Character Competitive Impressions

[otter]

It is from a competitive point of view.

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

Why would customs be banned? It's not like they're over powered. They add variety to match ups, they also give characters more options that their normal specials may not provide. Upper Cutter for Instance really helps aid Kirby's recovery, it also allows him some nifty gimps and KO options normal cutter doesn't give him.

Banning equipment on the other hand, that totally makes sense.

 

[otter]

it's already becoming impossible to learn all the matchups and most competitive players have no interest in grinding single player modes.

Plus, there will already be modded versions of the game with better changes for those that are interested.

 

[meleebrawler]

I wouldn't mind if they went defaults only on Wii U for a bit
if it was unlocking issues.

Palutena would cry if they never allowed customs ever.

The worst part, though, is that no customs might mean banning
Miis outright, because they literally DO NOT have a default moveset.
Even when playing with customs off, they still get to use all
of their moves.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

The worst part, though, is that no customs might mean banning
Miis outright, because they literally DO NOT have a default moveset.

Sure they do. Special Options 1-1-1-1 straight down the board.

 

[meleebrawler]

Sure they do. Special Options 1-1-1-1 straight down the board.

But is it REALLY their default when the game doesn't limit them
to these when playing without customs?

 

[HeroMystic]

Why would customs be banned?

Customs are balanced, but it's a pain the ass to get all of them for every character. Unless Nintendo makes it easier to get customs, we're gonna have to start transferring 100% files to every WiiU.

 

[Z'zgashi]

But is it REALLY their default when the game doesn't limit them
to these when playing without customs?

Yes

 

[PK Gaming]

it's already becoming impossible to learn all the matchups and most competitive players have no interest in grinding single player modes.

Plus, there will already be modded versions of the game with better changes for those that are interested.

"Impossible to learn all the matchups" is a pointless hyperbole. Several 3DS custom tournaments have shown us that this simply isn't true for most players.

That said, the tediousness of unlocking all of them in the Wii U version is a legitimate consideration...

 

[Chuva]

it's already becoming impossible to learn all the matchups and most competitive players have no interest in grinding single player modes.

In other games such as SF4 people have to learn different approaches of the same match-up (different ultras) and it's even more so in UMVC3 where there are so many possible assist variants for your point character (Morrigan with and without Doom's missiles are two different beasts). I don't think competitive players of those games find it too much of a hassle.

I agree that grinding them is problematic. Isn't there any feature to transfer them between Wii U's? (I know there is one between 3DS and Wii U)

 

[Emblem Lord]

Right now the issue is logistics. You need to unlock every custom on the wii u. Several for tourney set ups. Thats alot of grinding.

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

So what about Mewtwo then, will he likely be banned since he's DLC only?

 

[san.]

Make people responsible for their own customs with their 3ds until we slowly unlock them all. People reliant on customs without a 3ds would need to check with the TO or other players beforehand if someone has a specific custom set unlocked.

 

[Z'zgashi]

People really over exaggerate how custom moves effect learning a match up, its not that hard honestly.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I'm sure the inevitable day 1 tournaments and get-togethers will have customs banned for simplicity if nothing else. But in 2015 we'll have had a month + a couple of weeks to unlock everything, which if we assume a roughly even efficiency with the 3DS version should be more than doable. If transferring saves via SD cards works then we literally only need one person with everything unlocked, then they can upload their save and TOs everywhere can download it. (That's a rather big if...)

If Apex and other big name tournaments ban customs I'll be highly disappointed, I'd expect them to have the manpower to work through this sort of logistics.

This...

it's already becoming impossible to learn all the matchups and most competitive players have no interest in grinding single player modes.

Plus, there will already be modded versions of the game with better changes for those that are interested.

Is completely meaningless. Matchups are matchups and I will bet money that each character will eventually converge on a single "optimum" custom set, with possible variances for specific matchups but the point stands that it's highly unlikely you will have to worry about facing a 2313 Mario one round and then watch him switch to 3221 the next round. (That's Fast Fireball/Gust Cape/Super Jump Punch/High Pressure FLUDD and Fire Orb/Shocking Cape/Super Jump/FLUDD.)

SFIV didn't get massively complex with different Ultras, MvC doesn't worry about the assists you pick, why should Smash be any different?

Also it's really presumptuous to dismiss it on the basis of future mods when AFAIK the system hasn't been hacked yet. It's also unfair to the game itself and the people who play it, especially when it's not even released yet.

 

[Emblem Lord]

From my understanding you cant just use an sd card to transfer the data from system to system. Nintendo really dropped the ball here.

 

[popsofctown]

Except you're still mashing the buttons for Luma to get you out.

Also, in response to long ago post about Peach's unique floating...
Everyone can float with a Super Leaf

*button

 

[Spinosaurus]

So what about Mewtwo then, will he likely be banned since he's DLC only?

DLC characters are never banned in fighting games. See: Shuma Gorath and Jill in Marvel vs Capcom 3.
Shuma was even in top 8 last EVO.

 

[popsofctown]

Customs should be legal. If they're not on the wii, use your DS. If you don't have a DS, you'll have to play default.

If customs are banned because not everyone has them, I want gamecube controllers banned because having a c-stick is a clear advantage and the ones i have are too old to use. Everyone should reduce the complexity of the game we play and stoop down to my level to account for my own lack of access to a gamecube controller.

 

[ChikoLad]

Customs should not be a problem in regards to unlocking.

Considering how unlocking all of the customs was not a primary focus for me at first, I'm getting them very quickly. I nearly have every single one (have 8 more characters to go), and it hasn't even been 2 months with the game.

If you went straight into this game with the mindset of "I'm gonna get all of the customs as my first objective in this game", you'd get them pretty promptly. I only started focusing on them within the last two weeks - and even then, only really grind for them on bus journeys.

This is keeping in mind that most of my time with this game has been spent doing every mode with every character, grinding for trophies in Trophy Rush, and playing online. These tasks led me to pick up quite a few customs naturally, but if you focused on customs from the get go, it'd be much quicker.

While Smash Run doesn't exist in the Wii U version, Crazy Orders seems like it will be a gold mine for anyone grinding for customs. Plus, Classic Mode still seems fine for it too. So I see no issue.

And if you really don't want to grind for them on Wii U, grind for the customs for all of your mains on 3DS. Then make your custom sets on 3DS. Then they are ready for Wii U. Simple.

 

[warriorman222]

I have like 20 customs to go, and never have I focused on them for more than half an hour a day It's not that hard.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

You can't unlock custom moves from the 3DS transfer. You have to start all over again.

 

[PK Gaming]

Customs should be legal. If they're not on the wii, use your DS. If you don't have a DS, you'll have to play default.

If customs are banned because not everyone has them, I want gamecube controllers banned because having a c-stick is a clear advantage and the ones i have are too old to use. Everyone should reduce the complexity of the game we play and stoop down to my level to account for my own lack of access to a gamecube controller.

That's definitely a flawed comparison.

You're asking tournament players to have has access to a 3DS AND Smash Bros 3DS. Your gamecube comparison is flawed because controllers are infinitely cheaper.

 

[Thinkaman]

You can't unlock custom moves from the 3DS transfer. You have to start all over again.

Yes, but the transferred sets can be used indefinitely.

I can take my 3DS, walk up to any WiiU, and permanently give it 99% of the custom sets anyone would ever want to us in a few minutes.

That's definitely an unfair comparison.

You're asking tournament players to have has access to a 3DS AND Smash Bros 3DS. Your gamecube comparison is flawed because controller are infinitely cheaper.

Except what you're really asking for is for any person at the event or any past event that WiiU has been used at to have a 3DS with stuff unlocked.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Yes, but the transferred sets can be used indefinitely.

Frustrating but I'll take it.

 

[ChikoLad]

You can't unlock custom moves from the 3DS transfer. You have to start all over again.

But if you have them on 3DS, you can still make a custom set on 3DS, import it, and use it just fine.

Even if you don't have a custom unlocked on Wii U, you can still import sets from 3DS that use customs. You can use them, but you just cannot edit them from your Wii U (and vice versa if you import one from Wii U to 3DS).

Considering how most competitive players have the 3DS version, it's just a matter of unlocking the customs for your character/s of choice on 3DS NOW (and if you only care about one character, you could probably accomplish this in two or three trips to the bathroom), making the set you need on 3DS, and importing it to a tournament's Wii U.

You do not have to unlock every single custom move if you don't want to. If you only care about competitively using two or three characters, just unlock the ones for those characters. Furthermore, if you want to use the default sets with the exception of ONE move for your character, just unlock that one move.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Yes, but the transferred sets can be used indefinitely.

I can take my 3DS, walk up to any WiiU, and permanently give it 99% of the custom sets anyone would ever want to us in a few minutes.

Except what you're really asking for is for any person at the event or any past event that WiiU has been used at to have a 3DS with stuff unlocked.

It's still a nightmare scenario for logistics. That's even more prep time, especially since attendance at larger scale tourneys will probably consist of people that may not have these sets or access to somebody with a 3DS. Imagine importing all of those movesets but for, oh, 100 plus?

Smooth Criminal

 

[warriorman222]

Yes, but the transferred sets can be used indefinitely.

I can take my 3DS, walk up to any WiiU, and permanently give it 99% of the custom sets anyone would ever want to us in a few minutes.



Except what you're really asking for is for any person at the event or any past event that WiiU has been used at to have a 3DS with stuff unlocked.

Basically meaning that since a lot of people here have all customs, it won't be a problem if one of the many people happen to be at that tourney.

 

[popsofctown]

That's definitely a flawed comparison.

You're asking tournament players to have has access to a 3DS AND Smash Bros 3DS. Your gamecube comparison is flawed because controllers are infinitely cheaper.

My 2ds cost 100 bucks. Game goes for 40 bucks. Wii U gamecube controller goes for 30 bucks. The Gamecube controllers decay and have to be replaced, so that can be a recurring cost. It's apples and apples to me.
Customs add 5 times as much to the game as a c-stick does.

 

[PK Gaming]

Yes, but the transferred sets can be used indefinitely.

I can take my 3DS, walk up to any WiiU, and permanently give it 99% of the custom sets anyone would ever want to us in a few minutes.



Except what you're really asking for is for any person at the event or any past event that WiiU has been used at to have a 3DS with stuff unlocked.

Ah, interesting I hadn't thought of that. I suppose that makes it less of tedious endeavor.

 

[Thinkaman]

The key here is that you only have to spend a few minutes to transfer sets if WiiU that does not just have everything unlocked and has not had sets transferred previously.

Once you fix a setup, it's fixed forever. Like a pet.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

"Gamecube controllers decay?" Not if you know how to take care of them. You can add years onto them if you take the time to.

Your example is still flawed.

Okay, great, @ Thinkaman , but that's still a lot of **** to account for, especially when you go to inter-regional stuff that may or may not be like "wat do" with customs. It's going to be a pain in the ass either way.

On that note, is there a stickied topic on transferring customs? I do think it is a good idea to get people that can do this going so that we have a rote/routine.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Thinkaman]

My 2ds cost 100 bucks. Game goes for 40 bucks. Wii U gamecube controller goes for 30 bucks. The Gamecube controllers decay and have to be replaced, so that can be a recurring cost. It's apples and apples to me.

I'm gonna inject that I do think this is a flawed comparison. Competitors should not be required or expected to have a 3DS, smash 3DS, and stuff unlocked.

However, what is a reasonable assumption, is that someone there does.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I'm gonna inject that I do think this is a flawed comparison. Competitors should not be required or expected to have a 3DS, smash 3DS, and stuff unlocked.

This, too.

However, what is a reasonable assumption, is that someone there does.

"We will waive the venue fee if you bring setups!*"

*FULL setups for Smash Wii U include a 3DS with Smash 3DS!

Smooth Criminal

 

[popsofctown]

I'd almost certainly quit Smash 4 if customs are banned, widespread. I would buy a 2ds and cartridge again if that were necessary to play. But I do not want to invest large amounts of time, which is much more valuable to me, in a game that is so much less than what it could be.

 

[Thinkaman]

"We will waive the venue fee if you bring setups!*"

*FULL setups for Smash Wii U include a 3DS with Smash 3DS!

Smooth Criminal

Naw, that's not necessary. Not unless the TO doesn't have a 3DS, and doesn't know anyone attending who does.

Let's be real; like, at least half of people at most events are going to have a 3DS.

I'd almost certainly quit Smash 4 if customs are banned, widespread. I would buy a 2ds and cartridge again if that were necessary to play. But I do not want to invest large amounts of time, which is much more valuable to me, in a game that is so much less than what it could be.

Threatening to "quit smash 4" is kinda melodramatic.

I mean, I'm not attending any hypothetical events with certain moves (or characters) banned, but I'm a TO so your variance may mileage. Other people somewhere far away playing a game in a stupid way doesn't make the real game any less fun.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I feel custom moves needs to be an on-going discussion.

 

[Thinkaman]

I feel custom moves needs to be an on-going discussion.

In what way?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I'd almost certainly quit Smash 4 if customs are banned, widespread. I would buy a 2ds and cartridge again if that were necessary to play. But I do not want to invest large amounts of time, which is much more valuable to me, in a game that is so much less than what it could be.

I'm not advocating for the ban of customs or anything. I want them to be a thing because they spruce up the game nicely. I'm just being pragmatic about getting everything organized is all.

But, quitting the game over a lack of customs from banning or what...? C'mon, dude. Smash 4 is a pretty alright game in default mode right now.

Naw, that's not necessary. Not unless the TO doesn't have a 3DS, and doesn't know anyone attending who does.

Let's be real; like, at least half of people at most events are going to have a 3DS.

Half? I give it a quarter of the attendees that will have one.

Truth be told, I really don't see this being a problem for locals. I'm mainly looking at the bigger tournaments, like regionals and nationals.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Emblem Lord]

From what im reading they will probably be banned at apex.

Its not looking good.