Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[Bones0]

Marth's plat coverage is fine, but his punishes off of that cover are super weak because you can't tip utilt everywhere on it like you can on the other stages. The only time I prefer low plats are when I want to get a tipper because then you really can just sit still and cover all of their options. lol If you have trouble on the stage, get comfortable L-cancelling and ledge cancelling when you SH onto the low plats. If your opponent is on the plat and you try to play it like other stages, you'll waste the opportunity trying to jump or utilting their shield when they can just aerial OoS and punish you through the plat. Instead do stuff like SH nair onto the plat and drifting away for a ledge cancel, then you fair to catch their OoS movement. Stuff like that is so safe and almost always works because it eats shield super fast when you're just spamming tipper aerials with little to no lag. Also WLing off of plats is way stronger for Marth because he's lower to the ground than if you are on DL trying to WL to the middle with a fair. By the time you get low enough to fair your intentions are usually telegraphed, but on FoD you will get that fair out low to the ground twice as fast. Make sure you get used to checking the plats to see where they are, both in between stocks and any time you have a split second to check, especially before edgeguards. If you notice it's in the ground, make sure you're in the middle or right at the ledge. You can also just grab the ledge because usually if you take the ledge and there's no side plat they just have to land on the stage. The plats move so slowly that it's all about awareness. You'll rarely have a plat come up perfectly timed to mess up something that would have worked if it came up a second sooner or later.

Does anyone know of any posts explaining how the platforms work? I recorded the movements on my own and got some really strange patterns (there were DISTINCT patterns). I'm pretty sure they are based on player locations, but I'm not sure on any details beyond that. If you were able to tell what made them move it might help by allowing you to manipulate them into advantageous heights.

 

[Construct]

It's not that his coverage actually gets worse; it's that it relatively worsens. He can cover the platforms, but so can everyone else now. I'll edit my first post to clear that up. Utilt already easily snags people on all platforms outside of Dreamland. I don't know, I really just don't understand the stage. Haha. Thanks a bunch Bones, I'll to work some of that in. A lot of that sounds cool, and a lot sounds like exactly why I'm bad at the stage.

 

[knightpraetor]

uptilt is godlike. why is it so good? it makes me wonder...recently started using more uptilt and less upair and suddenly i'm running into staling issues. I have to make sure i don't overuse it because it's so good I can hit with it 4-5 times in a row and then combo them with 3-4 more hits into death.

yeah i don't know what i'm supposed to do on the platforms on that stage.. i like to techchase dair on the lowest platform if they are in CC percentage..but mostly i just crouch and uptilt

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Okay, where was that massive thread on stuff to do on your own or was it a post. I cannot find it.

 

[Dr Peepee]

do you mean this?

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14739329&postcount=17539

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I could have sworn Tai made something too about this or there was even a board on it. Then again, it could have been about a different character. Anyway, this is what I was looking for as a starting point for some ideas.

Also, http://hurricanesandython.com/ for a charity speedrun marathon until Tuesday.

 

[Tee ay eye]

i don't remember making such a thread, but i know exactly what you're talking about. i'm on the hunt! (it's currently 1:52)

edit: it's 1:56 and i give up

 

[Swann]

Okay, where was that massive thread on stuff to do on your own or was it a post. I cannot find it.

Maybe this?
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=321354
It's not massive but there's some pretty decent stuff in there.

 

[Winston]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fjRL9-5l8w#t=9m20s

uair OOS vs. delayed aerial pressure... I like it.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Yeah I do Uair OOS vs delayed shield pressure and that double shine waveland stuff. It's nice.

also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09Rkb55Kt74&list=UU1OoIWMRWyKRjH32i36AfXg&index=6&feature=plpp_video

For more Marth stuff =)

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Yeah I do Uair OOS vs delayed shield pressure and that double shine waveland stuff. It's nice.

also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09Rkb55Kt74&list=UU1OoIWMRWyKRjH32i36AfXg&index=6&feature=plpp_video

For more Marth stuff =)

Lets see, jab x5 (on shield) -> suicide Dair on last stock lol

 

[Dr Peepee]

Yo Falcos never see that one coming LOL 75% serious

Edit: I maintain that jab is good vs falco

 

[Bones0]

Can one simply dial-a-jab-combo?

 

[Dr Peepee]

nothing is guaranteed!

so maybe

 

[.Chipmunk.]

Can one simply dial-a-jab-combo?

nothing is guaranteed!

so maybe

by that he means no

 

[Tee ay eye]

jab is an amazing move

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Can one simply dial-a-jab-combo?

"Shove,Stick,Right-Press,The,B,Button-*uck,I,A,Spacie

 

[Aber]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fjRL9-5l8w#t=9m20s

uair OOS vs. delayed aerial pressure... I like it.

Super quick U air OoS....claw grip?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Nope just standard spazzing LOL

 

[Bones0]

You don't need to claw to uair OoS...

 

[Aber]

You don't need to claw to uair OoS...

....thanks?

 

[Bones0]

I desire to continue this conversation with you so I have an excuse to stare at your avatar.

 

[strawhats]

Super quick U air OoS....claw grip?

I almost **** myself when I saw that.

 

[Construct]

Tai had a cool post over in the falcon forums explaining how to do super quick u-airs, you short hop with x/y and hold up on the left stick then press Z. It's been helpful for me.

 

[S l o X]

marth is super good vs spacies


but i dont know when fox/falco are able to get out of chain grabs and that matters a lot

so someone tell me

 

[Tee ay eye]

Tai had a cool post over in the falcon forums explaining how to do super quick u-airs, you short hop with x/y and hold up on the left stick then press Z. It's been helpful for me.

although that is how i do quick uairs, i shield with R, so i wouldnt be able to do it out of shield

i have pretty fast fingers, though, so i could probably do good uairs out of shield on my own though

 

[Bones0]

I just hold L or R, press Y, then up+A. Pretty controversial way of doing it, I know, but what can I say? I love using obscure input configurations.

marth is super good vs spacies


but i dont know when fox/falco are able to get out of chain grabs and that matters a lot

so someone tell me

They can't get out of CGs. That's kinda the point. ;P

Just practice vs. level 4 comps on FD. They mix up DI often enough that you have to actually react. Practice pivoting when they reach teen %s, and don't pummel at low %s. It's an awful habit I see in a lot of Marths. Learn the utilt differences between Fox and Falco. Whether or not you have to turn around before it varies depending on the spacie. It's weird. If they don't DI, you can uthrow fsmash Falco at 85% (<-- % after throw damage). I forget Fox's, but you can check in Training Mode.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I do not think they fully DI away at any point either. Between lv1-3 I can get a standing CG and regrab until 30% even if they DI away. Once a thrown is made at 30%, then I have to start moving. Although, I have seen people tell me you can only get a standing CG upto 23% or 26%.

 

[Meneks]

Tai had a cool post over in the falcon forums explaining how to do super quick u-airs, you short hop with x/y and hold up on the left stick then press Z. It's been helpful for me.

Hm, I still don't understand how this would necessarily be faster?

Couldn't I just do the same thing by pressing A?

 

[Tee ay eye]

Hm, I still don't understand how this would necessarily be faster?

Couldn't I just do the same thing by pressing A?

since you're using your thumb for X/Y and your index finger for Z, you can hit them in quick succession, meaning you don't have to allow time for your thumb to travel from X/Y to A

 

[knightpraetor]

so basically if your finger was already on A it provides no advantage..i really like Z though cause I claw and i want to avoid having my finger on A in 90% of situations

finally got around to watching pp's marth vs mango's falco...so much damage from free laser pins...just saying..for all the talk about ways of dealing with lasers it sure doesn't show up in your matches PP

 

[Dr Peepee]

it sure doesn't show up in my matches that are online

I agree

 

[Tee ay eye]

so basically if your finger was already on A it provides no advantage..i really like Z though cause I claw and i want to avoid having my finger on A in 90% of situations

finally got around to watching pp's marth vs mango's falco...so much damage from free laser pins...just saying..for all the talk about ways of dealing with lasers it sure doesn't show up in your matches PP

PP didn't start talking about dealing with lasers until after KoC

 

[knightpraetor]

PP and I have had an ongoing discussion about this for a long while. Just saying, if pp gets totally wrecked by lasers, it doesn't build faith that marth vs falco is as even without powershielding as everyone keeps saying.

and pp has known about absorbing lasers and playing from shield for a while. It's not like he hasn't known the options for dealing. He just struggles despite that

 

[clowsui]

KP it's called "mango shot way more lasers in tourney than in friendlies and PP has an adjustment time too you know"

 

[Divinokage]

I think anyone would struggle if they are in shield in the first place, I can't see it as being good because you are on the defensive or pressured.

 

[Tee ay eye]

http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Jing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmoHtTHQOKU

 

[knightpraetor]

the jing article was cool. it really reminded me of the basic smash concepts

 

[Dr Peepee]

PP and I have had an ongoing discussion about this for a long while. Just saying, if pp gets totally wrecked by lasers, it doesn't build faith that marth vs falco is as even without powershielding as everyone keeps saying.

and pp has known about absorbing lasers and playing from shield for a while. It's not like he hasn't known the options for dealing. He just struggles despite that

Well look at what I did OOS. I moved back at the same timing consistently and did the same action out of it(reshielded). It makes sense that I would lose to lasers with such bad responses OOS.

Now if you wanted to be productive, you would have looked at what I did, seen the trends, and thought of how to improve on it(with or without powershielding). I'd like to think productively here and restate that moving OOS at different timings can throw off Falco's laser spacing, give me the chance to WD again before he can adapt and act, as well as give me the option to move into Falco and attack him/trade with a laser instead of just eat more. That's just the beginning.

And yes, I was also somewhat surprised he actually did laser as much as he said he would. That's just bad on me though and not really relevant to improving Marth's metagame.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Can one simply dial-a-jab-combo?

don't listen to pp

everything combos into everything

this is melee ****er