Character Competitive Impressions

[Nidtendofreak]

Were they good changes? Like, is he faster in the air?

Really hard to tell that kind of thing in comparison to Melee and then to Marth in SSB4.

-Different Dair (looks more like Ike's)
-Fsmash is a two handed swing
-Neutral B is Melee's animation, fully charge 1SKs
-Ftilt is... rather different. Looks kinda like Ike's Utilt if it had a bit more of a forward aspect to it I guess? Its hard to describe.
-Apparently Up B and Counter's animations are different, though they look very similar to me
-Fair has a bit of a different animation
-New taunts and new idle animation
-Side B is freaking fast

---

Ryu apparently has two different neutral Bs to go along with his two different Final Smashes. Blue hadouken is knockback version, red is multi-hitting and damage. He looks rather interesting, though his Side B looks kinda like crap. Down B causing crumple state is pretty cool.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Also, could I just take a moment to say how many character boards believe Sonic is their worst MU? I know Ness mains think he is, I'm pretty sure DHD mains think he is and now Pac mains? I rarely hear that someone else is a character's worst MU except for sheik.

I think Sonic is one of Shulk's worst matchups too.

But just based on how Sonic is designed as a character he can generally shut down quite a number of characters.

 

[|RK|]

We are turning into a social thread people. Until confirmed by Sakurai himself and we see LEGIT game play or is mass released, can we calm down a bit? I admit that I'm excited for this too, but we gotta stick to our thread topic and analyze CURRENT and PALPABLE characters at hand. Until they are mass released, we should quell the talks of the unreleased and go to the social threads.


I'm sorry if I'm coming off as a party pooper, but that's how I see it.

Well it's coming out tomorrow. Speculation doesn't hurt. In order, though... Lucas is best for discussion, since we have a full video and he was in the last game. Then Roy - we have two chars from Melee over now - it's reasonable to discuss how he'll be changed (especially with Ike and Lucina playing the strong swordsmen roles). Finally Ryu, because we know Jack **** about him.

 

[Pyr]

Well, and this guy is actively streaming a demo, if the quality of that demo is ****. http://www.twitch.tv/crediar

Jesus Ryu has TWO final smashes. I hope he comes out tomorrow.

 

[ZarroTsu]

Jesus Ryu has TWO final smashes. I hope he comes out tomorrow.

I've also been informed (or it is speculated) that he has specific inputs on some of his (B?) moves. ie. stronger version of hadoken (if entered as a hadoken??)

Spoiler

Meanwhile Roy is a lovely blend between Marth (movement) and Ike (tilts, smashes), with a 20% uncharged fsmash and his insta-kill neutral B.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Lucas's Dthrow seems different. It had a burying effect in the middle of it (but didn't last until the end). Don't think its a kill smash anymore.

Dtilt looks different from what I remember in Brawl as well. It was more of a spammy kick than a sweep in Brawl right?

 

[FullMoon]

Lucas's Dthrow seems different. It had a burying effect in the middle of it (but didn't last until the end). Don't think its a kill smash anymore.

Dtilt looks different from what I remember in Brawl as well. It was more of a spammy kick than a sweep in Brawl right?

Lucas killed Kirby at 130% with Up-Throw and no rage. So if D-Throw doesn't kill anymore, Up-Throw does.

 

[Kofu]

Lucas's Dthrow seems different. It had a burying effect in the middle of it (but didn't last until the end). Don't think its a kill smash anymore.

Dtilt looks different from what I remember in Brawl as well. It was more of a spammy kick than a sweep in Brawl right?

No, Ness's is a spammy kick, Lucas's DTilr was a sweep (similar effects though)

 

[Pyr]

Going by that stream, looks like Dreamland's wind effect is about the same as Melee's. So no broken ****!

Spoiler

Until we get a thread where someone complains that it should be banned because of it, then it takes 50 pages for the thread to die.

 

[Unknownkid]

Man... I am starting to feel Sakurai's Rage from here. It was going to be one more day. Just one more day before the release.

 

[NachoOfCheese]

Man... I am starting to feel Sakurai's Rage from here. It was going to be one more day. Just one more day before the release.

This is why the rage mechanic was implemented. It represents Sakurai's fury.

 

[Hippieslayer]

So Trela just beat Aerolink's Palutena with 1111 Swordfighter. I confess I'm shocked.

Gale Strike seemed key (and the commentators noted this too) since it forces Palutena to stop and shield it, putting a damper on her usual speed shenanigans.

Meh, it's because Aerolink refuses to use the ranged command grab that is explosive flame. Makes staying at midrange and shooting him with ranged attacks safe, as well as staying at midrange and baiting his approaches.

That's why Aerolink struggles with speedsters and characters which use ranged attacks to shut down his approaches. If he used Explosive flame he would have a ranged command which puts opponents in a disadvantaged position, one which can be capitalized upon quite heavily if lightweight is active. That move is insane if you learn to use it properly with b-reverses etc, it can be comboed into from fair and a bunch of stuff, can be used to KO people as well when used as an edgeguarding tool.

Aerolink is gimping himself by sticking to Auto-Reticle.

That being said he would've won against swordfighter if it wasn't for screwups and MU inexperience. He was beginning to dominate Trela when he lost.

 

[FullMoon]

Man... I am starting to feel Sakurai's Rage from here. It was going to be one more day. Just one more day before the release.

I feel bad for him, really. It wasn't even entirely the leakers fault either because it all happened because of an early patch.

 

[NachoOfCheese]

I feel bad for him, really. It wasn't even entirely the leakers fault either because it all happened because of an early patch.

...go on

 

[FullMoon]

...go on

What?

The patch was launched early in Japan by accident and people downloaded it and hackers managed to datamine it. So it's kinda Nintendo's fault that this happened.

 

[NachoOfCheese]

What?

The patch was launched early in Japan by accident and people downloaded it and hackers managed to datamine it. So it's kinda Nintendo's fault that this happened.

Oh okay I actually didn't know that lol.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Okay guys, how about a little less speculation on newbies. Here is a link that explains every single move of the new fighters that has info directly from the game. Go nuts.

 

[|RK|]

54 characters now? That's 1431 matchups if my math's right.

 

[Ffamran]

Stop talking about stuff that isn't officially out yet. I'm not a mod for this part of the forums - only the Falco boards -, but seriously, I don't want any of you getting warnings or infractions because you're so hyped up about Lucas, Ryu, Roy, Dreamland, etc. I'm hyped too and I'm watching Roy's stuff, but for now, please don't discuss stuff not everyone can access since it falls into speculation and we know how Shaya feels about speculation.

Honestly, as a human like everyone else, but I do suspect someone here isn't and is some superhuman or robot... *cough*ZeRo*cough.

Anyway, thing is I'm really hyped about seeing characters introduced because fans of whatever character can play them. I just found my new secondary with Roy because while I did like him in Melee and PM, I could not stand his in-game voice which was a shame since his victory quotes sounded so badass. It was so inconsistent where you'd have Roy sounding like a truck horn or a preteen and then a badass during the victory screen. Now, he sounds more consistent, but that's it. No more speculation, leak talk, etc. If you want to do that, do it in a social like the Lucas, Ryu, and Roy Socials or make your own PM about speculation and discuss there.

This is a thread about the current characters in the current metagame. Characters not in yet are characters not of the present metagame, but the future metagame and until they're in, they're just speculation and future predictions of a future, metagame. Even if say, aMSa mastered one of them, we cannot talk about them since nobody has them except for aMSa and a few others. It's for your own safety.

54 characters now? That's 1431 matchups if my math's right.

Which is why I advocate for MU charts, discussions, and the KoFXIII tier chart of flawed versus well-rounded characters over a regular old tier list.

 

[NachoOfCheese]

PK freeze does 22%. Has that always been a thing?

 

[Pyr]

Okay guys, how about a little less speculation on newbies. Here is a link that explains every single move of the new fighters that has info directly from the game. Go nuts.

His Side, Down, and Up-B all basically use the motions from SF. With the tips, I think it's really safe to assume that you can input the motions (Fireball, DP, QC back, QC Forward) instead of the normal Up, L/R, and neutral presses.

Looks like all that time spent playing TvC with a GC controller is going to pay off.

Shoryuken

Input the commands from the original series to become invincible until the move is complete. The move needs no recovery time after landing.

Oh. Oh my god. This is the best day ever.

Focus Attack

You can cancel this move by pressing left or right twice quickly, either while charging or right after the punch connects.

Strong Down Attack (Strong)

Hold down the attack button while crouching to use this move. You can cancel it into a special even if the foe is shielding, but only if you hit.

Strong Down Attack (Weak)

Use this attack by crouching and tapping the attack button. If you hit a downed opponent with it, you’ll knock them back to their feet.

Yep. My hype is no longer containable. His normals change and can cancel!

Not going to quote more because I'd just quote his entire section.

 

[Nu~]

Oh. Oh my god. This is the best day ever.

That's freaking gross

 

[ZarroTsu]

Ryu's honestly looking like he might come up S tier. All the variations on his moves give him some insane strategy and mix-ups.

Unless there's zero reason at all to use the non-SF-input versions, then that's just cheesy.

 

[Nu~]

Ryu's honestly looking like he might come up S tier. All the variations on his moves give him some insane strategy and mix-ups.

Unless there's zero reason at all to use the non-SF-input versions, then that's just cheesy.

But how does he land? It seems like he has some of the worst landing options in the game

 

[ZarroTsu]

His focus seems capable of absorbing one attack before breaking; and it's cancelable before completion by double-tapping left/right (idk if this rule changes when used in the air or not).

Time will tell.

 

[FullMoon]

His recovery also seems to be pretty bad and predictable.

 

[Ffamran]

Ahem, I'm not going to repeat myself again: stop talking about characters not in the game for everyone yet. Do I need to call someone who has power over here?

 

[Pyr]

Ahem, I'm not going to repeat myself again: stop talking about characters now in the game for everyone yet. Do I need to call someone who has power over here?

http://smashboards.com/forums/ryu.531/
http://smashboards.com/forums/roy.530/
http://smashboards.com/forums/lucas.525/

To house our respective hype.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Everyone stop posting now, I WILL start handing out warnings. /houston

But really, this thread has lost most of its merit when it passed 200ish pages of "discussion". Not saying people should still keep going, but telling them to not post here is kinda hard to do since they're mostly 2014/2015 people and since there's like 20ish admins/senators/super mods combined, if they really didn't want people talking about this in this ONE SPECIFIC THREAD pretty sure warnings would've been tossed out already.

At least link them to Roy Ryu sub-forums then if you don't want them posting here. Also dunno why it's not part of the rules to post here about the characters when Smashboards already made sub-forums fer em as well lol

http://smashboards.com/forums/roy.530/
http://smashboards.com/forums/ryu.531/

Characters not in yet are characters not of the present metagame, but the future metagame and until they're in, they're just speculation and future predictions of a future, metagame.

They are in tho, from what's floating around prolly tomorrow with Lucas as well. But this is a "character impression" thread, we're posting our impressions and thoughts on the characters based on gameplay people have seen already, but again if you don't want them to talk about it here for some reason when it's just a more monitored glorified social, then link them to the sub-forums to theorycraft Roy killing at 0% with fully charged neutral B in the Roy forums.

 

[NachoOfCheese]

Better stop talking about mewtwo then since not everyone has him

But seriously, let's wait till tomorrow guys. This ain't the thread for all the hype.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Nevermind. accidental post

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I would think it would be a bit different when its less speculation and more "we've watched footage and we have the game tips" by this point. :\

---

So, if in theory somebody was able to use Mewtwo perfectly (maximize his 50/50 situations, land Down B consistently, abuse his teleport with its ledge cancels, etc), how good would Mewtwo be?

 

[Ikes]

Ahem, I'm not going to repeat myself again: stop talking about characters not in the game for everyone yet. Do I need to call someone who has power over here?

we have a lot of knowledge about his moves right here, it's fair to speculate on how this will affect other characters and how he will fare competitively. what's the beef dude?

 

[|RK|]

I would think it would be a bit different when its less speculation and more "we've watched footage and we have the game tips" by this point. :\

---

So, if in theory somebody was able to use Mewtwo perfectly (maximize his 50/50 situations, land Down B consistently, abuse his teleport with its ledge cancels, etc), how good would Mewtwo be?

Seriously.

 

[Ffamran]

we have a lot of knowledge about his moves right here, it's fair to speculate on how this will affect other characters and how he will fare competitively. what's the beef dude?

The beef is that we don't know everything about them. Sure, we know how Ryu's moves work, but how does his mobility, air speed, fall speed, hurtbox, and game plan work with him? Are there some issues like maybe there's a deadzone oversight on one of his moves which would get patched. Knowing his moves is only half of it which is why I'd rather wait until he's completely out and people figured more about him and taken him to different environments, FAF, singles, doubles, etc.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Ganon's DA sent him farther faster and more powerfully (both in % and knockback in Brawl). I'd say it's worse in this game, but nonetheless a tool Ganon's may use (especially weak DA as it can "combo" into jab)

Ganon's DA is like 9001 times more useful in this game even though you can't really use it as a kill move as much anymore without Rage.

True combos into U-air at certain percents, much easier to crossover with in this game on shield meaning Ganon actually has a safe grounded approach in this game, sends people FORWARDS instead of backwards which is extremely important because it keeps Ganon in position for more followups. Ganon's DA does a lot better setting up Ganon to create a momentum train wreck, while in Brawl he just bashes you for 15% and that's mostly it.

DA is one of Ganon's best moves, and even if you don't use it much, your opponent has to always be careful around it given it covers a lot of options and is a great punish.

 

[Man Li Gi]

Ganon's DA is like 9001 times more useful in this game even though you can't really use it as a kill move as much anymore without Rage.

True combos into U-air at certain percents, much easier to crossover with in this game on shield meaning Ganon actually has a safe grounded approach in this game, sends people FORWARDS instead of backwards which is extremely important because it keeps Ganon in position for more followups. Ganon's DA does a lot better setting up Ganon to create a momentum train wreck, while in Brawl he just bashes you for 15% and that's mostly it.

DA is one of Ganon's best moves, and even if you don't use it much, your opponent has to always be careful around it given it covers a lot of options and is a great punish.

Ugh, I expressed that it's better for combos, but not for killing. I for one like a quick kill move, but I see the credence in combos for big lug.

Also for those who didn't see the stream, here is a stripped down version of it:

Damn, I'm feeling a bit fraudulent and hypocritical for my post a couple pages back.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Ugh, I expressed that it's better for combos, but not for killing. I for one like a quick kill move, but I see the credence in combos for big lug.

Also for those who didn't see the stream, here is a stripped down version of it:

It's not even just combos. The way it propels Ganon in this game makes it noticeably easier to crossover with which makes your offensive mixup safer. Ganon also already has a lot of kill moves and the simple fact DA sends people forwards rather than backwards means even outside of situational combos, you get much better positional advantage. You can DA someone by the ledge at low-mid percents and suddenly they're in a 50/50 situation where you might be able to instantly kill them, which you can't do in Brawl at all for instance.

 

[Shaya]

I think mayham is hard to contain right now and I won't be having much time to really enforce it for at least today.
If you guys avoid one liners (i.e. "ZOMG HYPE") I won't come back later to infract/warn. So yeah, try to keep it less-social like.


@Cassio

Oh okay. My opinions are customs off. A lot of characters get good tools that compete with ZSS mid and long range capabilities (Fox laser, Sonic stuff). However, the non-paralyzing laser choice is underused and likely counteracts a lot of this pressure she puts herself under, but alas.
And yeah, sorry for misunderstanding you

1. ZSS ****s on fatties, none of them fall out of up-b, likely ever and this makes disgusting things possible from any vertical confirm. Seeing as dthrow up-b is unavoidable for nearly every fatty and kills at 80%, she invalidates them in practice IMO:
... is interesting, flame thrower is a really good perturbing tool against her, but his fate mostly remains the same.

2. ZSS tends to demolish characters who don't have frame safety enough on shield to avoid being grabbed, uptilted or jabbed reliably:
2a. Character's who can't avoid back throw down-b in practice: (this list is likely larger, fyi)

3. Other characters that don't have reliable answers to zair (and usually can be flip jumped for trying):

4. Characters who [can] get out spaced/walled:

5. Competitive characters against her that die too early so it's manageable:
5a. Competitive characters otherwise (imo) [Sheik dies very early but is one of two top tiers who naturally fall out of up-b (the other being ZSS herself)].

If I've missed a mii, I DON'T CARE. If I've missed someone else, I likely don't care.

some 3-5 characters may have advantages over her; but the zealot in me screams
"BURN IN HELL, INAZUMMAAAA KIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIKUUUU"

 

[Man Li Gi]

It's not even just combos. The way it propels Ganon in this game makes it noticeably easier to crossover with which makes your offensive mixup safer. Ganon also already has a lot of kill moves and the simple fact DA sends people forwards rather than backwards means even outside of situational combos, you get much better positional advantage.

True, it's better that it sends people forward, but the cross up potential is nowhere near as good as you want to make it out to be. Most times, if it lands on shields (like most other DAs) it doesn't have enough pushback to justify it, while Brawl Ganon DA did have slightly more pushback, albeit quite minute.