Character Competitive Impressions

[Scarlet Jile]

Was this really necessary?

Smooth Criminal

No, but then again, neither is signing your name on a forum.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

No, but then again, neither is signing your name on a forum.

I personally like his calling card. Almost like something a king would do.

 

[kj22]

I personally like his calling card. Almost like something a king would do.

tbh whenever I see "Smooth Criminal" I think of Cody from Street Fighter for some reason :V

 

[Macedonian]

I want to talk about Samus a bit. (Or see others talk about her, I suppose.) I get that she's pretty solidly in the lower end of the cast, but what exactly is it about her that's holding her back? Is it bad numbers on her moves (damage, frame data, etc.) or is she just not cohesive or what?

id like to chime in on samus

Samus does have some redeeming qualities, decent combos out of dash and grab, and up air and up b have some serious potential. Bair is one of the strongest in the game and has great range. it also cant be understated how much her very heavy weight helps in keeping her alive. i dont think her kit is really that bad, it just feels like so many parts of her kit just are slightly sub par.

• shes the only character in the cast that cant connect her second jab.
• her down smash is very slow, weak, and punishable.
• Up smash cant hit most of the cast while on the ground, and even if it hits it has a lot of problems with connecting all the hits. (i hope i'm not complaining but it seems like a small range too)
• bombs dont detonate on the enemy
• Nair, not really a bad move, good for edge gaurding, not great at relieving pressure. big nerf compared to the old sex kick IMO
• Fsmash, awesome that it hits frame 9 and has amazing range, not awesome that it has a blind spot where it misses the enemy if they are to close to samus. (other characters have this issue as well on some moves)
• missiles have been nerfed since brawl. no longer allowed 2 suppers. and missiles take a very long time to shoot.
• she really only has three solid and dependable ways to kill, charge shot, Bair, and Fsmash. none of these are the best. Upair and upb also have some kill potential as does edgegaurding with nair/fair.

I am really hoping she gets a few buffs in the upcoming patch because with the problems above she really has a tough time killing on the ground since your only viable smash to kill with grounded is Fsmash, and the only tilt that has any kill potential is Utilt and that can be teched, and it is tough to force the Bair kill with how floaty she is.

if any of these following buffs happen id be ecstatic and i really think samus would be much more viable.

• buff jab so that it combos into itself
• bombs detonate on enemy
• buff missiles lightly in some way, either allow two suppers, reduce cooldown, or my personal preference give some kill power to the supper missile (its pretty dumb a can and lloyd rocket can kill but this cant i think).
• Kill power to Dtilt would be an amazing buff. (dont need this if dsmash is buffed though)
• Buff Dsmash and Upsmash.

 

[HeroMystic]

Lets.

I want to talk about Samus a bit. (Or see others talk about her, I suppose.) I get that she's pretty solidly in the lower end of the cast, but what exactly is it about her that's holding her back? Is it bad numbers on her moves (damage, frame data, etc.) or is she just not cohesive or what?

It's a combination of a messy moveset and her metagame not quite forming together. Samus isn't a quite a spacing character but she isn't quite a combo character either.

If you put her side by side with Link everyone would realize their have similar gameplans but Link's moveset just has better synergy. While Link can effectively wall you with bombs and boomerang and space you out with N-air, Jab, and U-tilt; Samus can't quite do the same as Link due to her underwhelming specials. She relies a lot of stage control and keeping her opponent out of their sweetspot range because at that point she lacks the means to effectively get people off her. N-air doesn't work for that and Up-B has small horizontal range. Her only really option is actually jab1.

A lot of conventional defenses simply doesn't work with her. She has the worst roll in the game, Shield-Grab is terrible and leaves you open for a full second, D-Smash to punish rolls is so bad, and U-Smash to beat Anti-Airs is so useless because they don't properly link together for the full damage.

That said, Samus isn't completely washed out because despite her horrible conventional options, there are ways to make up for it. For instant, her tilts are actually very good. Short Hop Air Dodge is an effective evasive tool and can lead into N-air, U-air, or Z-air (not recommended). U-Tilt is a very effective anti-air and safe edgeguard tool. D-tilt punishes rolls and sets up for juggling, and her dash attack is very, very good to start combos.

Speaking of combos, she has a lot of them.

Samus has a lot of tricks and tech that people are constantly finding and attempting to utilize, so eventually I think all of that will get her going once the Samus mains master them. Then again, the same was said about Link in Brawl but he couldn't get past his core flaws, so who knows.

She is bringing in results too, which is not what many bottom tiers can say.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Lets.

I want to talk about Samus a bit. (Or see others talk about her, I suppose.) I get that she's pretty solidly in the lower end of the cast, but what exactly is it about her that's holding her back? Is it bad numbers on her moves (damage, frame data, etc.) or is she just not cohesive or what?

To clairify shes also terrible begginer character. I hated my first month with the chick. She will feel pretty terrible. Im not quite sure what holds her back. (i rather like her jabs aplications) But to speak on her weaknesses, her biggest problem she has in the non custom meta game is space claiming. As in any particular spot she may have an advantage in. she has very limited tools to keep that postioning. (this is not the same as advantage state) So in a nut shell the opponent does not have to respect your space very much.
The way i get around this is just abandon ship. yeah it sucks but leaving that area is for the most part the best plan shes got. So if your gunna make that decision make if sooner than later. so you can find another advantagous postioning. She is not a camper more of a run away.

Tether grabs on the other had are fundementaly flawed but at least she can get some good reward off of landing one.
For the most part her frame data, damage, and combos is pretty solid. her floaty nature is helpfull. along with tether ledge grab.

In the customs meta people have yet to experience the wave "RESPECT ME" mega bomb presents but I really don't feel like speaking about it all that much for that im salty my evo set ain't in. (but thats more my fault)

But anywho in customs meta i really think shes higher mid.
customless, low mid but thats imo.

 

[HeroMystic]

To clairify shes also terrible begginer character.

I'm going to make a massive emphasis on this. Again as I've stated before, a lot of conventional defense just doesn't work with her. You have to get used to using SHAD and as RDW says, running away. You really have to know when to pick and choose your battles.

 

[Nobie]

I do find it kind of ironic that, while Samus is not easy to use as a beginner, the conditions of For Glory (lag, input delay) make her much more attractive to newbies. With enough of a delay, you might even be fooled into thinking her rolls are fantastic!

I think what defines Samus currently is that very little of what she has is guaranteed, especially in terms of defense, and that you're basically constantly taking risks with her in order to get rewards. Case in point is the infamous jab 1 not linking into jab 2. It's intentional, but why is that the case? I think it's to force you to use it as a mind game. Sometimes you'll throw out jab 2, sometimes you won't. Unlike, say, Captain Falcon, who can choose if he wants to do that or not, Samus must approach her jab as something with drawbacks that must be minimized through smart play.

Tether grab is a funny move, and for me I find its main use to be unstaling Charge Shot through repeated pummels.

 

[meleebrawler]

I'm going to make a massive emphasis on this. Again as I've stated before, a lot of conventional defense just doesn't work with her. You have to get used to using SHAD and as RDW says, running away. You really have to know when to pick and choose your battles.

And bomb mixups. Lots and lots of aerial bomb shifting.

SHAD is important because Samus can turn it into a SHADZair.

Samus's mindgaming play is epitomized by Charge Shot, a projectile so strong that even half-charged
shots do good damage. It's the fact that she doesn't strictly need to fully charge it to get good results
that can let her land it in situations where it frankly shouldn't have.

 

[Project Quarantine]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CCK6cVKW8AEyTXo.png:large

^ Dabuz made a tier list. Thoughts?

I think Bowser Jr. and peach are too low, but otherwise it's really good imo

 

[Smog Frog]

jigglypuff's way too low. but of course, smash has a history of "bad until proven good". but absolute bottom tier? a character with setups into a move that kills at 50% cant be that low.

 

[Quickhero]

Why is Toon Link so high and why is Falco so low? I don't understand what makes Toon Link considerably better than the rest of the cast since I've seldom seen Toon Link in Smash 4 tournament play ever. I have no clue what makes Falco lower than Lucina, (she's not necessarily completely bad, but Falco is definitely better than a character that currently has no niche) he's lacking but he's not remotely worthy of being considered bad. I'm referring to the customs on tier list particularly but it applies to both.

 

[Antonykun]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CCK6cVKW8AEyTXo.png:large

^ Dabuz made a tier list. Thoughts?

I think Bowser Jr. and peach are too low, but otherwise it's really good imo

Hurray for Swordfighter tier >.>. Actually mini Swordfighter rant:
I despise f-tilt like why couldn't they give him a not over glorified jab 1? Outside of pivots there are no scenarios I can think of using that move? If only it can be like Marcina's whith that delish range heck even if its something like link f-tilt which is slow but has nice range and power

 

[Nobie]

I'm hoping that the fact that Dabuz makes a distinction between "competitive" and "viable" causes another argument over semantics (not really).

I'm just impressed that according to this tier list there are 23-27 "good" characters in the game (customs off vs. customs on). That's pretty much the size of the entire Melee roster. That's kind of crazy, and a tip of the hat to the balance team this time around.

We'll see how much Wednesday changes everything.

 

[Blobface]

Actually this list looks decent, at least as good as we can reasonably get considering how early we are into the metagame and how subjective this kind of thing gets.
Also, just to conduct a little mini-poll because it seems custom Ganon is always underestimated: What % does Dark Fists kill at? 0% rage and 150% rage.

@ Antonykun I was wondering what was so funny about your sig.

Then I noticed that it's a gif and that the bowling ball has blood on it.

 

[Xuan Wu]

Greninja and Lucario's placements did surprise me. Also, despite the initial hype, this is the second time I have seen Ike placed worse in a customs list.

So... In his opinion, Toon Link and Marth are still superior to Link and Ike, respectively? ^-^

EDIT: Furthermore, it saddens me that he doesn't even consider any of the FE characters viable in this game, regardless of the metagame environment.

 

[Ffamran]

Why is Toon Link so high and why is Falco so low? I don't understand what makes Toon Link considerably better than the rest of the cast since I've seldom seen Toon Link in Smash 4 tournament play ever. I have no clue what makes Falco lower than Lucina, he's lacking but he's not remotely worthy of being considered bad. I'm referring to the customs on tier list particularly but it applies to both.

For Toon Link, I'm only aware of Zan while Trevonte apparently decided to pick up Toon Link or wanted to mess around and show what Toon Link can do with customs in the Come on and Ban 14 from yesterday. The matches are uploaded on showdowngg if you want to reference them. This one is Trevonte's Toon Link vs. X's Diddy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u46leDBTpvY.

Toon Link might be rated high because of his raw speed - mobility bias? -, but even then, you have characters like Villager?, Mega Man?, and even Luigi who aren't that mobile without using something like Luigi Cyclone, but are considered phenomenal if not good characters. With Link, even though he's slowish in movement, his attacks aren't that slow and he's powerful to boot along with having good disjoints like with his Jab 3 or his Dair which has a wacky (and annoying) horizontal disjoint. Toon Link while being weaker, still has good disjoints - one of the matches with Trevonte had his Side Smash killing DSS's Ness while Ness was not even near the Master Sword, but above it - along with being fairly fast with his moves. Movement-wise, we're talking about a kid whose stubby legs allows him to cover ground fast and his foxtrot is fun to mess around with - a fakeout or foxtrot to get away and Ftilt back. Link won't be able to cover ground like Toon Link with foxtrots, but he can feint into or catch a roll with a Dash Attack which is devastating while Ftilt has good range and power. Both can wall out people with projectiles, but Toon Link is like an annoying mosquito while Link is more like a a Humvee with a machine gun turret. Toon Link is harder to catch and can be squished easily since he's not exactly durable while Link is easier to catch, but takes hits better.

Also, one thing that I haven't seen yet are Toon Links using Jab to other attacks like Link - maybe Zan has, but I haven't seen a lot of his matches. Run off Fairs are a bit more "reliable" since his Ftilt is a single hit while Link's is a two-hit move.

 

[Antonykun]

I just played as DeDeDe in a long time and I got to say is wow I'm bad...After playing Swordfighter I thought I was ready for unviable characters... mad props to @ Smooth Criminal for sticking with him and now I want to play the penguin more.
I'm afraid of playing Zelda now

Actually this list looks decent, at least as good as we can reasonably get considering how early we are into the metagame and how subjective this kind of thing gets.
Also, just to conduct a little mini-poll because it seems custom Ganon is always underestimated: What % does Dark Fists kill at? 0% rage and 150% rage.

@ Antonykun I was wondering what was so funny about your sig.

Then I noticed that it's a gif and that the bowling ball has blood on it.

It took me like a minute to notice that the picture was a gif It was going to be my sig regardless because I love villager.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CCK6cVKW8AEyTXo.png:large

^ Dabuz made a tier list. Thoughts?

I think Bowser Jr. and peach are too low, but otherwise it's really good imo

Yeah ima just say im not a fan of the list.

 

[Nobie]

I just played as DeDeDe in a long time and I got to say is wow I'm bad...After playing Swordfighter I thought I was ready for unviable characters... mad props to @ Smooth Criminal for sticking with him and now I want to play the penguin more.
I'm afraid of playing Zelda now

It took me like a minute to notice that the picture was a gif It was going to be my sig regardless because I love villager.

Dedede is strong against sword characters in general.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Give @Cook his dues---he placed 5th in a regional against solid players like M2K and Dabuz, the highest so far offline. Same with @slavoslav and others. Right now, aside from the odd local here and there, I'm just a mouthpiece.

You'll be seeing me at EVO and other events soon enough, though.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Shaya]

Toon Link's rated highly on the basis of Brawl-bias I would posit. Not really explicitly changed in anyway, heck things like boomerang and bombs were [probably] buffed. Just something doesn't work well with the character. I think a game based around more combos and kill set ups hurts Toon Link because he mostly lacks any powerful tools for that.

But probably the main factor is that Toon Link don't have invincible bomb drops / air dodges into the ground. After Wario I don't think there's a character in the Brawl meta that used air dodges more than Toon Link to function. And not being able to drop your bomb while air dodging without zairing due to the game's stupid buffering priority system completely ****s over one of his most dominant disadvantaged state tools from Brawl and in general allowed him approaching options to boot too.

He's kinda meant to be the "aerial Link", but he has mostly worse aerials than Link and has had his options from it cut in half. Over the long term people will come to realise this a bit and either adapt to push the character beyond that, or he's actually a low tier people aren't ready to agree on yet.

He could air dodge, drop a bomb and then reactively zair out of said air dodge all while being near lagless options
That's three "steps" players had to deal with when combating Toon Link in Brawl, there really wasn't a punish to any of the first two choices and you'd have to be on point (power shield) the third choice to actually capitalize on Tink. Tis no longer the case though.

Meanwhile, Diddy Kong can do the same thing bar zairing afterwards, but who needs a slow move like zair at any point in the air dodge (that now gives landing lag) when you could FORWARD AIR OR UP AIR and regrab the banana at the same time for the never ending frame trap with huge capitalization and minimal punish opportunities for it?

 

[kj22]

Toon Link's rated highly on the basis of Brawl-bias I would posit. Not really noticeably changed in anyway, heck things like boomerang and bombs were [probably] buffed. Just something doesn't work well with the character. I think a game based around more combos and kill set ups hurts Toon Link because while mostly lacks having powerful tools for any of that.

But probably the main factor is that Toon Link don't have invincible bomb drops / air dodges into the ground. After Wario I don't think there's a character in the Brawl meta that used air dodges more than Toon Link to function. And not being able to drop your bomb while air dodging without zairing due to the game's stupid buffering priority system completely ****s over one of his most dominant disadvantaged state tools from Brawl and in general allowed him approaching options to boot too.

He's kinda meant to be the "aerial Link", but he has mostly worse aerials than Link and has had his options from it cut in half. Over the long term people will come to realise this a bit and either adapt to push the character beyond that, or he's actually a low tier people aren't ready to agree on yet.

So that's why I always zair....I miss brawl toon links freedom

 

[Radical Larry]

Honestly, Dabuz' tier list seems to be FAR from the truth by any standard. I just can't agree with that.
IMO, Dark Pit would get better with customs.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Honestly, Dabuz' tier list seems to be FAR from the truth by any standard. I just can't agree with that.

not really its just the same typical garbage really. top-mid everones okay with mid-low *grab ur pitch fork*
i see about the same amount of truth in it as i see in most tier lists.

 

[Radical Larry]

not really its just the same typical garbage really. top-mid everones okay with mid-low *grab ur pitch fork*
i see about the same amount of truth in it as i see in most tier lists.

Eh, I take most tier lists (even my own, ironically) with a grain of salt.

 

[Nu~]

Just another man's opinion on the meta

*Moves along*

 

[webbedspace]

I've noticed a heck of a lot of ROBs lately, on multiple streamed weeklies, customs or not - far more than any of the other so-called "A-tier" characters. Is it just that the character's equally versatile in customs and non-customs, and that its gameplan is essentially unchanged, making it a good "all-meta" pick during these turbulent pre-EVO days? Is it just the allure of the "Robo-Hoo-Ha" (the "Beep-Boop")?

 

[FullMoon]

People are still really underestimating Greninja I'd say. There's no way Duck Hunt Dog is a better character than him.

But eh, at this point I don't care much.

 

[ILOVESMASH]

People are underestimating a large number of characters. A majority of the characters in this game are pretty good and viable (barring a few characters like Lucina, D3, Mii swordfighter, and maybe Falco) but several characters simply don't get the recognition they deserve due to the lack of notable tournament results (at least nowhere near as notable as Top characters like Diddy Kong and Sheik), causing a majority of these tier list to be "skewed" in the eyes of many players because their character is ranked low despite being extremely good. I personally don't think any of these tier list are too outlandish and ridiculous because they are all based on either what people have seen from YT videos, or heard about from certain players and they could possibly shove characters aside as gimmicks because they have either seen the character lose or heard people call the character bad.

 

[Deathcarter]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CCK6cVKW8AEyTXo.png:large

^ Dabuz made a tier list. Thoughts?

I think Bowser Jr. and peach are too low, but otherwise it's really good imo

OK, what's with Fox, Falcon, Yoshi, Ness, and Mario going from top of A to mid/low-mid A? Sure customs are game changers, but the nature of customs makes it so that its almost impossible that customs shift the meta game enough that those 5 already solid characters in vanilla honestly lose viability relative to everyone else in A tier.

 

[TheZyzyva]

I think Dabuz has one of the better tier lists by far. Anyone can find fault in any list but with his i can imagine the thought behind each placement.
As for those that "drop" with customs, thats because they dont gain anything like a lot of others do. The only one i see dropping that shouldnt is Mario, who should rise with the Fludd options.

 

[Plain Yogurt]

OK, what's with Fox, Falcon, Yoshi, Ness, and Mario going from top of A to mid/low-mid A? Sure customs are game changers, but the nature of customs makes it so that its almost impossible that customs shift the meta game enough that those 5 already solid characters in vanilla honestly lose viability relative to everyone else in A tier.

Ness gets treated to Super Windbox Bros for Wii U when customs are on, which in theory is no fun for his recovery. On top of that, he along with Falcon and Yoshi don't really get any mind-blowing customs themselves. Just a couple of kinda helpful matchup-specific side-grades.

You got me on Mario and Fox though. From what I can tell they only get better with customs on.

 

[Ulevo]

The main things wrong with Dabuz's list from a results perspective that I see is Donkey Kong and Meta Knight. Both should at least be 'viable' tier. Both have had good showings in tournament and have prominent players putting on good performances.

Also, why is it every time Greninja comes up it's about how Greninja is obviously much better than he actually is.

 

[Shaya]

Vegeta, what does the scouter say about Duck Hunt's power level?

IT'S OVER NINE THOUSAND

WHAT NINE THOUSAND? THERE'S NO WAY THAT CAN BE RIGHT. But eh, at this point I don't care much

Greninja's a good character, and to be only rated like 3-4 spots and one tier lower than your "minimum expectations" is just a petty critique. Duck Hunt has very good representation all over the shop, he may not be better than Greninja but he sure is doing noticeably more than Greninja. To be top of a tier that just straddles the lines between a really solid list of characters... just ughhh, why do the "being slept on" mains have to have this nagging perspective on everything? What self-gratification are you after where another person obviously thinks the same as you do about a character you toil and are likely being biased over? The meta is always developing and it's good to believe they can be pushed further ahead than what people think, that's the strive you're looking for; the empowerment.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

View attachment 46926 Vegeta, what does the scouter say about Duck Hunt's power level?
View attachment 46927 IT'S OVER NINE THOUSAND
View attachment 46928 WHAT NINE THOUSAND? THERE'S NO WAY THAT CAN BE RIGHT. But eh, at this point I don't care much

Greninja's a good character, and to be only rated like 3-4 spots and one tier lower than your "minimum expectations" is just a petty critique. Duck Hunt has very good representation all over the shop, he may not be better than Greninja but he sure is doing noticeably more than Greninja. To be top of a tier that just straddles the lines between a really solid list of characters... just ughhh, why do the "being slept on" mains have to have this nagging perspective on everything? What self-gratification are you after where another person obviously thinks the same as you do about a character you toil and are likely being biased over? The meta is always developing and it's good to believe they can be pushed further ahead than what people think, that's the strive you're looking for; the empowerment.

Carefull shaya people don't like it when sensible logic gets thrown around.

But for the most part bais will always exist its human, nobody, *cough* again nobody is exempt from this.
I personally think its all good when players want to promote a character they enjoy. But I personally find it kinda tiring when people don't support as to why said character is "better" or "slept on" At least have an argument right?

*im also very well aware that I myself am one of those people though, I admitedly try to not bring samus up in coversation simply cuz i don't want to come off as that "nagging son of a -" (unless i of course found some neat tech out from my many hours of labbing) But yeah being a low tier main can just be rough mentaly expecially if ya have dissagreements about the said placement already. At least for me it's not about saticfaction, its more along the lines of just wanting people to see what you see in the characters potential. i honestly would not use samus if i did not see it, concidering i don't have very much attachment to the character.*

But yeah if you are gunna go around pandering your character ya gotta accept the facts at the present time and work your case around it. (or just bloody prove it and wreak **** at a regional or somthing.) Buuuuut thats just me, i don't speak for everyone. hell i don't even have samus as my primary. (despite me probably being a whole lot better with her.)

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CCK6cVKW8AEyTXo.png:large

^ Dabuz made a tier list. Thoughts?

I think Bowser Jr. and peach are too low, but otherwise it's really good imo

I'm only going to comment on customs, because at this point I just like to pretend that the no-customs metagame is a bad dream and that eventually we're all going to wake up.

• Fox gets more from customs than I think Dabuz gives him credit for. Not much more, he's pretty damn close, but a little bit more.
  
• I'm curious why he thinks Luigi gets better with customs. At least the latter gets very, very little from customs.
  
• I'd put Pika right next to Rosalina - Heavy Skull Bash is still one of the dumbest hard reads in the game to land.
  
• Brawler is definitely not in the right category. Seriously, that char is stupid good.
  
• I feel like he's really sleeping on Doc, Link, and Falco. Falco really isn't that bad, and Link is a huge pain in the ass.

That said, this is probably the best tier list I've ever seen, and all of those complaints are pretty marginal.

tbh whenever I see "Smooth Criminal" I think of Cody from Street Fighter for some reason :V

Aw c'mon, this got a warning? This was hilarious.

 

[Hippieslayer]

Whenever there's a tournament and it turns out to not have customs in it I go from "yay gonna watch" to "**** this **** who gives a **** about boring ass non-customs meta that wont even ****ing matter in the end"

I think Dabuz's placement of WFT is interesting, he's probably basing that on John Numbers. I'm really not sure about WFT but looking at what little footage there is of John Numbers it doesn't seem too far off.

I thought it was a good tier list, bar the fact that Bowser Jr is too low. He doesn't have much representation but that one japanese guy and Tweek make him seem pretty decent. Sure he ain't da bess but he's also like pretty darn heavy and like hits hard and that like is pretty good.

Anyway best list I seen. Good categories. I don't like the fact that Dabuz has placed the non customs list to the left since that makes it appear to be default and custom the deviation. Still his non custom list is riddled with inaccuracies and just sucks in general but who can fault Dabuz for not putting as much effort into that ****ing crap?

 

[Sinister Slush]

I'm only going to comment on customs, because at this point I just like to pretend that the no-customs metagame is a bad dream and that eventually we're all going to wake up.

Whenever there's a tournament and it turns out to not have customs in it I go from "yay gonna watch" to "**** this **** who gives a **** about boring *** non-customs meta that wont even ****ing matter in the end"
I don't like the fact that Dabuz has placed the non customs list to the left since that makes it appear to be default and custom the deviation. Still his non custom list is riddled with inaccuracies and just sucks in general but who can fault Dabuz for not putting as much effort into that ****ing crap?

Is this the thought process of people that're Pro custom?
I honestly thought these two were the same person since they're liking each others posts too.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Is this the thought process of people that're Pro custom?

Nah, just me. And Hippieslayer. Like, I'll still play the customs-off meta. I play mostly ZSS, and ZSS gets about as much from customs as Shiek gets - one useless move becomes useless in marginally better ways. But I think there's very little merit to upholding a non-customs meta. You want to play without customs? Pick 1111. Don't seriously nerf half the cast, and don't ban people's mains. Because customs make for a better tournament environment. Characters with more better options, more viable cast members, and more interesting matchups.

Whenever there's a tournament and it turns out to not have customs in it I go from "yay gonna watch" to "**** this **** who gives a **** about boring *** non-customs meta that wont even ****ing matter in the end"

This is my sig now.