Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
MK isn't Ike.
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Character Bans
- Thread starter Flutter NiTE
- Start date
Budget Player Cadet_
Smash Hero
Bingo. MK's fair would literally be strictly better if it was non-transcendent.
Low weight + grab releases actually adds up to a very real issue with the character; it means some characters have guaranteed kills out of a grab around 120 or so (grab release->dolphin slash, air grab->grab release->fox usmash, etc.); others can kill far earlier with the help of stage fixtures (snake grab release->utilt on RC or SV platforms, for example).
If that's enough... Meh, Marth, Fox, Falco, and several others seem to be coming fairly close to even; there's just ****ing nobody who plays any of them in the USA. There is no equivalent of Mr R or Leon in USA; the only noteworthy falco and fox are DEHF and TKD respectively, and they don't go to all that many huge nationals. Vinnie thinks G&W almost goes even... I find that claim rather hard to believe.
John12346
Smash Master
What about Nado, though?
Although yeah, aerial transcendence isn't any good...
On the ground, though, it's very good because it lets MK power through attacks that he would otherwise clash with... w/e
Although yeah, aerial transcendence isn't any good...
On the ground, though, it's very good because it lets MK power through attacks that he would otherwise clash with... w/e
Kuro~
Nitoryu Kuro
Are you dumb? Mk is not bad vs wario tires...just ...wow. PLease give me a video where transcendence caused the mk to lose. If he's already in the air probability says with his frame data he's gonna be pretty safe regardless. He doesn't need to clank someone when he outspeeds them by a good margin. And please don't even bring up that fox ****. That will happen maybe once every 5 sets. If that. It can help marth and snake however.
xDD-Master
Smash Champion
Please stop disussing if you dont know ****
Its too bad no one with good grab release options on him can deal with him otherwise. Like whats the best Snake can do out of a grab release when not on the Smashville platform/RC? Other than that no character that does okay in the matchup can even exploit this "weakness".
rPSIvysaur
[ɑɹsaɪ]
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2009
- Messages
- 16,415
Bar the whole being MK, he does have a susceptibility to tires while in the air. His transcendent aerials will not clash with the tires, meaning he can't zone with f-air against them, like many other characters would be able to against them. The whole problem with this, is that it's all that Wario can really do with a tire in hand, so the MK knows what to expect and catches it... etc. etc. I could go on, but xD was right about the tires.
John12346
Smash Master
Oops AE can and probably will be balance patched and Phoenix isn't the best character in MvC3, just a total ****** at times
get@me
xDD-Master
Smash Champion
Agreed.
Yun is good, but still beatable.
SF has a completely different system. I think and would say that it's much easier to outsmart a Yun player than outsmarting a save playing meta knight (Scrooging, Planking, Camping etc.).
It's not that you can run away the whole match with Yun. You have to attack to win, which will make you predictable if done bad and it gives your oppenant openings which can be explored. Yun of course is pretty **** anyway. MK, on the other hand, doesnt gives you that much openings to explore, if played very smart.
But it's a different system, so you may shouldnt compare anyway.
And Phoenix is like ICs or Wario. It has a match-breaker with Dark Phoenix just like the Chaingrab or the Fart. Hit / CG and win, or miss Fart / drop CG and lose.
But I dont play either Game (SF4/MvC3) so I can only judge by theory and what I saw in Matches from Streams.
Yun is good, but still beatable.
SF has a completely different system. I think and would say that it's much easier to outsmart a Yun player than outsmarting a save playing meta knight (Scrooging, Planking, Camping etc.).
It's not that you can run away the whole match with Yun. You have to attack to win, which will make you predictable if done bad and it gives your oppenant openings which can be explored. Yun of course is pretty **** anyway. MK, on the other hand, doesnt gives you that much openings to explore, if played very smart.
But it's a different system, so you may shouldnt compare anyway.
And Phoenix is like ICs or Wario. It has a match-breaker with Dark Phoenix just like the Chaingrab or the Fart. Hit / CG and win, or miss Fart / drop CG and lose.
But I dont play either Game (SF4/MvC3) so I can only judge by theory and what I saw in Matches from Streams.
John12346
Smash Master
Seriously though, who would complain about MK's legality if we knew a re-release of Brawl analogous to PAL Melee was going to happen?
It a really simple concept; if a character's going to get nerfed in the future, just be patient...
It a really simple concept; if a character's going to get nerfed in the future, just be patient...
Steam
Smash Hero
MK is better comparable to SF2 akuma. MK's planking has been proven to be essentially unbeatable. lol
Budget Player Cadet_
Smash Hero
It's not about "win or lose". It's about options. Characters like Marth, Snake, and Wario are just better at dealing with the tires.
Dash attack kills at like 150?
xDD-Master
Smash Champion
Why should you if you have a 100% guaranteed kill?
Steam
Smash Hero
oh hey guys. they had a MK banned tourney in the MW. and ganon won it.
John12346
Smash Master
That was MK banned!?
*scurries off to fix raw data*
*scurries off to fix raw data*
Steam
Smash Hero
either that or just no one used MK
Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
MK is banned, the so called worst in game wins a tournament? Yes.
If things like that are possible in small scale, imagine what could happen in the long run. The Meta Game would be sooooo much better with the larger character diversity. You couldnt be like FOW who only can play MK and the few other top tiers and do good, you'd have to know how to play pretty much every character in the game.
Also, a nice little skype discussion I lurked, names changed for protection:
If things like that are possible in small scale, imagine what could happen in the long run. The Meta Game would be sooooo much better with the larger character diversity. You couldnt be like FOW who only can play MK and the few other top tiers and do good, you'd have to know how to play pretty much every character in the game.
Also, a nice little skype discussion I lurked, names changed for protection:
[2:53:54 PM] 1: imagine MK banned, we could be happy again
[2:53:59 PM] 2: I'd play brawl again
[2:54:06 PM] 2: and it'd be a different kind of metagame
[2:54:11 PM] 2: at least with more characters
[2:54:19 PM] 1: Yeah the game would be better =/
[2:54:21 PM] 2: so I'd understand losing to other characters
[2:54:23 PM] 1: faaar better
[2:54:35 PM] 1: you can learn by losing
[2:54:40 PM] 1: but not by losing vs. MK
[2:54:47 PM] 2: that's all the metagame is now
[2:54:51 PM] 2: how to beat MK
[2:54:55 PM] 2: and the answer is
[2:55:26 PM] 2: be an MK slayer, which only gives you the CHANCE to win, or go MK to have a chance at beating MK
[2:55:33 PM] 2: like
[2:55:41 PM] 2: the people that have said MK is beatable
[2:55:44 PM] 2: notice that
[2:56:13 PM] 2: most of the MK slayers have won a fairly low amount in comparision to MK winning against them
[2:56:30 PM] 1: ADHD is on a losing streak after winning a lot a year ago :/
[2:56:42 PM] 2: or course games got to the 3rd match, but the outcome is still mainly a loss
[2:57:03 PM] 1: RC/Brinstar counterpick =D
[2:58:06 PM] 2: it's almost not even that
[2:58:12 PM] 2: watching M2k play
[2:58:20 PM] 1: M2K so gay =x
[2:58:25 PM] 2: and barely lose with the same tactics he's used since 09
[2:58:49 PM] 2: you would wonder when people would think that MK can win by promoting no play
[2:59:21 PM] 2: and what's funny
[2:59:22 PM] 2: outside of MK
[2:59:40 PM] 2: only Pit and Jiggs are like the two that can somewhat replicate that
[3:00:15 PM] 2: and those two can be counterpicked much harder than MK and can easily lose leads moreso than MK
[3:00:37 PM] 3: and you know
[3:00:39 PM] 3: are beatable
[3:00:59 PM] 3: Puff is gay as **** tho i wont lie lol
[3:01:46 PM] 3: Something i see happening
[3:01:56 PM] 3: BBR ANNOUNCES MK BANNED!
[3:02:00 PM] 3: Woooooooooooooo~
[3:02:08 PM] 1: would be awesome
[3:02:16 PM] 3: Unity Ruleset allows MK
[3:02:20 PM] 3: ;-;
[3:02:27 PM] 4: lawl
[3:06:43 PM] 1: imagine
[3:06:49 PM] 1: they would hold another poll
[3:06:50 PM] 1: now
[3:06:53 PM] 1: for MK being banned
[3:07:04 PM] 1: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=242903 here are the votes
[3:07:07 PM] 1: in 2009!!!
[3:07:11 PM] 1: imagine how they would now look like
[3:07:49 PM] 3: Saddest part is the majority said ban him
[3:07:59 PM] 1: and now even more people would say ban him
[3:08:05 PM] 1: including me (I voted for no back then)
[3:08:20 PM] 1: ADHD voted for no too
[3:08:29 PM] 1: he would vote for yes now for sure
[3:08:30 PM] 3: LOL OH YEAH
[3:08:33 PM] 3: You did say no lmao
[3:08:47 PM] 3: Did you seriously not think he was bannable?
[3:08:54 PM] 1: back then.
[2:53:59 PM] 2: I'd play brawl again
[2:54:06 PM] 2: and it'd be a different kind of metagame
[2:54:11 PM] 2: at least with more characters
[2:54:19 PM] 1: Yeah the game would be better =/
[2:54:21 PM] 2: so I'd understand losing to other characters
[2:54:23 PM] 1: faaar better
[2:54:35 PM] 1: you can learn by losing
[2:54:40 PM] 1: but not by losing vs. MK
[2:54:47 PM] 2: that's all the metagame is now
[2:54:51 PM] 2: how to beat MK
[2:54:55 PM] 2: and the answer is
[2:55:26 PM] 2: be an MK slayer, which only gives you the CHANCE to win, or go MK to have a chance at beating MK
[2:55:33 PM] 2: like
[2:55:41 PM] 2: the people that have said MK is beatable
[2:55:44 PM] 2: notice that
[2:56:13 PM] 2: most of the MK slayers have won a fairly low amount in comparision to MK winning against them
[2:56:30 PM] 1: ADHD is on a losing streak after winning a lot a year ago :/
[2:56:42 PM] 2: or course games got to the 3rd match, but the outcome is still mainly a loss
[2:57:03 PM] 1: RC/Brinstar counterpick =D
[2:58:06 PM] 2: it's almost not even that
[2:58:12 PM] 2: watching M2k play
[2:58:20 PM] 1: M2K so gay =x
[2:58:25 PM] 2: and barely lose with the same tactics he's used since 09
[2:58:49 PM] 2: you would wonder when people would think that MK can win by promoting no play
[2:59:21 PM] 2: and what's funny
[2:59:22 PM] 2: outside of MK
[2:59:40 PM] 2: only Pit and Jiggs are like the two that can somewhat replicate that
[3:00:15 PM] 2: and those two can be counterpicked much harder than MK and can easily lose leads moreso than MK
[3:00:37 PM] 3: and you know
[3:00:39 PM] 3: are beatable
[3:00:59 PM] 3: Puff is gay as **** tho i wont lie lol
[3:01:46 PM] 3: Something i see happening
[3:01:56 PM] 3: BBR ANNOUNCES MK BANNED!
[3:02:00 PM] 3: Woooooooooooooo~
[3:02:08 PM] 1: would be awesome
[3:02:16 PM] 3: Unity Ruleset allows MK
[3:02:20 PM] 3: ;-;
[3:02:27 PM] 4: lawl
[3:06:43 PM] 1: imagine
[3:06:49 PM] 1: they would hold another poll
[3:06:50 PM] 1: now
[3:06:53 PM] 1: for MK being banned
[3:07:04 PM] 1: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=242903 here are the votes
[3:07:07 PM] 1: in 2009!!!
[3:07:11 PM] 1: imagine how they would now look like
[3:07:49 PM] 3: Saddest part is the majority said ban him
[3:07:59 PM] 1: and now even more people would say ban him
[3:08:05 PM] 1: including me (I voted for no back then)
[3:08:20 PM] 1: ADHD voted for no too
[3:08:29 PM] 1: he would vote for yes now for sure
[3:08:30 PM] 3: LOL OH YEAH
[3:08:33 PM] 3: You did say no lmao
[3:08:47 PM] 3: Did you seriously not think he was bannable?
[3:08:54 PM] 1: back then.
xDD-Master
Smash Champion
Depends. You can definitely get a grab with MK having 150%+ damage.
And if it happens, why should you do something else than a garuanteed kill?
And if it happens, why should you do something else than a garuanteed kill?
On the main part of the stage in a position where MK won't land on a platform or otherwise be unable to be hit?
Sure if you're able to go for it, go for it.
It just never happens, lol
Pikaville
Pikaville returns 10 years later.
Anyone who has a special that involves getting an item of some sort should be banned.
So Wario/Diddy/Peach.
So Wario/Diddy/Peach.
Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
KoNfucius
Smash Ace
i play multiple characters but since i can, i always go mk in tourny. i love trolling ppl by going mk then not banning FD the switching to diddy its a sound strategy i would give these rules a try. as a side event.
moomoomamoo
Smash Apprentice
Same goes for me. My diddy and falco are just as good as my metaknight. It just varies between who I'm playing and who they use. When I start round 1 with metaknight, they tend to leave final alone. Before I didn't have to worry about losing a counterpick for diddy or falco since I'd always have picto.
On a side note, without picto, what stage does sonic and ice climbers go to if they ban final and win on smashville for their round 1?
On a side note, without picto, what stage does sonic and ice climbers go to if they ban final and win on smashville for their round 1?
Supreme Dirt
King of the Railway
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2009
- Messages
- 7,336
I remember thinking Nado was the problem with MK.
Ah silly me.
Ah silly me.
Ussi
Smash Legend
What tourney was that? >_>
FoxFireMage
Smash Apprentice
In regards to the original idea, no. I'm a Fox purist on it works for me as I strive to improve my own weaknesses on bad matchups. For the gathering small tourney data mentioned earlier I have a tourney in Tucson, AZ approaching and since I'm TO I could test it out and give you guys the results
