Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[skrach8]

It greatly depends on where the up air hits your said character. If the fox is hitting you more on your right side you SDI to your left and up, and vise versa for the left side. Sorry if i stated the obvious.

Also a quick general question to the public, how often do you guys get the full forward b combo on an opponent? I use the forward b often, so i was just curious as to what other people think about the move.

 

[Dark Sonic]

I get the full combo on Falcon and Ganon a lot at low percents. I pretty much always go Neutral->Neutral->Up->Up/Forward if I'm actually trying to get the hits to link. You can stop after the third hit if they look like they've gone too far behind you and you can just go into some uptilt juggling (Ganon can jump out).

 

[P. O. F.]

Does Cactuar post here anymore guys?

Hi fellow Marth mains!

 

[Cactuar]

Ya he posts once in a while I think.

 

[P. O. F.]

Hi Cactus! Good to know you still post in your own thread. lol.

 

[KAOSTAR]

I find that if you slight DI Fox up throws instead of full DI behind/away, the Fox has a tougher time landing the up air and SDIing it is much easier. Is there any merit to this or am I completely wrong?

I just think that most ppl try to get as far away as they can and smash the other way.

So its just unexpected. and it helps because I think they will overshoot for the uair but still hit you off center if they are good.

So you are in a better position to get away from the second hit.

 

[Niko45]

Yea. I'm still kind of fumbling around in the dark when it comes to SDIing fox up air. I get them now and then, but I don't have a solid feel for why I did or didn't SDI out yet.

 

[Tee ay eye]

what do you guys think about..

doing a short hop and kinda just floating around for a little bit (to bait them or gauge their reaction), and then using your second jump to come down with a fair?

it seems to work REALLY really nicely, but getting punished for it sucks

 

[KAOSTAR]

Its good. but most of the time you need to fade back for the spacing.

you also need to have done **** like fair previously so they think that you may fair them. Otherwise a good player wont feel pressured to react.

you can do **** like jump at them double jump back and WDLND forward or backwards as well

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

what do you guys think about..

doing a short hop and kinda just floating around for a little bit (to bait them or gauge their reaction), and then using your second jump to come down with a fair?

it seems to work REALLY really nicely, but getting punished for it sucks

Its very good, especially against Fox. I'd fastfall both jumps though; its much easier to get punished by just floating around.

Look at :15 and 1:41 to see what I mean

 

[Tee ay eye]

yeah

i started doing it yesterday vs forward's fox

but he caught on and hit me with a FJ bair
and it ended in me getting *****

 

[Niko45]

You can just not fastfall your short hop fair to bait a sidestep sometimes. I really wouldn't be DJing tho there's no real gain.

 

[Dobs1007]

Cactuar If I'm visiting a friend at PSU and don't have money for Pizza what would you suggest I do

 

[KAOSTAR]

You can just not fastfall your short hop fair to bait a sidestep sometimes. I really wouldn't be DJing tho there's no real gain.

Its most effective as a retreat. like maybe your spacing on the fair was bad and so you dont attack and dj back instead

 

[Cactuar]

Cactuar If I'm visiting a friend at PSU and don't have money for Pizza what would you suggest I do

Lol. Get drunk. You won't have to find pizza, the pizza will find you.

 

[Niko45]

Its most effective as a retreat. like maybe your spacing on the fair was bad and so you dont attack and dj back instead

Non-tip fair spacing = tip late up air spacing. I just do that in those spots.

 

[Dobs1007]

Lol. Get drunk. You won't have to find pizza, the pizza will find you.

Haha I'll remember that My roommate tested it out and said it works out surprisingly well.

 

[Just Sexed]

Non-tip fair spacing = tip late up air spacing. I just do that in those spots.

Yo I was definitely liking your uair tipper combos vs fox at no johns gunna steal that from you next time we play.

I might start using falco vs spacies now and marth for dittos and peach etc.

 

[Niko45]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bLyXtHfh6w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arR6_k8jmy4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyRjlaseRro&feature=related

Really need help with the doc matchup if anyone could shed some light. Particularly edgeguarding and generally what I'm doing right and wrong.

 

[Kaffei]

How do I fight Sheik

 

[Teczer0]

DD camp in her face.

If she's in the air prepare to hold down and grab.

Keep her in the air as much as you can.

And when you knock her off-stage grab edge force her to up-b onto the stage and then waveland into fsmash or something else if you're feeling creative.

 

[iamthemicrowave]

when sheik is gonna up b onto the stage, ledgehop nair is really good and hits her back off if you do it right. It wont work if shes goes for a platform tho.

 

[Wschl]

Guys i need some help for Marth dittos. Normally im maining Marth, but im forced to counterpick Shiek cuz im rly bad in this matchup =/. What things to look out for?
im trying to : crouch cancel much, since many marth players still approach with Fair in dittos ( ill grab or Fsmash after). I try to approach with Dash Attack, dtilt or grab. Still, im just gettin grabbed and gimped so often by stupid tippers. Any advice on how to DI his Throws at which % ?
Also note that im from Germany, so the version im using is PAL.

 

[Dart]

DI down and away so you can buffer spotdodges or just DI down and away and wavedash back dtilt or something

 

[Dobs1007]

Guys i need some help for Marth dittos. Normally im maining Marth, but im forced to counterpick Shiek cuz im rly bad in this matchup =/. What things to look out for?
im trying to : crouch cancel much, since many marth players still approach with Fair in dittos ( ill grab or Fsmash after). I try to approach with Dash Attack, dtilt or grab. Still, im just gettin grabbed and gimped so often by stupid tippers. Any advice on how to DI his Throws at which % ?
Also note that im from Germany, so the version im using is PAL.

Grab game is a big part of Marth dittos...

 

[KAOSTAR]

Can anyone explain why you seem to be able to get like a grab Fthrow and then 1 regrab if they DI away.

but no more than that on the regular.

I just never understood why you just get 2 most of the time.

(Marth Dittos)

 

[Teczer0]

The best thing to do is just accept it haha.

I think m2k said that its not technically a guaranteed regrab. But its very difficult to react to it at 0%. And obviously progressively easier the more damage you gain.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Lol

*Accepted*

 

[Dart]

if you grab...pummel once regrab and mix up those into a trixy chaingrab mixup maybe

 

[Pi]

does pivot fsmash make the fsmash -more- possible out of dthrow?
or what are some uses for pivot smashes
i'm liking the move right now and want to encourage my friend to use it

 

[KAOSTAR]

You can get a little bit closer with the fastest possibly way to Fsmash.

basically, you cant fsmash until dash animation is done, and marths dash is long.

WD is slower than just a dash..

so dash, dash the other way(as if you were dash dancing.) but right as you turn around fsmash, aka the pivot. Just getting a bit closer with marths fast *** dash and still being able to fsmash right away.

 

[ArcNatural]

does pivot fsmash make the fsmash -more- possible out of dthrow?
or what are some uses for pivot smashes
i'm liking the move right now and want to encourage my friend to use it

Main uses I've used for pivot fsmash are:

1. Fthrow dash pivot Fsmash (Easiest application imo)

2. Immediate spacing Fsmash (harder to be good with decent for laggy recoveries or moves).

3. Late shffl fair/nair dash away pivot fsmash. This is akin to Falco shine nair di away to fsmash. It works just as good but it's much harder to apply since you need to pivot smash in the same direction as the dash. Which to me makes it a tiny bit awkward with the c-stick (easy with A though). It's pretty good when you tipper fair to dash away tipper fsmash, awkward shield stun can make them mess up pretty easily. This is my favorite use of it heh.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Lol, I always hold A and charge

like I just push it hard like Im making it more powerful, and charge and miss lol.

Those epic hard button presses=****, C stick all day haha

 

[Staco]

yeah

i started doing it yesterday vs forward's fox

but he caught on and hit me with a FJ bair
and it ended in me getting *****

if U are doing it a lot it gets predictable and ur enemy will punish it

watch ice, he just does it really rarely


pivot fsmash is also good against shiek to egdeguard her after she up bs and ur getting up from the ledge

 

[Tee ay eye]

what's the most effective way of punishing roll-> jab/ftilt/dsmash from Peach and Sheik (all from sheik, jab/dsmash from Peach) when you're pressuring them in a corner, and they just roll behind you and dsmash?

pressuring method = dash dances and spaced aerials

would it be best to just do dashdance so you can catch their roll with a grab? that seems most effective to me, but sometimes i miss the obvious things

or a shffled nair so that the back of it hits where they can roll

also, what do you do vs sheiks that don't approach?

pressure them, bait them, or wait them? (pressuring and baiting can be one in the same sometimes)

what i mean is like, you'll try to dash dance and use safe aerials, empty shorthops, etc to bait them, and all they do is throw needles in your face and ignore your skill. in my experience, jumping over the needles results in getting ***** (then again, i might have been timing or spacing like a noob), and running into the needles isn't exactly efficient.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Needles aren't anything to fret over. You can get around them with wavedash out of shield antics.

I find that if you're smart about it, you can approach Sheik pretty well. Dtilts, jabs, dash dancing, well spaced fairs, nairs, and uairs. Be one step ahead of her. Utilt beats her SH fair nonsense pretty well, as does fsmash. You can approach with those moves if you know she'll jump. It's good to get in her face and pressure her. Run up -> wavedash in place, gauge her response. Make her think she's reacting to you but just be patient. Grab her rolls, pivot fsmash her fairs, uair her double jumps, etc.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

If they roll behind you and you haven't committed to an attack you can dair->combo them. Thats what i usually do because sheik's roll is stupidly hard to grab before the dsmash comes.

 

[Niko45]

Assuming you are starting a stock at 0 you really want to grab sheik. I think a lot of Marths approach sheik with fair too much and when its obvious she just CCs or anticipates and dash attacks underneath you. Even if landing fairs you want to control how you build damage on her since she becomes a pain in the *** to kill at 80%+ so grabbing is the best way to do this.

In my opinion TAI you pretty much laid out what you need to do. Bait with safe aerials, DDing, you can occasionally come at her with dtilt and stuff. As far as the punishing roll thing, I think you are right to dash away. Fair her shield then do a full dash away and wait. If she rolls you pivot and grab just fine, if not, you're safe so oh well reset. If you're spamming aerials, even spaced aerials on her shield she will find a way to hit you for that. Fair -> dtilt is also good for pressuring shield.

If you're concerned about needles, first thing is don't let them get to you. Unless you're eating charged needles all day these are very similar to fox or falco's lasers in that you can't let them pressure you into doing something bad. Try approaching with shield to punish a needle-happy sheik, similar to the way you approach a falco's laser.

 

[Tee ay eye]

what are the real odds for sheik vs marth?

this is assuming the sheik knows how to play defensively and doesn't run into your hands easily

the numbers in the matchup OP seem pretty dated

 

[JBM falcon08]

Cactus said 35/65 against a defensive sheik, but the matchup is closer if sheik actually approaches. If sheik approaches its more or less 45/55 sheik.

I think that is overrated personally. Ken did so well in that matchup there is no way that its that bad.