Character Bans

[Steam]

I don't think he's broken because people take games off of top MKs all the time, but you can't say he's not becoming the center of the game.

IDC and Pplanking are definitely broken. as is his planking in general... jussayin

 

[John12346]

Wow, and here I thought I had to be here to provoke discussion about MK

lmao

Anyway, I'll just leave my two cents on the matter. My data proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that MK is at least overcentralizing, and shows that MK might also be broken, but proving that would require manipulation of my data, which I'll take care of later or something.

 

[BSP]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=242903 you all remember that

just want to point stuff out now that the game has moved on some:

#1: Pplank and IDC
#2: lol. Even better is the fact that some of those names have picked up MK too
#3: we gave it time. Now it's growing into pick MK
#4: i still don't get how number 4 really did anything...
#5: in terms of planking, it is now

Pro's #s 2,3,5,6 and 9 stood back then, but now they're even stronger with even more evidence >_>

It's funny. Back then, anti- used MK's "lack" of prize money to support their claims. Try that now and see what happens

 

[John12346]

I personally thought ~30% was already too much, but now that it's turned into ~45%...

 

[ChKn]

"Too good" is better defined by money winnings than frame data or other debatable things. Through-out April, May and June, Metaknight won 30.18% of all cash prizes from Brawl Singes events. Winning 3 of every 10 available dollars swiftly dismisses any claims of a character's dominance. Moving on, all citations of a character's attributes are readily explained as top tier traits. Metaknight having the best recovery is easily comparable to DDD having the best grab, Falco having the best projectile, etc.

So would be winning 4-5 out of every 10 available dollars still not be enough lol?

ffff...Ninja'd by John.

 

[Tesh]

Stop looking at john's chart like that. Can someone find the post outlining PLAYER success percents. It was 20% across all of top tier. which means 80% of mk mains are failing just as bad at 80% of snake mains and 80% of diddy mains, olimar mains etc. Alot of people are picking mk and losing, just like any other character.

 

[san.]

They're probably losing to other MKs.


You have to admit, the 4th poll's anti-ban arguments have all been demolished. Things are only going to get worse.

 

[-Ran]

And the 'too late' argument doesn't work either. We're more or less going to have three more years of Brawl. That puts us at the halfway point of the Meta-game, before the twilight of the game.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Stop looking at john's chart like that. Can someone find the post outlining PLAYER success percents. It was 20% across all of top tier. which means 80% of mk mains are failing just as bad at 80% of snake mains and 80% of diddy mains, olimar mains etc. Alot of people are picking mk and losing, just like any other character.

Still wouldn't change the fact he's far too over centralizing, and basically ever counter argument has been squashed.

It's time to face the music: MK must be banned. Stop sitting around, do it already.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Can we have a new poll now seriously D:

 

[Jonas]

After looking at John#'s data, there's no doubt in my mind that MK is overcentralizing.

Face it. He's not far off from having 50% of all tournament money and almost takes 50% of money each week, even with splits. That's a problem.

I don't think he's broken because people take games off of top MKs all the time, but you can't say he's not becoming the center of the game.

He is in fact broken, he just hase a bunch of different gameplay rules that keep him "merely" top tier.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Oh yeah, my topic that talks about this directly gets locked after like two posts.

But talk about it covertly and it's fine.

I SEE HOW IT IS.

But yeah, ban that ****er.

 

[Steam]

Can we have a new poll now seriously D:

this is a good post.

give us poll

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Seriously, no BS locking of threads. The time has come to rediscuss banning Metaknight. The metagame is just going to stale more and more as more people drop their mains to play him.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

this is a good post.

give us poll

Time for another hopelessly doomed signature campaign.

Like the one I have.

 

[Tesh]

How is it overcentralizing just because alot of people do it? If there is evidence that individualy MK mains are failing as often as others? They probably lost to other MKs? Well fine, Snakes probably lost to other Snakes.

What if everyone just LOVES playing as Falcon? Lets say we have 100 players in a city. 50 of them use Falcon. 10 of these players win money sometimes. 10 other players use snake, but only 2 of them win money sometimes. Is Falcon overcentralizing?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

People don't love playing falcon because he isn't good

next

 

[Supreme Dirt]

If they lock this thread we should make a social group.

Also Tesh, overcentralizing means that sure, you can win if you're miles better than your opponent, but when it comes to two players of equal skill, if picking a single character gives you an advantage on your opponent regardless of their character choice, outside of picking the same character, there is only one logical choice if you are truly playing to win.

 

[Ussi]

The game is boring, ban MK so we can have fun again

/inb4failreason

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

There can be another poll without a discussion thread, you know!

No headache for moderators. No muss, no fuss! Just clean, sweet justice.

I have an idea guys let's add a meta-specific lgl and a scrooging rule and add 2 minutes to the timer and

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Ussi, that's a completely legitimate reason, imo.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Aren't most of our stages allowed or not based solely on how much a group of TOs likes them? heh

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Yeah, pretty much.

Also, looking at that poll, it seems from the last page that MK is in fact banned. What happened?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Yeah, pretty much.

Also, looking at that poll, it seems from the last page that MK is in fact banned. What happened?

they wanted a 2/3s majority which is a little silly but more importantly, we'd probably get that nowadays.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Also I read the page immediately before it. 40PPP fail.

 

[Jonas]

Ussi, that's a completely legitimate reason, imo.

No it's not, the only legitimate reason is that he is broken, and then we don't have to put up with stupid lgl or scrooging bs

Congratulations, the goal of the game is now to jump fewer times than your opponent. Try to convince SRK that it's a real fighting game now!

Buuuuut maybe I'm overestimating the problem. It's not like MK wins every single Brawl match he's in, he just... wins a lot of them. However winning 45% of all tournament money is just ridiculous lol.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

The idae that he has to win every single match or tournament is what spawned anti-ban's stupid stance. Get that slime out of here.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

You have to factor in player skill.

I think the fact that as Snake, Ally consistently placed under M2K, and since switching to MK, he now places consitently above him should say something.

Also I spy a mod. Well, it's been great and all, but I guess we're locked in a minute or two.

 

[Jonas]

Yup see ya next MK thread.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Nope, no mod viewing now.

Can anyone think of a valid reason left to not ban MK?

 

[Supreme Dirt]

He looks cool? No, I really can't.

If we do get locked: http://www.smashboards.com/group.php?groupid=2575

 

[Steam]

because he's in fact a blueberry.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I just realized he has the same colour scheme as Dialga.

Bricks were ****.

 

[Ussi]

By have fun.. Imagine how fun watching grand finals will be again.

 

[san.]

Yeah, pretty much.

Also, looking at that poll, it seems from the last page that MK is in fact banned. What happened?

4 polls in a row wanting to ban MK resulted in 2 (two) BBR votes.

This topic isn't going anywhere with all of the spammy posts, though.


Top players concerning MK tend to be neutral to negative, from my personal experience.

 

[Ishiey]

10whattheheckwereyouthinkings

This. :3 Looking forward to whatever data you bring up, John#s.

In a game with 36 different characters, it's pretty hard to argue that a character that wins 40%+ of tournament money and is used more than the second, third, and fourth best characters (~20%) combined isn't overcentralizing, imo. The anti-ban arguments no longer hold as well as they did before, either.

Also, no one reported this thread yet. Interesting.. probably because there's no flaming or trolling, since half of the people are saying "ban MK" and the other half are saying "there's a really strong case for saying that MK is overcentralizing, maybe we should look into this" Either way, a significant part of the implicit reason another discussion isn't allowed is because it would always degenerate into flaming and trolling and that's hard to control, so... good work being relatively civil, I guess?

I've been viewing this thread for a while, and will continue to do so. If things get out of hand, it will be locked, so keep on being civil and aim for intelligent discussion. That's the best way to start changing the opinion that the public can't handle the topic imo, which is likely the first step in getting the staff/BBR to consider starting another voting thread.

 

[Tesh]

have you guys even looked at the percentage won by each player? maybe m2k and ally are overcentralizing?

 

[san.]

Thanks Ishieymoro. I'd rather not let this topic go up in flames either, even though it's derailed from the initial post. Either way, it brings up the discussion on whether it's even possible at this point to consider banning a character.

We are at a much different point now than almost 2 years ago when the last poll was settled.

 

[John12346]

Wait, so we actually have a legitimate thread to discuss MK now? That's beyond awesome.

Anyway, maybe we should, like, make a list about all of the things MK has going for him? Like, successes that he has, rules that he circumvents, counterpick systems that he breaks, etc.

Just add to the list, guys:
- MK has won about 45% of all tournament money in 2011 so far, which is an increase of 15% since the last ban vote.
- MK has 118 different users who have won at least $20 with him(<$20 isn't significant), while Snake only has 44 such users.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Three years isn't a very long time. Brawl will continue to be played at least until Smash 4 comes out and probably after that by the splinter group who hates Smash 4 because it's too easy or whatever.