Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[Bones0]

"The Marth I play against is so good at fairing out of lasers "

stop shooting high lasers and shoot low ones...you should be hitting the marth as he comes down..

the only time you should be forced to use the high one is if you are out of space but there are better ways to deal with that as falco.

don't know why he doesn't just wreck you with dash attack if you're shooting high lasers though.

at least if you are using low lasers and hitting him near the ground he has to time short hops over them. Plus few marths are very aerial based and even those that are...fair and nair don't combo to grab and at low percents don't do much...so you at least have options when you get hit and you make the marth work for it. Dash attack on the other hand is easy to link into grab, uptilt, and other kill setups

if you get good at timing the lasers properly the marth won't fair you..he'll waveland backwards or airdodge as you come in instead to try to reacquire neutral..and every time he fails you will use him for combo fodder

How would he dash attack? I'm talking about when Marth is drifting down from the air. If I shoot a low laser, his fair will hit me before he gets hit by the laser, and if I shoot it high, he takes the laser and hits me after as I rush in for a followup. There are ways to deal with it, like shielding or just comboing into ftilt/utilt before he can get fair out or even CCing, but it's hardly guaranteed.

 

[knightpraetor]

well, i'm not saying the situation should never happen, but there is a reason you rarely see such things in high level matches of marth vs falco...you really shouldn't be firing lasers so close to him that he has the option to get in the air. Any time you are getting hit by such you probably should have been using other moves to stuff him instead of lasers. Not saying that he won't occasionally get you dashing back into a laser..but in that situation as I said he could have just dash attacked you.

Most likely you just aren't thinking about your laser spacing enough and trying to fire them when the marth is too close

 

[Bones0]

I'm talking about when Marth is drifting down from the sky... there's no way he can dash attack in that scenario. I'm not suggesting Marths should just jump into lasers or anything. lol

 

[.Chipmunk.]

I'm talking about when Marth is drifting down from the sky... there's no way he can dash attack in that scenario. I'm not suggesting Marths should just jump into lasers or anything. lol

IDK what you guys are talking about, but aerial dash attack is legit as ****

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

IDK what you guys are talking about, but aerial dash attack is legit as ****

Ground Dash Attack Input:
Shove stick to side and press A at same time.

Aerial Dash Attack Input:
Shove stick to side and press A at same time.

Fair/Bair Input:
Shove stick to the side and press A at same time.

Aerial Dash Attack = Fabir?

 

[Deleted member]

fair dash attack is like....almost not strictly worse than fair grab. and fair grab *****, so you can at least BM someone with the dash attack.

let's try fair upsmash next.

 

[KirbyKaze]

drpeepee f:
i gotta
rub cactus now
see how he plays afterward

 

[Dr Peepee]

You can't get the leg up on me kk!

 

[Cactuar]

Lol. I have magical effects. XD

 

[Deleted member]

Lol. I have magical effects. XD

what are you new?

 

[knightpraetor]

wth are you talking about..i'm saying it's stupid to fire lasers when the marth is close enough that your laser will hit him while he's hanging in front of you...it's not like that range is a place to be firing lasers to begin with

 

[Cactuar]

what are you new?

I wish man. I wish...

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

.it's not like that range is a place to be firing lasers to begin with

Yet some Falco will fire a laser at that range. Some marth won't attack. And laser -> fsmash will ensue and work.

 

[Construct]

How do you guys like to deal with Fox camping a top platform?

And is it possible for someone to explain what "dashdance better" means? I get told this as the answer to like 80% of my problems, but I'm not entirely sure what to make of it 'cause I'm awful, and for a character like Marth who has dashdancing as such an important part of his gameplay, I'd just really like to be able to wrap my head around this. Sorry if I'm asking to be spoon-fed too much, haha

 

[knightpraetor]

usually if someone is telling you to dashdance better it means either:
A. you are being too predictable in terms of the direction of your movement.
B. you are moving too far into your opponent's range or too far from your opponent to apply pressure
or C. you don't react properly to movement from your opponent by predicting their next move properly

 

[MasterShake]

How the **** do you dashdance that's def something I never do. I need to go on like a dd spirit animal journey for like the next 3 months and figure this **** out.

 

[Zhea]

DD spirit animal journey:

1) Do the one player glitch and pick a long flat stage ( I like stadium cause of the lines ).

2 ) Dash dance along the stage. Practice max range dash dances, short range dash dances, and everything in between. Practice transitioning from one type to another. Practice moving to different parts of the stage using dash dancing. Practice until you have full control of your dash dance and can start doing any range of it on the spot and transition to any other range in a dime.

3) Shadow Dance. Pretend their is an enemy fox also dash dancing across from you and practice baiting by constantly adjusting the distance between the tip of his and your dash dance and the size of your dash dance. Keep it random and avoid patterns go from big to small to slowly getting big to medium for awhile, etc just don't fall in to a pattern.

4) Practice short bursts of dash dancing as if you are in front of a prone enemy. Practice pivot f smash, airials and grabs from this. If you don't have someone to practice with, it's fine to use a CPU. They are predictable, but you can use them to get a feel for what variations of your dash dance cover what techs.

5) Remove mindless dash dancing from your game. Have a reason for doing it, think what you want to bait out. This is the fruition of your practice and is the hardest step.

6) ??? I don't know this is as far as I have gotten.

 

[Tee ay eye]

know when to stop dashdancing and stand firm like a rock

unnecessary movement only increases your chances of getting caught out of position

 

[Cactuar]

...

DD

spirit

journey

...

Or you could just think about what the purpose of DDing is, including what each component of DDing does.

 

[AceDudeyeah]

When are crucial times to/not to dash dance?
I think excess DD is a bad habit I still retain from my learning days.
So far, I don't DD when the opponent is prone or supine on a platform above me or sometimes when in front of me, or when keeping my opponent from getting onto the stage after they grabbed the edge.
I do DD as an option when the opponent is in a shield or trying to hit me on their descent back to the stage or they themselves are DDing.

As for the Fox on top of a stage, I look at my past play and realize I preemptively SHFFL Uair from my DD underit. Maybe try standing still below and toss out the SHFFL uair when you see him drop? And if he keeps fake dropping(drop then double-jumping to wavelanding back onto the platform), don't miss an l-cancel or go to utilt as an emergency hitbox when he stops fake dropping?

 

[Dr Peepee]

How do you guys like to deal with Fox camping a top platform?

And is it possible for someone to explain what "dashdance better" means? I get told this as the answer to like 80% of my problems, but I'm not entirely sure what to make of it 'cause I'm awful, and for a character like Marth who has dashdancing as such an important part of his gameplay, I'd just really like to be able to wrap my head around this. Sorry if I'm asking to be spoon-fed too much, haha

Fox on the top plat=bait him into coming down with movement/SHs.
Transition into DJs/FH attacks as a mixup if he's staying up there.

Most people tell you to dash dance better because it keeps you from being attacked. Do longer DDs and just wait for moves sometimes, you'll see good success. Out of that DD you can approach/zone sometimes.

Good DD'ing is far more than that to me. It involves variance with how fast you DD, how far each dash goes, and how close to the opponent you are(among other factors).

Just start with the first thing I said then start messing with DDs. Eventually do a few different ones vs people as you play and observe results. Build off of that.

 

[Phoenix~Lament]

Question here

This should be a simple thing but for some reason I'm having problems with it. Shielding on a platform, receiving a hit that pushes you off and doing an aerial while you fall.

I've developed a habit of varying light shield and full shield depending on how far I want to slide away and such but for some reason quite a lot of the time when I'm pushed off a platform in my shield I tumble (and then when I hit the ground I have to tech).

Does anyone know why?

 

[Bones0]

Question here

This should be a simple thing but for some reason I'm having problems with it. Shielding on a platform, receiving a hit that pushes you off and doing an aerial while you fall.

I've developed a habit of varying light shield and full shield depending on how far I want to slide away and such but for some reason quite a lot of the time when I'm pushed off a platform in my shield I tumble (and then when I hit the ground I have to tech).

Does anyone know why?

If your back is to the edge you will tumble.

 

[MT_]

If you fastball after being pushed off you won't be forced to tech (not sure why but it works; you won't be able to aerial though).

 

[AceDudeyeah]

If you fastball after being pushed off you won't be forced to tech (not sure why but it works; you won't be able to aerial though).

Might be similar to mashing out a tumble the hitstun is over, try tapping left or right instead of down and see if it makes your character upright again

 

[Phoenix~Lament]

Oh didn't know that. Thanks :D

 

[Metal Reeper]

How the **** do you dashdance that's def something I never do. I need to go on like a dd spirit animal journey for like the next 3 months and figure this **** out.

My mindset on dash dancing lately is like....Say im at point A, I wanna dash dance and then put a hitbox on point A (where I started,ended that dash,attack) make sure you space a move there. Like retreating bair or something like that. This is obviously situational. And when someone is dashdancing you, if they are at point A I always picture that they will be 1 dash range behind them, so you want to space an attack at point B. But still have time to react if they dash through you, roll, waveland, whatever.
Hope this helped someone.

 

[Bones0]

If you fastball after being pushed off you won't be forced to tech (not sure why but it works; you won't be able to aerial though).

It works because it takes a certain number of frames to actually go into tumble. To test this, just WD off a platform backwards. On low FoD plats, you will see Marth lean back and start to flip, but the ground just puts him in the regular landing animation because he doesn't get into a full tumble. On higher plats, he flips completely and is considered to be in a state of tumble.

Might be similar to mashing out a tumble the hitstun is over, try tapping left or right instead of down and see if it makes your character upright again

If you are able to wiggle out, then you are able to aerial out, so wiggling to do an aerial right after would just waste a few frames. If you do the test above on a high plat, you will notice that you are only prevented from doing an aerial or wiggling out during the initial flip. Once you are in full tumble, it's just like if you had been usmashed by Fox and were drifting back down to the stage.

 

[odinNJ]

What is Marths best anti air (specifically things like falcons nair)
Roy has te DED, but I was wondering what move is best to deny approaches by falcon

 

[Stylez]

^ It depends on how they're going to / how you think they're going to approach. Uptilt is good most of the time.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Fair stuffs Falcon's approaches pretty reliably (I use this when I get Falcon cornered specifically).

Utilt is good too but kinda laggy if you miss.

Generally you want to DD punish unless you're VERY certain Falcon will approach you/attack at you though. Lagging vs that character for more than a Dtilt is asking for death.

 

[Stylez]

And falcons never approach, so dd punish all day :]

Can marth sh over all of falco's lazers? I don't know the different heights so it's hard for me to test...

 

[Dr Peepee]

they still space with nair some so that's still useful haha

Marth can't SH over Falco's higher laser heights

 

[odinNJ]

Thanks, also, against peach I have found that if you are on the ledge and can catch peach out of her umbrella with an over b, you can double jump dair her pretty consistently

 

[Dr Peepee]

Why wouldn't you just roll?

Is this for when she up-Bs kinda through you?

 

[odinNJ]

I use it when I'm nt sure if her feet will hit the stage or
Not.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Hm that's pretty cool then, I'll play around with it thanks. =)

 

[AceDudeyeah]

What is Marths best anti air (specifically things like falcons nair)
Roy has te DED, but I was wondering what move is best to deny approaches by falcon

I use side-B a lot.
Facing away from Falcon when uptilting can help because Marth leans forward in the uptilt. Much more useful on a shield though.

 

[Metal Reeper]

Marth's nair eat's Falcon alive.
PETA

 

[FrootLoop]

side B -> grab is great because you can do it on reaction to air approaches from most distances