Character Competitive Impressions

[BriefCasey795]

So I've been hearing about stuff of Diddy potentially being banned from Smash 4 tournaments since people claim he's broken. Is this true that he might be the new Brawl Meta Knight, or does it even look like he could be banned? I'm pretty neutral on it, but I've been hearing about this for quite a while.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

You got me there about shooting projectiles with lemons.
There's also the piercing Leaf Shield for particulary sloppy projectile use...

I don't think there's a rule against projectile camping in general.
What gets banned are techniques that make a character nigh impossible
to hit and does nothing to help win a match other than running out the clock.
Projectile camping at least causes damage to your opponent.

People tried to impose edge-grab limits in Brawl to due the use of planking (especially by-who else?-Meta Knight).

nobody uses leaf shield as a projectlie trust me.

@ BriefCasey795
lol no hes no where near mk level and yeah hes really strong but honestly not broken.

but there was a time when a certain professional player *cough* ZeRo *cough* was advocating his ban and made a @retty bid scene but over all nobody is being banned. hell ZeRo just teir whored out and is maining diddy now lol.

 

[KevJames]

So I've been hearing about stuff of Diddy potentially being banned from Smash 4 tournaments since people claim he's broken. Is this true that he might be the new Brawl Meta Knight, or does it even look like he could be banned? I'm pretty neutral on it, but I've been hearing about this for quite a while.

Not broken at all. He's currently the best character in terms of competitive play, but not by a large margin. Recent tournament results have shown that Diddy can be beaten if playing the matchup properly. Even more indication that this game will revolve around match-ups.

 

[HeroMystic]

So I've been hearing about stuff of Diddy potentially being banned from Smash 4 tournaments since people claim he's broken. Is this true that he might be the new Brawl Meta Knight, or does it even look like he could be banned? I'm pretty neutral on it, but I've been hearing about this for quite a while.

It's already been shown multiple times that Diddy can be beaten by other characters. He's not getting banned.

Like Rosalina previously, people are just hyping up a character that gets developed slightly faster than the rest.

 

[HeavyLobster]

No one's getting banned any time soon. It took 3 years before the MK ban happened, so even if a character in this game was legitimately banworthy(nobody in this game looks remotely close to qualifying so far) it'd probably be fixed via balance patch well before the community came to any consensus on the matter.

 

[Locke 06]

nobody uses leaf shield as a projectlie trust me.

I do... The common response to activating leaf shield is to try and camp mega man out to avoid the grab. Especially now that the ending lag on throwing it is shortened, it actually holds usability.

However, everyone including people on the mega man boards, are in a coma about Skull Barrier.

Mega Man has a reflector. Down B > projectiles. Mega man for SSS tier.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

I do... The common response to activating leaf shield is to try and camp mega man out to avoid the grab. Especially now that the ending lag on throwing it is shortened, it actually holds usability.

However, everyone including people on the mega man boards, are in a coma about Skull Barrier.

Mega Man has a reflector. Down B > projectiles. Mega man for SSS tier.

i was not aware of that lol. i just never thought to use leaf shield primaririly as a projectile

 

[KenMeister]

Honestly, I'm okay with the run speed Doc has (though I wouldn't mind being it faster either), but it's like SolidSense was saying earlier, there are characters who perform marginally better than him getting in than Doc does, and the characters he mentioned are both FASTER than Doc, which is kind of lopsided as is honestly. I feel like if he's going to keep the trait of being a slower, more powerful Mario, he can keep his mobility, but his moves reeeeally need more % damage per hit outside of bair (yeah, both Doc and Mario have this same problem unfortunately), and pills should do more hitstun, just enough to where if a character is super close to Doc, he can punish them with a pill and come in for the punish. And honestly, I don't feel like he has too much of an issue with projectiles, he has okay enough pressure game and good shield dashing game to get through it, but he has the most trouble with faster disjointed characters (Marth and Lucina), or worse, characters with good disjoints AND projectles (referring to the Links). He can probably punish Shulk and D3 well enough if he can bait the endlag of their moves, since he does an alright job keeping characters in the air.

 

[TTTTTsd]

*Doc snippet*.

Yeah I feel like if they juiced up all of his A moves to like, Melee damage or higher if they're low he'd be a lot better. 10% off of Uair would be amazing, for instance. I would definitely take that 18% downsmash (honestly it could probably be 13-14% instead LOL)

I don't think it would magically make him better than all of the chars who do what he does but better but I REALLY think it would help him a lot.

 

[B0NK]

No one's getting banned any time soon. It took 3 years before the MK ban happened, so even if a character in this game was legitimately banworthy(nobody in this game looks remotely close to qualifying so far) it'd probably be fixed via balance patch well before the community came to any consensus on the matter.

By "happened" you mean "never happened" right?

It was all a dream~

People continue to sleep on Robin.

Don't worry I gotchu! -_^b I believe in Robin.


*looks at doc talk*

I wish doc could move, if he could move he'd be as good as... Mario! But nah, why would you make a clone as good as his counterpart.

 

[HeavyLobster]

By "happened" you mean "never happened" right?

It happened, then it didn't happen, then it sometimes happened, then it didn't really happen.

 

[Ffamran]

It happened, then it didn't happen, then it sometimes happened, then it didn't really happen.

What really happened is that it happened.

So, how's Peach vs. Zelda? War of the princesses!

 

[KenMeister]

What really happened is that it happened.

So, how's Peach vs. Zelda? War of the princesses!

Turnips>>>>>Magic.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Regarding Dr. Mario, am I the only one who's mildly annoyed at how his capsules bounce weirdly high? They can arc completely over some characters if they're spaced right/wrong.

Also, according to ingame tips they count as physical projectiles now, but I think they used to be energy based in Melee? Can't quite remember because lol Ness lol G&W.

 

[Ffamran]

Turnips>>>>>Magic.

Anything else? Then what about Lucina vs. Peach vs. Zelda?

 

[TTTTTsd]

Regarding Dr. Mario, am I the only one who's mildly annoyed at how his capsules bounce weirdly high? They can arc completely over some characters if they're spaced right/wrong.

Also, according to ingame tips they count as physical projectiles now, but I think they used to be energy based in Melee? Can't quite remember because lol Ness lol G&W.

Ness can't absorb them nor can G&W, they're physical now as opposed to energy like in Melee.

If Ness could absorb Doc's pills I'd literally cry and that MU would probably be over for me lol.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Ness can't absorb them nor can G&W, they're physical now as opposed to energy like in Melee.

If Ness could absorb Doc's pills I'd literally cry and that MU would probably be over for me lol.

You misunderstand. I know for a fact they're physical in 4 because ingame tips. (Thank you based Namdai/NOA for those.) I was asking if they were physical or energy in Melee.

Although you answered the question anyway so I'm really just splitting hairs.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Like Rosalina previously, people are just hyping up a character that gets developed slightly faster than the rest.

Just wanna say there's a huge difference in "development" from Rosalina actually having to play her well not counting luma and dumb fast disjoints to Dthrow into every aerial, the character.

Though still of course agree Diddy doesn't need a ban.

 

[Gunla]

Regarding Pills:
Most often, I tend to use pills right after a short hop; usually moving my position slightly to aim helps a lot as well, to try and prevent them from going right over some characters. I tend to not use pills much on the ground unless I'm near the edge. With small guys, it can't be helped, however.

And the tips in this game really do guve us some nice and helpful details often, actually.

 

[S_B]

I can't decide how to feel about LM...

He's basically a character that's 100% fundamentals. He has little in the way of "technical moves", and he must be played like a boxer: stick and move, always stick and move.

I get the feeling that, if someone REALLY put their heart into him, they could be an utter MONSTER with LM, but it seems like we've not seen that yet.

Yes, I realize how royally ****ed he is once he's in the air or off the stage, but Mac has nearly all of the tools to prevent that from happening, especially in the hands of a competent player.

Do people just not take him to tournaments because he's too much of an all or nothing character or what?

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Regarding Pills:
Most often, I tend to use pills right after a short hop; usually moving my position slightly to aim helps a lot as well, to try and prevent them from going right over some characters. I tend to not use pills much on the ground unless I'm near the edge. With small guys, it can't be helped, however.

And the tips in this game really do guve us some nice and helpful details often, actually.

They really do. Samus mains have bemoaned her jab combo since it doesn't, but there's a tip for that too. It suggests using only jab 1 and then running away.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

They really do. Samus mains have bemoaned her jab combo since it doesn't, but there's a tip for that too. It suggests using only jab 1 and then running away.

and it works very well for that. i even catch people off gaurd with a jab charge shot.

 

[|RK|]

I'm curious as to what people think are Lucario's bad matchups. I would think that a Lucario player's worst nightmare would be anyone who can effectively take him out at low percents, especially by straight-up KOing him due to his strong recovery, before his aura has a chance to really kick in and make a difference.

Little Mac: He seems to fit this description best, due to his strong neutral game and his killing power on even his tilts. It might even be that his lack of need or desire to pursue off-stage makes Lucario's recovery something of a non-issue for either character. Last but not least, there's KO punch, which can not only net early KOs but ironically can punish Lucario for hurting Little Mac too much. How good is Lucario's edgeguarding? Is it reliable enough to wipe out Little Mac consistently?

Ganondorf: While all of the heavies hit super hard, Ganondorf is all about having most of his attacks carry extreme knockback. His overall slowness is an issue, but just the fact that he has so many moves capable of taking out Lucario at sub-100% makes me feel like he has the edge in this matchup.

I'm not too good against some Ganondorf's, actually. Playing Lucario and Ganondorf requires some hard reads, so it's a really strategic back-and-forth in that way. At high aura, their power is comparable, but Ganon doesn't let Lucario get to super-high aura often. That's just my experience.

 

[|RK|]

As a Lucario secondary, I don't think he is as great as others say he is, but he still is a good character. The main problem he has is his decent at best neutral game, causing him to take on percent quickly and be in a disadvantageous position. Now one might just say Aura to KO them now, but it isn't that simple. Lucario's kill options besides gimps and quite a few moves when he is at absurdly high percents and his opponent is also not lacking in that department are limited to punishable moves with noticeable startup like his Smashes, the range limited grab of Force Palm, Bair, and a fully charged Aura Sphere. Sure he can kill early, but its hard to get in with a character as slow as Lucario. He does have great damage at higher percents and if he can get air dodge punishes or reads he can KO, but the problem is getting those fantastic plays.

People severely misunderstand what playing Lucario is like. I swear they think that it's easy.

EDIT: Ah, apologies for the double post.

 

[Shaya]

Sheik and closely followed by Ness and Sonic are good enough/a tier of their own. It's unfortunate that you kinda need to play one of these characters to have a fair chance against Diddy/Sheik. Don't need to be banning Diddy, he's the easiest top tier... but Sheik is still something most characters aren't designed to deal with (basically you MUST power shield her fair to not get completely destroyed by it's frame safety/advantages).

Fox, ZSS, Greninja, Lucario, Pika, Yoshi, and Rosalina are competent to an extent, but really still fall short (mostly) against diddy and sheik, disgustingly.
Villager and Mario are interesting anti-meta characters.

So yeah, no need to ban him yet. He's around the same 'overbearing' state as MK was in the first year of Brawl (i.e. before 'time out'/'planking' was even conceived) which coincided with a good portion still thinking Snake was better (or at least won the match up). NEED to at least see the tournament results before we start getting too worried... Just because we get to see more videos and more results doesn't change this really early stage of the meta.

It's such a shame that the oversight of removing vertical vectoring was derping up Diddy's game significantly (although appreciate down throw uair/bair with Marth).

 

[Wise Multishine]

I have some trouble killing stuff with Pikachu, it seems like his forward smash is his only move capable of killing at reasonable percentages and unless the CPUs do something stupid like putting themselves in a vulnerable state high up above me, I have a hard time connecting with it.

I see a lot of people very excited about Pikachu, so am I just missing something?

His Up Smash is still no-joke. The Up-smash to Thunder combo is quite a "shock."

I'm pretty sure that everyone in the game is rather balanced out very well.
(What's the need to prove that one character's abilities is better than the rest, there could be possible updates on the game that changes it anyways.)

I agree with this. Every character seems to be viable this time around. The only exceptions come when certain match-ups happen. Which is inevitable in a game like this. I wonder where Mewtwo is going to place on the tier list. Hopefully he isn't OP in some way, otherwise he may get nerfed to hell.



Edit: Ooooo...Didn't realize I was replying to ancient posts. Time to leave this thread and never come back.

 

[Noa.]

I've heard various people mention that this game may require people to have more than one main. That having a secondary would be useful for counterpicking matchups. But I feel like I haven't seen or encountered that many hard matchups thus far in this game. Obviously some characters lose to others but really bad matchups don't seem too common yet, probably due to the early state of the metagame.

And when I'm talking about bad matchups I'm referring to Icies/Falco, Oli/Pika, and Peach/MK in brawl levels of bad.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Sheik and closely followed by Ness and Sonic are good enough/a tier of their own. It's unfortunate that you kinda need to play one of these characters to have a fair chance against Diddy/Sheik.

[...]

Fox, ZSS, Greninja, Lucario, Pika, Yoshi, and Rosalina are competent to an extent, but really still fall short (mostly) against diddy and sheik, disgustingly.

Fox, Pikachu and Lucario fall mostly short against Sheik and Diddy? Neither as characters nor in the direct matchups is that the case. ZSS and Rosie also do fine against at least one of them [Diddy] if not against both. Greninja is kind of in the air for me because I haven't seen the character at all anymore after the patch. Oddly enough, Yoshi might be the only one who seriously struggles against both characters but since he ***** everybody else it's probably not a big deal.

Anyway, the point I'm making is that you're pretty off here tbqh. Especially Sheik is nowhere near as good anymore as a lot of people seem to think. She has a number of very different matchups post-patch. I promise you that Sheik will not win any moderately stacked regional tourneys until a new patch comes that nerfs Diddy, Sonic, Yoshi, Fox and Pikachu. And keep in mind that the invitational tournament that Mr r won with Sheik was the pre-patch version ... some people got that mixed up.

Diddy has to be considered the best character at this point. However, neither does that mean that a patch is required to have another character potentially take that spot [though I'll be the first to agree that his uair needs to be fixed - no more than that though] nor is it sensible to put him in a tier of his own right now. Did you know that the Fox players Megafox and Nakat have positive records against their local high and top level Diddy players? The majority of people who complain about Diddy are most certainly unaware of such facts.

 

[Luco]

@ Noa. and I have been testing Ness Bthrow kill percents on every character from 3 areas of FD. I won't go too far into the results but in regards to Lucario, fresh Bthrow at 0% (so no rage) will kill him at 96% or a little higher (with good DI) at the closest side to the blastzone, 120% or a little higher with good DI at centre stage and about 151% from the far side. Rage on our side and DI on Lucario's side obviously affects these percentages, but as a general rule that's where it'll come to. I bring it up because we believe it's a MU where we likely win. Lucario mains can feel free to comment on it but yeah just thought i'd put it out there while I have the data

EDIT: Though if Luca can survive for long enough then we can kiss our rage-injected Bthrows goodbye.

 

[Tagxy]

I've quietly stopped talking about pikachu because Im secretly scared of how good he may potentially be and afraid of a diddy rush. Verdict as usual is still out, but everything I expect should work almost always does, and I find myself unintentionally limiting myself only to be occasionally surprised that certain things work I wouldnt think could. Most players do a poor job handling this character for one reason or another, the biggest exception of course being ESAM.

Sheik and closely followed by Ness and Sonic are good enough/a tier of their own. It's unfortunate that you kinda need to play one of these characters to have a fair chance against Diddy/Sheik. Don't need to be banning Diddy, he's the easiest top tier... but Sheik is still something most characters aren't designed to deal with (basically you MUST power shield her fair to not get completely destroyed by it's frame safety/advantages).

Fox, ZSS, Greninja, Lucario, Pika, Yoshi, and Rosalina are competent to an extent, but really still fall short (mostly) against diddy and sheik, disgustingly.
Villager and Mario are interesting anti-meta characters.

So yeah, no need to ban him yet. He's around the same 'overbearing' state as MK was in the first year of Brawl (i.e. before 'time out'/'planking' was even conceived) which coincided with a good portion still thinking Snake was better (or at least won the match up). NEED to at least see the tournament results before we start getting too worried... Just because we get to see more videos and more results doesn't change this really early stage of the meta.

It's such a shame that the oversight of removing vertical vectoring was derping up Diddy's game significantly (although appreciate down throw uair/bair with Marth).

lol, shaya step away from the ledge its going to be ok. The beginning of Smash 4's meta has been completely different from Brawl, most of the circumstances are not the same to draw good comparisons.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Nobody is obscenely strong enough to warrant a ban. It's alarmist, staaaahp.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Terotrous]

I can't decide how to feel about LM...

He's basically a character that's 100% fundamentals. He has little in the way of "technical moves", and he must be played like a boxer: stick and move, always stick and move.

I get the feeling that, if someone REALLY put their heart into him, they could be an utter MONSTER with LM, but it seems like we've not seen that yet.

Watch Bwett from Shockwave play LM. He's been wrecking almost everyone who isn't named Denti using him.

lol, shaya step away from the ledge its going to be ok. The beginning of Smash 4's meta has been completely different from Brawl, most of the circumstances are not the same to draw good comparisons.

I agree. You definitely shouldn't be that scared of Sheik anymore, she's very beatable for a bunch of characters. Also, while Diddy probably is the best in the game on paper it's not like he's winning every tournament yet, or even a really disproportionate amount.

 

[Iron Kraken]

I certainly don't think Diddy should be banned, but I disagree with many people in this thread who don't think Diddy is the best. I think Diddy is clearly the best character right now.

Just because Diddy doesn't place in the top 3 at every single tournament and that Diddy can be beat doesn't mean that Diddy isn't a step above the rest of the cast. No, Diddy is not broken. Yes, Diddy can be beat. But Diddy is the best character by a decent margin, in my opinion. No other character has the combination of Diddy's movement and kill power, and the downthrow to up-air is what puts him over the top.

It doesn't bother me in the slightest though because there is a 99.999% chance that Sakurai will nerf Diddy anyway. The question is when, not if. Sakurai stated in an interview recently that they just recently started working on Mewtwo. Realistically, Mewtwo will make Nintendo a lot of money, and even more SSB4 characters will be developed down the road. The point being, SSB4 is a game that will continue to be tinkered with for some time to come.

Sakurai is NOT ignorant of which characters are the most competitively viable. There was a very clear correlation between Japan's first tier list and which characters received nerfs.

So, with Diddy now as the only S tier character in Japan, nerfs are absolutely inevitable. And probably not just to only his downthrow like some people are thinking (although that's the most obvious nerf). There's a solid chance he will be nerfed across the board, similar to how Rosalina received literally about 20 different nerfs in the first balance patch. (Which people seem to forget, judging by all the people who want to use Rosalina as an example of how the meta can change. No, people didn't simply "figure Rosalina out." Rosalina was seriously nerfed. If she hadn't been touched she probably would have dominated Smash 4, so she needed nerfs, and she received them.)

So let's just appreciate this moment in time for what it is; It's the era of Diddy, which will soon come to its inevitable end. The only question is whether Diddy will be nerfed before or after Apex. My money is on after Apex, but the next patch is liable to hit us at any time. At the absolute latest, Diddy will be nerfed by the time Mewtwo arrives.

 

[Terotrous]

Just because Diddy doesn't place in the top 3 at every single tournament and that Diddy can be beat doesn't mean that Diddy isn't a step above the rest of the cast. No, Diddy is not broken. Yes, Diddy can be beat. But Diddy is the best character by a decent margin, in my opinion. No other character has the combination of Diddy's movement and kill power, and the downthrow to up-air is what puts him over the top.

Sure, but almost every game has one or a few characters who are noticeably better than everyone else. I certainly don't think Diddy 6-4s the entire cast like MK did, realistically vs a lot of the other good characters he's probably 5-5, it's just the lack of a lot of bad matchups that makes him the best. I'm still not really convinced the difference between Diddy and the rest of the good characters is that huge even though I do think he's clearly #1.

I also highly suspect Diddy nerfs are coming. As someone else mentioned, Diddy was indirectly buffed by the removal of vectoring, so they likely didn't realize he would be this strong.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Five little Diddys jumping on FD
One flew off his barrel and SD'd!

Four little Diddys jumping on FD
One threw an U-air and got a KO!

Three little Diddy's jumping on FD
One Monkey Flipped and SD'd!

Two little Diddys jumping on FD
One rolled into D-smash and got KO'd!

One little Diddy jumping on FD
One slipped on a banana peel and hurt his bum
Jtails took him to Sakurai
And Sakurai said,
No more U-airs getting early KO's

 

[Esquire]

Taking a break from the tl;dr analyses to post some quick impressions on characters people aren't talking about and some neat tidbits on other characters.



Wii Fit Trainer may have the best damage output in the game. I don't recall any other character being able to dish out this much damage in a few chunks outside of heavies. Except the difference is that WFT is fast and can recover.

Her NAir is disgusting, dishing out 14 damage and really messes up people trying to return to the ground. FAir looks to be the most useless aerial for her, but it's actually really good. 10 damage on sweet spot, hitbox on her back leg spikes, is a semi-sex kick. Her best offstage ledge gimping option by far. Her tilts hit hard: an absurd 12 damage on DTilt and really hard to punish from the air, FTilt hits both sides and can KO. UTilt is pretty meh though. Soccer balls do 9 damage. A .2 second charged Sun Salutation does 7 damage, just about as much as Pit's fully charged arrows. Max damage is 18, which is good, but it's the fact that low charged projectiles deal 10-12 damage on average. Hell, her throws deal higher than average damage, between 9-11 damage and all of them putting the opponent in bad spots. Oh, and that soccer special? If your opponent hits her head and the ball, it does 23 damage. And can spike.

Yes, her Smash attacks are not really practical and are primarily used for punishes. Her KO potential, as a result, is pretty bad at low damage outside of Deep Breathing boosted aerials and tilts. Her reach outside of BAir (which is her most practical aerial), DTilt, FTilt and jab combo is pretty bad. But tools are there to be had, and with patient play, you can easily get opponents to ~140% after maybe eight or nine solid hits. Plus, her side-B and up-B have great recovery potential, and she has two usable spikes and a third powerful spike (although situational as an option against foes who try to jump up from a ledge).

WFT is a completely reactionary character, though, which is why I personally believe players haven't gotten a hold on how to properly use her. She has the tools to apply pressure from afar while having the sheer damage output to make opponents not want to approach her. Many people in the metagame at the moment are focusing heavily on the mid game, which is probably why WFT players are frustrated trying to get WFT to combat mid-game approaches with her own poor mid-game approach. She needs to be in the air or punishing players who try to stand around her. I'm going to keep experimenting with her to see what situations suit her best, but there's potential for WFT to be an excellent pocket character to pull out.



Fun fact break: did you know that PK Flash travels further when Ness is facing backwards? It's by a pretty good distance, too. This might not be new for some, but it is for me!



My next write-up will probably be on R.O.B., but is there a better frame trapper in this game than this robot? The varied speeds and active frames on his attacks, combined with the sheer absurdity of his top trapping game and multi-hit moves, make me believe that in a game that values frame advantage R.O.B. has the most threatening traps. He might also be one of the best answers to characters who rely on zoning, like DHD and Rosalina. Piercing projectiles and traps are legit.



On custom moves: I'm finding that Pit's second custom, Piercing Bow, actually has a use in match-ups against specific opponents that normally give Pit trouble, including Rosalina and DHD. Piercing projectiles kind of were laughed at when revealed as custom options and many thought they only had use in FFA's, but the ability to hit Rosalina behind a Luma, Villager behind a tree and DHD behind a gunman/through a clay disk is pretty invaluable. If you're struggling with zoning characters who hide behind dead body defenses, try this.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

I can't decide how to feel about LM...

He's basically a character that's 100% fundamentals. He has little in the way of "technical moves", and he must be played like a boxer: stick and move, always stick and move.

I get the feeling that, if someone REALLY put their heart into him, they could be an utter MONSTER with LM, but it seems like we've not seen that yet.

Yes, I realize how royally ****ed he is once he's in the air or off the stage, but Mac has nearly all of the tools to prevent that from happening, especially in the hands of a competent player.

Do people just not take him to tournaments because he's too much of an all or nothing character or what?

There was a match i had where I almost got rekt. Shows how much potential LM has. He's a unique and intimidating character, but he isn't very versatile.

 

[Jabejazz]

I can't decide how to feel about LM...
[...]
Do people just not take him to tournaments because he's too much of an all or nothing character or what?

Probably. It makes for a very solid secondary, because it deals fairly well against some characters.
Then there's Peach that probably doesn't give a floating ****.

 

[Flamecircle]

Speaking of custom moves... are they being picked up yet? Are there any interesting weeklys or anything that have started using them that I could watch?

 

[Jaxas]

Speaking of custom moves... are they being picked up yet? Are there any interesting weeklys or anything that have started using them that I could watch?

Customs On and Off were probably about even (leaning towards Off) on the 3DS, but I think right now everyone's still in the unlocking-all-the-customs stage on the Wii U.