Chain grabbing should be banned...(CG, stalling)

[Veggi]

It got banned for being BROKEN.

Why is it broken?

It got banned for stagnating the metagame. Or the obvious potential to.

Now why could it stagnate the metagame?

It's because it's cheap. Why should they ban it? MK players were just being efficient.

 

[salaboB]

Why is it broken?

Go read any thread specifically about it, the reasons are plentiful and well discussed.

 

[ADHD]

Grow up you god **** babies

 

[Veggi]

Go read any thread specifically about it, the reasons are plentiful and well discussed.

The answer to both questions was after the two questions...

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Why is it broken?

ultimate broken stall tactic, and since hes invisible you can't even hit him out of it unlike JP rising pound stall or Sonics B stall.

Now why could it stagnate the metagame?

It's because it's cheap. Why should they ban it? MK players were just being efficient.

what i said, and others have said above.
besides how can the metagame go anywhere if all you have to do to win is get the first KO or high enough percents then dissapear for the rest of the match? so simple and everyone can d o it since MK isn't that hard to learn.

 

[salaboB]

The answer to both questions was after the two questions...

That was your answer. Your answer is not the answer to it, because the IDC is not banned simply for being "cheap".

 

[SuSa]

I love how no one speaks of Snake's infinite on ledges.

(Go to ledge, dthrow > regrab)

cheapest infinite next to the wall infinite......

 

[Uffe]

I have really no problem with chain grabbing, but if this is what this game is just going to come down to just to win, then forget it.

 

[kr3wman]

I love how no one speaks of Snake's infinite on ledges.

(Go to ledge, dthrow > regrab)

cheapest infinite next to the wall infinite......

Just bair.

There.

 

[Pearl Floatzel]

I believe the correct answer is:
Don't get grabbed.

No.
Seriously.
Don't get grabbed.
Space.
Move around.
Super grab break.
Whatever you have to do.
You don't automatically start the match against Pika with him grabbing you. Same with DDD. And Falco, and IC's.
To Havokk:
Snake's infinite is stupidly situational. It's very hard to set up, and requires perfect timing. No leeway.
So.



Don't get grabbed.

 

[Veggi]

ultimate broken stall tactic, and since hes invisible you can't even hit him out of it unlike JP rising pound stall or Sonics B stall.




what i said, and others have said above.
besides how can the metagame go anywhere if all you have to do to win is get the first KO or high enough percents then dissapear for the rest of the match? so simple and everyone can d o it since MK isn't that hard to learn.

It doesn't matter what degree his cheapness is. I'm just using what's efficient. I'm not arguing that the IDC should be back in. All I'm here to prove is that if someone thinks that cheap is not a reason to ban something, they contradict themselves if they agree with the IDC ban.

For the record, all you have to do is stay in the lead the whole game or don't give MK enough room to use it. You can say that MK is easy to use, but is it easy to stay in the glitch the whole match?

 

[JigglyZelda003]

I love how no one speaks of Snake's infinite on ledges.

(Go to ledge, dthrow > regrab)

cheapest infinite next to the wall infinite......

thats a situational infinite that requires he be on an edge and its possible to mess up much easier than say DDDs standing one since he can start that on the 5 characters anywhere.

 

[brinboy789]

thats a situational infinite that requires he be on an edge and its possible to mess up much easier than say DDDs standing one since he can start that on the 8 characters anywhere.

fixed. and yea snakes infinite is hard to set up and is partly luck/predicting

 

[cutter]

fixed. and yea snakes infinite is hard to set up and is partly luck/predicting

There is no luck involved once Snake's Dthrow infinite is set up.

 

[brinboy789]

There is no luck involved once Snake's Dthrow infinite is set up.

well more like predicting...

 

[JigglyZelda003]

It doesn't matter what degree his cheapness is. I'm just using what's efficient. I'm not arguing that the IDC should be back in. All I'm here to prove is that if someone thinks that cheap is not a reason to ban something, they contradict themselves if they agree with the IDC ban.

For the record, all you have to do is stay in the lead the whole game or don't give MK enough room to use it. You can say that MK is easy to use, but is it easy to stay in the glitch the whole match?

going invisible takes just about as long as foxs shine to come out, thats like what 4 frames? unless you happen to stick close enough to him you can't really interupt it. and even if you are close he can zone away with whorenado or shuttleloop. and what if you can't get in the lead fast enough? MK has more advantages matchups than disadvantages ones both in characters and stages, couple that with his ability to outprioriterize, speed, reach lots of things.

no its not easy staying in it forever, but with shuttle loop or B and enough room, if he got tired of holding it he could do those until hes ready to dissapear again.

 

[cutter]

well more like predicting...

There is no "predicting" involved when infiniting your opponent. It's called an infinite for a reason.

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

1. You can only CG 5 times before you must let the opponent go
2. Don't get grabbed. It's really not that hard to stay away from these, and if your opponent spams infinites with DDD or something, then they have no life and should learn how to play the game
3. CG's can be DI'd out of. Falco can CG my marth 2 times before I DI out of it easily, putting an end to his grabs for good
4. Cheap? They wouldn't have made it if it was cheap or unfair to a large extent. Game makers are not out to get us.

lern2counterpik

 

[JigglyZelda003]

1. You can only CG 5 times before you must let the opponent go

(while holding) jabjab grab refreshed, the infinite continues. lol

2

. Don't get grabbed. It's really not that hard to stay away from these, and if your opponent spams infinites with DDD or something, then they have no life and should learn how to play the game

problem A: most people don't want to hear it ("don't get grabbed") cause its too blunt to comprehend, seriously i can see someone quoting this later saying its stupid. ive seen it happen 50x+ don't waste your breath on this statement.
problem B: on DDD his grab range is big so spacing is very very hard if you can't camp him or have a disjointed hitbox thats fast or big, like the 5 he infinites. and only truely DK is finished, the other 4 have a litttle leway.

if the infinite is just being spammed then the other player should have a better chance, but thats not always the case unfortunatley. most want his infinite banned anyway in that other thread.

3. CG's can be DI'd out of. Falco can CG my marth 2 times before I DI out of it easily, putting an end to his grabs for good

true when the time comes when you can DI.

4. Cheap? They wouldn't have made it if it was cheap or unfair to a large extent. Game makers are not out to get us.

Orly? then why do tripping, invisible hitboxs, and MK exist? anyway cheap =/= broken.

lern2counterpik

tried that one too, and only some want to listen.

 

[Veggi]

going invisible takes just about as long as foxs shine to come out, thats like what 4 frames? unless you happen to stick close enough to him you can't really interupt it. and even if you are close he can zone away with whorenado or shuttleloop. and what if you can't get in the lead fast enough? MK has more advantages matchups than disadvantages ones both in characters and stages, couple that with his ability to outprioriterize, speed, reach lots of things.

no its not easy staying in it forever, but with shuttle loop or B and enough room, if he got tired of holding it he could do those until hes ready to dissapear again.

It's 3 frames for Fox's shine. I don't know about how long it takes to erase MK's hurtbox, but it's longer than Fox's shine, a lot longer it seems although I'll admit that I don't have the frame data for that. So you could stay close to him with attacks that don't have much knockback. So basically you could counter-pick Falco and as long as you got a grab (easy) you could erase the chance of an early win and MK does not get an advantage by having a significant amount more percent, while Falco does. Also, tornado and shuttle loop are punishable and I never said it was easy to win against someone who uses IDC.

couple that with his ability to outprioriterize, speed, reach lots of things.

causes

MK has more advantages matchups than disadvantages ones both in characters and stages

so that would be one point. Once again, I never said it would be easy. It's just using the most efficient option.

All of this is close to irrelevant anyway, I'm just here to point out that it's banned for being cheap.

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

Yarly. I'm pretty sure they didn't make MK to smite people. Most likely when his moveset was made, they didn't find it to be as superior to the other characters as it really is. You can beat MK pretty easily with diddy. I've almost never lost a match to an MK with diddy. And when you chain grab, isn't punching then throwing still considered part of the chain? I've never done Grab, punch, grab, and thought of that as a new combo just because I punched. He's still in your hands. And with DDD, you can't win a match completely by spamming chain grab. Why on earth would you play a tool who does that anyways? I'm pretty sure I would cancel out of the match. That's not really skill, it's just kind of saying "I have no strategy whatsoever! Therefore, I'm going to chain grab you this entire match, then get one hit on you and say I'm a skilled player" If someone beat me like that I would just tell him/her to go fall down a well. That kind of destroys the "Fun" aspect of this game, I believe.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

@Veggi
its not banned cause its cheap, its banned cause its broken. cheapness has nothing to do with it. and with that im not discussing MK IDC anymore.

@Banjo
yeah the jabs during the hold make it the infinite on those 5 characters cause it refreshes the grab, its also the chance of possible escape if you mash fast enough during those jabs. its still a losing match though. and really someone can kinda win running around there and spamming grab all day, its not impossible, but i just doubt in a higher success rate that way. although considering the ease of that infinite.

 

[cutter]

Yarly. I'm pretty sure they didn't make MK to smite people. Most likely when his moveset was made, they didn't find it to be as superior to the other characters as it really is.

I'm pretty sure we can say safely that MK was not designed to be broken in the first place like Akuma was.

You can beat MK pretty easily with diddy. I've almost never lost a match to an MK with diddy.

Oooookay.

And when you chain grab, isn't punching then throwing still considered part of the chain? I've never done Grab, punch, grab, and thought of that as a new combo just because I punched. He's still in your hands.

Are you in an area that completely limits all chaingrabs/infinites?

And with DDD, you can't win a match completely by spamming chain grab. Why on earth would you play a tool who does that anyways?

D3's grab game is an integral part of himself. OF COURSE you're going be grabbing people often.

I'm pretty sure I would cancel out of the match. That's not really skill, it's just kind of saying "I have no strategy whatsoever! Therefore, I'm going to chain grab you this entire match, then get one hit on you and say I'm a skilled player" If someone beat me like that I would just tell him/her to go fall down a well. That kind of destroys the "Fun" aspect of this game, I believe.

Play to win. I'm not going to handcuff myself into thinking something is cheap or takes no skill to use. When money is on the line, use all your resources.

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

I was not aware. Blech, well, it's so debatable. I can't really say that it should or shouldn't be banned, but if I could, I'd lean towards not banning it.

 

[G1G4 G0N0RRH34]

wow, what a scrub.

chaingrabbing is lame, but not broken enough to ban.

This game isnt about having fun.

Its about winning at all cost using any and all exploits within the game.

Stop learning the metagame if you want to preserve any sense of fun you have left in the game.

lmfao good post.

Compared to Melee, I dont think Brawl has as many "flaws/broken tactics."

Ignorant scrub.

 

[B0mbe1c]

Says the guy who joined this month. =/
And with a 10 year old name.

 

[Yeniths]

You sir are an idiot.

 

[B0mbe1c]

No u.
Anyways, Banning the infinite or limiting is ok with me, but meh..

 

[misterpimp5757]

i dont think chaingrabs are that bad...except for ice climbers.....................................................................................

 

[XienZo]

Now why could it stagnate the metagame?

It's because it's cheap. Why should they ban it? MK players were just being efficient.

Cheapness doesn't stagnate the metagame at all.


IDC stagnates the metagame by effectively limiting the total time of the match, causing matches to be won by a smaller margin, decreasing the use of high-risk, high reward techniques and strategies, effectively cutting down on the number of techniques and viable characters, stagnating the metagame.

 

[cutter]

I think we can safely say that IC's chaingrabs are not going to be banned anytime soon.

 

[smaci92]

You sir are an idiot.

lol you called the guy an idiot, and you didn't even have anything to back it up

 

[MorpheusVGX]

Honorable? This is a fighting game. Lol @ honorable. If you fight a war against another country, are you going to be "honorable" and not use a weapon that could potentially win the war for you with less cost and less casualties? If you're fox, DON'T use fox against pikachu. There is not honor in fights...You should do whatever it takes to win.



...Because you beat someone stupid enough to pick fox against your pikachu. Uhh...every character except MK has to resort to secondaries to cover matchups...You seriously can't expect to choose one character (especially fox) to play in EVERY matchup. Every main has to switch characters (besides MK), not just fox mains.



Competitive spirit...isn't that beating your opponent no matter the cost? At tournament play, anything that isn't used to stall is considered fair.

What am I suppose to do? Do damage and stand there to beat hit? I guess that is "honorable."



The fox boards have the pika:fox match up as "LOL!", not "9:1"

Umm..counterpick? I can proficiently use 4 characters and I'm currently working on 2 more. If you only use one character, you suck.

It's so easy? How about you try to chaingrab me from 0-death consistantly with IC's? I've spent about 12 hours on it and I'm barely able to get past 50%.

Also, learn to space yourself so you DON'T get grabbed...




I beat ten bucks this guy just got owned by a pikachu online. Any takers?

Cocky idiots like you really pisses me off... I don't main fox and I've not been beaten bla bla.. I just saw a video of Pikachu infiniting Fox... a standing and infinite chain grabbing...

Even if you want to deny it.. there is a feeling of honor in fighting games.. This is not war.. its a competition.. In many sports there are rules to prevent cheap strategies to win.. This game.. unlike Melee, has awful crack that we shouldn't exploit to win.. if you feel good after chain grabbing all the fight.. or infinite grab ... you are pathetic.. So you would use any stupid strategy to win, even if it is obvious that is unmanly and cheap? How lame...

Competitive spirit is to give everything to win on a fair environment.. Not this grabbing crap..
Match up? Why would I have to use that? I use many characters.. but I think every player should have a character for epic fights.. your main.... the character you strive to be the best with.. If I go to a tournament.. I would like to stick with my main in all matches.. In a fair game.. that should be possible.... Brawl is pretty balanced.. except for this broken tactics based on poor beta testing.. Things we should fix with rules and with honor (don't using those tactics, the same way you should not hurt your opponnent and then run away until the time expires). To me, counterpicking is not manly. I can't win with my character so I pick this other".. If I cannot win against someone with my Sheik/Zelda.. I expect it is not because of someone abusing a tactic like infinite grabbing or chain grabbing on me..

P.D. I am not against multi-maining.. but you shouln't have to be forced to counterpick because of a broken tactic done against your character.. What I say is..
counterpicking shouldn't be an argument against banning a tactic done against a character..

 

[smaci92]

if chaingrabbing pisses you off, don't play the game. It's that simple...You don't have to make a thread to bash chaingrabbing when half of the people on here don't even mind it.

just do me a favor and stop being gay. -_-

 

[Barge]

I think we can safely say that IC's chaingrabs are not going to be banned anytime soon.

If they ban ic's chain grabs, they should ban MK and Snake first.

Chain grabs are the only things getting ice climbers to high tier. (I'm not saying ice climbers are bad without them, infact they're really good, but its one of their main strengths) without chain grabs theres not much to fear about ice climbers. And some of our good matchups will decrease in advantage-ness-ity.

 

[Jupz]

chain grabbing shouldnt be banned. no way... i dont care about infinites but not chaingrabbing

 

[_Phloat_]

Don't argue with those who don't learn. He isn't approaching with an open mind, rather he knows his stance and wants to randomly banter about it.

Let it die, he doesn't deserve attention.

 

[SUNG475]

I like how you used unmanly as a legitimate reason : D

I think it's gay too but ya gotta live with it

 

[SSD]

Hey guys.

This game is about having fun.

You may say it's about making money, or about winning, or whatever.

But why do you care about winning?

Because winning is fun.

If there wasn't any fun in winning, you wouldn't be doing it.

Also, there are better ways to make money than playing games,(unless we're talking about starcraft in korea, lol) but to many pros, I believe they play games for money because it is the way to make money that provides the most FUN in doing so.

I mean, what could be better than making money by simply doing what you find to be fun?

You play the game because in the game, winning is fun. And through winning, the game is fun.
You play for the fun of winning.
You play for fun.


tl;dr: don't get grabbed, scrub.

 

[sToRm07]

After seeing Pikachu's Chain Grab over Fox I have to say these.. this unmanly tactics should be banned from honorable play. Abusing a game flaw shouldn't be used like this and any player with some honor should not use this to win. Really, how can someone feel good by winning like this? Why a fox main has to change his character against a pikachu because people would abuse this detestable game bug? The same way as Infinite Dimensional Cape is banned, and some tactics like doing damage and running away until the time goes out wouln't probably be allowed on tournaments... detestable tactics like chain grabbing should be banned... It really breaks the game.. it really hurts Brawl as a game... It goes against the competitive spirit... Do not tell me that you can counterpick.. as I think that is also unmanly...you should be able to use any character against the other without a matchup like 9:1 because of a silly bad programmed chain grab.. You can be sure Sakurai didn't wanted this to be in the game.. A tactic that can be used like that over and over and it is so easy and broken should be banned for tournament play..
Who is with me?

how about just don't get grabbed? A lazy attitude towards dealing with disadvantages like CG combos just breeds crap like this.

kthnxbai