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[Niko45]

Marth's combo game is great against CF, but nothing trumps CFs combo game on Marth. Pretty much starting from a grab at 0, CF can tech chase/DI read on reaction combo Marth to death. Marth doesn't really "combo" CF from 0-40, and a lot of marth combos are circumstantial/escapable before a KO move is actually delivered. Marth will actually need to make a few reads (aka educated guesses) in order to combo CF fully through to death, but CF actually doesn't even need this. He can defeat Marth on reaction alone (after finding an initial opening, of course). Obviously the CF needs to be fantastic to execute flawlessly like that over and over again but the great CFs do it.

 

[Winston]

Can Falcon do that even on the platform stages though? How does Falcon cover all the options and keep the combo going if Marth lands on a platform? He can easily get a read and stomp which pretty much kills Marth, but that makes it not guaranteed.

 

[Niko45]

He could always just wait for whatever and up air from underneath. Depending on the platform size and also if he has time to fast fall the dair, he can still cover tech away with regrab.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I keep wanting to say you can tech chase Falcon and either trap him at the edge or chase him into a launcher, but I keep remembering that Marth players suck so that's not a legitimate option for most of them

 

[Niko45]

Sucking is definitely an issue

 

[Bob Money]

Marth beats Falcon imo 6 -4 you can lock his character down. If you have better spacing you're going to win.
It should be hell for falcon to touch marth. F throw tech chase.

M2k says falcon beats marth...i'll see if I can get a match with his falcon at Bio 4.

 

[KILLA.FOR.CASH.]

Marth beats Falcon imo 6 -4 you can lock his character down. If you have better spacing you're going to win.
It should be hell for falcon to touch marth. F throw tech chase.

M2k says falcon beats marth...i'll see if I can get a match with his falcon at Bio 4.

yeah i agree... falcon cant touch marth for ****. with proper spacing marth owns this matchup.. basically i agree with everythign you said =)

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

That only works on yoshis and FoD. Even battlefield gives him enough room to get the job done. Fight on dreamland or kj64 and you'll never play the match-up again.

 

[Uck]

Hitstun and shieldstun are for both the attacker and the defender right?Is hitstun just as long for both the attacker and defender?Can someone explain where I get my frame advantage from?

If I hit someone and stun them for 5 frames and I get stunned for the same 5 frames by hitting him? Im so confused. lol

 

[KAOSTAR]

you mean shield stun I think, unless you are talking about combing. then its hit stun.

each move takes a certain amount of frames to complete. depending on the decay of the move, it does a certain amount of shield stun which is the time the defender is trapped in his shield andcannot move.

the advantage comes from a move doing more shield stun than time remaining on the move. 5 frame move, hits on frame 3, 7 frames of shield stun is a 2 frame window in which you can move and your opponent can't.

somebody correct me if im off.

 

[Dart!]

I think you're including people who don't actually know the match-up. Marth >> Falcon if they don't understand the match-up.

hmm...lets see
falcons i beat
Jace
Book
GooeyBanana
Smeesh *we're tied 1-1 in tourneys so far*
and one other guy i can't remember atm
-----------------------------------------------------------
falcons who beat me
Smeesh

of those people the only person who doesn't know marth is Gooey
i suppose technically speaking yeah i did.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I'm not gonna talk trash about any of those people, but lets just say my point stands. I was talking about falcons at vro's level or better.

 

[Niko45]

Yea I am also basically spotlessly successful against every not super famous CF player. I think the matchup changes at top level tho. Watch HBK vs Hax (Even tho HBK 3-1'd him in WF).

 

[Palpi]

Hax ended up wining the tourney in GF right?

 

[Niko45]

Yea he went 3-0 and 3-1 to win that. I personally think Hax is the most impressive CF vs Marth, tho I could be biased because I have only played Hax out of what I'd consider the 3 major CFs (SS, Darkrain, Hax). But if you watch him vs HBK, he camps top platform, he keeps moving around safely, and when he gets an opening he constantly punishes into an edgeguard which he also nails a lot of the time.

CFs edgeguard is really good on Marth, because you have to respect him coming at you with bair. If you drop low to go under bair, he might fake bair and just jump back to the ledge, which would then force marth to up B on stage and get reverse knee'd back off. It's not impossible to recover by any means but its one of the better edgeguards vs Marth imo.

 

[Dart!]

I'm not gonna talk trash about any of those people, but lets just say my point stands. I was talking about falcons at vro's level or better.

i think jace and smeesh are better than vro

 

[JBM falcon08]

Never seen Vro, but smeesh is a one of the respectable falcons in the midwest.

If dart has beaten smeesh thats a job well done. I play with smeesh all the time so he knows that matchup. Its difficult.

Falcon definetly has the upperhand but i wouldn't necessarily say its in his favor.

 

[Bob Money]

I'm going to disagree with the way HBK played that match up. even though he's an awesome marth and all. and def better than everyone cept m2k. and cact(when he played Marth) He wasn;t playing stingy enough. Too many Aerials to space. He only used like 5 jabs that whole Grand finals and maybe 2-3 forward Bs . When hax was platform camping he should have stayed in the middle of stage then hit hax as he was move to a platform. Short hop up air hits the top platform with marth and he also keeps wave dashing back when hax 's back is facing the ledge. Those are just some critiques I saw in the matches. Also Marths need to start doing the "Cactuar" doing a move then just standing front of someone shielding. Cactuar has the best Shield pressure out of any marth i've seen. Also I've played Scar and SS in tourny with a W. so I think i know the match up kinda well. but Hax may be better than those guys vs Marth. Either way I'd like to play Hax sometime.

I can;t find hax vs Hbk winners finals, anyone got a link? thanks
I wish m2k went marth vs falcons

 

[Niko45]

Alas, WF was not recorded tho I was fortunate enough to witness the last 2 matches of it. HBK even won on KJ64.

It's certainly winnable but I just feel like a falcon that punishes that hard is going to beat you before you beat him, in a sense. Also I don't mean to belittle SS or Darkrain at all I think they are perfectly good against Marth I just find Hax to be particularly efficient at that specific matchup.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Never seen Vro, but smeesh is a one of the respectable falcons in the midwest.

If dart has beaten smeesh thats a job well done. I play with smeesh all the time so he knows that matchup. Its difficult.

Falcon definetly has the upperhand but i wouldn't necessarily say its in his favor.

Yeah smeesh is really good, he beat me in the winner bracket at SMYM. I wanted to play him at POE but didnt get a chance.

Vro is mad underrated because he chokes at big tournaments.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

i think the first stock of this game shows how the match-up goes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMdSihQSYbs

if falcon is just as patient as marth, marth will have a hell of a time getting a hit. Falcon can run circles around marth on the platforms, and marth can't get a hit without having to commit to something. Being forced to commit leaves marth open to all sorts of shield and CC traps.

From my experience, the best way to beat that style is to attempt to trap them as bob said. You definitely can if you get a grab or can make them tech. The biggest edge that falcon has is that he combos marth pretty much from 0% while marth gets CC'd for a while. I think the match-up is definitely playable and winnable, but also definitely in falcon's favor.

 

[KirbyKaze]

No Sveet you're wrong, he was stupid, you're stupid, Marth is stupid.

 

[Cactuar]

Haha. Ya I miss my old Marth.

Marth vs Falcon is all about controlling space. You want to pressure Falcon into areas where he lacks mobility, then take advantage of that by either grabbing him with the intent to KNOCK HIM OFF THE STAGE or using your sword for sword-like things. Let me emphasize that whole "GRAB HIM TO KNOCK HIM OFF" thing. Don't **** around with Falcon when you get the grab. The wide majority of you do not have the reaction speed and player prediction skills to effectively tech chase from fthrow and dthrow for 90%+. Just effing up throw him into stuff that will push him to an edge. If you are already at the edge, throw his *** off. That is the entire matchup.

Falcon goes off stage, he dies. You fight him onstage while giving him room to run back and forth like an *******, you die.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I thought Cactuar said "Marth vs Falcon is all about controlling face." And that would make sense for him because opposing players get lost in Charles's gorgeous eyes and manly haircut.

 

[Cactuar]

It's true. I'm gorgeous. It helps with 99% of my life activities.

 

[KirbyKaze]

What's the 1%?

 

[Tee ay eye]

Photosynthesis

 

[KirbyKaze]

Having such long elegant hair would increase his overall surface area though and assist in photosynthesis.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Cactuar's hair is so elegant it holds chloroplasts?

 

[Niko45]

Anybody got any tips for teaming with a fox? Besides the obvious stuff like grab hold up smash?

 

[Tee ay eye]

Cactuar's hair is so elegant it holds chloroplasts?

Cactuar's hair is so elegant BECAUSE it holds chloroplasts.

 

[Jun.]

what does he do when he's hungry at night?

 

[Dart!]

Anybody got any tips for teaming with a fox? Besides the obvious stuff like grab hold up smash?

you should really let fox be the aggressor here. if hes getting wooped *he's fox...it'll happen* then come in with down tilts and other tilts. try not to hit him offstage because once again he's fox so he can't recover. but if you play it right, the fox should be hustling people with shines and upsmashes and you should pretty much play back up.

 

[Tee ay eye]

what does he do when he's hungry at night?

Human flesh

 

[Niko45]

Yea G$ once told me teams Marth is "Hit and DIP." Seems like Marth/Fox is a good example of that.

 

[Uck]

Can I wavedash out of a shield with Marth consistently using only the R button? Shield with R then wavedash out of shield with R again?

 

[Niko45]

Most def. I do that with L.

 

[Tee ay eye]

Can I wavedash out of a shield with Marth consistently using only the R button? Shield with R then wavedash out of shield with R again?

easily
i do it all the time

what you can do is do an analog shield (pushing R down without clicking the button all the way), and then just clicking the button down when you need to wavedash.

 

[AustinRC]

Marth vs Falcon is easy!!!!! No Marth should ever lose to Falcon!

 

[ArcNatural]

easily
i do it all the time

what you can do is do an analog shield (pushing R down without clicking the button all the way), and then just clicking the button down when you need to wavedash.

You can also, just click it twice. (IE push down all the way to shield, jump and let go press shield again).

Both ways work.