These are the %s you don't have to move to do CGs with Marth vs Fox
0-16 Forward DI (sometimes 16 will miss though, but I think usually you will get them)
0-20 no DI (sometimes you will get them at 20 or 21 or so but the soonest you can miss is 20)
0-28 back DI
for up tilt vs Fox without needing to move
0-35 Forward DI (sometimes you will miss at 35 though, I've even had phantom hit bull**** before, but after 35 you need to walk forward no matter what. I think walk forward up tilt works to like 50 something?)
no DI the lowest you can up throw up tilt to knock them UP is like 23 I think that's unrelated though kinda, although honestly I usually do it at about 27/28+ (by the way vs Fox I usually do reverse up tilt because it seems better and it's harder to DI out of assuming they don't DI because you can still dash grab them even if they DI it, while if you did normal up tilt after not DIing up throw all the Fox has to do is DI behind Marth and he can land and tech before Marth can grab him)
0-50 back DI
for Falco
0-15??? (I know it's around like 13-16 or something idk, it's actually the same or less than Fox) Forward DI
0-25 no DI
0-31 back DI
for up tilt vs Falco
0-42 Forward DI
not sure for the no DI thing (unrelated thing see the Fox note above) I think it's like 30 something + but again this isn't exactly related to the "don't need to move" thing but more like a "don't need to move until it knocks them over on the ground instead of just completely missing" type of thing
0-54 back DI
up throw tipper F smash works on Fox at like low mid 40s + IIRC, and lasts up to as long as like 80% or so maybe even 90 if you don't DI. The easiest average % you are looking for vs Fox is 60%, although it works before and after that by about 15/20% obviously. Up throw take a baby step forward and then if they don't DI you reverse tipper F smash, then C stick if they decide to DI the up throw. The more you do this the better you will get at the timing and understanding, I just gave you a basic guideline. Falco is similar but add the %s a little higher by like 5 or 10% prolly closer to 5 (that's just a random guess) and there you have it.
Also you see my vid vs Shiz where I tried to do up throw Fair to Bair to F throw to Dair (that works I tested it on computers but I know a human would DI in the F throw lol, or I could just F smash tipper)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW-di...e=channel_page at 1:02 it begins. Well, I made that up recently but my mistake was wavedashing before the grab - I should have just done a dash grab then F throw dair (or F throw F smash or F Throw down tilt to edge hog then bair).
ANOTHER Mistake at that vid at that same time is after he did the tech roll, I could have gotten him with a dash JC grab behind me before he would be able to shine or dodge, but I suck and got stuck in my turning around animation
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you can't up throw Falco at 0% if he DIs behind you. He will always land. On the flip side if he DIs forward you can get him at 0% with a standing regrab, but it's the opposite for Marth's forward throw. F Throw regrab works if he DIs in but with away DI Falco can escape. Lol it's kind of a guessing game. I usually down throw at 0, or whatever direction the edge is, then down tilt it.
with no DI they can't escape till like 80%+ lol. Probably more. Once they get to like 70% + just do SH uair a few times. At like 90 do up throw (let them DI) then go for Fair + Dair (if they are smart they will not DI the Fair or DI away)
also near the edge down throw to dash-off-stage Dair actually combos at mid/high % if they DI in xD
there's my old post
edit - 5000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
