Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[JBM falcon08]

Obviously chainthrowing is the right idea to do, but having some fun with Usmash isn't too bad.


Uthrow to Dthrow fsmash is too good though.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Lately after watching some videos of M2K's marth, I've been wondering if you can pivot grab in melee like you can in brawl? I see a lot of M2K running forward then immediately grabbing in the opposite direction, without dash dancing, however. Second question is, when performing an OoS attack, such as Dair OoS, is it advised to just jump while holding the L or R button or let go of the L or R button before jumping and doing the attack?

Either, when you let go there is a few frames where you still have the shield up so you jump during that anyway. If you hold it tho u waste no time switching from shield to aerial and should be a tad faster because you can do two steps at once

 

[S.D]

CACTUS - How to beat Peach?

I keep getting close to the best Peach in our region (CAOTIC) but continue to let peach inside at critical junctions.

My question is - should I be constantly approaching Peach and trying to be the aggressor in the match, or should I keep mid range spacing and keep her away with fairs, nairs, jabs, ftilts etc? It seems when I stay mid range he finds a lot of little openings to hit with annoying things like dash attack.

Help please <3

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

i say mid range. work on your spacing a little if he is getting you with stuff that he shouldn't (like rush in dash attack). if he tries to pull a turnip, you better punish. turnip approaches are pretty good on marth.

 

[AustinRC]

There is a range where you are just out of dash attack and you are able to punish if she pulls a turnip. If you can keep in this range then you are set the player usually will try and do something dumb. Its unfair how well marth can juggle peach just up throw into ****. Or at low percent fthrow into dash attack into uptilt for decent %. Just be patient once the peach messes up grab her and you can usually get around 60% with a single grab just stay under her and keep her in the air. But keep in mind that distance, if she gets a turnip then it can get difficult.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

what moves are good for shield pressure other than dtilt?

 

[Strong Badam]

i say you're all crazy and upb is the only move i need to use w/ marth

 

[Tee ay eye]

In Marth v Fox:

When the Fox is waiting for you to approach so he can swallow your approach with a nair, what can you do if you know he will try this?

So far, I've kinda come up with baiting them with an aerial or an empty dash/SH.

Would there be any way to outrange their approach with an earlier fair or an SHFFL nair or something? I tried doing "normal" SHFFL fairs, but they hit me before it comes out.

p.s.

If they to space a nair/grab to make up for your DD, what can you do to stop that? WD back and jab/fsmash? I feel really awkward trying to do an aerial out of that.

 

[Europhoria]

Run at him and up your shield, then punish the n-air shine garbage. If they're bad you could just CC the n-air and profit. If you CC a late n-air, you can at least buffer roll I guess ... but hope they're not Cactuar and so they'll do n-airs at the top of their jump. You could also guess the n-air well in advance and beat it with 1 of your own moves but >_> you'd have to start to your move a lot earlier then the fox

Alternatively you could just continue to dash dance camp moving closer slowly and then pivot grab.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

if they can't read you, they can't hit you

 

[Europhoria]

If you're finding your late f-air always fails you, just do n-air I guess because it'll be faster, or f-smash really early (usually bad) to slow the game down. Maybe do an early f-air then waveland into more camping lol If your f-air or n-air falls short you could jab or something as well. I'd still say just shield the move and then punish though

 

[Tee ay eye]

****, i forgot I had a shield

 

[KAOSTAR]

just **** and profit


if they nair at you while you are DD then you can just turn around and shield and grab them as they land infront of you(would have been behind but you turned around)

isnt something important like lunch but its a good snack

 

[Europhoria]

Cactuar what do I do if Kirbykaze approaches me with warm honey?

 

[Dark Sonic]

A nice little "approach" I like to do is shorthop->wavelandback->uptilt. Stops that nair in it's tracks

 

[Cactuar]

Utilt is too laggy. >.>

 

[Stratford]

Cactuar, when do you use ledgehop uair to get back on stage?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Cactuar what do I do if Kirbykaze approaches me with warm honey?

You shouldn't fear for yourself because I have that honey reserved for someone else.

Fearing for the "someone else" is perfectly acceptable, however.

Hi Cactuar, nice thread you got here.

 

[Cactuar]

Cactuar, when do you use ledgehop uair to get back on stage?

If they do something stupid and laggy. Most of the time, I just ledge wd onto the stage.


@KirbyKaze: Am... I... the other person...?

 

[KAOSTAR]

bring some biscuits ***** lol

 

[I.B]

Kirbykaze and Cactus have a wasian bond

 

[KirbyKaze]

@KirbyKaze: Am... I... the other person...?

Indeed.

^.^

 

[AlcyoNite]

stratford i dont appreciate u taking my avatar...

Cactus, do u play the marth vs sheik matchup? m2k doesnt, so i was wondering if it was worth getting worked up about having to work so hard against sheiks of inferior skill. I typically sheik ditto, but i wasnt sure about if the marth vs sheik matchup was legitimately playable

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qna80MbcAAc&feature=related

At about 2:46 in this video, M2K grabs the ledge quickly after he wavedashes onto it. Usually when I do it, I float there for a sec before I grab it, and I see most marth's grabbing it quicker. How is this done? And also, I've seen lightshield ledge grabbing, for instance, PC was falco and waited at the edge with a light shield and immediately grabbed the ledge once his shield was hit, does this require a certain angle or something?

 

[Dynamism?]

Banjo dude

That's a standard ledge-wavelanding thing that people seem to have trouble with.
Remember the physics of it. If you press DOWN and JUMP as quickly as you can one after the other, you'll begin your DJ at the highest point, so you'll 'float' less before you're able to waveland without SDing or something. Pretty much just general techskill training hardcore killing yourself over and over until you can do it is your best bet.

Light shield has less traction so you'll slide off and grab it. Ever seen someone land on a platform and light shield to take a hit and slide off to safety? Same concept, with a ledge.

Euphoria dude
If you wiff a nair/fair short of them (as you said last page), is a pivot-ftilt (dashing away when landing) a viable option? I've seen it like...TWICE...EVER. Once by GMoney at Genesis and once by M2K when he was in WA and both times it was like FREAKIN ART.

I've watched for other marths doing it and similar situations and a lot of the time it looks like it could be a very underused but highly effective tool. Just an observation. Cactuar, thoughts maybe? I donno. :\

 

[Europhoria]

F-tilt? Uhhh you could proabbly F-smash at the same range for better results or pivot grab if they're close. I remember Cactuar saying once anytime you pivot into f-smash or forward b you could have just grabbed. I like Pivot n-air. I feel better covered

If you whiff and didn't mean to as a baiting thing, they'll probably be all over you, I just try to get my spacing if they're going for grabs or shield so I don't get killed for the whiff

 

[Dynamism?]

If your f-air or n-air falls short you could jab or something as well.

I was refering to this.

pivot-ftilt falling under the 'something as well' part.

Often they could be too dangerously close (or not in a laggy sort of state) for a fsmash to be the most effecient. And if they spacing their own attack to properly hit you where you land with something like a jab or bair, grab is not always ranged enough to punish them back.

Nair is covering yeah...

Ftilt is also quick, ranged and has little lag.

Covers like a dtilt on the ground too, but above the head too lol

Purposefully doable?

 

[Europhoria]

I think f-tilt is slow. I would rather just l-cancel and move, maybe run through them so they over shoot their grab, run away from the grab, run away and if you have space pivot n-air. You could just land and grab/shield as they run at you if you feel the jab won't keep them out. Landing and buffering your shield is probably your best option if they're in the air (IMO)

I think Cactuar likes pivot d-tilt but I fail at that. I feel n-air protects me better against an aerial and grab at once. If I was facing Peach or Samus (also probably some others) d-tilt would be the optimal pivot move though I guess.

 

[BananaTrooper]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qna80MbcAAc&feature=related

At about 2:46 in this video, M2K grabs the ledge quickly after he wavedashes onto it. Usually when I do it, I float there for a sec before I grab it, and I see most marth's grabbing it quicker. How is this done? And also, I've seen lightshield ledge grabbing, for instance, PC was falco and waited at the edge with a light shield and immediately grabbed the ledge once his shield was hit, does this require a certain angle or something?

fast fall after the wavedash for q1

I think for light shield hogging you hold towards away from the stage during shield.

 

[KAOSTAR]

I think ftilt is covering enough but not by itself. You have to be prepared to use something after it based on how they tried to punish.

Dtilt or retreating fair or nair should keep you from getting *****. if they try to grab aerial or running upsmash you should be able to protect yourself.

 

[Europhoria]

I think ftilt is covering enough but not by itself. You have to be prepared to use something after it based on how they tried to punish.

Dtilt or retreating fair or nair should keep you from getting *****. if they try to grab aerial or running upsmash you should be able to protect yourself.

Take this with a grain of salt...

There are lots of options for these scenarios, but I wanna stress something. I don't like to encourage Marths to take on a "run away from everything" mentality. Unfortunately most people's answer to a problem is usually "wait it out" or "just dash dance until you see an opening" or "do retreating f-air until you can get a grab" or some other crap. Then you become like M2K and can't win unless you get 4 kills sub 20% from edge camping lol. Don't lose your ability to fight on stage, approach and make reads. You have other options besides retreating f-air to dash dance or edge camp in every scenario.

But this doesn't mean ignore your defensive options of course

 

[JFox]

Message to Cactuar:

I'm sick of you and your fanboys. Quit being good and not winning when it counts. Get some motivation to step it up, ROM2 and Pound 4 are right around the corner. Put in the effort to ****in step up your game *****, east coast needs all our heavy hitters at their best these next coming months. 2nd aint worth ****.

things are about to get serious kiddies

 

[Cactuar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qna80MbcAAc&feature=related

At about 2:46 in this video, M2K grabs the ledge quickly after he wavedashes onto it. Usually when I do it, I float there for a sec before I grab it, and I see most marth's grabbing it quicker. How is this done? And also, I've seen lightshield ledge grabbing, for instance, PC was falco and waited at the edge with a light shield and immediately grabbed the ledge once his shield was hit, does this require a certain angle or something?

After you are in the air after wavedashing off the stage, you fast fall.

The lightshield edgehog with heavy characters, you just hold full left or right off the stage. Don't angle the shield down and out or anything, just straight out.


@JFox: Way to post that in like 3 different threads. lol.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Take this with a grain of salt...

There are lots of options for these scenarios, but I wanna stress something. I don't like to encourage Marths to take on a "run away from everything" mentality. Unfortunately most people's answer to a problem is usually "wait it out" or "just dash dance until you see an opening" or "do retreating f-air until you can get a grab" or some other crap. Then you become like M2K and can't win unless you get 4 kills sub 20% from edge camping lol. Don't lose your ability to fight on stage, approach and make reads. You have other options besides retreating f-air to dash dance or edge camp in every scenario.

But this doesn't mean ignore your defensive options of course

No I agree, I find much appeal in being uber aggressive and seeing them panic as I tech chase the **** outta ppl. I guess I was just giving my opinion on that scenario.

You do have to know how to play on the stage first, then off the stage, and from the edge.

For the record tho, I think ppl would kill to be like m2k. He has soo much control over his marth and its not like hes running around gettin 4 stocked. He lost a few recently but not like he still hasnt been in finals losers winners grands etc.

 

[Dynamism?]

M2K would be amazing if it was illegal for him to gimp because he's soooo good at straight up fighting...
But he's amazing because he doesn't have to when he can kill you at 0% half the time anyway. :D

A pivot ftilt has good range all around in the direction the person is if you aerial/dtilt after dash or whatever. It might have more lag than a nair (etc) but if you're gonna hit with it and they have enough % to fly to the edge of the stage, that doesn't matter so much when a pivot nair will POSSIBLY miss but keep you safe.

 

[JBM falcon08]

Cactuar what is your mindset when playing Marth?

Basically what are you thinking about when you play smash. How do you approach the game that makes you one of the best players.

 

[Cactuar]

I watch my opponent. I think about what they are doing and what they will do next. I cover as many options as possible, covering them in a statistically beneficial order.

 

[Teczer0]

Cactus - Can you go to SPOC and **** my marth for few several hours?

Or Fox ditto me. Either is fine with me

 

[Cactuar]

Haha, sure.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

i second jfox.

stop sandbagging and going through the motions when u get bored. if u REALLY tried, u can EASILY **** mango and other WC ******* up while tying ur shoes and standing behind their shield.