Character Competitive Impressions

[Spirst]

I'm feeling slighted whenever you bring it up like that...

I didn't check Duck Hunt's customs, but his recovery and floatiness are very big weaknesses, similar to ROB, and I believe this is the primary thing that works against him competitively. I believe he's better than ROB because he's a smaller target and his neutral game and traps are more versatile, though this comes at a cost of less useful throws. Both are not very good at scoring KOs early, but Duck Hunt has more ways to keep people in really awkward positions.

Japanese footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOM3ecnV7iM

Character actually looks really hard to play really optimally because of the many ways the dynamite can be positioned.

Video wasn't the greatest DH play as it was overly reliant on his projectiles but it was decent. The character is primarily a setup/pressure character as he doesn't have much true combo potential disregarding projectiles. I find that there needs to be a decent ratio between projectile usage - physical prowess as his projectiles are generally slow and aren't ideal for camping. He has some options for situating the can via SH fair/bair/ftilt/dtilt. You can also sourspot the can to send it behind you and sweetspot it to send it in front of you. Bit tricky to pull off, but it helps. A get-up attack from the ledge on the can will also send it far enough to hit someone on the other side of FD.

Customs can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJaJI505Nro

I agree that the recovery hurts him a good amount as the default has no hitbox, is slow, and can easily be edgeguarded against/stage spiked. Custom 2 has a hitbox (multihit where the dog bites anyone close) but a short range that makes it nearly useless. Custom 3, Duck Jump, has a windbox effect in front and behind the character and comes out quickly but has a set vertical range and no horizontal distance. It's useful against characters who can't effectively edgeguard but again, isn't too great. The fthrow is typically guaranteed to follow into fair/RAR bair but other than that, the throws aren't amazing. Dthrow is decent, but is heavily read-based. Bthrow can be used to throw the other player into a nearby situated can which can be useful at high percents.

Haven't played around with the clay pigeon customs but I feel like the default is superior by far. Rising clay is pretty useless and the other one is typically unreliable.

 

[Thinkaman]

Does anyone kno what jigglypuffs sing 3, spinphony, does.

You know how Conan the Barbarian said that the best in life is to crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women?

Spinphony is the precise opposite of all of those things.

It does nothing.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Does anyone kno what jigglypuffs sing 3, spinphony, does.

I'm planning to use
Rollout
Double-slap
Hyper voice
Self-destruct or rest

Self-destruct is strong but idk what to use it for. What do u guys think it's useful for

Spinphony rotates them, like Marios cape, except the range is abysmal, its out for too long, the pulses are incredibly infrequent and you are probably better off just SDing.

 

[Thinkaman]

Spinphony rotates them, like Marios cape, except the range is abysmal, its out for too long, the pulses are incredibly infrequent and you are probably better off just SDing.

Except it does (trivial) knockback, so it resets special fall and cannot be used to gimp.

Also, it's worse at reflecting projectiles.

Because it can't.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Against other projectile characters I find the giant gunman really useful. Duck Hunt wins the projectile war against everyone except probably Villager (who pockets the can and makes Duck Hunt sad) with that giant gunman.

Duck Hunt in general I'm not so sure about. We don't have frame data yet, but he feels really slow in close quarters combat moreso than any other character, and it's often hard to finish stocks with him. His projectile game is formidable but manageable for seemingly the entire cast, and while he has some incredibly impressive disjoints on several moves, I don't think his normals lend themselves to safe pressure well. His gameplan is coherent which helps a lot; use his incredibly diverse projectiles to force the opponent to do something and use his disjoints in conjunction with good reads to punish that and assert control over the match. Duck Hunt is also really hard to kill since he plays a very low risk gameplan, has decent weight, has aerials that are useful defensively, and has a recovery that I think is a bit better than he's getting credit for (default is slow but flexible, and Duck Jump is honestly a pretty good move) with high survivability being incredibly important to his gameplan working. I see it as a high tier gameplan here, but I don't predict Duck Hunt will be among the top characters.

 

[Spirst]

Against other projectile characters I find the giant gunman really useful. Duck Hunt wins the projectile war against everyone except probably Villager (who pockets the can and makes Duck Hunt sad) with that giant gunman.

Duck Hunt in general I'm not so sure about. We don't have frame data yet, but he feels really slow in close quarters combat moreso than any other character, and it's often hard to finish stocks with him. His projectile game is formidable but manageable for seemingly the entire cast, and while he has some incredibly impressive disjoints on several moves, I don't think his normals lend themselves to safe pressure well. His gameplan is coherent which helps a lot; use his incredibly diverse projectiles to force the opponent to do something and use his disjoints in conjunction with good reads to punish that and assert control over the match. Duck Hunt is also really hard to kill since he plays a very low risk gameplan, has decent weight, has aerials that are useful defensively, and has a recovery that I think is a bit better than he's getting credit for (default is slow but flexible, and Duck Jump is honestly a pretty good move) with high survivability being incredibly important to his gameplan working. I see it as a high tier gameplan here, but I don't predict Duck Hunt will be among the top characters.

His recovery isn't that flexible, honestly. It would be if it could be canceled at any point but unfortunately, that isn't the case. Duck Jump is good, yes, but the lack of horizontal distance coupled with his middle weight means it's not too hard to send him out of range. It's not instant either and has a small start-up lag that can be exploited by proper timing. Lack of any hitbox definitely hurts his recovery either way.

As for the Mega Gunmen, I agree. It has 25% and can take a fully charged Mega Man fsmash or Samus charge shot without being KOd. It lasts about 5 seconds (with the deviation being about 1-2 seconds depending on the specific gunman properties) and gives him a nice wall. Fsmash is useful for punishing landings but is otherwise hard to land. I suspect the ease of being able to pivot fsmash using the GC controller will be a nice help. If you get caught in a combo chain, it can be kind of difficult to recompose yourself as the can doesn't act like Snake's grenade which could get him out of most anything. The disjointed fair and bair are good for poking and can be safe on shield when spaced well. OoS nair is actually a surprisingly decent KO option as it does more knockback than you would expect. As a downside, the strong hitbox is relegated to the first few frames and it has a good amount of end lag after. Uair is also a good KO move at high percents but lacks the downwards knockback other multihit uairs like Greninja's and Sheik's have.

I don't see the character being top either as he can fall victim to some pretty nasty stuff once the other player gets in and forces him in uncomfortable positions. I think he's viable for high/high-mid and definitely won't be low but yeah, not top.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Except it does (trivial) knockback, so it resets special fall and cannot be used to gimp.

Also, it's worse at reflecting projectiles.

Because it can't.

Yes Indeed.
You can use it as a taunt however.

 

[warriorman222]

Yes Indeed.
You can use it as a taunt however.

Since Sing is useless and that got purple, may as well.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

I dont think Sing is useless, just too impractical and unsafe to warrant anything but rare useage.
Even still Sync is really just a taunt.
If someone goofs and gets caught by Sing, they can die, if they goof and get hit by Sync, nothing really happens.

 

[Kofu]

All three versions of Sing can be ledge cancelled, but even then Spinphony generally comes out too late to be useful. It seems to last even longer than default Sing. I don't know who designed the move but it's terrible.

Hyper Voice might see some situational usage though.

 

[NairWizard]

On the topic of Mario, I still think that he's a good character and does well vs. Rosalina and Diddy for what it's worth, and those are two of the strongest characters in the game. I also believe that fireballs are decent projectiles for spacing attacks and his d-air must be treated with care; it's good for escaping strings and juggles. He has some interesting strings and followups from his hits although nothing is guaranteed: d-throw to up-tilt can lead you into a read with a dash attack or b-air.

Gust cape is frankly fantastic as a custom and has uses as an edgeguarding tool, reflector, and general, all-purpose "get away from me" tool. Fast fireballs have some decent use too, and high-pressure flood is good vs. say Lucario for early gimps (but difficult to pull off). His smashes have good speed and damage, and knockback staling has been reduced in this game compared to the Brawl iteration I believe, so you can use up-smash for damage without worrying too much about losing a kill throw.

Solo Rosalina is pretty strong but I think that people are underestimating how easy it is from the other character's perspective to get in against Rosalina when Luma isn't around as a barrier, and what the consequences of dealing with Luma often are. The problem normally is that to kill Luma you have to subject yourself to Rosalina's attacks. When I use Palutena dash attack to hit Luma, for example, I often get grabbed by Rosalina. But with the new 13-second timer, taking some damage in order to kill Luma becomes much more worthwhile. In fact, as most characters I would gladly make that trade as Rosalina is pretty light compared to everyone else.


Jigglypuff is pretty good. Imo.

Sure feels nice to move the discussion away from Mario and Rosalina.

 

[Twinkiepuff]

I think jiggs will be mid or high tier

Self-destruct or down b 3 kills early omg I think it's great for reads, edge guarding, stopping approuchs. It doesn't take that much time for it to activate/wake up and the wind box in the beginning is pretty useful

 

[warriorman222]

I think jiggs will be mid or high tier

Self-destruct or down b 3 kills early omg I think it's great for reads, edge guarding, stopping approuchs. It doesn't take that much time for it to activate/wake up and the wind box in the beginning is pretty useful

Self destruct is Down-B 3.

 

[Spirst]

Self destruct is Down-B 3.

Think he meant it like "self destruct, down b 3, kills..."

 

[ZHMT]

She has rest combos
Thank Jesus

Bair kills so early and if ur edge guarding it kills at 50 omg

Rest kills around 50%

She's not that bad on the ground anymore. Shes not good on the ground but not as bad as she was in melee or brawl.

Rest only kills at 52% on a couple characters when Jiggs has no rage. Most characters will be KOd at 60% vectoring aside. The good part however is, with Jiggs at max rage her rests will kill Mario at 38-39%, vectoring aside. Rage buffs rest a lot because of its amazing high base knockback. Matter of fact, with max rage Sheik is KOd in the low 30s.

Jigglypuffs customs imo are almost all bad. Her rollout that passes opponents may be usable for recovering, all the sing alternatives are poor and the rest alternatives are a straight nerf.

Her grab game isn't very good in terms of combos but all her grabs do 10% damage, so you always get max reward in damage and get to put them where you want 100% of the time, as well as pummeling for 3.1%.

Fair true combos into fair, nair and rest depending on the moves scaling and other factors I'm not too familiar with. Fair to Fair is easy and a true combo leading to easy edgeguards. Dropping off the ledge with a nair is very effective if not teched.

Utilt kills earlier than expected and is pretty safe, as well as combos into rest at low %. Uair combos into rest as well and can ko a lot of characters if they don't hold down. (They should). Jigglypuffs up air also beats almost anything from below, seriously, try it out.

Also, bair, omg bair. Bair has a sweet and sour spot. Sweet spot bair will kill "average" weighted characters like Mario or Marth at 110% easy from the center of FD, Puff at 0. Jumping oos and hitting a misspaced move with a bair is so rewarding and fast, and I know its stronger than Falcon/Samus/Sonic bair for sure, love it.

Sorry for the long post but I need to at least spark a discussion of the character with some facts. I don't think Jigglypuff is among the "top 5" people generally talk about but she's definitely a great character. Can't wait to have a dacus =D

 

[Twinkiepuff]

I put self-destruct or down b 3 because people might not kno what self-destruct is

Rest only kills at 52% on a couple characters when Jiggs has no rage. Most characters will be KOd at 60% vectoring aside. The good part however is, with Jiggs at max rage her rests will kill Mario at 38-39%, vectoring aside. Rage buffs rest a lot because of its amazing high base knockback. Matter of fact, with max rage Sheik is KOd in the low 30s.

Jigglypuffs customs imo are almost all bad. Her rollout that passes opponents may be usable for recovering, all the sing alternatives are poor and the rest alternatives are a straight nerf.

Her grab game isn't very good in terms of combos but all her grabs do 10% damage, so you always get max reward in damage and get to put them where you want 100% of the time, as well as pummeling for 3.1%.

Fair true combos into fair, nair and rest depending on the moves scaling and other factors I'm not too familiar with. Fair to Fair is easy and a true combo leading to easy edgeguards. Dropping off the ledge with a nair is very effective if not teched.

Utilt kills earlier than expected and is pretty safe, as well as combos into rest at low %. Uair combos into rest as well and can ko a lot of characters if they don't hold down. (They should). Jigglypuffs up air also beats almost anything from below, seriously, try it out.

Also, bair, omg bair. Bair has a sweet and sour spot. Sweet spot bair will kill "average" weighted characters like Mario or Marth at 110% easy from the center of FD, Puff at 0. Jumping oos and hitting a misspaced move with a bair is so rewarding and fast, and I know its stronger than Falcon/Samus/Sonic bair for sure, love it.

Sorry for the long post but I need to at least spark a discussion of the character with some facts. I don't think Jigglypuff is among the "top 5" people generally talk about but she's definitely a great character. Can't wait to have a dacus =D

Her doubleslap is pretty good. Better range and damage. Range was nerfed from brawl and doubleslap brings the range back.
Hyper voice can be situational but it's still not good.
Self-destruct has potential. It kills early and can read, edge guard and the range is huge.

 

[warriorman222]

I put self-destruct or down b 3 because people might not kno what self-destruct is

Then say Wakie Wakie?

 

[Kofu]

Wakie-Wakie (or Self-destruct as you're styling it) acts like Falcon Punch in a lot of ways. Unlike that move, though, it hits above Puff with decent reach and also hits behind her a bit. Rest has more utility but Wakie-Wakie might get a few hard-read kills and is something of a threat while winding up.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Veering back to Duck Hunt for a moment, what's up with the gunmen? I can't figure out what type of attack their gunshot counts as, since I've never seen a projectile. Can it be reflected, can she-who-must-not-be-named absorb it, what's the vertical (and horizontal) range, etc. And for the range aspect, how does the giant gunman figure into it?

 

[Twinkiepuff]

Then say Wakie Wakie?

ehh I don't like the name wakie wakie I'll just call it self-destruct

Wakie-Wakie (or Self-destruct as you're styling it) acts like Falcon Punch in a lot of ways. Unlike that move, though, it hits above Puff with decent reach and also hits behind her a bit. Rest has more utility but Wakie-Wakie might get a few hard-read kills and is something of a threat while winding up.

I feel that self-destruct is better. The windbox can mess up the opponent and also it can kill as early as rest. The range is huge it's 1.5 times bigger than falcon punch I think. I feel like it could be useful and tricky if used right

 

[Lenus Altair]

On the topic of nerfs: Just because your character had a unique characteristic doesn't mean it was good for the game. Sometimes the ability to negate some of the games fundamentals does more harm then good, especially if it goes against the design philosophy. Inevitably that revolves around achieving some kind of fun. If removing/adding something makes the game more fun for the majority of players, it's generally a good idea even if it may go against the "logic" one expects (Eating food heals wounds from guns/swords?)

On a separate note, I am so looking forward to landing tippers consistently on the console!

 

[warriorman222]

Veering back to Duck Hunt for a moment, what's up with the gunmen? I can't figure out what type of attack their gunshot counts as, since I've never seen a projectile. Can it be reflected, can she-who-must-not-be-named absorb it, what's the vertical (and horizontal) range, etc. And for the range aspect, how does the giant gunman figure into it?

Giant Gumen have more range and bigger shots. The range is about 10 of the thin guys, and 5 for the sombrero-man. it's a projectile, and when it's reflected it pierces through the gunman, OHKO them and hits you...

The vertical range s basically the barrel of the gun, as forward as i mentioned.

 

[ZHMT]

Doubleslap? Do you mean sideways pound or pound blitz? Sideways pound has more reward on hit because it sets up edgeguarding but it stops your momentum and does wayyy less shield damage, something puff needs. Its not a good trade off imho. Pound blitz launches you forward and sends them straight up, no guaranteed followups with non customs. It also does less shield damage and is less safe on block. The hitbox isn't out as long as it looks as well.

Regular pound does about 20 extra shield damage + the 11% it deals so it does far more than half a shields health. The hitbox lasts forever and hits spot dodges out of shield as well. The reward on hit isn't as good as sideways pound but you need a way to pressure their shield in the air. A few fake hops and an aerial or two and their shield is gone with pound 1, its unblockable at that point. I think she needs the move.

 

[Spirst]

Veering back to Duck Hunt for a moment, what's up with the gunmen? I can't figure out what type of attack their gunshot counts as, since I've never seen a projectile. Can it be reflected, can she-who-must-not-be-named absorb it, what's the vertical (and horizontal) range, etc. And for the range aspect, how does the giant gunman figure into it?

Looks to be transcendent priority. It goes through pretty much everything including Villager's tree and flamethrower. It can't be absorbed but it can be reflected. Each gunmen has a different firing speed/range/knockback. For example the one with the brown coat and hat fires the fastest while the one with the sombrero does the most % damage as well as fire damage but has the least range. The tall lanky one with the white shirt has the most startup speed. For Mega Gunmen, they each have a longer delay before shooting (in order to act as a wall) but have the most range.

In terms of animation, there is no visible projectile.

 

[Twinkiepuff]

Doubleslap? Do you mean sideways pound or pound blitz? Sideways pound has more reward on hit because it sets up edgeguarding but it stops your momentum and does wayyy less shield damage, something puff needs. Its not a good trade off imho. Pound blitz launches you forward and sends them straight up, no guaranteed followups with non customs. It also does less shield damage and is less safe on block. The hitbox isn't out as long as it looks as well.

Regular pound does about 20 extra shield damage + the 11% it deals so it does far more than half a shields health. The hitbox lasts forever and hits spot dodges out of shield as well. The reward on hit isn't as good as sideways pound but you need a way to pressure their shield in the air. A few fake hops and an aerial or two and their shield is gone with pound 1, its unblockable at that point. I think she needs the move.

I like pound blitz It feels more comfortable to me

 

[ZHMT]

I like pound blitz It feels more comfortable to me

If its your personal preference, go for it. But remember, the range a character has isn't only based off the range of their moves but the speed of their character air or ground. Pound 1 has plenty of range because of Puffs air speed. I can't tell you not to go with what you are comfortable with, but I do believe that pound 1 is objectively better within Jigglypuffs standard moveset.

 

[Twinkiepuff]

If its your personal preference, go for it. But remember, the range a character has isn't only based off the range of their moves but the speed of their character air or ground. Pound 1 has plenty of range because of Puffs air speed. I can't tell you not to go with what you are comfortable with, but I do believe that pound 1 is objectively better within Jigglypuffs standard moveset.

Do u feel that self-destruct is reliable?

 

[ZHMT]

Do u feel that self-destruct is reliable?

From my experience, no I do not. The move is a gimmick and you shouldn't remove a move as great as rest for something that shouldn't work. Even if it was decent, I would never remove rest 1 for it. The ability to ko opponents at 50% frame 1 is not replacable.

Picture this okay? Jiggs rest 1 is a move that has zero startup, and allows you punish moves that are otherwise safe to ko moves on block to 99% of moves in the game at the percent rest will ko at. We have Warios waft with zero charge time and faster startup with similar ko power. The better you get, the better the move becomes, not as true for self destruct.

 

[Twinkiepuff]

From my experience, no I do not. The move is a gimmick and you shouldn't remove a move as great as rest for something that shouldn't work. Even if it was decent, I would never remove rest 1 for it. The ability to ko opponents at 50% frame 1 is not replacable.

Picture this okay? Jiggs rest 1 is a move that has zero startup, and allows you punish moves that are otherwise safe to ko moves on block to 99% of moves in the game at the percent rest will ko at. We have Warios waft with zero charge time and faster startup with similar ko power. The better you get, the better the move becomes, not as true for self destruct.

I feel like it's tricky because of the wind box and it's good for reads and edge guards. I feel like it has potential and if it hits it's hard to punish but ur right. Rest is probably better

 

[Yokoblue]

I feel like it's tricky because of the wind box and it's good for reads and edge guards. I feel like it has potential and if it hits it's hard to punish but ur right. Rest is probably better

Another factor that you have to consider, people are affraid of rest at some point... Especially in the last stock. If you put selfdestruct, people no longer fear being close to you.

I think if you don't use it on hard reads, you will never use it when they are close, you will most often use it to edgeguard. I think you lose fear in opponent and a good tool. Plus its not like jigglypuff really need another edgeguard tool, she can edgeguard with pretty much her whole air game.

 

[Luco]

EDIT: Ahhh most of this was addressed and the convo was put to rest. My apologies. :/

 

[KlefkiHolder]

You claim Peach's float doesn't break a rule (i.e. multiple jumps), even though it quite clearly does.

And I was not referring to short hop aerials, Peach can press down + jump from stand still/ground movement to literally float along the ground, and use her aerials along the ground. No other character can literally use multiple aerials in a row at exact ground level. Peach can also let a full aerial come out at ground level, and therefore, perfectly avoid her landing lag. No other character can do this (at least not regularly with all of their aerials). This is definitely breaking a rule. That is, being able to punish ground level aerials thanks to landing lag disabling your opponents movement, something that is a basic mechanic in every Smash game - Peach can use float to completely ignore landing lag - also you seemed OK with Item Toss Cancel, which lets her do the same thing in another fashion, so I'm calling hypocrisy on this "ROSALINA BREAKS RULES, NERF PLOX" mindset.

Same applies to Little Mac but I've already stated time and time again why his stuff is obnoxious, today and in the past.

Keep in mind though - I don't think there is anything wrong with Peach and Little Mac being able to do these things. But if you still think what Rosalina can do is a problem, then you are obligated to think the same about Little Mac and Peach.

Also keep in mind that Peach's Item Toss Cancel doesn't offset any weakness of hers since float already exists, it's just another strength in an otherwise very solid character.



Confirmation bias at it's finest.

But. Peach has multiple jumps? Also the whole sh aerial thing is because you said Peach can use her aerials right above the ground that breaks rules, even though sh aerials substitute this. Ik how to float, I understand the concept. Peach doesn't really hit with multiple aerials in one float, but you are right in that Dair can get more hits in. Yay.

I never said I was fine with TLC. I mentioned it because it is key tech to Peach rhat is being changed. Remember how when I brought it up you were complaining about how Rose mains are the only ones being forced to adapt? Peach mains are too (along with many others). So maybe stop putting words into my mouth when you call me out for disregarding parts of your argument?

For the record I want TLC gone because it well... Its stupid.

The whole thing about Peach and Mac... You know my stance on Rose's grab punishing, I've said that Macs armor should be toned down a tad, and I just threw TLC under the bus so.....

Sorry it took me a while to get to this... Been busy irl

 

[Luco]

Also Sheik would be Ness' second hardest match-up I believe. She forces him to approach and she has an incredible combo game that Ness finds difficult to go against and her aerials can actually challenge Ness' in select situations. I think the Sheik MU is 60:40 or maybe 55:45, the Rosa MU is in a similar boat (though at top level it might be closer to even now). Sonic and Yoshi I suspect are evenish and... actually i'm not sure who we beat out at this stage who's in top tier. Probably Lucario.

Hmmmm :o

 

[Twinkiepuff]

I feel that jigglypuff is really good this game in happy that she was greatly buffed

 

[otter]

are default moves ever better than customs? it kind of seems like just a grinding mechanic rather than a choice.

Also Sheik would be Ness' second hardest match-up I believe. She forces him to approach and she has an incredible combo game that Ness finds difficult to go against and her aerials can actually challenge Ness' in select situations. I think the Sheik MU is 60:40 or maybe 55:45, the Rosa MU is in a similar boat (though at top level it might be closer to even now). Sonic and Yoshi I suspect are evenish and... actually i'm not sure who we beat out at this stage who's in top tier. Probably Lucario.

Hmmmm :o

I think rosalina beats ness much easier than that.

 

[Crescent_Sun]

Frequently, yes. There are a lot of situational choice you want to make. Many of Mega Man's customs for example are very match up dependent, and from what I hear, ZSS doesn't have too much use for her customs. There isn't too much reason not to use Villager's default pocket, some of JPuff's defaults like we literally just discussed, etc. If you put in the work you'll see what's better for you and what is it. In the end it is still a choice. Sometimes some characters feel less about it than others, but preference will be preference.

 

[otter]

Frequently, yes. There are a lot of situational choice you want to make. Many of Mega Man's customs for example are very match up dependent, and from what I hear, ZSS doesn't have too much use for her customs. There isn't too much reason not to use Villager's default pocket, some of JPuff's defaults like we literally just discussed, etc. If you put in the work you'll see what's better for you and what is it. In the end it is still a choice. Sometimes some characters feel less about it than others, but preference will be preference.

I have absolutely no interest in grinding for or using customs, I was just curious. Thanks for the answer

 

[meleebrawler]

Maybe we should stop talking about Jiggly's specials
and more about her normals, which are what you're going
to use about 80% of the time anyway with Jigglypuff.

Her specials all have very niche uses (possible exception of pound)
and aren't really huge parts of her game.

 

[Z'zgashi]

On the topic of DH, Zig Zag Can (or whatever its called) is godlike and lets him control any part of the stage he pleases at any time, that move alone makes him at least high tier.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Yall talking bout customs which will probably get banned. I dont want to say the discussion is pointless, but......