is grabbed. And the moment you pummel or throw Rosalina, he is completely restricted to the very inaccurate F-Air, even if you don't hit him.

And Rosalina has weaknesses. 4th lightest in the game, and is a huge target. Luma is there to offset that, because we all know what happened to Mewtwo in Melee.

 

[Clemente]

It's not my place to post too much in the competitive board, but I will say that if anything, the respawn timer nerf and the nerf to Luma control while grabbed aren't enough.

Now, that's just my opinion... but the idea that these two nerfs alone are too much for Rosalina is absolutely nuts. She will without a doubt still be incredibly powerful.

 

[NairWizard]

And Rosalina has weaknesses. 4th lightest in the game, and is a huge target. Luma is there to offset that, because we all know what happened to Mewtwo in Melee.

I wasn't going to participate in this discussion any more than I already have (since it's not really a competitive discussion at this point and imo doesn't really belong in this thread), but I wanted to point out that tallness (note: *not* hugeness, because Rosalina isn't horizontally wide) and lightness are not by themselves enough to make a character weak. See: Project M Mewtwo.

 

[KlefkiHolder]

Sometimes I feel like people phase out certain parts of my posts.

Care to elaborate because right now it seems as if you're disregarding everything I said?

 

[Deleted member]

Sometimes I feel like people phase out certain parts of my posts.



Yes you should get punished for grabbing Rosalina by Luma for grabbing her when Luma's right ****ing there. Because you should know far better than to grab Rosalina and ignore Luma in process (because even when you grab her while Luma is close, you still have options to stop him no matter who you play as).

And Rosalina has weaknesses. 4th lightest in the game, and is a huge target. Luma is there to offset that, because we all know what happened to Mewtwo in Melee.

I should be punished for doing something right? If I attack with any other move I hit both Luma and Rosalina, why should grabs be any different? You essentially render 4 of my moves not only useless, but I get punished for attempting them. Its not about "knowing not to use a move", its about the fact that I can't use these moves that are supposed to be relatively safe options.

Mewtwo had a lack of KO options, and they also were very short ranged, among other issues. This game also has much larger blast zones than Melee. PM Mewtwo is also tall and relatively lightweight and he isn't a horrible character. Rosalina has a minion, long lasting hitboxes, disjoints, and has more KO power. You can cherry pick weaknesses from characters and ignore everything else but it doesn't justify your argument. Rosalina is a much better character than Melee Mewtwo even with these nerfs. Also, does being a tall (not wide like Dedede) target that is a lightweight make you almost automatically die if you're offstage against a competent player? No, especially not when you have a recovery as good as Rosalina's.

 

[ChikoLad]

I wasn't going to participate in this discussion any more than I already have (since it's not really a competitive discussion at this point and imo doesn't really belong in this thread), but I wanted to point out that tallness (note: *not* hugeness, because Rosalina isn't horizontally wide) and lightness are not by themselves enough to make a character weak. See: Project M Mewtwo.

Rosalina is wide, that broad gown is a hit box.

And I didn't say that she was weak, I was pointing out how Luma is there to make her not weak, in combination with her aerials (her having good aerials is justified because you're not going to be doing as much with Luma in the air - it also come naturally enough with her size that her aerials would have some effectiveness, since she has long legs are three of her aerials are kicks, which automatically gives her a degree of range).

Care to elaborate because right now it seems as if you're disregarding everything I said?

You claim Peach's float doesn't break a rule (i.e. multiple jumps), even though it quite clearly does.

And I was not referring to short hop aerials, Peach can press down + jump from stand still/ground movement to literally float along the ground, and use her aerials along the ground. No other character can literally use multiple aerials in a row at exact ground level. Peach can also let a full aerial come out at ground level, and therefore, perfectly avoid her landing lag. No other character can do this (at least not regularly with all of their aerials). This is definitely breaking a rule. That is, being able to punish ground level aerials thanks to landing lag disabling your opponents movement, something that is a basic mechanic in every Smash game - Peach can use float to completely ignore landing lag - also you seemed OK with Item Toss Cancel, which lets her do the same thing in another fashion, so I'm calling hypocrisy on this "ROSALINA BREAKS RULES, NERF PLOX" mindset.

Same applies to Little Mac but I've already stated time and time again why his stuff is obnoxious, today and in the past.

Keep in mind though - I don't think there is anything wrong with Peach and Little Mac being able to do these things. But if you still think what Rosalina can do is a problem, then you are obligated to think the same about Little Mac and Peach.

Also keep in mind that Peach's Item Toss Cancel doesn't offset any weakness of hers since float already exists, it's just another strength in an otherwise very solid character.

I should be punished for doing something right?

Confirmation bias at it's finest.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I should be punished for doing something right? If I attack with any other move I hit both Luma and Rosalina, why should grabs be any different? You essentially render 4 of my moves not only useless, but I get punished for attempting them. Its not about "knowing not to use a move", its about the fact that I can't use these moves that are supposed to be relatively safe options.

Ice Climbers were the same way and AFAIK everyone just accepted that as part of their character, don't grab Popo if Nana is around.

EDIT: Someone dug up this old video from around release. Ignoring the rather meh gameplay (IMO), Falco gets off several grabs on Rosalina with Luma nearby but unable to interfere in time. So that does support the argument that it wasn't impossible to grab and throw Rosalina, especially since it's beyond easy to knock Luma away temporarily. That said I'm not trying to explicitly argue for or against the nerf, mostly because it's already happened and strong feelings are rather pointless at this stage.

 

[Xsyven]

People who are comparing Luma and Nana... it's kind of a bad comparison. Luma respawns, can be controlled from longer distances, and can be lassoed back to Rosie from long distance.

Frankly, these nerfs are totally justifiable.

 

[Yokoblue]

Ice Climbers were the same way and AFAIK everyone just accepted that as part of their character, don't grab Popo if Nana is around.

EDIT: Someone dug up this old video from around release. Ignoring the rather meh gameplay (IMO), Falco gets off several grabs on Rosalina with Luma nearby but unable to interfere in time. So that does support the argument that it wasn't impossible to grab and throw Rosalina, especially since it's beyond easy to knock Luma away temporarily. That said I'm not trying to explicitly argue for or against the nerf, mostly because it's already happened and strong feelings are rather pointless at this stage.

I don't think your video is legit... I mean the Rosalina player fight the falco for a good 30 sec without recalling luma next to him. Luma is just chilling there and they are playing neutral and he doenst call it back. The desync is real and the player isnt even playing with luma lol He seem to just don't care. Most player today keep Luma close or desync it just for a small moment.

 

[Iron Kraken]

People who are comparing Luma and Nana... it's kind of a bad comparison. Luma respawns, can be controlled from longer distances, and can be lassoed back to Rosie from long distance.

Frankly, these nerfs are totally justifiable.

Nana is also at least somewhat competent at staying on the stage. Luma falls off of it pretty much if you blow on her. Basically just blow on Luma, and that's 16 seconds in which she is off the stage (counting her free fall tumbling animation).