Character Competitive Impressions

[Balgorxz]

changing robins ground speed?
robin is supposed to be the slowest character in the ground, sakurai should compensate with making him a little faster in the air and making thoron charge faster, I doubt he is going to remove his weakness.

 

[Sinister Slush]

It looks normal to me honestly. Just getting out of the egg when the color animation still happening, and it's #t=1m08s at the end of the link for YT stuff.

 

[HeavyLobster]

On the subject of doubles teams: I'd imagine Ganondorf would be amazing with a support character like Sheik and Villager that can make up for his safety problems. He should probably never be used as a supporting character.

Ganon's version of "saving you" is making you die faster so you don't suffer as long.

True. Ganon is very good in doubles when it comes to controlling his space and punishing you brutally for venturing into it. He's not so good when it comes to helping out his teammate due to his poor mobility and the fact that anything he throws out has kill potential. A character who can handle 2v1s and is fast enough to bail him out of trouble from time to time is generally what you want. Beyond this you've got a fair amount of flexibility with what you can do, but extra bonus points are awarded for characters with good edgeguarding to play off of Ftilts, stun moves, and at least one or two strong kill moves that can cover Flame Choke setups. Meta Knight and custom Pika on paper seem like great fits, but there are other good options as well.

 

[NachoOfCheese]

Can we stop asking for attribute changes like making Mewtwo heavier and stuff? They have made no such change in any of the patches thus far and it doesn't look like that's going to change.

 

[Speed Boost]

Can we stop asking for attribute changes like making Mewtwo heavier and stuff? They have made no such change in any of the patches thus far and it doesn't look like that's going to change.

I agree 100%, but I would rather have them asking to make the average characters good instead of making the good characters average.

 

[Real Smooth-Like]

Guys... How's Wii Fit Trainer holdin up? I haven't heard anything about her in a minute...

 

[TriTails]

changing robins ground speed?
robin is supposed to be the slowest character in the ground, sakurai should compensate with making him a little faster in the air and making thoron charge faster, I doubt he is going to remove his weakness.

Robin can get a faster dashing speed on the same day D3 get an airspeed buff.

Now that I think of it.
D3's erespid: 0.65xxx
Luigi's erespid: 0.73xxx
Ganon's erespid: 0.79
Kirby's erespid: 0.8

Oh my.

Why the **** the bottom two is as far as Earth to Neptune to 3rd and 4th slowest.

Btw, @ Emblem Lord , what do you think about Marth vs Luigi?

 

[herpyderpherper]

I think Bowser would be a great doubles partner, he would benifit most from someone with amazing recovery to help him back out if he needs it, he also needs someone who can break him out of juggles and combos, I think sheik, villy would be amazing, and maybe sonic

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Depends. Bowser is OK if the person using him isn't brainless.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Why does he lose to link? I'm curious.

Also, how do you think Marth's fares against Pac-Man? Before his buffs, the matchup was ok because trampoline and hydrant traps kept him honest, but how do these buffs change the matchup?

Link's grab. That's it really. Free punishes on block. Other then that Marth actually wins imo. But grab is longer so Marth's nair buff doesnt mean much in this match.

I think Pac-man vs Marth is still even but I might be bias because I like Pac-man alot design wise and I really respect the thought and ingenuity from his community of players as well as that which his playstyle at a high level demands.

Marth vs Luigi may favor Marth slightly now just because Marth can more effectively keep Luigi out then he could before so now it's much more balanced on both sides. Marth has less vulnerable holes in his control/poke game for Luigi to take advantage of and get grab confirms. Marth is much safer on block against Luigi too due to his sliding in his shield when he gets poked. If Marth does win I don't think its huge though. The better player should win.

This is all default btw. Custom Marth I feel stomps both of them. Grab release to CS is pure jank garbage.

 

[TriTails]

Marth has less vulnerable holes in his control/poke game for Luigi to take advantage of and get grab confirms. Marth is much safer on block against Luigi too due to his sliding in his shield when he gets poked. If Marth does win I don't think its huge though. The better player should win.

55:45 Marth? Sound about right.

This is all default btw. Custom Marth I feel stomps both of them. Grab release to CS is pure jank garbage.

I need to test out Cresent Slash. I wonder what kind of jank it has?

And btw, Luigi can grab release to jab. Nothing huge, just about 16%-19% off a grab...

 

[Emblem Lord]

Basically if Marth grabs certain chars near the ledge and they are over 100%, they are dead.

 

[A2ZOMG]

On the subject of Robin, he needs a better DA and/or faster Jab transition to cover his dead zone, sorta like what Ike got this patch.

I'd also either suggest a better KO throw on him, or universal damage increases to all of his throws. It's probably okay for his grab game to have limited followups, but it really doesn't do enough for him.

Link's grab. That's it really/ Free punishes on block. Other then that Marth actually wins imo. But grab is longer so Marth's nair buff doesnt mean much in this match.

I think Pac-man vs Marth is still even but I might be bias because I like Pac-man alot design wise and I really respect the thought and ingenuity from his community of players as well as that which his playstyle at a high level demands.

Marth vs Luigi may favor Marth slightly now just because Marth can more effectively keep Luigi out then he could before so now it's much more balanced on both sides. Marth has less vulnerable holes in his control/poke game for Luigi to take advantage of and get grab confirms. Marth is much safer on block against Luigi too due to his sliding in his shield when he gets poked. If Marth does win I don't think its huge though. The better player should win.

This is all default btw. Custom Marth I feel stomps both of them. Grab release to CS is pure jank garbage.

Link also has really good tools on Marth's negative state. D-air is really consistent for edgeguarding Marth's Up-B, U-air actually can outrange Counter, and U-smash is not only powerful, it's not exceptionally risky to charge against Counter due to being multihit. It's not just simply the grab range, just to be clear.

 

[Luco]

Basically if Marth grabs certain chars near the ledge and they are over 100%, they are dead.

I wonder where I've heard that before...?

Imo if you're going to buff mewtwo outside of weight, I would buff confusion and his aerials. Imo if Mewtwo had the godly Uair someone like Falcon had along with a stronger/faster Bair, I think he'd be pretty strong.

 

[Smog Frog]

just make everything kill 20-30% earlier. now he kills his opponents as fast as they kill him.

 

[Luco]

just make everything kill 20-30% earlier. now he kills his opponents as fast as they kill him.

That'd be one hell of a Uthrow.

 

[Smog Frog]

That'd be one hell of a Uthrow.

thats how strong it was in melee

and if his weight isnt gonna change, i'd rather play a very high risk/very high reward character than a very high risk/high reward character.

 

[Emblem Lord]

On the subject of Robin, he needs a better DA and/or faster Jab transition to cover his dead zone, sorta like what Ike got this patch.

I'd also either suggest a better KO throw on him, or universal damage increases to all of his throws. It's probably okay for his grab game to have limited followups, but it really doesn't do enough for him.

Link also has really good tools on Marth's negative state. D-air is really consistent for edgeguarding Marth's Up-B, U-air actually can outrange Counter, and U-smash is not only powerful, it's not exceptionally risky to charge against Counter due to being multihit. It's not just simply the grab range, just to be clear.

Yeah, however it's the grab that creates the negative state generally. Link in neutral always has enough to keep Marth honest, but Marth just outdid him due to safety and having a great advantage state. Link's grab really changes the match dynamics.

It's not horrible though. 6/4 Link. Nothing to cry about.

I'm sure Marths will still cry.

*shrug

 

[Radical Larry]

@ Emblem Lord Link does have a better disjoint than Marth, and his projectiles make him rethink strategies. If Link goes at Marth with bombs ablaze, there's so many things that can and will happen. Link's also got so many setups with Bombs and his N-Air, it's scary.

 

[Vipermoon]

Marth beats Link in disjoint. Marth also has more sword attacks. Link will only outrange Marth in Fsmash and (barely) Dsmash.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Can we talk about Jigglypuff? I don't think she is that good, and she will get lower as the meta develops, since people will know how to shield better to completely counter her. What are your guys thoughts?

 

[Smog Frog]

shielding doesnt counter . while she may not have any followups, she has one of the best dashgrabs, probably the fastest 3% pummel, and every throw does 10% and puts you in a bad spot.

 

[Nu~]

Trela taking out Shieks with charizard.
Always wished for a day like this.

 

[busken]

Does Lucas have a bad MU against Sheik? He has z-air and pk fire to combat sheik's aerial dominance but is that enough? I think Ness gets bodied by Sheik so i would imagine lucas does as well. Also with the rosalina MU, where she can down b pk thunder but lucas has z-air and more aerial mobility so idk.

 

[A_Kae]

Does Lucas have a bad MU against Sheik? He has z-air and pk fire to combat sheik's aerial dominance but is that enough? I think Ness gets bodied by Sheik so i would imagine lucas does as well. Also with the rosalina MU, where she can down b pk thunder but lucas has z-air and more aerial mobility so idk.

Everyone has a bad matchup against Sheik.

Or even I suppose. But most are bad.

 

[Spinosaurus]

shielding doesnt counter . while she may not have any followups, she has one of the best dashgrabs, probably the fastest 3% pummel, and every throw does 10% and puts you in a bad spot.

Err no she doesn't.

Sides, if you see her going for the dashgrab, roll back to safety. She has NO answer to that.

 

[Smog Frog]

Err no she doesn't.

Sides, if you see her going for the dashgrab, roll back to safety. She has NO answer to that.

cant she dash attack? thats really good too

 

[busken]

cant she dash attack? thats really good too

no.

 

[Spinosaurus]

cant she dash attack? thats really good too

If she could, definitely not with the sweetspot. She's unfortunately too slow.

 

[Miles_himself]

Is this the place where I can rant about why Mac hasn't been nerfed harder yet?
I mean, everyone who doesn't play Mac, hates Mac. Literally as strong as the Hulk, little to no lag on any attack ever, near guaranteed smash attacks due to armor, and an instakill. Whether skill is even required to play him is always debatable. His lack of aerial mobility is irrelevant completely. I struggled fighting Mac as I played as Roy. Not to mention he's like one of the fastest in the game.

I'll wait for replies before I start talking about how stupid Pikachu is.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

Is this the place where I can rant about why Mac hasn't been nerfed harder yet?
I mean, everyone who doesn't play Mac, hates Mac. Literally as strong as the Hulk, little to no lag on any attack ever, near guaranteed smash attacks due to armor, and an instakill. Whether skill is even required to play him is always debatable. His lack of aerial mobility is irrelevant completely. I struggled fighting Mac as I played as Roy. Not to mention he's like one of the fastest in the game.

I'll wait for replies before I start talking about how stupid Pikachu is.

I hate to bring in the hard news, but you think Little Mac is too good because chances are, you aren't playing at a top or even high level. Little Mac is not a top-tier threat in this game by a long shot.

 

[meleebrawler]

Is this the place where I can rant about why Mac hasn't been nerfed harder yet?
I mean, everyone who doesn't play Mac, hates Mac. Literally as strong as the Hulk, little to no lag on any attack ever, near guaranteed smash attacks due to armor, and an instakill. Whether skill is even required to play him is always debatable. His lack of aerial mobility is irrelevant completely. I struggled fighting Mac as I played as Roy. Not to mention he's like one of the fastest in the game.

I'll wait for replies before I start talking about how stupid Pikachu is.

Platforms stymie his game badly (except Battlefield's lower ones which he can usmash), has very little to defend
himself from juggles and strings and his recovery is prone to being gimped if he makes even a small mistake.
For Glory makes him seem better than he really is what with lag and no platforms.

Also, just because you struggle at fighting him with a particular character you like using doesn't make him
broken.

I suppose your Pikachu rant will involve how difficult he is to catch in the air and how easy it is for him to gimp your Roy?

 

[wedl!!]

and then you figure that mac has the worst disadvantaged state in the game and is a featherweight

and then you figure that his only good stages are tnc/fd

and then you figure that he is nearly as difficult to play as or at a high level due to his crippling flaws

\ (. u .) /

 

[Miles_himself]

Platforms stymie his game badly (except Battlefield's lower ones which he can usmash), has very little to defend
himself from juggles and strings and his recovery is prone to being gimped if he makes even a small mistake.
For Glory makes him seem better than he really is what with lag and no platforms.

Also, just because you struggle at fighting him with a particular character you like using doesn't make him
broken.

I suppose your Pikachu rant will involve how difficult he is to catch in the air and how easy it is for him to gimp your Roy?

I totally understand what you're saying, and it's really hard to just go " yeah okay, he's not that great" when losing to him repeatedly. I'm totally aware of his weaknesses, but the Mac players are getting smarter, I can't just back throw into an aerial to take a stock from them anymore. He's hard for me to approach (possibly due to Roy's lack of approach options) and gets WAY too heavy of a punish in my opinion. I understand that he's truly an awful character, but if he is, it should feel like it when fighting him. Maybe if he had a bit more end lag on smashes it would even thin out, since he has super armor already. Not to mention that for glory inadvertently favors scrubby rolling. It just feels impossible to punish him since he has like no lag on anything. I wish I knew enough players to where I didn't have to use for glory for practice.


Anyway, my beef with Pikachu is simple.

He also tends to lack a precise hand to achieve victory.

I was using Ike (thank Daddy Sakurai he got buffed) and All Pika has to do is get me offstage and press B. There goes my stock, nothing I can do about it.

I guess at the end of the day, I wish that the 90% of the cast didn't have the stupid things they have that make the game feel unfair for certain characters. What I'm trying to say is, I wish balance patches really balanced everything. I think a nice change that could be made to Ike would be to give him armor during his entire up B, not just startup.

I hate to bring in the hard news, but you think Little Mac is too good because chances are, you aren't playing at a top or even high level. Little Mac is not a top-tier threat in this game by a long shot.

I really don't even think Mac is good. He's terrible. But that should be reflected when I'm fighting him. His crippling weaknesses aren't made apparent enough.

 

[PUK]

The thing you have to understand is that you fight a player, not a character.

 

[Miles_himself]

You all seem to know what you're talking about. If you don't mind, add me for Wii U and I'd like to play some of you. I'm going for a jog to clear my head first, but when I return, I wanna see if my practice actually amounts to what is considered, "high level play."

 

[KuroganeHammer]

You're probably not going to find high level play here.

 

[Miles_himself]

You're probably not going to find high level play here.

It's worth a try, if you ask me.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

It's worth a try, if you ask me.

Regardless, this is a place for meta discussion; not asking to play people discussion.

 

[Mizzy Moe]

it may be just me but i feel like rob and dedede are underrated everytime i play a good one of either of them i have a terribly hard time getting the ko if not just damage and more time than not i come out with a loss